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Re: [oasys-pci] OASYS Will Randomly Loose Synch No Matter What

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  • Karl
    ... back to 41khz. ...you know everything!!!!!!.....jumps from 48khz to 41khz....41khz?....you know everything?....41khz? I fear not. [Non-text portions of
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
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      > First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about word
      > clock. I have a multiple PC configuration (it shouldn't matter
      > anyway we're only interested in which WordClock device on the chain
      > drives who). All my PCs with OASYSes are slave to ADAT (so they get
      > their wclk through the lightpipe in) and they all receive their wclck
      > from a Scope board on a single PC. Yes the Scope is set as the
      > master (doh).
      >
      > Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz, then
      back to 41khz.



      ...you know everything!!!!!!.....jumps from 48khz to 41khz....41khz?....you
      know everything?....41khz?
      I fear not.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Scott Harris
      I had this problem on one of Macs with an Oasys ( as you say it would jump to 48K from 44.1k ( I assume 41k was a typo). I tried all kinds of things but I was
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
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        I had this problem on one of Macs with an Oasys ( as you say it
        would jump to 48K from 44.1k ( I assume 41k was a typo). I tried
        all kinds of things but I was able to reduce the problem by
        carefully moving any cables that were carrying power away from
        this adat and spdif cables. All I could reason was that there was
        some rf noise that was interfering with signal forcing the Oasys
        to lose clock.

        It was really annoying because in Cubase if I created sliced
        loopes using match and hit points the slices would resize and I
        would have to re-edit the audio segments lengths using the pencil
        tool and then have to reboot the whole system to get the clock
        working properly and then randomly the problem would reoccur.

        IT took a long time to sort this out but I did carefully tie the
        cables back and route the power cables and vga cables in a
        different directions. I'd give this a shot a simplify your setup
        temporarally to test.

        I have 2 lightpiped Oasys and a Korg 1212- spdifed (if that's a
        word) and the problem would occur on the one problem machine even
        when connected in a simple configuration.

        The cable tieing solved it and I posted to the group at that time
        what I had found.

        Let me know how you make out but its worth a shot. That's one hell
        of system :-)



        ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
        From: "Goa303 <goa101@...>" <goa101@...>
        Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:29:14 -0000

        ><html><body>
        >
        >
        ><tt>
        >First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about word
        <BR>
        >clock.  I have a multiple PC configuration (it shouldn't matter
        <BR>
        >anyway we're only interested in which WordClock device on the
        chain <BR>
        >drives who).   All my PCs with OASYSes are slave to ADAT (so they
        get <BR>
        >their wclk through the lightpipe in) and they all receive their
        wclck <BR>
        >from a Scope board on a single PC.  Yes the Scope is set as the
        <BR>
        >master (doh). <BR>
        ><BR>
        >Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz,
        then <BR>
        >back to 41khz.  This makes my whole setup unusable.  Before
        someone <BR>
        >tells me it's the Scope clock that's jittery or something like
        that, <BR>
        >impossible: another PC with a Pulsar board *NEVER* looses it's
        word <BR>
        >clock like that and is driven too by the same master Scope board.
        <BR>
        >Plus, as an additionnal proof, I've tried several things:<BR>
        ><BR>
        >I have an ADAT external ADC that can act as a master too: if I
        set <BR>
        >this converter to master, and let Scope slave to that (and <BR>
        >also "foward" the clock to the OASYSes attached to it, which are
        set <BR>
        >to slave too), the problem still happens, but the Scope and
        Pulsar <BR>
        >PCs *NEVER* loose their synch, so it can't be the external
        converter <BR>
        >that has too much jitter either.   <BR>
        ><BR>
        >As a final thing I've tried, is setting one of the OASYSes to
        Master, <BR>
        >so that it drives the Scope (which then foward this clock to
        other <BR>
        >OASYSes and the Pulsar).   Again, obviously the only OASYS set to
        <BR>
        >Master never switch it's sampling frequency, but the others keep
        <BR>
        >doing it.   It seems that there's a bug in the OASYS that
        prevents it <BR>
        >from synching correctly to wordclock through lightpipe (even
        spdif <BR>
        >now if you continue to read).   Since one <BR>
        >of the OASYSes is connected to the Scope board through SPDIF too,
        I <BR>
        >then tried to make this one synch to SPDIF instead.  Same
        problem.  <BR>
        >I tried switching cables too, checking for loose connections etc.
        <BR>
        >(obviously!!)   After spending so many hours trying to repro and
        get <BR>
        >rid of this damn bug, I'm out of options.  If it's not the OASYS
        that <BR>
        >is buggy, than it somehow isn't "happy" with *any* wordclock
        (spdif <BR>
        >or adat) coming from a Creamware card (even if the card is only
        <BR>
        >fowarding (acting like a clock hub) a clock coming from another
        OASYS <BR>
        >card!!).  <BR>
        >Since the Scope PC has a pulsar board too, I've tried connecting
        some <BR>
        >Oasyses to this other board, so <BR>
        >it's not a specific board problem.  Also, like I said I tried
        making <BR>
        >other masters in the chain, and nothing works.  At this point the
        <BR>
        >only thing I haven't tried is using one OASYS as master and use
        the <BR>
        >BNC wordclock to all other OASYS, and slave the rest of the gear
        <BR>
        >which doesnt have BNC (Scope & Pulsars ) through lightpipe.  <BR>
        ><BR>
        >Also, another bug I found incredibly annoying with OASYS is that
        the <BR>
        >internal & external audio buses routing gets very easily messed
        up.  <BR>
        >Change the clock a couple of time on a master, or make it pop the
        <BR>
        >error message "DSP processing exceeded sample period" and you're
        <BR>
        >totally hosed, you have to reboot *every OASYS PCs* !! Otherwise
        you <BR>
        >have some channels that are muted, or suddenly the ADAT channels
        <BR>
        >appear halfway (the left channel and right channel aren't mapped
        to <BR>
        >the same source label in the editor) between an ADAT and a SPDIF
        <BR>
        >source in the editor, etc. etc.  Restarting the editor won't do,
        you <BR>
        >have to reboot.<BR>
        ><BR>
        >Can anyone help ?<BR>
        ><BR>
        >Happy new year...<BR>
        ><BR>
        ><BR>
        ></tt>
        >
        ><br>
        >
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        ><tt>
        >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR>
        ><BR>
        >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR>
        ><BR>
        >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready,
        willing,<BR>
        >and able to handle all technical support questions. For
        information<BR>
        >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS PCI
        FAQ:<BR>
        ><BR>
        ><a
        href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
        .htm">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
        .htm</a><BR>
        ><BR>
        >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical
        support.<BR>
        ><BR>
        >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the list,
        and<BR>
        >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
        Please<BR>
        >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
        they<BR>
        >like talking with people about the product, and may
        occasionally<BR>
        >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all
        technical<BR>
        >support questions.<BR>
        ></tt>
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        >
        ><br>
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        href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
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        >
        >
      • Nano
        Just curious, are you sure it s not a loop or sample coming out of the audio program you are running?If the sample rate is differen t in even 1 of the samples
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
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          Just curious, are you sure it's not a loop or sample coming out of the audio program you are running?If the sample rate is differen't in even 1 of the samples getting played of course it will screw up the whole clock...I would imagine this is where you started to fix the problem, but just thouhgt I'd give my $.02.I know there are a few samples in my library that are at differen't rates that often make my life hell till I remember that they aren't at the same rate....
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Scott Harris
          To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 11:05 AM
          Subject: RE: [oasys-pci] OASYS Will Randomly Loose Synch No Matter What



          I had this problem on one of Macs with an Oasys ( as you say it
          would jump to 48K from 44.1k ( I assume 41k was a typo). I tried
          all kinds of things but I was able to reduce the problem by
          carefully moving any cables that were carrying power away from
          this adat and spdif cables. All I could reason was that there was
          some rf noise that was interfering with signal forcing the Oasys
          to lose clock.

          It was really annoying because in Cubase if I created sliced
          loopes using match and hit points the slices would resize and I
          would have to re-edit the audio segments lengths using the pencil
          tool and then have to reboot the whole system to get the clock
          working properly and then randomly the problem would reoccur.

          IT took a long time to sort this out but I did carefully tie the
          cables back and route the power cables and vga cables in a
          different directions. I'd give this a shot a simplify your setup
          temporarally to test.

          I have 2 lightpiped Oasys and a Korg 1212- spdifed (if that's a
          word) and the problem would occur on the one problem machine even
          when connected in a simple configuration.

          The cable tieing solved it and I posted to the group at that time
          what I had found.

          Let me know how you make out but its worth a shot. That's one hell
          of system :-)



          ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
          From: "Goa303 <goa101@...>" <goa101@...>
          Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:29:14 -0000

          ><html><body>
          >
          >
          ><tt>
          >First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about word
          <BR>
          >clock. I have a multiple PC configuration (it shouldn't matter
          <BR>
          >anyway we're only interested in which WordClock device on the
          chain <BR>
          >drives who). All my PCs with OASYSes are slave to ADAT (so they
          get <BR>
          >their wclk through the lightpipe in) and they all receive their
          wclck <BR>
          >from a Scope board on a single PC. Yes the Scope is set as the
          <BR>
          >master (doh). <BR>
          ><BR>
          >Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz,
          then <BR>
          >back to 41khz. This makes my whole setup unusable. Before
          someone <BR>
          >tells me it's the Scope clock that's jittery or something like
          that, <BR>
          >impossible: another PC with a Pulsar board *NEVER* looses it's
          word <BR>
          >clock like that and is driven too by the same master Scope board.
          <BR>
          >Plus, as an additionnal proof, I've tried several things:<BR>
          ><BR>
          >I have an ADAT external ADC that can act as a master too: if I
          set <BR>
          >this converter to master, and let Scope slave to that (and <BR>
          >also "foward" the clock to the OASYSes attached to it, which are
          set <BR>
          >to slave too), the problem still happens, but the Scope and
          Pulsar <BR>
          >PCs *NEVER* loose their synch, so it can't be the external
          converter <BR>
          >that has too much jitter either. <BR>
          ><BR>
          >As a final thing I've tried, is setting one of the OASYSes to
          Master, <BR>
          >so that it drives the Scope (which then foward this clock to
          other <BR>
          >OASYSes and the Pulsar). Again, obviously the only OASYS set to
          <BR>
          >Master never switch it's sampling frequency, but the others keep
          <BR>
          >doing it. It seems that there's a bug in the OASYS that
          prevents it <BR>
          >from synching correctly to wordclock through lightpipe (even
          spdif <BR>
          >now if you continue to read). Since one <BR>
          >of the OASYSes is connected to the Scope board through SPDIF too,
          I <BR>
          >then tried to make this one synch to SPDIF instead. Same
          problem. <BR>
          >I tried switching cables too, checking for loose connections etc.
          <BR>
          >(obviously!!) After spending so many hours trying to repro and
          get <BR>
          >rid of this damn bug, I'm out of options. If it's not the OASYS
          that <BR>
          >is buggy, than it somehow isn't "happy" with *any* wordclock
          (spdif <BR>
          >or adat) coming from a Creamware card (even if the card is only
          <BR>
          >fowarding (acting like a clock hub) a clock coming from another
          OASYS <BR>
          >card!!). <BR>
          >Since the Scope PC has a pulsar board too, I've tried connecting
          some <BR>
          >Oasyses to this other board, so <BR>
          >it's not a specific board problem. Also, like I said I tried
          making <BR>
          >other masters in the chain, and nothing works. At this point the
          <BR>
          >only thing I haven't tried is using one OASYS as master and use
          the <BR>
          >BNC wordclock to all other OASYS, and slave the rest of the gear
          <BR>
          >which doesnt have BNC (Scope & Pulsars ) through lightpipe. <BR>
          ><BR>
          >Also, another bug I found incredibly annoying with OASYS is that
          the <BR>
          >internal & external audio buses routing gets very easily messed
          up. <BR>
          >Change the clock a couple of time on a master, or make it pop the
          <BR>
          >error message "DSP processing exceeded sample period" and you're
          <BR>
          >totally hosed, you have to reboot *every OASYS PCs* !! Otherwise
          you <BR>
          >have some channels that are muted, or suddenly the ADAT channels
          <BR>
          >appear halfway (the left channel and right channel aren't mapped
          to <BR>
          >the same source label in the editor) between an ADAT and a SPDIF
          <BR>
          >source in the editor, etc. etc. Restarting the editor won't do,
          you <BR>
          >have to reboot.<BR>
          ><BR>
          >Can anyone help ?<BR>
          ><BR>
          >Happy new year...<BR>
          ><BR>
          ><BR>
          ></tt>
          >
          ><br>
          >
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          >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR>
          ><BR>
          >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR>
          ><BR>
          >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready,
          willing,<BR>
          >and able to handle all technical support questions. For
          information<BR>
          >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS PCI
          FAQ:<BR>
          ><BR>
          ><a
          href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
          .htm">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
          .htm</a><BR>
          ><BR>
          >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical
          support.<BR>
          ><BR>
          >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the list,
          and<BR>
          >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
          Please<BR>
          >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
          they<BR>
          >like talking with people about the product, and may
          occasionally<BR>
          >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all
          technical<BR>
          >support questions.<BR>
          ></tt>
          ><br>
          >
          ><br>
          ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
          href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
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          >
          >



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          * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

          Contacting Korg Technical Support

          Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready, willing,
          and able to handle all technical support questions. For information
          on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS PCI FAQ:

          http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support.htm

          This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical support.

          Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the list, and
          enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit. Please
          note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as they
          like talking with people about the product, and may occasionally
          offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all technical
          support questions.


          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alex Kitaen <akitaen@hotmail.com>
          ... I ve seen something like this when my underpowered machine is under too heavy an interrupt load or bus traffic load. Watch the DMA errors diagnostic when
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Goa303 <goa101@y...>"
            <goa101@y...> wrote:
            > Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz, then
            > back to 41khz.

