Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

Expand Messages
  • Alex Markin
    Hi Mitchell: Ambient CO2 would not do it. Concentrated CO2 has to be delivered in a controlled fashion to get reliable and timely separation. But the idea then
    Message 1 of 68 , Jul 1, 2011
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Mitchell:
       
      Ambient CO2 would not do it. Concentrated CO2 has to be delivered in a controlled fashion to get reliable and timely separation. But the idea then begs adaptation in an algae operation relying on injected concentrated CO2 geared to producing  isopropanol. A CO2 sidestream could then be used for isopropanol separation. I am not aware of any.
       
      Cheers
      Alex
       
       
       
       
      -------Original Message-------
       
      Date: 7/1/2011 2:47:13 AM
      Subject: RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer
       
       

      I believe that the CO2 would be ambient.  But, I farmed it out as I only had $3,000,000 a year research budget and spent it on more exotic processes.  London Chemical took care of it for me.  I just wanted to know to be sure that I knew what could go wrong.

       

      From: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Markin
      Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:13 PM
      To: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

       

       

      Hi Mitchell:

       

      Please help me understand this. Adding lime to an isopropanol/water mixture would use up water to form Ca(OH)2, which would be converted to CaCO3 by injecting CO2. Is that what your wife was suggesting?  

       

      Cheers

      Alex

       

       

       

       

      -------Original Message-------

       

      Date: 6/30/2011 7:53:57 PM

      Subject: RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

       

       

      I used to use a couple barrels of anhydrous isopropanol a day and I believe that they said that it was membrane produced.  My wife's undergrad degree was Chemical engineering and years ago she suggested that I just crystalize out the water.  I looked up the process and it was just adding lime to create calcium carbonate.  then filter out the calcium carbonate.  Also, it can't be open to air after you dewater it because it will absorb water.

      Mitch

       

      From: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim.richards65
      Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:05 AM
      To: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

       

       

      Graham,

      Do you know anyone who's do this that I could talk to???

