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RE: [oakgroveschooljharipani] Re: Mussoorie

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  • Chuni Vyas
    RN-i am stunned and speechless! my heart aches to think what he must have endured and that i did not know as i would have definitely helped out with whatever
    Message 1 of 33 , Jun 1, 2010
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      RN-i am stunned and speechless! my heart aches to think what he must have endured and that i did not know as i would have definitely helped out with whatever my capabilities were at that time-wish i had known
       
      On a more joyful note, the person i met is so full of compassion and smiles and laughter and is so generous and caring and this tells me that thankfully the hardships he endured have not left him an embittered person-------on the contrary he is all about giving! I had the honor and privelege of visiting his eye hospital where i saw sitting, rows of indigent people waiting for their completely FREE eye surgeries!!

      Praise be to God and all those that helped him to attain his goals as otherwise where would these people be to whom he gives the gift of sight each and every day? He is an amazing human being whom i adore and wish him every happiness ALWAYS.
       
      So this just goes to show that a person who is trying to make it and life throws its many curves, should not be allowed to fall through the cracks as otherwise who knows what the world will miss out on?!
      I can't help thinking that in some way perhaps his many years of schooling at OG made him resilient and persevering and against all odds, helped him achieve the success he enjoys today.
       
       

       
      chunmun-'71

       

      To: oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com
      From: captrnghosh@...
      Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 10:46:40 +0530
      Subject: RE: [oakgroveschooljharipani] Re: Mussoorie

       
      Well Chunmun, without naming that person I can tell you that he is a reputed eye specialist in kolkata today and you did meet him recently. While he was still studying  MBBS his father passed away and being the eldest in the family you can imagine what he went through. There are some other cases also and I think OOGs can come forward to help out, with part of the study expenses only, so that a promising career is not lost for want of a meagre sum of money.  Bye,  R.N.Ghosh

      --- On Mon, 31/5/10, Chuni Vyas <chunivyas@hotmail. com> wrote:

      From: Chuni Vyas <chunivyas@hotmail. com>
      Subject: RE: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      Date: Monday, 31 May, 2010, 7:20 PM

       
      OMG-------i am shocked and so saddened to learn this RN!! an exOG and that too a close friend of MINE?? WHO? or perhaps you can tell me that privately, but your point is very well noted and i so totally agree that some funds(hopefully this fund will get off the ground ) should go towards financial aid for the further education of ex og students in dire straits.

      chunmun-'71
       

      To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      From: captrnghosh@ yahoo.com
      Date: Mon, 31 May 2010 12:02:07 +0530
      Subject: RE: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie

       
       Hi Chunmun,
      Well, it is sad to say but it has happened. The basic problem is that ex oak grovians are mostly the children of railway employees and they normally do not have a ready made business to fall back upon. In some cases the father, the main bread earner, has passed away early and the child has not yet completed his or her studies. In other cases the child has not succeeded in finding a job and the father has retired. You will be shocked to know that once, one of your close friends, was in a deep hole like that. It is true that as ex oakgrovians we can do little in most cases, however, since we are trying to gather our views here, this one point can also be kept note of. In some genuine cases, where the studies are getting hampered mid way, we should come forward to help that unfortunate ex oakgrovian to complete his studies at least.  Bye,          R.N.Ghosh  
      --- On Fri, 28/5/10, Chuni Vyas <chunivyas@hotmail. com> wrote:

      From: Chuni Vyas <chunivyas@hotmail. com>
      Subject: RE: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      Date: Friday, 28 May, 2010, 8:30 PM

       
      but RN-you surely are not suggesting that you know of ex-OG folks being in this kind of situation? Yes,I agree, money spent/donated well toward worthy causes especially for the betterment of impoverished fellow human beings across the globe is definitely noble and a high priority with me.
      However, what makes you think(unless you are an eternal optimist) that if Oak Grovians or anyone else for that matter, earns huge sums of money, that they will automatically "spend a lot more on the welfare of so many helpless people"?
      I wish ALL people thought like that........ ......
       
       
      chunmun-'71

       

      To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      From: captrnghosh@ yahoo.com
      Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 16:08:47 +0530
      Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie

       
      Well , I sincerely wish we can just start earning more and more and then still more, not in a greedy kind of way, but then just more where  sky is the limit. That should really be the motto and the main driving force of achievers and that of the Oak Grovians at large. Just don't get satisfied. Just think how much good more money can do. We can then spend a lot more on the welfare of so many helpless people, people who with a little aid given at the right time can get out of the rotten hole and are able to face the world with confidence. You all must have heard of a debt trap and poverty is like a debt trap in itself. People sometimes  just cannot get out of it on their own after meeting their  day to day needs with their meager incomes. Bye,  R.N.Ghosh

      --- On Fri, 28/5/10, sanjeev meston <sanjeevmeston@ yahoo.com> wrote:

      From: sanjeev meston <sanjeevmeston@ yahoo.com>
      Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      Date: Friday, 28 May, 2010, 3:27 PM