            I've seen something like this when my underpowered machine is under
            too heavy an interrupt load or bus traffic load. Watch the DMA
            errors diagnostic when this happens, in my case these errors jump
            like crazy when I see this error. It happens for me when Cubase is
            putting out heavy midi traffic (so I/O traffic includes timer
            interrupts, serial i/o for my midi interface, cubase audio in/out and
            video traffic, and oasys video updates, etc). The error goes away
            for me when I turn off oasys meter updates.

            I see this on a 500 MHz p3 with 440bx mobo. I don't see this on a
            933 MHz p3 with 815 mobo, which I suspect has better i/o bandwidth.

            I believe korg has troubleshooting diagnostics that mention things
            like turning off oasys meters to try in case of errors. In case you
            aren't really familiar already, look at IRQ priority amongst all the
            things interrupting when you're sequencing/oasysing, I believe it
            really can affect sound card reliability and midi timing. See if
            video acceleration settings make a difference (ie mess with oasys
            interrupt latency).

            good luck!
            -a
          • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
            Thanks for your reply Joe. I don t have a problem with timecode synch, which is a whole different matter (and for now I m using SMTPE through MTC for that). My
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
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              Thanks for your reply Joe.

              I don't have a problem with timecode synch, which is a whole
              different matter (and for now I'm using SMTPE through MTC for that).

              My system might seem complex, but it's not, a little planning just
              before buying cables and making connections avoided most problems.

              I tried one experiment as a last resort, just connecting two OASYS
              only, side by side, one master and the other slave, through
              BNC/coaxial. Syncs fine, but I was able to repro this after a while,
              just when I had hope that making one of the OASYS master and using
              BNC for all the OASYS would work (ie not using the center node -
              Scope - to redistribute the clock).

              --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, Joe F <joef1@m...> wrote:
              > Hey Happy New Year to everyone. Hope it's a good one for us all.
              >
              > On 12/31/02 11:29 PM, "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" wrote:
              > > First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about word
              > > clock.
              >
              > That's all well and good, I don't know that much but my
              understanding is
              > that using lightpipe sync is only reliable with two or three
              devices; more
              > than that, I've always heard, needs a dedicated master clock device.
              >
              > It's not really clear what you're trying to do and if timecode is
              involved
              > or should be.
              >
              > It sounds like the first problem is the same as the second one you
              describe.
              > I've had the second one happen to me a few times. I don't mess
              around with
              > the clock source or sample rates very often though.
              >
              > The few times I've had the Oasys audio lose sync and the routing
              get screwed
              > up, I traced the problem to loops.
              >
              > I have a pretty simple setup, a MOTU 828 is the master with the
              Oasys
              > lightpipe in and out connections. But simple as it is, the software
              routing
              > can be pretty complex and it's easy to bus a signal for two round
              trips to
              > the Oasys. Sometimes it straightens itself out and sometimes I need
              to
              > restart.
              >
              > With 4 PCs and an ADAT (that we know about so far) you're pretty
              lucky to
              > have just an intermittent problem. I think you can probably look
              for one
              > simple little thing to be set wrong because, in a system that
              complex, if
              > something was really wrong it wouldn't work at all.
              >
              > Also there's something in the FAQ about setting different software
              for
              > continuous sync or trigger sync that might help you.
              >
              > Good luck,
              > Joe F.
            • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
              I said that so we skip the usual RTFM, you need only one master, yadda yadda. Like others noticed except you, that was a typo. Happy new year even to trolls I
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                I said that so we skip the usual RTFM, you need only one master,
                yadda yadda. Like others noticed except you, that was a typo.

                Happy new year even to trolls I guess...

                --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, Karl <palex.f@n...> wrote:
                > > First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about word
                > > clock. I have a multiple PC configuration (it shouldn't matter
                > > anyway we're only interested in which WordClock device on the
                chain
                > > drives who). All my PCs with OASYSes are slave to ADAT (so they
                get
                > > their wclk through the lightpipe in) and they all receive their
                wclck
                > > from a Scope board on a single PC. Yes the Scope is set as the
                > > master (doh).
                > >
                > > Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz, then
                > back to 41khz.
                >
                >
                >
                > ...you know everything!!!!!!.....jumps from 48khz to
                41khz....41khz?....you
                > know everything?....41khz?
                > I fear not.
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                Hello Scott, Thanks, for your reply. (yes 41k was obviously a typo) About RF noise though, ADAT lightpipe shouldn t be sensitive to that, since it s optical.
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hello Scott,

                  Thanks, for your reply.

                  (yes 41k was obviously a typo)

                  About RF noise though, ADAT lightpipe shouldn't be sensitive to that,
                  since it's optical. Anyways, I did try to simplify the system by just
                  putting two OASYS side by side synched through BNC, having one master
                  and one slave. The cable was laying up front, far from the rest of
                  the studio cables behind. The problem still happened :(. (As a
                  side note, my cables are also tied-wrapped now, it's much less a mess
                  than it was before, 5 months ago, I had my lesson when I had to
                  completely change my cabling setup :) )

                  Yes that's a nice setup if it would just work (like it's supposed to
                  by design anyways). There's 4 computers, 3 with OASYS, one with a
                  pulsar/scope system which act as the mixing center, and one of the
                  OASYS comp also has a pulsar board (I had one left, decided to use it
                  to get the additionnal driver interfaces in that machine, like GSIF,
                  and more IO between that comp and the center node). Everything is
                  working right except for this. Mind you at first I thought
                  everything was ok, it's only while working that I discovered this
                  bug. At first I thought that was Windows which was freezing
                  randomly, but it couldn't be: the DSP processing on OASYS still goes
                  on. That's when I tried to open the preference panel and watched it
                  while thinking, and I've noticed the frequency setting would jump
                  from 44.1 to 48 khz, and that was causing the audio skips...



                  --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harris" <SCHARRIS@I...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I had this problem on one of Macs with an Oasys ( as you say it
                  > would jump to 48K from 44.1k ( I assume 41k was a typo). I tried
                  > all kinds of things but I was able to reduce the problem by
                  > carefully moving any cables that were carrying power away from
                  > this adat and spdif cables. All I could reason was that there was
                  > some rf noise that was interfering with signal forcing the Oasys
                  > to lose clock.
                  >
                  > It was really annoying because in Cubase if I created sliced
                  > loopes using match and hit points the slices would resize and I
                  > would have to re-edit the audio segments lengths using the pencil
                  > tool and then have to reboot the whole system to get the clock
                  > working properly and then randomly the problem would reoccur.
                  >
                  > IT took a long time to sort this out but I did carefully tie the
                  > cables back and route the power cables and vga cables in a
                  > different directions. I'd give this a shot a simplify your setup
                  > temporarally to test.
                  >
                  > I have 2 lightpiped Oasys and a Korg 1212- spdifed (if that's a
                  > word) and the problem would occur on the one problem machine even
                  > when connected in a simple configuration.
                  >
                  > The cable tieing solved it and I posted to the group at that time
                  > what I had found.
                  >
                  > Let me know how you make out but its worth a shot. That's one hell
                  > of system :-)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                  > From: "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" <goa101@y...>
                  > Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:29:14 -0000
                  >
                  > ><html><body>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > ><tt>
                  > >First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about word
                  > <BR>
                  > >clock.  I have a multiple PC configuration (it shouldn't matter
                  > <BR>
                  > >anyway we're only interested in which WordClock device on the
                  > chain <BR>
                  > >drives who).   All my PCs with OASYSes are slave to ADAT (so
                  they
                  > get <BR>
                  > >their wclk through the lightpipe in) and they all receive their
                  > wclck <BR>
                  > >from a Scope board on a single PC.  Yes the Scope is set as the
                  > <BR>
                  > >master (doh). <BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz,
                  > then <BR>
                  > >back to 41khz.  This makes my whole setup unusable.  Before
                  > someone <BR>
                  > >tells me it's the Scope clock that's jittery or something like
                  > that, <BR>
                  > >impossible: another PC with a Pulsar board *NEVER* looses it's
                  > word <BR>
                  > >clock like that and is driven too by the same master Scope board.
                  > <BR>
                  > >Plus, as an additionnal proof, I've tried several things:<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >I have an ADAT external ADC that can act as a master too: if I
                  > set <BR>
                  > >this converter to master, and let Scope slave to that (and <BR>
                  > >also "foward" the clock to the OASYSes attached to it, which are
                  > set <BR>
                  > >to slave too), the problem still happens, but the Scope and
                  > Pulsar <BR>
                  > >PCs *NEVER* loose their synch, so it can't be the external
                  > converter <BR>
                  > >that has too much jitter either.   <BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >As a final thing I've tried, is setting one of the OASYSes to
                  > Master, <BR>
                  > >so that it drives the Scope (which then foward this clock to
                  > other <BR>
                  > >OASYSes and the Pulsar).   Again, obviously the only OASYS set
                  to
                  > <BR>
                  > >Master never switch it's sampling frequency, but the others keep
                  > <BR>
                  > >doing it.   It seems that there's a bug in the OASYS that
                  > prevents it <BR>
                  > >from synching correctly to wordclock through lightpipe (even
                  > spdif <BR>
                  > >now if you continue to read).   Since one <BR>
                  > >of the OASYSes is connected to the Scope board through SPDIF too,
                  > I <BR>
                  > >then tried to make this one synch to SPDIF instead.  Same
                  > problem.  <BR>
                  > >I tried switching cables too, checking for loose connections etc.
                  > <BR>
                  > >(obviously!!)   After spending so many hours trying to repro
                  and
                  > get <BR>
                  > >rid of this damn bug, I'm out of options.  If it's not the
                  OASYS
                  > that <BR>
                  > >is buggy, than it somehow isn't "happy" with *any* wordclock
                  > (spdif <BR>
                  > >or adat) coming from a Creamware card (even if the card is only
                  > <BR>
                  > >fowarding (acting like a clock hub) a clock coming from another
                  > OASYS <BR>
                  > >card!!).  <BR>
                  > >Since the Scope PC has a pulsar board too, I've tried connecting
                  > some <BR>
                  > >Oasyses to this other board, so <BR>
                  > >it's not a specific board problem.  Also, like I said I tried
                  > making <BR>
                  > >other masters in the chain, and nothing works.  At this point
                  the
                  > <BR>
                  > >only thing I haven't tried is using one OASYS as master and use
                  > the <BR>
                  > >BNC wordclock to all other OASYS, and slave the rest of the gear
                  > <BR>
                  > >which doesnt have BNC (Scope & Pulsars ) through lightpipe. 
                  <BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >Also, another bug I found incredibly annoying with OASYS is that
                  > the <BR>
                  > >internal & external audio buses routing gets very easily messed
                  > up.  <BR>
                  > >Change the clock a couple of time on a master, or make it pop the
                  > <BR>
                  > >error message "DSP processing exceeded sample period" and you're
                  > <BR>
                  > >totally hosed, you have to reboot *every OASYS PCs* !! Otherwise
                  > you <BR>
                  > >have some channels that are muted, or suddenly the ADAT channels
                  > <BR>
                  > >appear halfway (the left channel and right channel aren't mapped
                  > to <BR>
                  > >the same source label in the editor) between an ADAT and a SPDIF
                  > <BR>
                  > >source in the editor, etc. etc.  Restarting the editor won't
                  do,
                  > you <BR>
                  > >have to reboot.<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >Can anyone help ?<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >Happy new year...<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > ></tt>
                  > >
                  > ><br>
                  > >
                  > ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
                  > >
                  > ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
                  > ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
                  > ><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
                  > Sponsor</b></font></td>
                  > ></tr>
                  > ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
                  > ><td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0
                  > cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-
                  > 2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
                  > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroup
                  > web/S=1705032144:HM/A=1328027/R=0/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;48
                  > 70030;7586687;u?http://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?
                  > ad=Yahoo01"><img
                  > src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/am/ameriquest/yahoo_300x25
                  > 0_lower.gif" alt="" width="300" height="250"
                  > border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
                  > ></tr>
                  > ><tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
                  > src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
                  > M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1328027/rand=
                  > 888853197"></td></tr>
                  > ></table>
                  > >
                  > ><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
                  > >
                  > >
                  > ><br>
                  > ><tt>
                  > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready,
                  > willing,<BR>
                  > >and able to handle all technical support questions. For
                  > information<BR>
                  > >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS PCI
                  > FAQ:<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > ><a
                  > href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                  > .htm">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                  > .htm</a><BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical
                  > support.<BR>
                  > ><BR>
                  > >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the list,
                  > and<BR>
                  > >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                  > Please<BR>
                  > >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
                  > they<BR>
                  > >like talking with people about the product, and may
                  > occasionally<BR>
                  > >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all
                  > technical<BR>
                  > >support questions.<BR>
                  > ></tt>
                  > ><br>
                  > >
                  > ><br>
                  > ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
                  > href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
                  > Service</a>.</tt>
                  > ></br>
                  > >
                  > ></body></html>
                  > >
                  > >
                • Scott Harris
                  Do you have the breakout spdif cables inserted or are using only the toslink connectors? ... From: Goa303 Reply-To:
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Do you have the breakout spdif cables inserted or are using only
                    the toslink connectors?

