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Logic Audio and Oasys/Windows problems?

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  • tas@adr.dk
    Hi, Got the Oasys PCI card one month ago. I am very impressed with the performance of Oasys, BUT it is not working with Logic. I am using the EASI MME driver,
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 5, 2000
      Hi,

      Got the Oasys PCI card one month ago.

      I am very impressed with the performance of Oasys, BUT it is not
      working with Logic.

      I am using the EASI MME driver, and have tried a lot of different
      configurations and consulted the danish Korg agent - without solving
      the problems.

      The system goes down very often. I get the following notice: Error
      while trying to syncronize Audio and Midi. Sample Rate 38281
      recognized. Check conflict between Logic Audio and external device".

      Audiorecordings are delayed. I have tried to compensate by adjusting
      input/output delay and latency and comparing a recorded clicktrack
      with the bars. But it is not working. Another problem is the
      wellknown clicks in the recorded material.

      Sometimes the Logic window shakes when i drag and drop a window in
      Oasys (I use Matrox dualhead with two monitors). Another syncronizing
      problem?

      When triggering a drumbeat in Oasys through a Logic sequence (midi
      tempo) the beat swings awefully (tempo goes up and down).

      Any ideas on how to solve the syncronizing- and click problems?

      The Korg guy I talk to says that Korg technicians run Logic with the
      ASIO driver. We have both tried everything, but its not possible to
      recognize the ASIO diver in Logic. Is it possible to hook Logic and
      Oasys up with ASIO, and how is it done?

      I have used Logic for years (with Audiowerk 8) and have been very
      satisfied, but these problems are driving me mad, and I am now
      panicing and considering Apple hardware despite the fact that my PC
      (PIII 733) is less than two month old. Is Mac better or can I make
      this PC-system work?

      Complicated stuff - hope you can help :)

      Tom
    • DeFeX
      Although i do not have an OASYS card yet some of those problems sound like similar ones suffered by pulsar users with a questionable chipset/PCI bus. ($$)
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 5, 2000
        Although i do not have an OASYS card yet some of those problems sound like
        similar ones suffered by pulsar users with a questionable chipset/PCI bus.
        ($$) means you have to spend money for this tip.

        (the logic "Sample Rate 38281 recognized. Check conflict between Logic Audio
        and external device".) can be fixed by matching the sample rate of OASYS
        with logic, since i don't have OASYS yet i do not know how :)

        If you bought a VIA chipset motherboard you may continue to have problems no
        matter what you do, but if you have a BX or i815 chipset you should be able
        to do a few tweakings to get the timing more stable.
        if you have a VIA based motherboard i recommend replacing it with an ASUS
        CUSL2 ($$)

        both chipsets:
        If you are using a PCI SCSI card (includes on board scsi chip) try reduce
        the max transfer rate to 10mbps [press ctrl a on scsi bootup with Adaptec
        cards]
        turn off bus mastering on your g400 (matrox display properties > performance
        tab)

        If you have a BX board:
        with a DMA66 IDE controller disable it and use the regular 33 one.
        disable printer, com, USB ports that you are not using (in bios)

        Windows:
        Make sure that the OASYS is not sharing any IRQ with another board.
        (system>device manager>double click on "my computer" to see which irqs are
        used
        If it is you can put the board in another PCI slot that is not sharing with
        anything (check motherboard manual) and with some BIOS you can force that
        slot to use a particular IRQ so windows can not reassign it.

        Set your swap file to maximum = minimum = (about double your RAM) when
        windows changes the size of the swap file it uses CPU and hard drive. it
        does it a lot. speaking of RAM you need lots of it :) 64 is not enough

        look in your system tray (little icons next to the clock) there should be
        nothing there except matrox display properties and OASYS icon (if it puts
        one there) there should DEFINATELY NOT be anything from "realnetworks" there
        they have a constantly running program that tries to block the installation
        of other programs from competitors. if you have MS office installed make
        sure Fastfind is not running it is also a hog.

        run "msconfig" and in the startup tab get rid of everything you do not need.
        (only remove things you recognize the name and purpose of)

        Make sure you are not using "midi yoke" it has caused timing problems for
        me, "hubis loopback" seem to be better (if you need something like that)

        Windows millennium: ($) it is definitely bloated, but you can disable all of
        the "extras" the midi timing is MUCH better with ME over win98 it also seems
        to me to be more stable but i only use that machine for pulsar, Logic, and
        various sound related programs.
        you can buy something called "98lite" which strips the winME folder down to
        less than 80 megs.(i don't use it myself though)

        You could buy a MAC ($$$)
        and dedicate it to OASYS which is not a bad idea as well, the drivers and
        software were originally designed for MAC and also you have the added
        benefit of being able to use Synthkit when it comes out.