       
      Hi all,
      May be I can try and have some input on this matter as well!
      Well to start with Oak Grovians now have a lot more exposure to reality and life than we in the pre 2000 era.
      Interestingly, India now offers a lot more of career opportunities and avenues than people had had in 60's, 70's or 80's. (It was in this period that Oak Grovians didn't know of Career options beyond Defence Services, Merchant Navy, Engineering, Medicine and Civil Services). I personally feel despite all these limitations- Oak Grovians have excelled (both past and present).
      Even now on the average 3% to 5 % of OG students each year make it into Engineering courses and likewise a similar percentage into Medical and also to other places. This is a big percentage on all India basis.
      Furthermore- OG and other reputed institutions (mainly residential schools) want to produce men and women of Wisdom, Intelligence, Character, Integrity etc.(all round development) . A student from such schools is meant to be a much polished product than any other student who spends 14 out of 24 hrs each day with books or a tutor (or at a Coaching Institute).
      Not every Oak Grovian desires to be an Engineer (to my knowledge Coaching Institutes mainly cater to prospective Engineers etc). Is it worth for an Institution to engage ongoing Coaching Instructors? I feel it is more purposeful getting people who run Personality development courses etc, so that every student can reap the benefit rather than limit it to 5 or 6 student who want to get into Engineering.
      Yes, career counseling and guidance probably is more helpful. (Although with current media and Technology students have lot of information than we all realise). A couple of years ago, when I was in OG and met a few Class 12 students, they were talking in terms of career in Journalism, IT, Travel, Hospitality industry etc. (Only a couple wanted to be Engineers)
       
      Let us look at ways of improving quality and enhance learning techniques at OG (improve teaching and learning) rather than turning our Alma Mater into a Coaching Centre. A place like Oak Grove has lot to offer, and likewise students have plenty to gain! Boarding schools offer Education with a difference.
       
      I personally think and a majority in this group probably may echo my views that there is much more refinement and finesse in a student who has been educated in a residential school of standing than an Engineer or high up from a totally academic kind of school. "Not that these schools are not good", but their focus is just on results (better results mean- more students join the school and more profitability) .
       
      Just, to emphasise what Sukhie said" It is the love for Money that is the root of all Evil" "Lack of Money or Money itself are not evil"
       
      I''ll be more than happy for members of this community to voice their views on this issue (both for and against- for it to culminate into a healthy discussion"
       
      My views are more as an Academician, since I have been associated with Education and Educational Institutions in various roles / capacities  for several years now.
       
       
      Regards and best wishes,
       
      Sanjeev Meston
      --- On Fri, 28/5/10, Sukhie <sukhiebrar@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: Sukhie <sukhiebrar@yahoo. com>
      Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      Received: Friday, 28 May, 2010, 8:05 PM

       
      RN - the only thing I want to add - just to keep the moral dimension of this issue clear...
      that while lack of money is an undesirable state but lack of it is not the root cause of all evil in this world. That is laying disproportionate blame on the poor people. Money and associated greed for more money is the root of more evil and often the cause of poverty....
       
      Also, I am happy girls are competing well..that should not be a cause for concern. In fact if there are coaching classes I hoe GS will not be discriminated.

      From: Rabindranath Ghosh <captrnghosh@ yahoo.com>
      To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 9:36:25 AM
      Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie

       
      My heart reaches out to those Ex Oak Grovians who continue to be unemployed or under employed and without any steady source of income. It is true that there are thousands of coaching classes in every town but I can say for sure, here in Kolkata,  that there are only a counted few real experts, each  in one  particular subject only, and there is a bee line to attend their classes and so it must be in Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and other cities. Just as we would want it for our own wards, I think we should try and see what we can do for the boys and girls in and from Oak Grove. These days the competition has become very tough for good placements, more so because placements in private institutions in particular are influenced by big packets of money and also the fact that a good percentage of them are taken over by girls who are coming forward shoulder to shoulder with the boys.
      I would just like to know the number of hours a student from class IX to class XII can really find to study in OG today. The good students in the plains study till mid night or else they start from five in the morning till the beginning of their school hours. These additional hours of study under expert tutelage show their results in the long run. Things like personality development are important, however, we should not forget that lack of money is the root cause of all evil on this earth. All moral values can easily evaporate from a person desperately trying to earn some money for his basic needs. Just blaming the OG teachers is not fair. What is needed is the pep up of additional vitamin pills into the entire process of education in OG and this is where ex Oak Grovians can come in. Well , think about it and let the debate go on till we can finally reach a firm decision in this matter. Can the Railways really help in this matter ?             Bye,  R.N.Ghosh

      --- On Thu, 27/5/10, Nikhil <nikhil_og@yahoo. com> wrote:

      From: Nikhil <nikhil_og@yahoo. com>
      Subject: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      Date: Thursday, 27 May, 2010, 7:47 PM