                    ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                    From: "Goa303 <goa101@...>" <goa101@...>
                    Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 00:05:10 -0000

                    ><html><body>
                    >
                    >
                    ><tt>
                    >Hello Scott,<BR>
                    ><BR>
                    >Thanks, for your reply.<BR>
                    ><BR>
                    >(yes 41k was obviously a typo)<BR>
                    ><BR>
                    >About RF noise though, ADAT lightpipe shouldn't be sensitive to
                    that, <BR>
                    >since it's optical. Anyways, I did try to simplify the system by
                    just <BR>
                    >putting two OASYS side by side synched through BNC, having one
                    master <BR>
                    >and one slave. The cable was laying up front, far from the rest
                    of <BR>
                    >the studio cables behind.  The problem still happened  :(.  (As a
                    <BR>
                    >side note, my cables are also tied-wrapped now, it's much less a
                    mess <BR>
                    >than it was before, 5 months ago, I had my lesson when I had to
                    <BR>
                    >completely change my cabling setup  :)  )<BR>
                    ><BR>
                    >Yes that's a nice setup if it would just work (like it's supposed
                    to <BR>
                    >by design anyways).  There's 4 computers, 3 with OASYS, one with
                    a <BR>
                    >pulsar/scope system which act as the mixing center, and one of
                    the <BR>
                    >OASYS comp also has a pulsar board (I had one left, decided to
                    use it <BR>
                    >to get the additionnal driver interfaces in that machine, like
                    GSIF, <BR>
                    >and more IO between that comp and the center node).  Everything
                    is <BR>
                    >working right except for this.  Mind you at first I thought <BR>
                    >everything was ok, it's only while working that I discovered this
                    <BR>
                    >bug.  At first I thought that was Windows which was freezing <BR>
                    >randomly, but it couldn't be: the DSP processing on OASYS still
                    goes <BR>
                    >on.  That's when I tried to open the preference panel and watched
                    it <BR>
                    >while thinking, and I've noticed the frequency setting would jump
                    <BR>
                    >from 44.1 to 48 khz, and that was causing the audio skips...<BR>
                    ><BR>
                    ><BR>
                    ><BR>
                    >--- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harris" <SCHARRIS@I...>
                    <BR>
                    >wrote:<BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> I had this problem on one of Macs with an Oasys ( as you say it
                    <BR>
                    >> would jump to 48K from 44.1k ( I assume 41k was a typo). I
                    tried <BR>
                    >> all kinds of things but I was able to reduce the problem by <BR>
                    >> carefully moving any cables that were carrying power away from
                    <BR>
                    >> this adat and spdif cables. All I could reason was that there
                    was <BR>
                    >> some rf noise that was interfering with signal forcing the
                    Oasys <BR>
                    >> to lose clock. <BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> It was really annoying because in Cubase if I created sliced
                    <BR>
                    >> loopes using match and hit points the slices would resize and I
                    <BR>
                    >> would have to re-edit the audio segments lengths using the
                    pencil <BR>
                    >> tool and then have to reboot the whole system to get the clock
                    <BR>
                    >> working properly and then randomly the problem would reoccur.
                    <BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> IT took a long time to sort this out but I did carefully tie
                    the <BR>
                    >> cables back and route the power cables and vga cables in a <BR>
                    >> different directions. I'd give this a shot a simplify your
                    setup <BR>
                    >> temporarally to test. <BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> I have 2 lightpiped  Oasys and a Korg 1212- spdifed (if that's
                    a <BR>
                    >> word) and the problem would occur on the one problem machine
                    even <BR>
                    >> when connected in a simple configuration. <BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> The cable tieing solved it and I posted to the group at that
                    time <BR>
                    >> what I had found. <BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> Let me know how you make out but its worth a shot. That's one
                    hell <BR>
                    >> of system :-)<BR>
                    >>   <BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                    <BR>
                    >> From: "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" <goa101@y...><BR>
                    >> Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                    >> Date:  Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:29:14 -0000<BR>
                    >> <BR>
                    >> ><html><body><BR>
                    >> ><BR>
                    >> ><BR>
                    >> ><tt><BR>
                    >> >First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about
                    word <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >clock.  I have a multiple PC configuration (it shouldn't
                    matter <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >anyway we're only interested in which WordClock device on the
                    <BR>
                    >> chain <BR><BR>
                    >> >drives who).   All my PCs with OASYSes are slave to ADAT
                    (so<BR>
                    >they <BR>
                    >> get <BR><BR>
                    >> >their wclk through the lightpipe in) and they all receive
                    their <BR>
                    >> wclck <BR><BR>
                    >> >from a Scope board on a single PC.  Yes the Scope is set as
                    the <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >master (doh). <BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> >Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz,
                    <BR>
                    >> then <BR><BR>
                    >> >back to 41khz.  This makes my whole setup unusable.  Before
                    <BR>
                    >> someone <BR><BR>
                    >> >tells me it's the Scope clock that's jittery or something like
                    <BR>
                    >> that, <BR><BR>
                    >> >impossible: another PC with a Pulsar board *NEVER* looses it's
                    <BR>
                    >> word <BR><BR>
                    >> >clock like that and is driven too by the same master Scope
                    board. <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >Plus, as an additionnal proof, I've tried several
                    things:<BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> >I have an ADAT external ADC that can act as a master too: if I
                    <BR>
                    >> set <BR><BR>
                    >> >this converter to master, and let Scope slave to that (and
                    <BR><BR>
                    >> >also "foward" the clock to the OASYSes attached to it, which
                    are <BR>
                    >> set <BR><BR>
                    >> >to slave too), the problem still happens, but the Scope and
                    <BR>
                    >> Pulsar <BR><BR>
                    >> >PCs *NEVER* loose their synch, so it can't be the external <BR>
                    >> converter <BR><BR>
                    >> >that has too much jitter either.   <BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> >As a final thing I've tried, is setting one of the OASYSes to
                    <BR>
                    >> Master, <BR><BR>
                    >> >so that it drives the Scope (which then foward this clock to
                    <BR>
                    >> other <BR><BR>
                    >> >OASYSes and the Pulsar).   Again, obviously the only OASYS
                    set<BR>
                    >to <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >Master never switch it's sampling frequency, but the others
                    keep <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >doing it.   It seems that there's a bug in the OASYS that <BR>
                    >> prevents it <BR><BR>
                    >> >from synching correctly to wordclock through lightpipe (even
                    <BR>
                    >> spdif <BR><BR>
                    >> >now if you continue to read).   Since one <BR><BR>
                    >> >of the OASYSes is connected to the Scope board through SPDIF
                    too, <BR>
                    >> I <BR><BR>
                    >> >then tried to make this one synch to SPDIF instead.  Same <BR>
                    >> problem.  <BR><BR>
                    >> >I tried switching cables too, checking for loose connections
                    etc. <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >(obviously!!)   After spending so many hours trying to
                    repro<BR>
                    >and <BR>
                    >> get <BR><BR>
                    >> >rid of this damn bug, I'm out of options.  If it's not the<BR>
                    >OASYS <BR>
                    >> that <BR><BR>
                    >> >is buggy, than it somehow isn't "happy" with *any* wordclock
                    <BR>
                    >> (spdif <BR><BR>
                    >> >or adat) coming from a Creamware card (even if the card is
                    only <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >fowarding (acting like a clock hub) a clock coming from
                    another <BR>
                    >> OASYS <BR><BR>
                    >> >card!!).  <BR><BR>
                    >> >Since the Scope PC has a pulsar board too, I've tried
                    connecting <BR>
                    >> some <BR><BR>
                    >> >Oasyses to this other board, so <BR><BR>
                    >> >it's not a specific board problem.  Also, like I said I tried
                    <BR>
                    >> making <BR><BR>
                    >> >other masters in the chain, and nothing works.  At this
                    point<BR>
                    >the <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >only thing I haven't tried is using one OASYS as master and
                    use <BR>
                    >> the <BR><BR>
                    >> >BNC wordclock to all other OASYS, and slave the rest of the
                    gear <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >which doesnt have BNC (Scope & Pulsars ) through
                    lightpipe. <BR>
                    ><BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> >Also, another bug I found incredibly annoying with OASYS is
                    that <BR>
                    >> the <BR><BR>
                    >> >internal & external audio buses routing gets very easily
                    messed <BR>
                    >> up.  <BR><BR>
                    >> >Change the clock a couple of time on a master, or make it pop
                    the <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >error message "DSP processing exceeded sample period" and
                    you're <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >totally hosed, you have to reboot *every OASYS PCs* !!
                    Otherwise <BR>
                    >> you <BR><BR>
                    >> >have some channels that are muted, or suddenly the ADAT
                    channels <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >appear halfway (the left channel and right channel aren't
                    mapped <BR>
                    >> to <BR><BR>
                    >> >the same source label in the editor) between an ADAT and a
                    SPDIF <BR>
                    >> <BR><BR>
                    >> >source in the editor, etc. etc.  Restarting the editor
                    won't<BR>
                    >do, <BR>
                    >> you <BR><BR>
                    >> >have to reboot.<BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> >Can anyone help ?<BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> >Happy new year...<BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> ></tt><BR>
                    >> ><BR>
                    >> ><br><BR>
                    >> ><BR>
                    >> ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR>
                    >> ><BR>
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                    >> ><tt><BR>
                    >> >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready, <BR>
                    >> willing,<BR><BR>
                    >> >and able to handle all technical support questions. For <BR>
                    >> information<BR><BR>
                    >> >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS
                    PCI <BR>
                    >> FAQ:<BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
                    >> ><a <BR>
                    >> href="<a
                    href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                    ">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support</a>
                    <BR>
                    >> .htm"><a
                    href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                    ">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support</a>
                    <BR>
                    >> .htm</a><BR><BR>
                    >> ><BR><BR>
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                    >> support.<BR><BR>
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                    list, <BR>
                    >> and<BR><BR>
                    >> >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                    <BR>
                    >> Please<BR><BR>
                    >> >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
                    <BR>
                    >> they<BR><BR>
                    >> >like talking with people about the product, and may <BR>
                    >> occasionally<BR><BR>
                    >> >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all <BR>
                    >> technical<BR><BR>
                    >> >support questions.<BR><BR>
                    >> ></tt><BR>
                    >> ><br><BR>
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                    information<BR>
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                    ><BR>
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                    href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                    .htm">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
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                    >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                    Please<BR>
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                    >like talking with people about the product, and may
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                  • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                    Hello Alex, Thank you for your reply. I m also thinking that this is something to do with the OASYS + its driver / SW on the machine, rather than the external
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
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                      Hello Alex,

                      Thank you for your reply.

                      I'm also thinking that this is something to do with the OASYS + its
                      driver / SW on the machine, rather than the external clock signal
                      itself (the numerous tests I did point to that, since no other device
                      loose the clck, and even trying a simple 2 OASYS config would
                      repro).

                      Why would you think this would happen though ? (I'm just asking for
                      curiosity, as anything that would solve my problem at this point is
                      very welcomed ) You would think that the 1rst DSP on the OASYS would
                      take care of the task of locking to the incoming clock, through a PLL
                      thing or whatever. OASYS would only need to interrupt for clock
                      changes to notify the miniport driver and in turn the OASYS engine.
                      Of course, I see where heavy pci load would cut the audio, since all
                      midi and audio data sent to the OASYS goes accross the PCI bus, but
                      in the case of the clock, it's received "locally" on the board
                      itself, in other words, the board is not getting its sampling clock
                      (synchronously) through regular PCI writes.
                      My test case to repro this bug was to just open winamp and play back
                      an mp3 through an OASYS stream, opening the preference panel in the
                      OASYS editor, and wait for the sampling frequency setting to jump.
                      Almost nothing else was opened in the background.

                      For IRQ latency, the OASYS is on IRQ 9, which is a high priority
                      one. There's another PCI device using this one, the onboard intel
                      82801AA (the ATA/HD SMBus Controller).

                      [---
                      Just a side note: before everyone cries to heresy, IRQ sharing is a
                      normal thing on PCI devices, as long as the IRQ is not shared with an
                      ISA device. If everybody involved in a particular IRQ does its job
                      correctly (that is the PNP manager/ Bus driver, the IRQ dispatcher,
                      (ie the OS), and all ISRs/vendors hooking it) there should be no
                      problem with this. In fact w2k will often put most of the PCI
                      devices on the same IRQ depending on the hall and hw installed.
                      Compaq made a laptop which was working perfectly with 5 devices
                      sharing a single IRQ under win9x)
                      But this is something I would try anyway (try to make it use another
                      IRQ) if nothing else works.
                      But again I dont see how this could solve the problem (even if it
                      helps *just slightly* for interrupt servicing latency) if what I
                      wrote in the other paragraph is true (see "just asking for
                      curiosity").
                      ---]

                      What do you think ?

                      BTW, what do you mean by
                      > "watching the DMA errors diagnostic" ?

                      You mean an error code that OASYS is popping ? If that's the case,
                      the OASYS doesn't throw any errors, it's just cuts audio, jitter it's
                      clock setting, and goes back to normal operation.




                      --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Kitaen <akitaen@h...>"
                      <akitaen@h...> wrote:
                      > --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Goa303 <goa101@y...>"
                      > <goa101@y...> wrote:
                      > > Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz,
                      then
                      > > back to 41khz.
                      >
                      > I've seen something like this when my underpowered machine is under
                      > too heavy an interrupt load or bus traffic load. Watch the DMA
                      > errors diagnostic when this happens, in my case these errors jump
                      > like crazy when I see this error. It happens for me when Cubase is
                      > putting out heavy midi traffic (so I/O traffic includes timer
                      > interrupts, serial i/o for my midi interface, cubase audio in/out
                      and
                      > video traffic, and oasys video updates, etc). The error goes away
                      > for me when I turn off oasys meter updates.
                      >
                      > I see this on a 500 MHz p3 with 440bx mobo. I don't see this on a
                      > 933 MHz p3 with 815 mobo, which I suspect has better i/o bandwidth.
                      >
                      > I believe korg has troubleshooting diagnostics that mention things
                      > like turning off oasys meters to try in case of errors. In case
                      you
                      > aren't really familiar already, look at IRQ priority amongst all
                      the
                      > things interrupting when you're sequencing/oasysing, I believe it
                      > really can affect sound card reliability and midi timing. See if
                      > video acceleration settings make a difference (ie mess with oasys
                      > interrupt latency).
                      >
                      > good luck!
                      > -a
                    • Frank W.Kooistra
                      I was thinking that Oasys loads the bus PCI bus every little : Ram is on the card Procs are on the card : The Pulsar/scope devices because the almost have no
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
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                        I was thinking that Oasys loads the bus PCI bus every little : Ram is on
                        the card Procs are on the card : The Pulsar/scope devices because the
                        almost have no local memory load the bus a lot.

                        one mpeg is no bus load at all some cards do 52 channels of audio at the
                        same time

                        and i think the clock sources would ne on the card and is nothing to
                        worry about again.