      Curbie

      --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Harris" <graham@...> wrote:
      >
      > Curbie,
      >
      > Distillation is not the only way to separate alcohol from water. You could
      > try a semipermeable membrane- I would think that the higher molecular
      > weight of butanol would make it easier to separate this way than ethanol.
      >
      >
      > Graham
      >
      > On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 03:58:55 +1200, jim.richards65
      > <jim.richards65@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Bruce,
      > >
      > > Do you suppose that Dupont uses a genetically modified yeast or Weizmann
      > > organism in order to produce butanol???
      > >
      > > Butanol 105,000 btu gallon
      > > Ethanol 76,000 btu gallon
      > > 76/105 = 72% by volume
      > >
      > > Butanol average fermentation concentration 3% (Weizmann organism)
      > > Ethanol average fermentation concentration 10% (distillers yeast)
      > >
      > > IIRC distillation energy favors a 10% ethanol feed by ~2.4 times per
      > > mol, 2.4 * 72% =1.73 (to compensate for btu per gallon difference), 1.73
      > > time more energy to maintain centralized distribution pipelines?.
      > >
      > > Methane;1000(mcf)*900(btu/cf)=900,000(btu) / 100,000(therm) =9 therms or
      > > @ $4.00 / 9 =$.45 per therm, and I pay $1.47 per therm after
      > > distribution and taxes.
      > >
      > > This whole thing reminds me of IBM's attempt to maintain centralized
      > > processing instead of embracing de-centralized networking.
      > >
      > > Curbie
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Carroll Lendrum"
      > > <lendlabs@> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> Curbie,
      > >> We are a Microbiology firm and the Anaerobic Digester can use a whole
      > >> host of organic material to make Methane. At this time we are working
      > >> on B.Braunii Race B. for Bunker oil and Hydrocarbon feed for The
      > >> crackers to make Gasoline or #1 and #2 diesel. We were talking about
      > >> the use of the media from the digestion to grow the B.Braunii on. It
      > >> works well but because other algae can grow at that Ph on the acid side
      > >> wild algae is a real problem.. Much of this was solved when we went to
      > >> the current Wood ash / sea salt solutions.
      > >>
      > >> As we talked about this for the pure use of algae as biomass other algae
      > >> rather then B.Braunii would be perfect. B.Braunii is unusual as you can
      > >> grow it in a fermentation media from milk to cheese production(Whey)..
      > >> Also can grow it on crackdown biomass like switch grass.. I think Dupont
      > >> is way ahead on Butanol as they have made it for war use in WWI and
      > >> WWII.
      > >>
      > >> As far as Butanol goes.. It has more BTU then ethanol and can be shipped
      > >> via pipelines. The main problem with Pipeline quality Methane is the
      > >> price has dropped from $10 mcf to $4
      > >>
      > >> Bruce
      > >> --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "jim.richards65"
      > >> <jim.richards65@> wrote:
      > >> >
      > >> > Bruce,
      > >> >
      > >> > Do I understand you use an anaerobic digester to separate algae oil
      > >> from the rest of the algae bio-mass, OR do you think that idea has
      > >> possibilities?
      > >> >
      > >> > Out of curiosity, why switch grass instead of high carbohydrate algae,
      > >> AND have you run VLE data and heat balance data for both butanol and
      > >> ethanol? What do you see in butanol that I don't?
      > >> >
      > >> > Curbie
      > >> >
      > >> >
      > >> > --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "lendlabs" lendlabs@ wrote:
      > >> > >
      > >> > > Bobby,
      > >> > > ok .. Dairy Waste is better know as Whey.. What is left over after
      > >> then
      > >> > > solids from milk are removed to make cheese.. I have used this best
      > >> in
      > >> > > PBR but the methoid of growing B. Braunii as a fermentation system
      > >> is
      > >> > > being worked on for enzymes etc... We studied both but the liquid
      > >> from
      > >> > > the Digestion's reactors was the primary study. I have seven PBR
      > >> > > running now and four have some amount of Whey (Dairy Waste) as the
      > >> base
      > >> > > of the growth media.
      > >> > > I have also used this as the media for fungal growth looking for
      > >> enzymes
      > >> > > to digest Switch grass or other leaves to make simple sugars for
      > >> Butanol
      > >> > > Production..
      > >> > >
      > >> > > It is hard enough for me to do one thing at a time much less two..
      > >> > > Best Regards,
      > >> > > Bruce
      > >> > >
      > >> > > --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, Bobby Yates Emory <liberty1@>
      > >> > > wrote:
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > Bruce,
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > Just trying to make sure I understood:
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > Are you saying that you did a comparative study on feeding manure
      > >> > > directly
      > >> > > > vs. process the manure through a anaerobic digester? And that you
      > >> > > found the
      > >> > > > algae produced better when feed with the output of the anaerobic
      > >> > > digester
      > >> > > > rather the "fresh" manure?
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > Did I get that right?
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > Bobby
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Bruce Carroll Lendrum
      > >> > > > lendlabs@:
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > > **
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > > Bobby,