        There are a few more tweaks but that should be enough to start with.
        I hope this helps.

        DeFex

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <tas@...>
        To: <oasys-pci@egroups.com>
        Sent: October 05, 2000 10:22 AM
        Subject: [oasys-pci] Logic Audio and Oasys/Windows problems?


        > Hi,
        >
        > Got the Oasys PCI card one month ago.
        >
        > I am very impressed with the performance of Oasys, BUT it is not
        > working with Logic.
        >
        > I am using the EASI MME driver, and have tried a lot of different
        > configurations and consulted the danish Korg agent - without solving
        > the problems.
        >
        > The system goes down very often. I get the following notice: Error
        > while trying to syncronize Audio and Midi. Sample Rate 38281
        > recognized. Check conflict between Logic Audio and external device".
        >
        > Audiorecordings are delayed. I have tried to compensate by adjusting
        > input/output delay and latency and comparing a recorded clicktrack
        > with the bars. But it is not working. Another problem is the
        > wellknown clicks in the recorded material.
        >
        > Sometimes the Logic window shakes when i drag and drop a window in
        > Oasys (I use Matrox dualhead with two monitors). Another syncronizing
        > problem?
        >
        > When triggering a drumbeat in Oasys through a Logic sequence (midi
        > tempo) the beat swings awefully (tempo goes up and down).
        >
        > Any ideas on how to solve the syncronizing- and click problems?
        >
        > The Korg guy I talk to says that Korg technicians run Logic with the
        > ASIO driver. We have both tried everything, but its not possible to
        > recognize the ASIO diver in Logic. Is it possible to hook Logic and
        > Oasys up with ASIO, and how is it done?
        >
        > I have used Logic for years (with Audiowerk 8) and have been very
        > satisfied, but these problems are driving me mad, and I am now
        > panicing and considering Apple hardware despite the fact that my PC
        > (PIII 733) is less than two month old. Is Mac better or can I make
        > this PC-system work?
        >
        > Complicated stuff - hope you can help :)
        >
        > Tom
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • tas@adr.dk
        Thanks for your reply!! In Oasys you have a Wave Device Settings where (among other things) you can set Synchronization Parameters. According to the manual
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 5, 2000
          Thanks for your reply!!

          In Oasys you have a "Wave Device Settings" where (among other things)
          you can set Synchronization Parameters. According to the manual it
          should be set to "Auto" . The Clock is set to Internal Clock / 44100
          Hz.

          I do use a VIA chipset (Asus VIA Apollo Pro 133). Your verdict is not
          very promissing .... Do anyone else have any experiences / comments
          about the (non)usability of the VIA chipset?

          I do use SCSI (Adaptec 19160), and will test a lower transfer rate.
          But on the other hand: Why buy an Ultra fast harddisk just to
          minimize the speed?

          I have deactivated the bus mastering in the Matrox software.

          The only IRQ, the Oasys card shares is ACPI IRQ-holder.

          Swap file setting: Which number should I set the minimum and maximum
          to?

          The only program in the system tray (besides the Matrox and Windows
          Job-planning) is my ISDN connection (EICON DIVA terminal adapter).

          The computer is only used for music and internet.

          What is winME?

          Seems like you prefer Windows 2000 to the old '98. I didn't know it
          was ready for Logic yet. Is it? Would it make any difference in my
          case?

          Satisfied with Pulsar? (Considered it myself, but choose Oasys
          because of the synth and effects + usability (its very easy and fast
          to work with)). I am happy with everything except ....... you know :)

          Talk to you later.

          Tom
        • defex
          ... From: To: Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:43 PM Subject: [oasys-pci] Re: Logic Audio and Oasys/Windows problems?
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 5, 2000
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: <tas@...>
            To: <oasys-pci@egroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:43 PM
            Subject: [oasys-pci] Re: Logic Audio and Oasys/Windows problems?


            > Thanks for your reply!!
            >
            > In Oasys you have a "Wave Device Settings" where (among other things)
            > you can set Synchronization Parameters. According to the manual it
            > should be set to "Auto" . The Clock is set to Internal Clock / 44100
            > Hz.
            >
            I had a similar problem with pulsar and it was fixed in Logic in a not very
            obvious submenu

            > I do use a VIA chipset (Asus VIA Apollo Pro 133). Your verdict is not
            > very promissing .... Do anyone else have any experiences / comments
            > about the (non)usability of the VIA chipset?
            >
            > I do use SCSI (Adaptec 19160), and will test a lower transfer rate.
            > But on the other hand: Why buy an Ultra fast harddisk just to
            > minimize the speed?
            >
            you will probably not notice much difference anyways since most hard drives
            can not sustain a rate greater than 30 mb/sec (more like 10 if your lucky)

