Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Networking two MTPAV's, between OS X and OS 9

Expand Messages
  • seamonsters@verizon.net
    Here s another flavor of a question that comes up from time to time, with some curious observations. Does anybody know if there s a step-by-step how to guide
    Message 1 of 11 , Aug 9, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Here's another flavor of a question that comes up from time to time,
      with some curious observations.

      Does anybody know if there's a step-by-step "how to" guide for
      networking two MTPAV's between two machines running OS X and an OS 9
      respectively? The FAQs on both the Motu and Korg sites both still
      pertain mainly to OS 9.

      For a long time, I had successfully networked two G4s running OS 9
      via a serial MTPAV and an MTP II between them. And for a few years
      now I've been successfully patching audio between a G5 (OS X) and a
      G4 (OS 9) (mainly for Spectrafoo). Only recently have I needed to
      pass MIDI; I now have an MTPAV USB (A machine, OS X) networked to the
      serial MTPAV (B Machine, OS 9). My two OS 9-only MIDI applications
      (not programs) are the Korg Oaysis PCI and the Nord Modular. The
      Nord requires OMS.

      Back when I had an A machine that would run OS 9, I could create a
      dummy Oasys device in my FreeMIDI profile, to route to the B Machine,
      where the Oasys presented itself to OMS and/or FreeMIDI as a built-in
      device. Using Clockworks it was simple enough to make the Oasys B
      Machine appear as a MIDI device to Digital Performer on the A
      machine. But now with OS X on the A Machine, I don't see how to
      create a dummy Oasys in AudioMIDI setup. Can this be done?

      Here's what I can do: In Digital Performer on the A machine, I can
      output a MIDI track to "MTPAV, all cables;" then I can mute, say,
      channel 16 output to all MIDI devices except the B Machine Oasys.
      (This leaves all other devices as only 15-part multitimbral, but I
      could live with that).

      Yet that involves a huge degree of voodoo. For instance, Clockworks
      (A machine, OS X) doesn't always see the same routing setup as does
      Clockworks (B machine, OS 9). The OS 9 version is generally the
      accurate one, when they differ; except that the OS 9 version sees
      the order of the MTPAV's reversed: ports 1-8 are seen as 9-16, and
      vice versa. Go figure.

      It's occurred to me that maybe there's a way not to network the two
      MTPAV's, and just connect each to one computer. If I did that, what
      would I lose? And how would it work -- to use the Oasys as a MIDI
      device, could I just run two MIDI cables between the two MPTAV's?

      AudioMidi setup still seems pretty immature compared to either OMS or
      FreeMIDI (at least is OS 10.3.9, which is what I'm using). Why can't
      I create a dummy device to route out through to the Oasys? And it
      doesn't even have a profile for the Nord modular (even OMS has that).
      Will AMS be further developed?

      Maybe that's enough for now...

      Hoagie Hill
      --
      Seamonster Sounds
      310.456.8229
      http://www.seamonstersounds.com
    • Joe F.
      Hi Hoagie, If you look back to May you ll see I posted the exact same question with the exact same setup, sans the Nord. The upshot is that the MOTU network
      Message 2 of 11 , Aug 10, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi Hoagie,

        If you look back to May you'll see I posted the exact same question
        with the exact same setup, sans the Nord.

        The upshot is that the MOTU network port is meant to connect 2
        interfaces to each other, with only one connected to a single Mac.

        When each interface is connected to a separate Mac the MIDI gets
        mangled in some instances. This is why the setups between software
        interfaces on each machine sometimes won't jive.

        You can get a single 16 channel set working from the G5 to the Oasys
        on the G4 via the network ports. In my case I was trying to get
        Unisyn on the G5/MTPAV working with devices connected to the G4/MTP
        II, but the data was distorted.

        The solution is to disconnect the network port connections and
        connect 2 MIDI ports between interfaces. If you want the full 32
        channels for Oasys you'll need to use 2 sets of ports, to get 16 more
        for the Nord use a third.

        On the G5 side you'll create the individual devices that are
        connected to the MIDI ports of the interface, rather than creating
        the "real" setup of a second interface running off those ports. This
        is because Audio/MIDI setup will only treat something as an interface
        if its directly connected to the Mac; otherwise it's a generic device
        with however many ports.

        AMS is actually pretty "mature", however it relies on the drivers
        provided for each device. One thing to remember is that, regardless
        of how it appears in Clockworks, DP, or any other app, AMS is king
        and anything else running on the Mac is supposed to be getting it's
        information from there.

        Once you've got a correct setup in AMS save the configuration because
        if the MTP/AV happens to be turned off when the machine comes up
        it'll return to a default config; then when you turn the MTP/AV on
        again the system will rebuild the configuration and leave out any
        devices that it don't have drivers for.

        In my case I was hoping to avoid rewiring everything with my new
        setup. Once I figured all this stuff out I bought a new rack and now
        I'm waiting for the opportunity to rewire the whole studio. I guess
        it was overdue anyway.