      > >> > > > > I had to go back four years to find the data from the Dairy
      > >> waste/
      > >> > > > > methane study that lead to the development of the input system
      > >> for
      > >> > > > > B.Braunii Race B. Oil and Gas.
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > > This is wild.. The digestion of the Waste and production of
      > >> methane
      > >> > > > > improves the output for B.Braunii.. We get all kinds of growth
      > >> and a
      > >> > > > > heavy algae soup ready for solvent / evaputron removal of most
      > >> of
      > >> > > the
      > >> > > > > external oil. The Algae go to Orange in a heart beat. No
      > >> shortage of
      > >> > > > > Nitrates.. The heat kills most of the Air tolerant bacteria and
      > >> the
      > >> > > > > methane producers are all killed with the O2 so add some air if
      > >> you
      > >> > > need
      > >> > > > > to in tank one. The sun will also kill bacteria, esp during the
      > >> high
      > >> > > > > noon.
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > > I can not think of a thing that we needed to add.. As you may
      > >> > > recall,
      > >> > > > > the Wood ash study did a little bit better with added Fe++..
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > > It is all about money and Saudi Arabia is starting to think
      > >> about
      > >> > > the
      > >> > > > > high price of oil causing greater investment in Renewable energy
      > >> esp
      > >> > > > > oil.. Spot on.. Time to do-it.
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > > Just a thought,
      > >> > > > > Bruce
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > > --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, o1bigtenor o1bigtenor@
      > >> > > > > wrote:
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Bobby Yates Emory liberty1@:
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > > D,
      > >> > > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > > Sorry, I did not understand one statement in your post.
      > >> > > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > > Are you saying that making manure tea wastes 65% of the
      > >> > > nutrients?
      > >> > > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > > Or Are you saying that composting wastes 65% of the
      > >> nutrients?
      > >> > > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > > Both really!
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > When you gather the manure you have lost access to the urine
      > >> and a
      > >> > > > > majority
      > >> > > > > > of the nitrogen (plant food major input) is in the urine.
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > When you compost the manure you 'lock' the plant nutrients
      > >> > > available
      > >> > > > > in that
      > >> > > > > > matter so there are few further losses. (There is a small
      > >> amount
      > >> > > of
      > >> > > > > > volatilization in the spreading but its quite small.) Some of
      > >> the
      > >> > > > > nutrients
      > >> > > > > > are in forms that are not that accessible to the plants (algae
      > >> > > > > whatever
      > >> > > > > > plant form you are using) vis a vis nitrites which need to be
      > >> > > > > converted to
      > >> > > > > > nitrates (IIRC).
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > The manure tea enables you to place it more as you want. You
      > >> can
      > >> > > > > foliar feed
      > >> > > > > > plants with a liquid fertilizer - - you can't do that with a
      > >> solid
      > >> > > or
      > >> > > > > dry
      > >> > > > > > fertilizer. That's why the manure tea works better than even
      > >> the
      > >> > > > > compost
      > >> > > > > > over the whole growing season. It enables you to match the
      > >> growth
      > >> > > > > > possibilities of the environment to the availability of
      > >> nutrients
      > >> > > for
      > >> > > > > the
      > >> > > > > > plant. If you have excellent moisture available and good
      > >> amounts
      > >> > > of
      > >> > > > > heat
      > >> > > > > > then it makes sense to foliar feed your plants.
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > Now as the algae are already in water your remaining climatic
      > >> > > input
      > >> > > > > > variables are the amount of sunshine (light) and the heat
      > >> present
      > >> > > > > (cool
      > >> > > > > > temperatures don't usually enhance growth). So to use the
      > >> manure
      > >> > > tea
      > >> > > > > or the
      > >> > > > > > straight manure for algae would be about a moot point in my
      > >> > > opinion
      > >> > > > > but some
      > >> > > > > > very careful studies would need to be done to either prove or
      > >> > > disprove
      > >> > > > > that.
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > The big advantage of compost over manure is that most of your
      > >> > > harmful
      > >> > > > > > pathogens have been destroyed which means that you introduce
      > >> less
      > >> > > > > challenges
      > >> > > > > > in your quest to maximize the response of the algae to the
      > >> > > nutrients
      > >> > > > > > available.
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > > > D
      > >> > > > > >
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > > >
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > --
      > >> > > > Toward freedom,
      > >> > > >
      > >> > > > Bobby Yates Emory
      > >> > > >
      > >> > >
      > >> >
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      > --
      > Best Regards
      >
      > Graham
      > New Zealand - timezone GMT+12
      > Home: +64 9 631 7316
      > Cell: +64 27 275 4396
      >