            Well you can not get past the fact that the pci bus has a limited bandwidth,
            and if the hard drive controller is using most of it then there will not be
            much left for audio going from RAM > OASYS

            Audio is a special case in this, video editors have the AGP port now so the
            PCI bus is pretty much needed only for hard drive and some low bandwith
            things like modems and network cards.

            remember when you are playing a track from hard drive to OASYS the data is
            going through the PCI bus twice, once from disk > PCI > RAM (and cpu, os
            etc) then RAM > PCI > OASYS > OUT

            so say you have all these data packets on the PCI bus and you want to send a
            tiny MIDI instruction? it has to wait untill the PCI bus is free. so the
            timing is bad.

            > I have deactivated the bus mastering in the Matrox software.
            >
            > The only IRQ, the Oasys card shares is ACPI IRQ-holder.
            >
            > Swap file setting: Which number should I set the minimum and maximum
            > to?
            >

            Generally 2 times the RAM on your computer, once you get past 256 RAM you
            can reduce it to 1.5 times, and with 512 i just use 512 swap as well. im
            sure other people have other opinions about this its not tried and true or
            anything, just make sure whatever you decide has the same max and min

            its a good idea to put the swap file on a freshley defragged drive
            partition, and do not use an audio drive.

            > The only program in the system tray (besides the Matrox and Windows
            > Job-planning) is my ISDN connection (EICON DIVA terminal adapter).
            >
            > The computer is only used for music and internet.
            >
            > What is winME?
            windows millenium edition "windows 98 third edition"
            >
            > Seems like you prefer Windows 2000 to the old '98. I didn't know it
            > was ready for Logic yet. Is it? Would it make any difference in my
            > case?
            >
            No actually i meant windows ME which works fine with win98 drivers.

            > Satisfied with Pulsar? (Considered it myself, but choose Oasys
            > because of the synth and effects + usability (its very easy and fast
            > to work with)). I am happy with everything except ....... you know :)
            >

            I love it, its had its problems like any new computer related thing but now
            i can work from day to day without worrying about crashing or anything
            stupid. in fact soon i will get a SCOPE system, but i still want an OASYS as
            well because korg and yamaha are the only ones licenced to use the really
            good modelling algorithms.

            > Talk to you later.
            >
            > Tom
            >
            >
            DeFex

            www.mp3.com/defex
          • alkio@hkkk.fi
            ... Which version of Logic Audio do you have? ... You should definitely use the ASIO driver. You say the Oasys ASIO driver doesn t show up in the Logic s
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 6, 2000
              > I am very impressed with the performance of Oasys, BUT it is not
              > working with Logic.

              Which version of Logic Audio do you have?

              > I am using the EASI MME driver, and have tried a lot of different
              > configurations and consulted the danish Korg agent - without solving
              > the problems.

              You should definitely use the ASIO driver. You say the Oasys
              ASIO driver doesn't show up in the Logic's possible choices? If so,
              this is the core of your problem and should be solved. Hmm. Have
              you tried installing the newest Oasys drivers again after installing
              Logic? How about vice versa - install Logic again after installing the
              newest Oasys drivers.

              Oasys runs extremely well with Logic 4.5 and the ASIO driver. You can reduce the sample buffer in the
              Oasys controls to as low as 64 samples which means 3ms (or
              even 1.5ms?) latency, if I am right.

              >
              > The system goes down very often. I get the following notice: Error
              > while trying to syncronize Audio and Midi. Sample Rate 38281
              > recognized. Check conflict between Logic Audio and external device".

              This might have something to do with different sample rates, but it
              could also just be because you are not using the ASIO driver...

              All of the problems you write about will be solved when you get the
              ASIO driver working.

              > The Korg guy I talk to says that Korg technicians run Logic with the
              > ASIO driver. We have both tried everything, but its not possible to
              > recognize the ASIO diver in Logic. Is it possible to hook Logic and
              > Oasys up with ASIO, and how is it done?

              I am sure you know where to choose an ASIO driver in Logic's
              settings? The Oasys ASIO driver just doesn't show up there? Try
              the things I suggest in the beginning of my mail.

              >
              > I have used Logic for years (with Audiowerk 8) and have been very
              > satisfied, but these problems are driving me mad, and I am now
              > panicing and considering Apple hardware despite the fact that my PC
              > (PIII 733) is less than two month old. Is Mac better or can I make
              > this PC-system work?

              I have a Celeron II overclocked to 850Mhz so you should be able to
              get those low latencies as well...

              - Jouni
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