        Cheers,
        Joe F.

        PS: Hold the mayo.


        On Aug 9, 2006, at 7:09 PM, seamonsters@... wrote:
        >
        > It's occurred to me that maybe there's a way not to network the two
        > MTPAV's, and just connect each to one computer. If I did that, what
        > would I lose? And how would it work -- to use the Oasys as a MIDI
        > device, could I just run two MIDI cables between the two MPTAV's?
        >
        > AudioMidi setup still seems pretty immature compared to either OMS or
        > FreeMIDI (at least is OS 10.3.9, which is what I'm using). Why can't
        > I create a dummy device to route out through to the Oasys? And it
        > doesn't even have a profile for the Nord modular (even OMS has that).
        > Will AMS be further developed?
        >
        > Maybe that's enough for now...
      • Nick Rothwell
        ... I m pretty sure, when the MTP came out (1990?), that one of the big selling points was that it enabled two computers to talk to the same network, and to
        Message 3 of 11 , Aug 10, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          On 10 Aug 2006, at 16:29, Joe F. wrote:

          > The upshot is that the MOTU network port is meant to connect 2
          > interfaces to each other, with only one connected to a single Mac.

          I'm pretty sure, when the MTP came out (1990?), that one of the big
          selling points was that it enabled two computers to talk to the same
          network, and to each other (via "Port 17"). I never managed to get
          that working, though.

          -- N.


          nick rothwell -- composition, systems, performance -- http://
          www.cassiel.com
        • Joe F.
          ... Yeah that s what I thought too. You *can* talk between the two but only the master and it s computer will have a jiving FreeMIDI config that you can
          Message 4 of 11 , Aug 10, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            On Aug 10, 2006, at 10:46 AM, Nick Rothwell wrote:

            > I'm pretty sure, when the MTP came out (1990?), that one of the big
            > selling points was that it enabled two computers to talk to the same
            > network, and to each other (via "Port 17"). I never managed to get
            > that working, though.

            Yeah that's what I thought too. You *can* talk between the two but
            only the master and it's computer will have a jiving FreeMIDI config
            that you can control all the routing with.

            But disappointment is a way of life for me. First Hendrix, then
            Lennon, and now this. Well, at least I'll finally get that patchbay
            in there.

            Joe F.
          • seamonsters@verizon.net
            Replies to Joe, Frank and Devon, re. networking two MTPAV s (cross-posted to Motu-Mac and Oasys lists): Hey Joe, [the proper greeting, since you lament the
            Message 5 of 11 , Aug 10, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Replies to Joe, Frank and Devon, re. networking two MTPAV's
              (cross-posted to Motu-Mac and Oasys lists):

              Hey Joe,
              [the proper greeting, since you lament the passing of Hendrix]

              I did study your past post about networking MTPAV's, but my first
              thought was that your situation is distinguishable in that you were
              trying to send SysEx (for Unisyn) between the two networked 'puters.
              (My Nord Editor sends SysEx but only lives on the B machine [B].) I
              figured that since I've gotten the network to actually pass MIDI
              (two-MTPAV/two-computers, OS9/OSX), there would be some way to set up
              AMS on the A machine [A] to more elegantly address Oasys (or other
              MIDI devices) on [B] ...just like these boxes worked back in the OS 9
              years. Oh well, that's progress for ya.

              The setup you recommend is similar to those recommended by Frank and
              Devon on the Motu-Mac list. Frank's suggestion of keeping the two
              MTPAV's together on [A] and adding a small MIDI interface for [B] is
              good. I have several old MTP II's, so now it looks like I'll have
              three flavors of MTP in my rack (plus a Micro Express for my
              Wallstreet... sheesh, with all those free ports, I should look into a
              MIDI coffee maker).

              Frank, I didn't state it, but my routing setup on [B] has been just
              what you suggested: a DP 3.11 template routing to the Oasys,
              rec-enabled. So no problems on the [B] side itself, but thanks for
              the confirmation.

              FWIW, [B] (the QS dual GB) has a Griffin G4Port on it. I hadn't
              mentioned that; I don't know if that might be a factor distinguishing
              my setup from others'. ([A] is a G5 dual 2GB.)

              My remaining questions: how does the dummy device in AMS on [A]
              needs to be configured to address the Oasys on [B] (via MIDI cable
              between each machine's interface)? I s'pose I'd call the device
              "[B] Controller"; but I don't recall offhand whether there'd be any
              reason to specify that Oasys sends or receives Beat Clock, or any
              other config settings that must be specified(?) It's been a while
              since I've used the Oasys; my brain must need a new PRAM battery.

              And then, with this setup where the only connections between [A] and
              [B] are MIDI cables between the two MIDI interfaces, do I even need
              to deal with clockworks at all? I'm thinking not.

              Best,
              Hoagie
              --
              Seamonster Sounds
              310.456.8229
              http://www.seamonstersounds.com
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.