       

       
    • Alex Markin
      Mitchell, I was talking about separation. It could fit with an algae operation. Algae needs CO2 or equivalent to grow and create lipids, some of which may be
      Message 68 of 68 , Jul 1, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Mitchell, I was talking about separation. It could fit with an algae operation. Algae needs CO2 or equivalent to grow and create lipids, some of which may be amenable to producing isopropanol.  They are looking at CO2 piped in from power stations or boilers where coal or any carbon based fuel is used.  In that case a side stream of CO2 could be used to facilitate separation as we are discussing. Lime (slaked lime or calcium hydroxide) does not precipitate easily.
         
        Cheers
        Alex
         
         
         
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        Date: 7/1/2011 12:18:53 PM
        Subject: RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer
         
         

        The CO2 was not to  produce Isopronol.  Lime's sole purpose was to bind the water and precipitate out calcium hydroxide.   I believe that if it works for isopropanol that it would work with ethanol.   I am not sure on the CO2 issue.

         

        From: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Markin
        Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 10:14 AM
        To: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

         

         

        Hi Mitchell:

         

        Ambient CO2 would not do it. Concentrated CO2 has to be delivered in a controlled fashion to get reliable and timely separation. But the idea then begs adaptation in an algae operation relying on injected concentrated CO2 geared to producing  isopropanol. A CO2 sidestream could then be used for isopropanol separation. I am not aware of any.

         

        Cheers

        Alex

         

         

         

         

        -------Original Message-------

         

        Date: 7/1/2011 2:47:13 AM

        Subject: RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

         

         

        I believe that the CO2 would be ambient.  But, I farmed it out as I only had $3,000,000 a year research budget and spent it on more exotic processes.  London Chemical took care of it for me.  I just wanted to know to be sure that I knew what could go wrong.

         

        From: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Markin
        Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 7:13 PM
        To: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

         

         

        Hi Mitchell:

         

        Please help me understand this. Adding lime to an isopropanol/water mixture would use up water to form Ca(OH)2, which would be converted to CaCO3 by injecting CO2. Is that what your wife was suggesting?  

         

        Cheers

        Alex

         

         

         

         

        -------Original Message-------

         

        Date: 6/30/2011 7:53:57 PM

        Subject: RE: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

         

         

        I used to use a couple barrels of anhydrous isopropanol a day and I believe that they said that it was membrane produced.  My wife's undergrad degree was Chemical engineering and years ago she suggested that I just crystalize out the water.  I looked up the process and it was just adding lime to create calcium carbonate.  then filter out the calcium carbonate.  Also, it can't be open to air after you dewater it because it will absorb water.

        Mitch

         

        From: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jim.richards65
        Sent: Thursday, June 30, 2011 4:05 AM
        To: oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [oil_from_algae] Re: Fertilizer

         

         

        Graham,

        Do you know anyone who's do this that I could talk to???