                        Regards
                        Frank


                        >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Message <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

                        On 1/2/03, 1:52:42 AM, "Goa303 <goa101@...>" <goa101@...> wrote
                        regarding [oasys-pci] Re: OASYS Will Randomly Loose Synch No Matter What:


                        > Hello Alex,

                        > Thank you for your reply.

                        > I'm also thinking that this is something to do with the OASYS + its
                        > driver / SW on the machine, rather than the external clock signal
                        > Of course, I see where heavy pci load would cut the audio, since all
                        > midi and audio data sent to the OASYS goes accross the PCI bus, but

                        > itself, in other words, the board is not getting its sampling clock
                        > (synchronously) through regular PCI writes.
                        > My test case to repro this bug was to just open winamp and play back
                        > an mp3 through an OASYS stream, opening the preference panel in the
                        > OASYS editor, and wait for the sampling frequency setting to jump.
                      • Alex Kitaen <akitaen@hotmail.com>
                        ... From these panels: Oasys Wave Device Settings / Diagnostics... / DMA Errors In my experience, this is the Oasys happiness meter. While errors are low,
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 1, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > BTW, what do you mean by
                          > > "watching the DMA errors diagnostic" ?

                          From these panels:
                          Oasys Wave Device Settings / Diagnostics... / DMA Errors

                          In my experience, this is the Oasys happiness meter. While errors
                          are low, Oasys never has trouble. You can see how Oasys gets less
                          happy when more interrupt heavy things or i/o are going. I have a
                          theory about all this, sort of my superstition that seems to keep my
                          studio happy.

                          Seems like Oasys could be sensitive to being able to very reliably /
                          regularly servicing its interrupts. If the PC interrupt controllers
                          work the way I suspect, you may be able to prioritize which service
                          routines finish first. If you are experiencing driver related
                          problems as a result of driver priority and scheduling, I think you
                          can influence the result. If you are seeing the same problem I can
                          recreate, it would be useful to know what your DMA error rate is
                          under 'normal' circumstances and at the time of the error, and if
                          turning off Oasys meter displays affects the result.

                          I'll look closer at the reply later and maybe discuss more, got to
                          run now.

                          best regards,
                          -alex
                        • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                          I tried my repro steps, having both the diag panel and preference panel open. DMA errors always stay between 3-12, when the actual clock switch (the random
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 2, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I tried my repro steps, having both the diag panel and preference
                            panel open. DMA errors always stay between 3-12, when the actual
                            clock switch (the random bug appear), it goes to a negative number
                            (obviously invalid, the multi is stopped, and after the clock
                            switches, the status goes back to "playing multi" and DMA errors go
                            back between 3-12).

                            As a side note, I also tried switching the OASYS to another slot
                            where it is alone using a particular IRQ and it didn't solve the
                            bug. (It's original IRQ was 9 as I said before, and the fact that
                            the SMBus (never used anyway!) controller was using it didn't cause
                            any problems. Note that I said HD/ATA controller too in my previous
                            reply, but I just meant that it's the same chip, the intel82801AA,
                            but the actual ATA part of it use other IRQs obviously (14 & 15 as
                            most motherboard ATA controller use) )


                            --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Alex Kitaen <akitaen@h...>"
                            <akitaen@h...> wrote:
                            > > BTW, what do you mean by
                            > > > "watching the DMA errors diagnostic" ?
                            >
                            > From these panels:
                            > Oasys Wave Device Settings / Diagnostics... / DMA Errors
                            >
                            > In my experience, this is the Oasys happiness meter. While errors
                            > are low, Oasys never has trouble. You can see how Oasys gets less
                            > happy when more interrupt heavy things or i/o are going. I have a
                            > theory about all this, sort of my superstition that seems to keep
                            my
                            > studio happy.
                            >
                            > Seems like Oasys could be sensitive to being able to very
                            reliably /
                            > regularly servicing its interrupts. If the PC interrupt
                            controllers
                            > work the way I suspect, you may be able to prioritize which service
                            > routines finish first. If you are experiencing driver related
                            > problems as a result of driver priority and scheduling, I think you
                            > can influence the result. If you are seeing the same problem I can
                            > recreate, it would be useful to know what your DMA error rate is
                            > under 'normal' circumstances and at the time of the error, and if
                            > turning off Oasys meter displays affects the result.
                            >
                            > I'll look closer at the reply later and maybe discuss more, got to
                            > run now.
                            >
                            > best regards,
                            > -alex
                          • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                            I tried both configurations to repro: that is, one having the SPDIF connected to SCOPE, and with another one, none of the SPDIF connectors plugged in, only
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 2, 2003
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                              I tried both configurations to repro: that is, one having the SPDIF
                              connected to SCOPE, and with another one, none of the SPDIF
                              connectors plugged in, only ADAT lightpipe (toslink). Didnt seem to
                              change anything.

                              You were thinking that maybe some garbage to SPDIF in, even though
                              the panel selection for clock source is set to ADAT lightpipe or BNC
                              Word Clock, would affect it ?


                              --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harris" <SCHARRIS@I...>
                              wrote:
                              >
                              > Do you have the breakout spdif cables inserted or are using only
                              > the toslink connectors?
                              >
                              > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                              > From: "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" <goa101@y...>
                              > Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2003 00:05:10 -0000
                              >
                              > ><html><body>
                              > >
                              > >
                              > ><tt>
                              > >Hello Scott,<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >Thanks, for your reply.<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >(yes 41k was obviously a typo)<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >About RF noise though, ADAT lightpipe shouldn't be sensitive to
                              > that, <BR>
                              > >since it's optical. Anyways, I did try to simplify the system by
                              > just <BR>
                              > >putting two OASYS side by side synched through BNC, having one
                              > master <BR>
                              > >and one slave. The cable was laying up front, far from the rest
                              > of <BR>
                              > >the studio cables behind.  The problem still happened  :(.  (As a
                              > <BR>
                              > >side note, my cables are also tied-wrapped now, it's much less a
                              > mess <BR>
                              > >than it was before, 5 months ago, I had my lesson when I had to
                              > <BR>
                              > >completely change my cabling setup  :)  )<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >Yes that's a nice setup if it would just work (like it's supposed
                              > to <BR>
                              > >by design anyways).  There's 4 computers, 3 with OASYS, one with
                              > a <BR>
                              > >pulsar/scope system which act as the mixing center, and one of
                              > the <BR>
                              > >OASYS comp also has a pulsar board (I had one left, decided to
                              > use it <BR>
                              > >to get the additionnal driver interfaces in that machine, like
                              > GSIF, <BR>
                              > >and more IO between that comp and the center node).  Everything
                              > is <BR>
                              > >working right except for this.  Mind you at first I thought <BR>
                              > >everything was ok, it's only while working that I discovered this
                              > <BR>
                              > >bug.  At first I thought that was Windows which was freezing <BR>
                              > >randomly, but it couldn't be: the DSP processing on OASYS still
                              > goes <BR>
                              > >on.  That's when I tried to open the preference panel and watched
                              > it <BR>
                              > >while thinking, and I've noticed the frequency setting would jump
                              > <BR>
                              > >from 44.1 to 48 khz, and that was causing the audio skips...<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >--- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harris" <SCHARRIS@I...>
                              > <BR>
                              > >wrote:<BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> I had this problem on one of Macs with an Oasys ( as you say it
                              > <BR>
                              > >> would jump to 48K from 44.1k ( I assume 41k was a typo). I
                              > tried <BR>
                              > >> all kinds of things but I was able to reduce the problem by <BR>
                              > >> carefully moving any cables that were carrying power away from
                              > <BR>
                              > >> this adat and spdif cables. All I could reason was that there
                              > was <BR>
                              > >> some rf noise that was interfering with signal forcing the
                              > Oasys <BR>
                              > >> to lose clock. <BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> It was really annoying because in Cubase if I created sliced
                              > <BR>
                              > >> loopes using match and hit points the slices would resize and I
                              > <BR>
                              > >> would have to re-edit the audio segments lengths using the
                              > pencil <BR>
                              > >> tool and then have to reboot the whole system to get the clock
                              > <BR>
                              > >> working properly and then randomly the problem would reoccur.
                              > <BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> IT took a long time to sort this out but I did carefully tie
                              > the <BR>
                              > >> cables back and route the power cables and vga cables in a <BR>
                              > >> different directions. I'd give this a shot a simplify your
                              > setup <BR>
                              > >> temporarally to test. <BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> I have 2 lightpiped  Oasys and a Korg 1212- spdifed (if that's
                              > a <BR>
                              > >> word) and the problem would occur on the one problem machine
                              > even <BR>
                              > >> when connected in a simple configuration. <BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> The cable tieing solved it and I posted to the group at that
                              > time <BR>
                              > >> what I had found. <BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> Let me know how you make out but its worth a shot. That's one
                              > hell <BR>
                              > >> of system :-)<BR>
                              > >>   <BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                              > <BR>
                              > >> From: "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" <goa101@y...><BR>
                              > >> Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                              > >> Date:  Wed, 01 Jan 2003 04:29:14 -0000<BR>
                              > >> <BR>
                              > >> ><html><body><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><tt><BR>
                              > >> >First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about
                              > word <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >clock.  I have a multiple PC configuration (it shouldn't
                              > matter <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >anyway we're only interested in which WordClock device on the
                              > <BR>
                              > >> chain <BR><BR>
                              > >> >drives who).   All my PCs with OASYSes are slave to ADAT
                              > (so<BR>
                              > >they <BR>
                              > >> get <BR><BR>
                              > >> >their wclk through the lightpipe in) and they all receive
                              > their <BR>
                              > >> wclck <BR><BR>
                              > >> >from a Scope board on a single PC.  Yes the Scope is set as
                              > the <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >master (doh). <BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz,
                              > <BR>
                              > >> then <BR><BR>
                              > >> >back to 41khz.  This makes my whole setup unusable.  Before
                              > <BR>
                              > >> someone <BR><BR>
                              > >> >tells me it's the Scope clock that's jittery or something like
                              > <BR>
                              > >> that, <BR><BR>
                              > >> >impossible: another PC with a Pulsar board *NEVER* looses it's
                              > <BR>
                              > >> word <BR><BR>
                              > >> >clock like that and is driven too by the same master Scope
                              > board. <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >Plus, as an additionnal proof, I've tried several
                              > things:<BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >I have an ADAT external ADC that can act as a master too: if I
                              > <BR>
                              > >> set <BR><BR>
                              > >> >this converter to master, and let Scope slave to that (and
                              > <BR><BR>
                              > >> >also "foward" the clock to the OASYSes attached to it, which
                              > are <BR>
                              > >> set <BR><BR>
                              > >> >to slave too), the problem still happens, but the Scope and
                              > <BR>
                              > >> Pulsar <BR><BR>
                              > >> >PCs *NEVER* loose their synch, so it can't be the external <BR>
                              > >> converter <BR><BR>
                              > >> >that has too much jitter either.   <BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >As a final thing I've tried, is setting one of the OASYSes to
                              > <BR>
                              > >> Master, <BR><BR>
                              > >> >so that it drives the Scope (which then foward this clock to
                              > <BR>
                              > >> other <BR><BR>
                              > >> >OASYSes and the Pulsar).   Again, obviously the only OASYS
                              > set<BR>
                              > >to <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >Master never switch it's sampling frequency, but the others
                              > keep <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >doing it.   It seems that there's a bug in the OASYS that <BR>
                              > >> prevents it <BR><BR>
                              > >> >from synching correctly to wordclock through lightpipe (even
                              > <BR>
                              > >> spdif <BR><BR>
                              > >> >now if you continue to read).   Since one <BR><BR>
                              > >> >of the OASYSes is connected to the Scope board through SPDIF
                              > too, <BR>
                              > >> I <BR><BR>
                              > >> >then tried to make this one synch to SPDIF instead.  Same <BR>
                              > >> problem.  <BR><BR>
                              > >> >I tried switching cables too, checking for loose connections
                              > etc. <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >(obviously!!)   After spending so many hours trying to
                              > repro<BR>
                              > >and <BR>
                              > >> get <BR><BR>
                              > >> >rid of this damn bug, I'm out of options.  If it's not the<BR>
                              > >OASYS <BR>
                              > >> that <BR><BR>
                              > >> >is buggy, than it somehow isn't "happy" with *any* wordclock
                              > <BR>
                              > >> (spdif <BR><BR>
                              > >> >or adat) coming from a Creamware card (even if the card is
                              > only <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >fowarding (acting like a clock hub) a clock coming from
                              > another <BR>
                              > >> OASYS <BR><BR>
                              > >> >card!!).  <BR><BR>
                              > >> >Since the Scope PC has a pulsar board too, I've tried
                              > connecting <BR>
                              > >> some <BR><BR>
                              > >> >Oasyses to this other board, so <BR><BR>
                              > >> >it's not a specific board problem.  Also, like I said I tried
                              > <BR>
                              > >> making <BR><BR>
                              > >> >other masters in the chain, and nothing works.  At this
                              > point<BR>
                              > >the <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >only thing I haven't tried is using one OASYS as master and
                              > use <BR>
                              > >> the <BR><BR>
                              > >> >BNC wordclock to all other OASYS, and slave the rest of the
                              > gear <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >which doesnt have BNC (Scope & Pulsars ) through
                              > lightpipe. <BR>
                              > ><BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >Also, another bug I found incredibly annoying with OASYS is
                              > that <BR>
                              > >> the <BR><BR>
                              > >> >internal & external audio buses routing gets very easily
                              > messed <BR>
                              > >> up.  <BR><BR>
                              > >> >Change the clock a couple of time on a master, or make it pop
                              > the <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >error message "DSP processing exceeded sample period" and
                              > you're <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >totally hosed, you have to reboot *every OASYS PCs* !!
                              > Otherwise <BR>
                              > >> you <BR><BR>
                              > >> >have some channels that are muted, or suddenly the ADAT
                              > channels <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >appear halfway (the left channel and right channel aren't
                              > mapped <BR>
                              > >> to <BR><BR>
                              > >> >the same source label in the editor) between an ADAT and a
                              > SPDIF <BR>
                              > >> <BR><BR>
                              > >> >source in the editor, etc. etc.  Restarting the editor
                              > won't<BR>
                              > >do, <BR>
                              > >> you <BR><BR>
                              > >> >have to reboot.<BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >Can anyone help ?<BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >Happy new year...<BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> ></tt><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><br><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><BR>
                              > >> ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC><BR>
                              > >> ><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo!
                              > Groups <BR>
                              > >> Sponsor</b></font></td><BR>
                              > >> ></tr><BR>
                              > >> ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><BR>
                              > >> ><td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 <BR>
                              > >> cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-<BR>
                              > >> 2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a <BR>
                              > >> href="<a
                              > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroup
                              > ">http://rd.yahoo.com/M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroup</a>
                              > <BR>
                              > >> web/S=1705032144:HM/A=1328027/R=0/*<a
                              > href="http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;48">http://ad.doubleclick.net/c
                              > lk;48</a><BR>
                              > >> 70030;7586687;u?<a
                              > href="http://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?">http://www.a
                              > meriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?</a><BR>
                              > >> ad=Yahoo01"><img <BR>
                              > >> src="<a
                              > href="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/am/ameriquest/yahoo_300x2
                              > 5">http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/am/ameriquest/yahoo_300x25</
                              > a><BR>
                              > >> 0_lower.gif" alt="" width="300" height="250" <BR>
                              > >> border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td><BR>
                              > >> ></tr><BR>
                              > >> ><tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 <BR>
                              > >> src="<a
                              > href="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?">http://us.adserver.yahoo.com
                              > /l?</a><BR>
                              > >>
                              > M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1328027/rand=
                              > <BR>
                              > >> 888853197"></td></tr><BR>
                              > >> ></table><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><br><BR>
                              > >> ><tt><BR>
                              > >> >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready, <BR>
                              > >> willing,<BR><BR>
                              > >> >and able to handle all technical support questions. For <BR>
                              > >> information<BR><BR>
                              > >> >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS
                              > PCI <BR>
                              > >> FAQ:<BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> ><a <BR>
                              > >> href="<a
                              > href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                              > ">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support</a>
                              > <BR>
                              > >> .htm"><a
                              > href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                              > ">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support</a>
                              > <BR>
                              > >> .htm</a><BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical <BR>
                              > >> support.<BR><BR>
                              > >> ><BR><BR>
                              > >> >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the
                              > list, <BR>
                              > >> and<BR><BR>
                              > >> >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                              > <BR>
                              > >> Please<BR><BR>
                              > >> >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
                              > <BR>
                              > >> they<BR><BR>
                              > >> >like talking with people about the product, and may <BR>
                              > >> occasionally<BR><BR>
                              > >> >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all <BR>
                              > >> technical<BR><BR>
                              > >> >support questions.<BR><BR>
                              > >> ></tt><BR>
                              > >> ><br><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><br><BR>
                              > >> ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a <BR>
                              > >> href="<a
                              > href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info
                              > /terms/</a>">Yahoo! Terms of <BR>
                              > >> Service</a>.</tt><BR>
                              > >> ></br><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ></body></html><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > >> ><BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > ></tt>
                              > >
                              > ><br>
                              > >
                              > ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
                              > >
                              > ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
                              > ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
                              > ><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
                              > Sponsor</b></font></td>
                              > ></tr>
                              > ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
                              > ><td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0
                              > cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-
                              > 2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
                              > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroup
                              > web/S=1705032144:HM/A=1327985/R=0/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;48
                              > 70024;7586687;x?http://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?
                              > ad=Yahoo01"><img
                              > src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/am/ameriquest/yahoo_300x25
                              > 0_clock.gif" alt="" width="300" height="250"
                              > border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td>
                              > ></tr>
                              > ><tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
                              > src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
                              > M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1327985/rand=
                              > 273702828"></td></tr>
                              > ></table>
                              > >
                              > ><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
                              > >
                              > >
                              > ><br>
                              > ><tt>
                              > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready,
                              > willing,<BR>
                              > >and able to handle all technical support questions. For
                              > information<BR>
                              > >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS PCI
                              > FAQ:<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > ><a
                              > href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                              > .htm">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                              > .htm</a><BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical
                              > support.<BR>
                              > ><BR>
                              > >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the list,
                              > and<BR>
                              > >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                              > Please<BR>
                              > >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
                              > they<BR>
                              > >like talking with people about the product, and may
                              > occasionally<BR>
                              > >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all
                              > technical<BR>
                              > >support questions.<BR>
                              > ></tt>
                              > ><br>
                              > >
                              > ><br>
                              > ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
                              > href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
                              > Service</a>.</tt>
                              > ></br>
                              > >
                              > ></body></html>
                              > >
                              > >
                            • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                              Here is an update to what I think about this bug, along with a recap/bug report. Anyone has comments, clues ? Dan, Brandon ? A Korg system sw engineer would
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 3, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Here is an update to what I think about this bug, along with a
                                recap/bug report.
                                Anyone has comments, clues ? Dan, Brandon ? A Korg system sw
                                engineer would be great.

                                //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
                                /////////////////////////////////////
                                // OASYS-PCI WORD CLOCK JITTER BUG
                                ===============================

                                Description:
                                ------------
                                -While an application is using a STREAM wave device
                                (which is routed somewhere via the
                                editor of course), or a card's output device, and the
                                card is slaved to an incoming
                                word clock, the card will randomly cease it's output
                                for a couple of seconds: this
                                happens when the engine & editor seem to get a notice
                                (?) that the word clock has changed
                                (if you leave the [OASYS
                                editor>Edit>Preferences>MIDI/Global tab] Opened and check the
                                word clock setting, you can see the radio button
                                going from 44.1 to 48 khz and then
                                quickly go back to 44.1 (if the external incoming
                                clock is 44.1 obviously) ).
                                However, checking the [OASYS Wave Device
                                Config>Diagnostic] tab at the same time shows
                                no corresponding clock jitter (and we know the clock
                                is clean, by checking with other
                                external devices). This has been tried in multiple
                                configs, having even another
                                OASYS as the master.



                                Repro steps:
                                ------------
                                -Open the OASYS editor, create a multi, open some
                                stereo Streams INPUTs on the channel
                                strips, route them where you want (make sure you route
                                them and not leave them OFF!),
                                but make sure you can monitor (with your ears) the
                                output of the card too.

                                -Open Edit>Preferences>MIDI/Global setting, and set the
                                word clock to SLAVE (ie: not
                                internal) to any device driving your OASYS. Of
                                course, have an external device,
                                sending the word clock at 44.1 kHz as master,
                                connected to the selected input:
                                ADAT lightpipe, SPDIF or BNC word clock input.

                                -Leave this panel opened to be able to check the 44.1 -
                                48 khz radio button.

                                -Have an application (or multiple applications) open
                                the streams you routed in the editor,
                                like multiple winamp players (configured to output to
                                different outputs obviously),
                                or your favorite sequencer/multitracker with multiple
                                audio track and even have some
                                open the card's outputs directly...

                                -Start playback (never mind the cacophony)

                                -Open the OASYS Wave Device Config: The status of the
                                streams and output opened
                                should be at "playing", blue. Click on the diagnostic
                                button, the DMA engine should
                                be active. Alt-tab to the OASYS editor to see the
                                preference panel with the global
                                (word clock) setting tab, and also arrange your screen
                                so you can see the diagnostic
                                panel open at the same time for convenience.

                                -Wait, the bug is random. The audio will suddenly cut,
                                and at that time you should see
                                the clock radio button switch positions from 44.1 kHz
                                to 48 kHz and back to 44.1 kHz.
                                The processing will then resume. At that time, during
                                the bug, note that the very small
                                clock jitters (44100 -> 44500) that can appear
                                sometimes in the diag panel doesn't match
                                the bug occurence, and you can see (this is logical)
                                the DMA engine stop and the engine
                                going to idle for a short lapse of time, before audio
                                processing finally resume.


                                Status: Showstopper!! ;-)
                                -------

                                Comments:
                                ---------


                                -The bug happens even when the external clock to which the card is
                                slaved is perfect,
                                not dirty. In short, it has nothing to do with the actual clock
                                being fed to the card.
                                ( No other device display the "sudden word clock frequency jump from
                                44.1 to 48khz" than OASYS,
                                and this happen even in a simple config where a single OASYS in
                                master is driving another
                                OASYS (which will display the bug). In fact, internally, at the
                                board level itself, I'm not
                                convinced that it really switch the frequency! Read further )


                                -Repro: The bug only happens when the DMA Engine of the card is
                                active.

                                [ ie: If a
                                program has opened an OASYS wave device, whether it is a STREAM or a
                                card OUTPUT (technically,
                                both type of audio streams gets exactly the same treatment by the
                                driver (not the kernel mode one,
                                the wave driver), it must go accross the PCI bus to the card. After
                                that, on the card itself,
                                the streams get routed depending on the settings written by the
                                OASYS
                                editor (& engine) (code/routing downloaded to the card). Direct
                                outputs get mixed with everything
                                else that is routed to that output (even though multiple programs
                                can't open the same windows
                                wave device, it is possible for the OASYS editor to direct sound to
                                the same output as a
                                program is using through the wave device driver).
                                Note that I haven't said MIDI, because I think midi is written
                                directly with the CPU, "a la PIO"
                                to the card. This explains why a lot of incoming midi raises the
                                CPU usage meter (well, partly:
                                the other part is the processing of the midi messages). This is
                                probably necessary because midi
                                messages are delivered asynchronously (without a word clock like for
                                audio) and has no time stamps,
                                so it's not possible to bulk them together, and I guess it would be
                                pretty stupid to use the DMA to
                                start a xfer everytime a midi msg must be delivered... ]

                                In fact, if you're not using any of the above scenarios, the
                                Edit>Preferences>Global Tab
                                won't show a switch in word clock frequency even when you
                                really *do* change it on the master device. However, *it is clear*
                                that the card still has
                                correctly acknowledged the change since, there's no POP after that
                                and audio routed in
                                and out of the card's I/Os is perfectly clean (this is logical,
                                since the card must be PLL locked
                                to the incoming clock when moving sample data, so any change in the
                                clock should be seamless ? )

                                Now why, when using the streams/output from programs (ie: the DMA
                                engine is active), does
                                the Edit>Preferences>Global Tab> suddenly shows a jump in the word
                                clock frequency when
                                the card is slaved to the incoming clock ? (The bug)
                                One peculiarity is that if you look in WaveDevice Config Panel>
                                Diagnostic>, when the bug happens,
                                this panel doesn't reflect at all this change in incoming clock
                                frequency! Maybe it's just missed
                                by the screen refresh of the Diag panel, but I doubt it, this
                                correlate with my theory, where
                                on the HW side, there's not problem with the word clock (see in
                                preceding paragraph when I talk
                                about everything working without clicks and pops when not using the
                                DMA engine).

                                SO, anyways, it really does seem like it could be just a driver bug,
                                propagated to the engine:
                                the engine wrongfully gets a signal that the clock has changed...
                                but why would it need that
                                (such a signal)
                                anyway beside for preference panel data update ? Read further, but I
                                think that's the only reason,
                                to keep the engine local data structure
                                in synch with the actual state of the HW (a kind
                                physical_device_struct with data mirroring the
                                state of the HW, but not necessarily at the kernel ring (vxd?) but
                                at the engine layer, which
                                I think is in user space), which in turn sends back a signal to shut
                                the processing/output of the HW
                                a couple of seconds to update it's internal data structures (the
                                value of the word clock) which I
                                see as only being usefull for display in Edit>Preferences>Global
                                Tab> and nothing else !

                                Well that's my suspicion
                                anyways: whether the card is using it's internal clock (read: on the
                                board itself, it takes
                                the clock from one of it's crystal * multiplier switched to whatever
                                value the engine has
                                switched it to (that is to generate 44.1, or 48 khz)) or the
                                external one, it doesnt matter
                                on the hw board itself: the DMA frontend collect the sample packets
                                at regular intervals accross
                                the PCI bus from locked memory pages, and then fowards them to the
                                DSP cluster which process them
                                (copy to output or whatever) through the hw *at the rate* directed
                                by the clock on the board:
                                the layout regarding the clock source (not physical, just a general
                                block diagram)
                                should simply be something like this on the HW:

                                (I'm not sure if this will look ok as ascii drawing)





                                crystal with |MUX between ADAT transponder/stream|
                                inverter feedback loop |de-serializer, BNC and spdif |
                                | +-----------------------------------+
                                | |
                                | | V
                                | |external word clck
                                | +----------
                                (multiplier)<--- ctrl |
                                V (give a factor |
                                | to have 44.1 or |
                                | 48 khz) |
                                | |
                                internal word clck |
                                | |
                                V v
                                (---MUX-------------------------------)<---Ctrl toggle (master/slave)
                                |
                                |
                                |
                                V
                                Final word clock to use


                                Everything logically points to that: that's why if you don't set
                                Cakewalk sample frequency to match
                                the one that OASYS is using, it will feed too much (or too little)
                                samples to the card, and the audio
                                rate will get pitched up or pitched down by +- ~8%. Also, this
                                correlates with the discussion in
                                the OASYS PCI FAQ about sample playback synchronization: you can set
                                free wheel and everything will
                                be fine (as long as the start of the sample playback is correctly
                                synchronized, obviously, but that's
                                a matter of timecode which can be delivered to the application by a
                                number of different ways:
                                I will talk about ASIO 2.0 timecode below). That's also in line
                                with the possibility of delaying
                                sample playback start and synch a bunch of sample output starts
                                together.

                                So, why would the board need to keep the engine updated about the
                                incoming clock besides consistency
                                of the UI when changing settings ? In fact, I see two scenarios
                                only that needs the card to
                                write back accross the PCI bus: while recording, and when the ASIO
                                2.0 driver is opened, the client
                                is expecting ASIO 2.0 TimeCode, and the OASYS has incoming ADAT
                                TimeCode going through the 9 pin
                                connector...