        Curbie

        --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Harris" <graham@...> wrote:
        >
        > Curbie,
        >
        > Distillation is not the only way to separate alcohol from water. You could
        > try a semipermeable membrane- I would think that the higher molecular
        > weight of butanol would make it easier to separate this way than ethanol.
        >
        >
        > Graham
        >
        > On Thu, 30 Jun 2011 03:58:55 +1200, jim.richards65
        > <jim.richards65@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Bruce,
        > >
        > > Do you suppose that Dupont uses a genetically modified yeast or Weizmann
        > > organism in order to produce butanol???
        > >
        > > Butanol 105,000 btu gallon
        > > Ethanol 76,000 btu gallon
        > > 76/105 = 72% by volume
        > >
        > > Butanol average fermentation concentration 3% (Weizmann organism)
        > > Ethanol average fermentation concentration 10% (distillers yeast)
        > >
        > > IIRC distillation energy favors a 10% ethanol feed by ~2.4 times per
        > > mol, 2.4 * 72% =1.73 (to compensate for btu per gallon difference), 1.73
        > > time more energy to maintain centralized distribution pipelines?.
        > >
        > > Methane;1000(mcf)*900(btu/cf)=900,000(btu) / 100,000(therm) =9 therms or
        > > @ $4.00 / 9 =$.45 per therm, and I pay $1.47 per therm after
        > > distribution and taxes.
        > >
        > > This whole thing reminds me of IBM's attempt to maintain centralized
        > > processing instead of embracing de-centralized networking.
        > >
        > > Curbie
        > >
        > >
        > > --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "Bruce Carroll Lendrum"
        > > <lendlabs@> wrote:
        > >>
        > >> Curbie,
        > >> We are a Microbiology firm and the Anaerobic Digester can use a whole
        > >> host of organic material to make Methane. At this time we are working
        > >> on B.Braunii Race B. for Bunker oil and Hydrocarbon feed for The
        > >> crackers to make Gasoline or #1 and #2 diesel. We were talking about
        > >> the use of the media from the digestion to grow the B.Braunii on. It
        > >> works well but because other algae can grow at that Ph on the acid side
        > >> wild algae is a real problem.. Much of this was solved when we went to
        > >> the current Wood ash / sea salt solutions.
        > >>
        > >> As we talked about this for the pure use of algae as biomass other algae
        > >> rather then B.Braunii would be perfect. B.Braunii is unusual as you can
        > >> grow it in a fermentation media from milk to cheese production(Whey)..
        > >> Also can grow it on crackdown biomass like switch grass.. I think Dupont
        > >> is way ahead on Butanol as they have made it for war use in WWI and
        > >> WWII.
        > >>
        > >> As far as Butanol goes.. It has more BTU then ethanol and can be shipped
        > >> via pipelines. The main problem with Pipeline quality Methane is the
        > >> price has dropped from $10 mcf to $4
        > >>
        > >> Bruce
        > >> --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "jim.richards65"
        > >> <jim.richards65@> wrote:
        > >> >
        > >> > Bruce,
        > >> >
        > >> > Do I understand you use an anaerobic digester to separate algae oil
        > >> from the rest of the algae bio-mass, OR do you think that idea has
        > >> possibilities?
        > >> >
        > >> > Out of curiosity, why switch grass instead of high carbohydrate algae,
        > >> AND have you run VLE data and heat balance data for both butanol and
        > >> ethanol? What do you see in butanol that I don't?
        > >> >
        > >> > Curbie
        > >> >
        > >> >
        > >> > --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, "lendlabs" lendlabs@ wrote:
        > >> > >
        > >> > > Bobby,
        > >> > > ok .. Dairy Waste is better know as Whey.. What is left over after
        > >> then
        > >> > > solids from milk are removed to make cheese.. I have used this best
        > >> in
        > >> > > PBR but the methoid of growing B. Braunii as a fermentation system
        > >> is
        > >> > > being worked on for enzymes etc... We studied both but the liquid
        > >> from
        > >> > > the Digestion's reactors was the primary study. I have seven PBR
        > >> > > running now and four have some amount of Whey (Dairy Waste) as the
        > >> base
        > >> > > of the growth media.
        > >> > > I have also used this as the media for fungal growth looking for
        > >> enzymes
        > >> > > to digest Switch grass or other leaves to make simple sugars for
        > >> Butanol
        > >> > > Production..
        > >> > >
        > >> > > It is hard enough for me to do one thing at a time much less two..
        > >> > > Best Regards,
        > >> > > Bruce
        > >> > >
        > >> > > --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, Bobby Yates Emory <liberty1@>
        > >> > > wrote:
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > Bruce,
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > Just trying to make sure I understood:
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > Are you saying that you did a comparative study on feeding manure
        > >> > > directly
        > >> > > > vs. process the manure through a anaerobic digester? And that you
        > >> > > found the
        > >> > > > algae produced better when feed with the output of the anaerobic
        > >> > > digester
        > >> > > > rather the "fresh" manure?
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > Did I get that right?
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > Bobby
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Bruce Carroll Lendrum
        > >> > > > lendlabs@:
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > > **
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > Bobby,