                                //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
                                /////////////////////////////////////

                                --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Goa303 <goa101@y...>"
                                <goa101@y...> wrote:
                                > First let's get rid of the basics, I know everything about word
                                > clock. I have a multiple PC configuration (it shouldn't matter
                                > anyway we're only interested in which WordClock device on the chain
                                > drives who). All my PCs with OASYSes are slave to ADAT (so they
                                get
                                > their wclk through the lightpipe in) and they all receive their
                                wclck
                                > from a Scope board on a single PC. Yes the Scope is set as the
                                > master (doh).
                                >
                                > Randomly, one of the OASYS will loose synch, switch to 48khz, then
                                > back to 41khz. This makes my whole setup unusable. Before someone
                                > tells me it's the Scope clock that's jittery or something like
                                that,
                                > impossible: another PC with a Pulsar board *NEVER* looses it's word
                                > clock like that and is driven too by the same master Scope board.
                                > Plus, as an additionnal proof, I've tried several things:
                                >
                                > I have an ADAT external ADC that can act as a master too: if I set
                                > this converter to master, and let Scope slave to that (and
                                > also "foward" the clock to the OASYSes attached to it, which are
                                set
                                > to slave too), the problem still happens, but the Scope and Pulsar
                                > PCs *NEVER* loose their synch, so it can't be the external
                                converter
                                > that has too much jitter either.
                                >
                                > As a final thing I've tried, is setting one of the OASYSes to
                                Master,
                                > so that it drives the Scope (which then foward this clock to other
                                > OASYSes and the Pulsar). Again, obviously the only OASYS set to
                                > Master never switch it's sampling frequency, but the others keep
                                > doing it. It seems that there's a bug in the OASYS that prevents
                                it
                                > from synching correctly to wordclock through lightpipe (even spdif
                                > now if you continue to read). Since one
                                > of the OASYSes is connected to the Scope board through SPDIF too, I
                                > then tried to make this one synch to SPDIF instead. Same problem.
                                > I tried switching cables too, checking for loose connections etc.
                                > (obviously!!) After spending so many hours trying to repro and
                                get
                                > rid of this damn bug, I'm out of options. If it's not the OASYS
                                that
                                > is buggy, than it somehow isn't "happy" with *any* wordclock (spdif
                                > or adat) coming from a Creamware card (even if the card is only
                                > fowarding (acting like a clock hub) a clock coming from another
                                OASYS
                                > card!!).
                                > Since the Scope PC has a pulsar board too, I've tried connecting
                                some
                                > Oasyses to this other board, so
                                > it's not a specific board problem. Also, like I said I tried
                                making
                                > other masters in the chain, and nothing works. At this point the
                                > only thing I haven't tried is using one OASYS as master and use the
                                > BNC wordclock to all other OASYS, and slave the rest of the gear
                                > which doesnt have BNC (Scope & Pulsars ) through lightpipe.
                                >
                                > Also, another bug I found incredibly annoying with OASYS is that
                                the
                                > internal & external audio buses routing gets very easily messed
                                up.
                                > Change the clock a couple of time on a master, or make it pop the
                                > error message "DSP processing exceeded sample period" and you're
                                > totally hosed, you have to reboot *every OASYS PCs* !! Otherwise
                                you
                                > have some channels that are muted, or suddenly the ADAT channels
                                > appear halfway (the left channel and right channel aren't mapped to
                                > the same source label in the editor) between an ADAT and a SPDIF
                                > source in the editor, etc. etc. Restarting the editor won't do,
                                you
                                > have to reboot.
                                >
                                > Can anyone help ?
                                >
                                > Happy new year...
                              • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                                the diagram: (hopefully this will be more readable) ..................................................................... .crystal with.............|MUX
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 3, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  the diagram: (hopefully this will be more readable)

                                  .....................................................................
                                  .crystal with.............|MUX between ADAT transponder/stream|......
                                  inverter feedback loop....|de-serializer, BNC and spdif.......|......
                                  ..|.......................+-----------------------------------+......
                                  ..|..............................|...................................
                                  ..|.......................|......V...................................
                                  ..|.......................|external word clck........................
                                  ..|.......................+----------................................
                                  (multiplier)<--- ctrl............|...................................
                                  ..V..........(give a factor......|...................................
                                  ..|...........to have 44.1 or....|...................................
                                  ..|...........48 khz)............|...................................
                                  ..|..............................|...................................
                                  internal word clck...............|...................................
                                  ..|..............................|...................................
                                  ..V..............................v...................................
                                  (---MUX-------------------------------)<---Ctrl toggle (master/slave)
                                  ....|................................................................
                                  ....|................................................................
                                  ....|................................................................
                                  ....V................................................................
                                  ..Final word clock to use............................................
                                  .....................................................................
                                • Scott Harris
                                  I read through this post and deciphered what I could ( you have a far greater understanding of the mechanics) but I have a question. If this is a bug at that
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 3, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I read through this post and deciphered what I could ( you have a
                                    far greater understanding of the mechanics) but I have a question.
                                    If this is a bug at that driver level why don't all 3 of your
                                    Oasys cards display the same behaviour? Could it be that one of
                                    the Oasys cards is less tolerant to variations or one of your
                                    computers is outputting a lot of internal noise and interferring
                                    with the card?

                                    What happens when you move the misbehaving card to another
                                    computer? Does it still behave the same way? Apologies if you
                                    answered this in a previous post. Since I had the same problems on
                                    a Mac I am interested in seeing how this is resolved.

                                    Scott




                                    ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                                    From: "Goa303 <goa101@...>" <goa101@...>
                                    Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:12:29 -0000

                                    ><html><body>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    ><tt>
                                    >the diagram: (hopefully this will be more readable)<BR>
                                    ><BR>
                                    >..................................................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >.crystal with.............|MUX between ADAT
                                    transponder/stream|......<BR>
                                    >inverter feedback loop....|de-serializer, BNC and
                                    spdif.......|......<BR>
                                    >..|.......................+-----------------------------------
                                    +......<BR>
                                    >..|..............................|................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >..|.......................|......V................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >..|.......................|external word
                                    clck........................<BR>
                                    >..|.......................+----------
                                    ................................<BR>
                                    >(multiplier)<---
                                    ctrl............|...................................<BR>
                                    >..V..........(give a
                                    factor......|...................................<BR>
                                    >..|...........to have 44.1
                                    or....|...................................<BR>
                                    >..|...........48
                                    khz)............|...................................<BR>
                                    >..|..............................|................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >internal word
                                    clck...............|...................................<BR>
                                    >..|..............................|................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >..V..............................v................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >(---MUX-------------------------------)<---Ctrl toggle
                                    (master/slave)<BR>
                                    >....|.............................................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >....|.............................................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >....|.............................................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >....V.............................................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    >..Final word clock to
                                    use............................................<BR>
                                    >..................................................................
                                    ...<BR>
                                    ><BR>
                                    ><BR>
                                    ><BR>
                                    ></tt>
                                    >
                                    ><br>
                                    >
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                                    ><br>
                                    ><tt>
                                    >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR>
                                    ><BR>
                                    >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR>
                                    ><BR>
                                    >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready,
                                    willing,<BR>
                                    >and able to handle all technical support questions. For
                                    information<BR>
                                    >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS PCI
                                    FAQ:<BR>
                                    ><BR>
                                    ><a
                                    href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                    .htm">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                    .htm</a><BR>
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                                    >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical
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                                    >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the list,
                                    and<BR>
                                    >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                                    Please<BR>
                                    >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
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                                    ></body></html>
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                                    >
                                  • Alex Kitaen <akitaen@hotmail.com>
                                    I don t have any hard info, so this is just speculation... I can usually reproduce the bug at will on one of my machines, and I can also avoid it by reducing
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jan 3, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      I don't have any hard info, so this is just speculation... I can
                                      usually reproduce the bug at will on one of my machines, and I can
                                      also avoid it by reducing the load on my machine. I have no reason
                                      to believe it has anything to do with the actual clock the Oasys is
                                      fed.

                                      (Hmmm, trying to reproduce it just now and I crashed the editor with
                                      an illegal instruction error and periodic audio glitches, I was just
                                      running a single stereo audio in with 3 stereo compressor inserts
                                      (lots of oasys meter updates ie oasys pci traffic to driver + driver
                                      video traffic + feeding the oasys across the pci bus). Also moderate
                                      sequencer traffic so timer interrupts + serial communication. Video
                                      card is a matrox g400, bus mastering off, dual head with full
                                      acceleration. On this 440bx chipset machine (asus p3bf 500Mhz p3),
                                      oasys can be touchy but with care and attention it works very well.

                                      I usually have a DMA Error rate on this machine that bounces up
                                      around 25 under general work conditions (ie I can keep it lower if
                                      that was the goal but not the way I choose to work). This rate is
                                      considerably higher than an external Oasys machine. I can 'feel'
                                      when Oasys things start to go south; the sequencer stumbles when I
                                      move the mouse, Oasys meters (generally really fast if there are just
                                      a few) aren't as fast. It's like i/o is just colliding and retrying
                                      and everythings getting backed up. It usually recovers after a
                                      stumbly second, and while it stumbles Oasys DMA errors really jump,
                                      40, 60, rare worst case up to 120.

                                      BTW, my sequencer is vst, and on this machine Oasys is not the vst
                                      output device, that's a frontier Dakota+Montana, I feel this one has
                                      a very lightweight driver, but it's an I/O monster (34 channels each
                                      way), it probably figures into the whole PCI traffic picture
                                      significantly. So Oasys is really treated as an external device on
                                      this box.

                                      I always record 44.1. When I see the 48K switch panel, I'm under the
                                      impression that this message is coming from VST in response to a
                                      Windows sound manager event. I have always felt that the problem
                                      originated with the Oasys (the DMA errors are pegged when it
                                      switches), but then if I recall Cubase pops the error message. Maybe
                                      cubase was even changing the Dakota settings to 48K in response to a
                                      windows sound manager change? There was something like this that
                                      made me lock the Dakota's sample rate to 44.1, so I still get the
                                      message panel in vst about the rate change, but I have prevented the
                                      actual vst output card from changing.

                                      If that all makes sense, perhaps it helps explain my theory: I
                                      wonder if the failure could be a side effect of the Oasys PCI bus
                                      controller error recovery / reset and its impact upon the the
                                      driver's interaction with the system sound manager. Something crazy
                                      like "if the driver doesn't provide enough data for the current sound
                                      frame, switch to a smaller frame / higher sample rate". I think it's
                                      all about bus traffic and nothing about your actual clock. The Oasys
                                      PCI bus controller is a strange motorola DSP that has always given
                                      driver writers fits with its bugs and has been responsible for plenty
                                      of delayed drivers, incompatibilities and failed products and
                                      companies.

                                      Are the only fellows that see this problem guys with multiple sound
                                      cards? What application informs you of the error? What is your
                                      mobo/chipset/cpu?

                                      good luck!
                                    • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                                      It happens to all cards, it s not specific to one. I can eleminate the problem for one card by putting it in master. I think not a lot of people are reporting
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jan 3, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        It happens to all cards, it's not specific to one. I can eleminate
                                        the problem for one card by putting it in master. I think not a lot
                                        of people are reporting this problem because:

                                        -most run the OASYS as master OR
                                        -they don't use sw stream/sw IOs (they send stuff to the card through
                                        the HW IOs, from another computer for example, so the DMA is never
                                        used) OR
                                        -if they do they slave to 48 kHz (the bug doesn't show up when the
                                        OASYS is slaved to that freq).

                                        --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harris" <SCHARRIS@I...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > I read through this post and deciphered what I could ( you have a
                                        > far greater understanding of the mechanics) but I have a question.
                                        > If this is a bug at that driver level why don't all 3 of your
                                        > Oasys cards display the same behaviour? Could it be that one of
                                        > the Oasys cards is less tolerant to variations or one of your
                                        > computers is outputting a lot of internal noise and interferring
                                        > with the card?
                                        >
                                        > What happens when you move the misbehaving card to another
                                        > computer? Does it still behave the same way? Apologies if you
                                        > answered this in a previous post. Since I had the same problems on
                                        > a Mac I am interested in seeing how this is resolved.
                                        >
                                        > Scott
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                                        > From: "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" <goa101@y...>
                                        > Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:12:29 -0000
                                        >
                                        > ><html><body>
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > ><tt>
                                        > >the diagram: (hopefully this will be more readable)<BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > >..................................................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >.crystal with.............|MUX between ADAT
                                        > transponder/stream|......<BR>
                                        > >inverter feedback loop....|de-serializer, BNC and
                                        > spdif.......|......<BR>
                                        > >..|.......................+-----------------------------------
                                        > +......<BR>
                                        > >..|..............................|................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >..|.......................|......V................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >..|.......................|external word
                                        > clck........................<BR>
                                        > >..|.......................+----------
                                        > ................................<BR>
                                        > >(multiplier)<---
                                        > ctrl............|...................................<BR>
                                        > >..V..........(give a
                                        > factor......|...................................<BR>
                                        > >..|...........to have 44.1
                                        > or....|...................................<BR>
                                        > >..|...........48
                                        > khz)............|...................................<BR>
                                        > >..|..............................|................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >internal word
                                        > clck...............|...................................<BR>
                                        > >..|..............................|................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >..V..............................v................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >(---MUX-------------------------------)<---Ctrl toggle
                                        > (master/slave)<BR>
                                        > >....|.............................................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >....|.............................................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >....|.............................................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >....V.............................................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > >..Final word clock to
                                        > use............................................<BR>
                                        > >..................................................................
                                        > ...<BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > ></tt>
                                        > >
                                        > ><br>
                                        > >
                                        > ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
                                        > >
                                        > ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
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                                        > 2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
                                        > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroup
                                        > web/S=1705032144:HM/A=1327985/R=0/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;48
                                        > 70024;7586687;x?http://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?
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                                        > ><tt>
                                        > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready,
                                        > willing,<BR>
                                        > >and able to handle all technical support questions. For
                                        > information<BR>
                                        > >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS PCI
                                        > FAQ:<BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > ><a
                                        > href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                        > .htm">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                        > .htm</a><BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical
                                        > support.<BR>
                                        > ><BR>
                                        > >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the list,
                                        > and<BR>
                                        > >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                                        > Please<BR>
                                        > >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
                                        > they<BR>
                                        > >like talking with people about the product, and may
                                        > occasionally<BR>
                                        > >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all
                                        > technical<BR>
                                        > >support questions.<BR>
                                        > ></tt>
                                        > ><br>
                                        > >
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                                      • Scott Harris
                                        INteresting. As a test I setup an Oasys (Mac hosted) as slave at 44.1Khz getting its clock through a dual adat mixer which in turn was receiving clock trough
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jan 3, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          INteresting. As a test I setup an Oasys (Mac hosted) as slave at
                                          44.1Khz getting its clock through a dual adat mixer which in turn
                                          was receiving clock trough the adat inputs driven by Cubase with a
                                          second Oasys acting as a master.

                                          The slaved Oasys was running an Oasys synth with 4 stereo streams
                                          active as I was hosting vstis in Cubase on the slave and sending
                                          to the streams and was playing midi material coming from both its
                                          host computer and input through midi via the second master
                                          computer using the muli record option in Cubase.

                                          I ran this all day and didn't get one hiccup. The slave was a MAc.
                                          I am going to do the reverse and set the former slave to Master
                                          (its PC) and reverse the process and let you know what I find.

                                          The Mac hosted Oasys seems solid.

                                          Scott




                                          ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                                          From: "Goa303 <goa101@...>" <goa101@...>
                                          Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:12:22 -0000

                                          ><html><body>
                                          >
                                          >
                                          ><tt>
                                          >It happens to all cards, it's not specific to one. I can
                                          eleminate <BR>
                                          >the problem for one card by putting it in master.  I think not a
                                          lot <BR>
                                          >of people are reporting this problem because:<BR>
                                          ><BR>
                                          >-most run the OASYS as master OR<BR>
                                          >-they don't use sw stream/sw IOs  (they send stuff to the card
                                          through<BR>
                                          > the HW IOs, from another computer for example, so the DMA is
                                          never  <BR>
                                          >used)  OR<BR>
                                          >-if they do they slave to 48 kHz (the bug doesn't show up when
                                          the <BR>
                                          >OASYS is slaved to that freq).<BR>
                                          ><BR>
                                          >--- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harris" <SCHARRIS@I...>
                                          <BR>
                                          >wrote:<BR>
                                          >> I read through this post and deciphered what I could ( you have
                                          a <BR>
                                          >> far greater understanding of the mechanics) but I have a
                                          question. <BR>
                                          >> If this is a bug at that driver level why don't all 3 of your
                                          <BR>
                                          >> Oasys cards display the same behaviour? Could it be that one of
                                          <BR>
                                          >> the Oasys cards is less tolerant to variations or one of your
                                          <BR>
                                          >> computers is outputting a lot of internal noise and
                                          interferring <BR>
                                          >> with the card?<BR>
                                          >> <BR>
                                          >> What happens when you move the misbehaving card to another <BR>
                                          >> computer? Does it still behave the same way? Apologies if you
                                          <BR>
                                          >> answered this in a previous post. Since I had the same problems
                                          on <BR>
                                          >> a Mac I am interested in seeing how this is resolved. <BR>
                                          >> <BR>
                                          >> Scott<BR>
                                          >> <BR>
                                          >> <BR>
                                          >> <BR>
                                          >> <BR>
                                          >> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                                          <BR>
                                          >> From: "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" <goa101@y...><BR>
                                          >> Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                                          >> Date:  Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:12:29 -0000<BR>
                                          >> <BR>
                                          >> ><html><body><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><tt><BR>
                                          >> >the diagram: (hopefully this will be more readable)<BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >..................................................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >> >.crystal with.............|MUX between ADAT <BR>
                                          >> transponder/stream|......<BR><BR>
                                          >> >inverter feedback loop....|de-serializer, BNC and <BR>
                                          >> spdif.......|......<BR><BR>
                                          >> >..|.......................+-----------------------------------
                                          <BR>
                                          >> +......<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >..|..............................|................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >..|.......................|......V................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >> >..|.......................|external word <BR>
                                          >> clck........................<BR><BR>
                                          >> >..|.......................+----------<BR>
                                          >> ................................<BR><BR>
                                          >> >(multiplier)<--- <BR>
                                          >> ctrl............|...................................<BR><BR>
                                          >> >..V..........(give a <BR>
                                          >> factor......|...................................<BR><BR>
                                          >> >..|...........to have 44.1 <BR>
                                          >> or....|...................................<BR><BR>
                                          >> >..|...........48 <BR>
                                          >> khz)............|...................................<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >..|..............................|................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >> >internal word <BR>
                                          >> clck...............|...................................<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >..|..............................|................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >..V..............................v................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >> >(---MUX-------------------------------)<---Ctrl toggle <BR>
                                          >> (master/slave)<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >....|.............................................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >....|.............................................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >....|.............................................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >....V.............................................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >> >..Final word clock to <BR>
                                          >> use............................................<BR><BR>
                                          >>
                                          >..................................................................
                                          <BR>
                                          >> ...<BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >> ></tt><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><br><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><BR>
                                          >> ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC><BR>
                                          >> ><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo!
                                          Groups <BR>
                                          >> Sponsor</b></font></td><BR>
                                          >> ></tr><BR>
                                          >> ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><BR>
                                          >> ><td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 <BR>
                                          >> cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-<BR>
                                          >> 2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a <BR>
                                          >> href="<a
                                          href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroup
                                          ">http://rd.yahoo.com/M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroup</a>
                                          <BR>
                                          >> web/S=1705032144:HM/A=1327985/R=0/*<a
                                          href="http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;48">http://ad.doubleclick.net/c
                                          lk;48</a><BR>
                                          >> 70024;7586687;x?<a
                                          href="http://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?">http://www.a
                                          meriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?</a><BR>
                                          >> ad=Yahoo01"><img <BR>
                                          >> src="<a
                                          href="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/am/ameriquest/yahoo_300x2
                                          5">http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/am/ameriquest/yahoo_300x25</
                                          a><BR>
                                          >> 0_clock.gif" alt="" width="300" height="250" <BR>
                                          >> border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td><BR>
                                          >> ></tr><BR>
                                          >> ><tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 <BR>
                                          >> src="<a
                                          href="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?">http://us.adserver.yahoo.com
                                          /l?</a><BR>
                                          >>
                                          M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1327985/rand=
                                          <BR>
                                          >> 329870122"></td></tr><BR>
                                          >> ></table><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><br><BR>
                                          >> ><tt><BR>
                                          >> >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >> >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >> >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready, <BR>
                                          >> willing,<BR><BR>
                                          >> >and able to handle all technical support questions. For <BR>
                                          >> information<BR><BR>
                                          >> >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS
                                          PCI <BR>
                                          >> FAQ:<BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >> ><a <BR>
                                          >> href="<a
                                          href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                          ">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support</a>
                                          <BR>
                                          >> .htm"><a
                                          href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                          ">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support</a>
                                          <BR>
                                          >> .htm</a><BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >> >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical <BR>
                                          >> support.<BR><BR>
                                          >> ><BR><BR>
                                          >> >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the
                                          list, <BR>
                                          >> and<BR><BR>
                                          >> >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                                          <BR>
                                          >> Please<BR><BR>
                                          >> >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
                                          <BR>
                                          >> they<BR><BR>
                                          >> >like talking with people about the product, and may <BR>
                                          >> occasionally<BR><BR>
                                          >> >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all <BR>
                                          >> technical<BR><BR>
                                          >> >support questions.<BR><BR>
                                          >> ></tt><BR>
                                          >> ><br><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><br><BR>
                                          >> ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a <BR>
                                          >> href="<a
                                          href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info
                                          /terms/</a>">Yahoo! Terms of <BR>
                                          >> Service</a>.</tt><BR>
                                          >> ></br><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ></body></html><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          >> ><BR>
                                          ><BR>
                                          ></tt>
                                          >
                                          ><br>
                                          >
                                          ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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                                          2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a
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                                          web/S=1705032144:HM/A=1327985/R=0/*http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;48
                                          70024;7586687;x?http://www.ameriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?
                                          ad=Yahoo01"><img
                                          src="http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/am/ameriquest/yahoo_300x25
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                                          ><tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1
                                          src="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?
                                          M=234081.2821106.4184440.1925585/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1327985/rand=
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                                          ></table>
                                          >
                                          ><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->
                                          >
                                          >
                                          ><br>
                                          ><tt>
                                          >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR>
                                          ><BR>
                                          >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR>
                                          ><BR>
                                          >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready,
                                          willing,<BR>
                                          >and able to handle all technical support questions. For
                                          information<BR>
                                          >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS PCI
                                          FAQ:<BR>
                                          ><BR>
                                          ><a
                                          href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                          .htm">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                          .htm</a><BR>
                                          ><BR>
                                          >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical
                                          support.<BR>
                                          ><BR>
                                          >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the list,
                                          and<BR>
                                          >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                                          Please<BR>
                                          >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
                                          they<BR>
                                          >like talking with people about the product, and may
                                          occasionally<BR>
                                          >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all
                                          technical<BR>
                                          >support questions.<BR>
                                          ></tt>
                                          ><br>
                                          >
                                          ><br>
                                          ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a
                                          href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of
                                          Service</a>.</tt>
                                          ></br>
                                          >
                                          ></body></html>
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Dan Phillips
                                          ... I use Macs. However, I use an external clock as master, use streams, use 44.1 kHz, and have two OASYS PCI cards in different computers. I ve never had the
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jan 4, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Goa303 goa101@... writes:


                                            >It happens to all cards, it's not specific to one. I can eleminate
                                            >the problem for one card by putting it in master. I think not a lot
                                            >of people are reporting this problem because:
                                            >
                                            >-most run the OASYS as master OR
                                            >-they don't use sw stream/sw IOs (they send stuff to the card through
                                            > the HW IOs, from another computer for example, so the DMA is never
                                            >used) OR
                                            >-if they do they slave to 48 kHz (the bug doesn't show up when the
                                            >OASYS is slaved to that freq).

                                            I use Macs. However, I use an external clock as master, use streams,
                                            use 44.1 kHz, and have two OASYS PCI cards in different computers.
                                            I've never had the probablems that you describe.

                                            This is not to say that you don't have the problems, but just that my
                                            suspicion is that it is related to your particular setup.

                                            - Dan
                                          • Dan Phillips
                                            I haven t yet sorted through the entire post yet. However, please note that audio/MIDI programs, such as Cakewalk, Cubase, Logic etc. can change the sample
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jan 4, 2003
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I haven't yet sorted through the entire post yet.

                                              However, please note that audio/MIDI programs, such as Cakewalk, Cubase, Logic etc.
                                              can change the sample rate of audio cards directly. In other words, if the sample rate
                                              of the OASYS PCI is changing, it might be doing so because it was told to do so by the
                                              audio program.

                                              From your descriptions, it appears that an audio program was running at the same
                                              time. If this is the case, it might be interesting to repeat the tests using only the
                                              OASYS PCI editor, and see if the results were the same.

                                              - Dan
                                            • Dan Phillips
                                              ... The DMA engine is *always* active, regardless of whether an audio program is in use or not. If you see changes based on whether or not an audio program is
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jan 4, 2003
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Goa303 goa101@... writes:

                                                > -Repro: The bug only happens when the DMA Engine of the card is
                                                > active.

                                                The DMA engine is *always* active, regardless of whether an audio program
                                                is in use or not.

                                                If you see changes based on whether or not an audio program is in use,
                                                it might be good to look at what's happening on the software side of things.
                                                Audio software can change the sample rate of OASYS PCI
                                                directly, and thus may potentially be the source of the problem.

                                                > Note that I haven't said MIDI, because I think midi is written
                                                > directly with the CPU, "a la PIO" to the card.

                                                MIDI is also done via DMA, separately from the audio streams.

                                                > So, why would the board need to keep the engine updated about the
                                                > incoming clock besides consistency of the UI when changing settings?

                                                Various parts of some algorithms need to change depending on
                                                sample rate, as well.

                                                - Dan
                                              • mrfradd <rupertnixon@hotmail.com>
                                                Hello, I use a pc for my pc, and my setup runs at 48k with the clock synced to an external wordclock source, and I had exactly the same oscillating clock freq.
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Jan 5, 2003
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                                                  Hello,

                                                  I use a pc for my pc, and my setup runs at 48k with the clock synced
                                                  to an external wordclock source, and I had exactly the same
                                                  oscillating clock freq. problem 'until' I stopped using it in
                                                  standalone mode and started using it with logic - I haven't had any
                                                  problems since.... In fact, previously, the oasys editor was prone to
                                                  crashing fairly frequently when synced at 48k to either the adat or
                                                  spdif source (however not when using the internal clock at 48k) -
                                                  this has also been resolved by using it in conjuction with logic.

                                                  Have you tried swapping another of your cards with the problematic
                                                  one, to determine if the problem is unique to the card or the
                                                  computer?

                                                  Ru


                                                  > I use Macs. However, I use an external clock as master, use streams,
                                                  > use 44.1 kHz, and have two OASYS PCI cards in different computers.
                                                  > I've never had the probablems that you describe.
                                                  >
                                                  > This is not to say that you don't have the problems, but just that
                                                  my
                                                  > suspicion is that it is related to your particular setup.
                                                  >
                                                  > - Dan
                                                • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                                                  It could very well be PC specific, especially if it s a driver issue. Have you tried it yet ? Thank you, Steph. ... a
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Jan 9, 2003
                                                  • 0 Attachment
                                                    It could very well be PC specific, especially if it's a driver issue.
                                                    Have you tried it yet ?

                                                    Thank you,
                                                    Steph.