        > >> > > > > I had to go back four years to find the data from the Dairy
        > >> waste/
        > >> > > > > methane study that lead to the development of the input system
        > >> for
        > >> > > > > B.Braunii Race B. Oil and Gas.
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > This is wild.. The digestion of the Waste and production of
        > >> methane
        > >> > > > > improves the output for B.Braunii.. We get all kinds of growth
        > >> and a
        > >> > > > > heavy algae soup ready for solvent / evaputron removal of most
        > >> of
        > >> > > the
        > >> > > > > external oil. The Algae go to Orange in a heart beat. No
        > >> shortage of
        > >> > > > > Nitrates.. The heat kills most of the Air tolerant bacteria and
        > >> the
        > >> > > > > methane producers are all killed with the O2 so add some air if
        > >> you
        > >> > > need
        > >> > > > > to in tank one. The sun will also kill bacteria, esp during the
        > >> high
        > >> > > > > noon.
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > I can not think of a thing that we needed to add.. As you may
        > >> > > recall,
        > >> > > > > the Wood ash study did a little bit better with added Fe++..
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > It is all about money and Saudi Arabia is starting to think
        > >> about
        > >> > > the
        > >> > > > > high price of oil causing greater investment in Renewable energy
        > >> esp
        > >> > > > > oil.. Spot on.. Time to do-it.
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > Just a thought,
        > >> > > > > Bruce
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > --- In oil_from_algae@yahoogroups.com, o1bigtenor o1bigtenor@
        > >> > > > > wrote:
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 5:57 PM, Bobby Yates Emory liberty1@:
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > > D,
        > >> > > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > > Sorry, I did not understand one statement in your post.
        > >> > > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > > Are you saying that making manure tea wastes 65% of the
        > >> > > nutrients?
        > >> > > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > > Or Are you saying that composting wastes 65% of the
        > >> nutrients?
        > >> > > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > > Both really!
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > When you gather the manure you have lost access to the urine
        > >> and a
        > >> > > > > majority
        > >> > > > > > of the nitrogen (plant food major input) is in the urine.
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > When you compost the manure you 'lock' the plant nutrients
        > >> > > available
        > >> > > > > in that
        > >> > > > > > matter so there are few further losses. (There is a small
        > >> amount
        > >> > > of
        > >> > > > > > volatilization in the spreading but its quite small.) Some of
        > >> the
        > >> > > > > nutrients
        > >> > > > > > are in forms that are not that accessible to the plants (algae
        > >> > > > > whatever
        > >> > > > > > plant form you are using) vis a vis nitrites which need to be
        > >> > > > > converted to
        > >> > > > > > nitrates (IIRC).
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > The manure tea enables you to place it more as you want. You
        > >> can
        > >> > > > > foliar feed
        > >> > > > > > plants with a liquid fertilizer - - you can't do that with a
        > >> solid
        > >> > > or
        > >> > > > > dry
        > >> > > > > > fertilizer. That's why the manure tea works better than even
        > >> the
        > >> > > > > compost
        > >> > > > > > over the whole growing season. It enables you to match the
        > >> growth
        > >> > > > > > possibilities of the environment to the availability of
        > >> nutrients
        > >> > > for
        > >> > > > > the
        > >> > > > > > plant. If you have excellent moisture available and good
        > >> amounts
        > >> > > of
        > >> > > > > heat
        > >> > > > > > then it makes sense to foliar feed your plants.
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > Now as the algae are already in water your remaining climatic
        > >> > > input
        > >> > > > > > variables are the amount of sunshine (light) and the heat
        > >> present
        > >> > > > > (cool
        > >> > > > > > temperatures don't usually enhance growth). So to use the
        > >> manure
        > >> > > tea
        > >> > > > > or the
        > >> > > > > > straight manure for algae would be about a moot point in my
        > >> > > opinion
        > >> > > > > but some
        > >> > > > > > very careful studies would need to be done to either prove or
        > >> > > disprove
        > >> > > > > that.
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > The big advantage of compost over manure is that most of your
        > >> > > harmful
        > >> > > > > > pathogens have been destroyed which means that you introduce
        > >> less
        > >> > > > > challenges
        > >> > > > > > in your quest to maximize the response of the algae to the
        > >> > > nutrients
        > >> > > > > > available.
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > > > D
        > >> > > > > >
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > > >
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > --
        > >> > > > Toward freedom,
        > >> > > >
        > >> > > > Bobby Yates Emory
        > >> > > >
        > >> > >
        > >> >
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Best Regards
        >
        > Graham
        > New Zealand - timezone GMT+12
        > Home: +64 9 631 7316
        > Cell: +64 27 275 4396
        >

         

         

         
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.