                                                    --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harris" <SCHARRIS@I...>
                                                    wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > INteresting. As a test I setup an Oasys (Mac hosted) as slave at
                                                    > 44.1Khz getting its clock through a dual adat mixer which in turn
                                                    > was receiving clock trough the adat inputs driven by Cubase with a
                                                    > second Oasys acting as a master.
                                                    >
                                                    > The slaved Oasys was running an Oasys synth with 4 stereo streams
                                                    > active as I was hosting vstis in Cubase on the slave and sending
                                                    > to the streams and was playing midi material coming from both its
                                                    > host computer and input through midi via the second master
                                                    > computer using the muli record option in Cubase.
                                                    >
                                                    > I ran this all day and didn't get one hiccup. The slave was a MAc.
                                                    > I am going to do the reverse and set the former slave to Master
                                                    > (its PC) and reverse the process and let you know what I find.
                                                    >
                                                    > The Mac hosted Oasys seems solid.
                                                    >
                                                    > Scott
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                                                    > From: "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" <goa101@y...>
                                                    > Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:12:22 -0000
                                                    >
                                                    > ><html><body>
                                                    > >
                                                    > >
                                                    > ><tt>
                                                    > >It happens to all cards, it's not specific to one. I can
                                                    > eleminate <BR>
                                                    > >the problem for one card by putting it in master.  I think not
                                                    a
                                                    > lot <BR>
                                                    > >of people are reporting this problem because:<BR>
                                                    > ><BR>
                                                    > >-most run the OASYS as master OR<BR>
                                                    > >-they don't use sw stream/sw IOs  (they send stuff to the card
                                                    > through<BR>
                                                    > > the HW IOs, from another computer for example, so the DMA is
                                                    > never  <BR>
                                                    > >used)  OR<BR>
                                                    > >-if they do they slave to 48 kHz (the bug doesn't show up when
                                                    > the <BR>
                                                    > >OASYS is slaved to that freq).<BR>
                                                    > ><BR>
                                                    > >--- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Harris" <SCHARRIS@I...>
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >wrote:<BR>
                                                    > >> I read through this post and deciphered what I could ( you have
                                                    > a <BR>
                                                    > >> far greater understanding of the mechanics) but I have a
                                                    > question. <BR>
                                                    > >> If this is a bug at that driver level why don't all 3 of your
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> Oasys cards display the same behaviour? Could it be that one of
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> the Oasys cards is less tolerant to variations or one of your
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> computers is outputting a lot of internal noise and
                                                    > interferring <BR>
                                                    > >> with the card?<BR>
                                                    > >> <BR>
                                                    > >> What happens when you move the misbehaving card to another <BR>
                                                    > >> computer? Does it still behave the same way? Apologies if you
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> answered this in a previous post. Since I had the same problems
                                                    > on <BR>
                                                    > >> a Mac I am interested in seeing how this is resolved. <BR>
                                                    > >> <BR>
                                                    > >> Scott<BR>
                                                    > >> <BR>
                                                    > >> <BR>
                                                    > >> <BR>
                                                    > >> <BR>
                                                    > >> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> From: "Goa303 <goa101@y...>" <goa101@y...><BR>
                                                    > >> Reply-To: oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                                                    > >> Date:  Fri, 03 Jan 2003 11:12:29 -0000<BR>
                                                    > >> <BR>
                                                    > >> ><html><body><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><tt><BR>
                                                    > >> >the diagram: (hopefully this will be more readable)<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >..................................................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >.crystal with.............|MUX between ADAT <BR>
                                                    > >> transponder/stream|......<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >inverter feedback loop....|de-serializer, BNC and <BR>
                                                    > >> spdif.......|......<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >..|.......................+-----------------------------------
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> +......<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >..|..............................|................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >..|.......................|......V................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >..|.......................|external word <BR>
                                                    > >> clck........................<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >..|.......................+----------<BR>
                                                    > >> ................................<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >(multiplier)<--- <BR>
                                                    > >> ctrl............|...................................<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >..V..........(give a <BR>
                                                    > >> factor......|...................................<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >..|...........to have 44.1 <BR>
                                                    > >> or....|...................................<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >..|...........48 <BR>
                                                    > >> khz)............|...................................<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >..|..............................|................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >internal word <BR>
                                                    > >> clck...............|...................................<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >..|..............................|................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >..V..............................v................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >(---MUX-------------------------------)<---Ctrl toggle <BR>
                                                    > >> (master/slave)<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >....|.............................................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >....|.............................................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >....|.............................................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >....V.............................................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >..Final word clock to <BR>
                                                    > >> use............................................<BR><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > >..................................................................
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> ...<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ></tt><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><br><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| --><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2><BR>
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                                                    > >> Sponsor</b></font></td><BR>
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                                                    > >> cellspacing=0> <tr> <td align=center><font face=arial size=-<BR>
                                                    > >> 2>ADVERTISEMENT</font><br><a <BR>
                                                    > >> href="<a
                                                    > href="http://rd.yahoo.com/M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroup
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                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> web/S=1705032144:HM/A=1327985/R=0/*<a
                                                    > href="http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;48">http://ad.doubleclick.net/c
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                                                    > >> 70024;7586687;x?<a
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                                                    > meriquestmortgage.com/welcome.html?</a><BR>
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                                                    > 5">http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/am/ameriquest/yahoo_300x25</
                                                    > a><BR>
                                                    > >> 0_clock.gif" alt="" width="300" height="250" <BR>
                                                    > >> border="0"></a></td></tr></table></td><BR>
                                                    > >> ></tr><BR>
                                                    > >> ><tr><td><img alt="" width=1 height=1 <BR>
                                                    > >> src="<a
                                                    > href="http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?">http://us.adserver.yahoo.com
                                                    > /l?</a><BR>
                                                    > >>
                                                    > M=234081.2814790.4175286.1925585/D=egroupmail/S=:HM/A=1327985/rand=
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> 329870122"></td></tr><BR>
                                                    > >> ></table><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| --><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><br><BR>
                                                    > >> ><tt><BR>
                                                    > >> >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >Contacting Korg Technical Support<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >Korg's world-wide network of Korg Distributors is ready, <BR>
                                                    > >> willing,<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >and able to handle all technical support questions. For <BR>
                                                    > >> information<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >on contacting their tech support departments, see the OASYS
                                                    > PCI <BR>
                                                    > >> FAQ:<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><a <BR>
                                                    > >> href="<a
                                                    > href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                                    > ">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support</a>
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> .htm"><a
                                                    > href="http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support
                                                    > ">http://www.korg.com/oasys_pci_faq_html/oasys_pci_tech_support</a>
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> .htm</a><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >This mailing list, however, is not a forum for technical <BR>
                                                    > >> support.<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >Members of the Korg R&D product development team read the
                                                    > list, <BR>
                                                    > >> and<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >enjoy participating in discussions as their schedules permit.
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> Please<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >note that these are not technical support personnel. Much as
                                                    > <BR>
                                                    > >> they<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >like talking with people about the product, and may <BR>
                                                    > >> occasionally<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >offer assistance, they unfortunately cannot answer all <BR>
                                                    > >> technical<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> >support questions.<BR><BR>
                                                    > >> ></tt><BR>
                                                    > >> ><br><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><br><BR>
                                                    > >> ><tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a <BR>
                                                    > >> href="<a
                                                    > href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">http://docs.yahoo.com/info
                                                    > /terms/</a>">Yahoo! Terms of <BR>
                                                    > >> Service</a>.</tt><BR>
                                                    > >> ></br><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ></body></html><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > >> ><BR>
                                                    > ><BR>
                                                    > ></tt>
                                                    > >
                                                    > ><br>
                                                    > >
                                                    > ><!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
                                                    > >
                                                    > ><table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>
                                                    > ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>
                                                    > ><td align=center><font size="-1" color=#003399><b>Yahoo! Groups
                                                    > Sponsor</b></font></td>
                                                    > ></tr>
                                                    > ><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>
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                                                  • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                                                    ... Yes, it happens on all my PC, if I follow the steps I have enumerated in my previous post. (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oasys-pci/message/12724) -Steph.
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Jan 9, 2003
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                                                      > Have you tried swapping another of your cards with the problematic
                                                      > one, to determine if the problem is unique to the card or the
                                                      > computer?

                                                      Yes, it happens on all my PC, if I follow the steps I have enumerated
                                                      in my previous post.
                                                      (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oasys-pci/message/12724)

                                                      -Steph.

                                                      --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, "mrfradd <rupertnixon@h...>"
                                                      <rupertnixon@h...> wrote:
                                                      > Hello,
                                                      >
                                                      > I use a pc for my pc, and my setup runs at 48k with the clock
                                                      synced
                                                      > to an external wordclock source, and I had exactly the same
                                                      > oscillating clock freq. problem 'until' I stopped using it in
                                                      > standalone mode and started using it with logic - I haven't had any
                                                      > problems since.... In fact, previously, the oasys editor was prone
                                                      to
                                                      > crashing fairly frequently when synced at 48k to either the adat or
                                                      > spdif source (however not when using the internal clock at 48k) -
                                                      > this has also been resolved by using it in conjuction with logic.
                                                      >
                                                      > Have you tried swapping another of your cards with the problematic
                                                      > one, to determine if the problem is unique to the card or the
                                                      > computer?
                                                      >
                                                      > Ru
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      > > I use Macs. However, I use an external clock as master, use
                                                      streams,
                                                      > > use 44.1 kHz, and have two OASYS PCI cards in different computers.
                                                      > > I've never had the probablems that you describe.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > This is not to say that you don't have the problems, but just
                                                      that
                                                      > my
                                                      > > suspicion is that it is related to your particular setup.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > - Dan
                                                    • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                                                      Thanks for the reply, Yes it happens only when programs are outputting audio to the card (via streams or outs, but between the host cpu and the pci card, it s
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Jan 9, 2003
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                                                        Thanks for the reply,

                                                        Yes it happens only when programs are outputting audio to the card
                                                        (via streams or outs, but between the host cpu and the pci card, it's
                                                        exactly the same thing).

                                                        Like I said in my previous post, it happens in very simple program
                                                        configuration, for example only using a simple winamp player that
                                                        uses a stream, or rebirth (both programs use only 2 wav outputs).

                                                        The problem doesn't seem to show itself when using standalone
                                                        configuration, but like I said, if you go into edit>preferences> the
                                                        radio button for clck frequency won't move (it doesn't update itself)
                                                        when the clock is really changed, when used in that standalone
                                                        config. This is probably not a bug, if I take into account your
                                                        other comment on my msg:

                                                        >> So, why would the board need to keep the engine updated about the
                                                        >> incoming clock besides consistency of the UI when changing
                                                        settings?

                                                        >Various parts of some algorithms need to change depending on
                                                        >sample rate, as well.

                                                        In that case, if no audio program are clients to any audio API of the
                                                        OASYS, then maybe the card never notifies the driver/engine/editor so
                                                        there's no update of the radio button in the editor (even though
                                                        everything on the card (fx, synths) now work at the new frequency.


                                                        --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, Dan Phillips <dan@k...> wrote:
                                                        > I haven't yet sorted through the entire post yet.
                                                        >
                                                        > However, please note that audio/MIDI programs, such as Cakewalk,
                                                        Cubase, Logic etc.
                                                        > can change the sample rate of audio cards directly. In other words,
                                                        if the sample rate
                                                        > of the OASYS PCI is changing, it might be doing so because it was
                                                        told to do so by the
                                                        > audio program.
                                                        >
                                                        > From your descriptions, it appears that an audio program was
                                                        running at the same
                                                        > time. If this is the case, it might be interesting to repeat the
                                                        tests using only the
                                                        > OASYS PCI editor, and see if the results were the same.
                                                        >
                                                        > - Dan
                                                      • Goa303 <goa101@yahoo.com>
                                                        ... So the diagnostic panel shows DMA idle when no audio is being transfered through DMA even though there s still DMAs going on (for MIDI then...) ? ...
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Jan 9, 2003
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                                                          > The DMA engine is *always* active, regardless of whether an audio
                                                          >program

                                                          So the diagnostic panel shows "DMA idle" when no audio is being
                                                          transfered through DMA even though there's still DMAs going on (for
                                                          MIDI then...) ?

                                                          > If you see changes based on whether or not an audio program is in
                                                          use,
                                                          > it might be good to look at what's happening on the software side
                                                          of things.
                                                          > Audio software can change the sample rate of OASYS PCI
                                                          > directly, and thus may potentially be the source of the problem.

                                                          Well in the simple repro steps, I use winamp mp3 player to strip down
                                                          the test/repro case to the bare minimum. I also tried using rebirth
                                                          which is similar obviously since it uses 1 stereo MME device. Both
                                                          these programs can only output at 44.1, there's no sample rate
                                                          settings.

                                                          Thanks,
                                                          -Steph.

                                                          --- In oasys-pci@yahoogroups.com, Dan Phillips <dan@k...> wrote:
                                                          > Goa303 goa101@y... writes:
                                                          >
                                                          > > -Repro: The bug only happens when the DMA Engine of the card is
                                                          > > active.
                                                          >
                                                          > The DMA engine is *always* active, regardless of whether an audio
                                                          program
                                                          > is in use or not.
                                                          >
                                                          > If you see changes based on whether or not an audio program is in
                                                          use,
                                                          > it might be good to look at what's happening on the software side
                                                          of things.
                                                          > Audio software can change the sample rate of OASYS PCI
                                                          > directly, and thus may potentially be the source of the problem.
                                                          >
                                                          > > Note that I haven't said MIDI, because I think midi is written
                                                          > > directly with the CPU, "a la PIO" to the card.
                                                          >
                                                          > MIDI is also done via DMA, separately from the audio streams.
                                                          >
                                                          > > So, why would the board need to keep the engine updated about the
                                                          > > incoming clock besides consistency of the UI when changing
                                                          settings?
                                                          >
                                                          > Various parts of some algorithms need to change depending on
                                                          > sample rate, as well.
                                                          >
                                                          > - Dan
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