       
      Oak Grove has been inviting Coaching Institutes to teach Class 11th and 12th since 2001. Even for this year a coaching-institute of repute had stalled themselves for some days to 'coach' students. These are specifically to prepare them for IIT-JEE examinations.
      I do not concur with this method of teaching. Many of us would have read editorials regarding the ambiguous nature of coaching institutes. They have spiraled up in every nook and cranny of the plains and are not always imparting knowledge of the subject but, rather a rote method of some tricks that has to be followed to clear a certain examination. I, with my limited experience, would not recommend it to any student. Having said that, it can not be denied that parents demand the management to provide these 'facilities' . Otherwise, the students leave the school after their Matriculation examination and there are few students to fill the seats in 11th and 12th. We are after all children of the Railway employees. And today, every Railway employee wants their child to be in IIT or AIIMS. Expecting such results from a Boarding school is not doing justice to its other advantages. Not that it is impossible to crack these exams from a Boarding school. But, it would be unfair to model a Boarding school on yardsticks set by day schools.
      It would be right to add here that the children who come to OG are more or less not well-off and those that go to SGC, Doon or Mayo have parents who are cash rich. Here lies the dichotomy in terms of ambition of parents. And perhaps that is why SGC, DOSCO etc. have not deteriorated as much as OG has.
      This does not mean that there is no need of an analysis of our teachers. OG needs good and devoted teachers which, unfortunately, is a rarity in India these days as the compensation and benefits for Teachers are not very forthcoming.

      Classes that were held by Col. Mansukhani were a tremendous success. And seniors who sat for it still sing praises. I wasn't allowed to sit for them as I was in Class 8th. But, I remember on the first day of the course the whole school was given a chance to listen to the presentation. I learned the phrase 'Red Herring question' for the first time during that inspiring session apart from several other manners, etiquettes and soft-skills. Perhaps, this course should be taken up by him again. Soft-skills are a necessity in today's world and MBA institutes have a separate subject on it! OGians would be at an advantage if its carried out.

      Nikhil'05

      --- In oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com, Sukhie <sukhiebrar@. ..> wrote:
      >
      > Folks,
      >
      >  I agree with Caroline and Indru
      >
      > Theoreticaly, OG is at no greater disadvantage than any other boarding school. The difference again comes down to quality of teaching standards. No alumni network can compensate for poor quality of teaching. It can provide the contacts and the links to professional opportunities. In principle for children in school to be taught to learn from notes goes against the kind of school OG is /was meant to be. The world over, the emphasis is on teaching children to be critical thinkers and work with initiative and independently. Countries are desperate to get out of the learning-to- notes and by-rote mode. There are some very good studies which have focused on the skills employers want from secondary school graduates and it is not products of learning by heart kind of education. Sure in India marks make a difference to getting into the scarce college seats so I accept thats an issue that plagues most parents. I personally do not support that kind of education
      > which focuses on teaching to the test and quashes creativity. In the long run, the latter is what counts.
      >
      > Besides, the logistics of it dont make sense. Why do we assume that the "best" teachers have time to spare. And what do the students do in the summer that will allow them the time to focus on this kind of tutoring? Will it not come at the expense of something else?  And again, we are by passing and subsidizing poor teaching by provididng alternatives. It wil totally kill whatever remains of the teachers efforts in the classroom. I am also not so sure how much students will really benefit from this and how many will actually go onto better colleges or better careers. Do we have any record or way of knowing how our students are doing?
      >
      > I think the kind of training Indru provides is much better. Extra curricular personality building. I do think however, the idea of mentoring students is a good one. And also to provide a professional network for supporting job searches. I also think when ex-Oakgrovians visit OG, the school should ararnge talks by them to students on what their own careers are and what it takes to get into them. I also think that the reunions - as and when they occur, should be an opportunity to address the students with some inspirational and visionary stuf frtaher than just ceremonial speeches to acknowledge half a dozen people to feed their egos. Reunions can be very constructive WITHOUT taking away any of the fun part of it.
      >
      > In the end its about QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY ...of the Principal, the teachers...I know schools that have gone down with less capable management and been pulled right back up with a better management. If our teachers are so bad, they shouldn't be there. These are the issues we should be forcing the railways to address.
      >
      > SB
      >
      > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > From: Carolyn Martin <caza45au@...>
      > To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      > Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 10:12:07 AM
      > Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      >
      >  
      > Thank you Indru,  my primary concern is any person paid or unpaid to go into a school to "teach" the students on any level  would surely have to get the approval of the Department of Education and also the Railways.  You are right in saying perhaps the teachers need a course - I really do not know how or what has happened to the standard of education in OG - surely it is still up there with the best - I still feel however, one cannot create a nanny environment for school children all their school life - being in a boarding school does give one a lot of independence as mummy, daddy and the siblings are really not around to hold your hand.  
      >
      > What do other Boarding schools do TO PREPARE THE STUDENTS FOR THE REAL WORLD OUT THERE.  In this country students are educated further in that they are prepared for job interviews - how to apply, etc. etc...  Perhaps this could become a part of the senior school curriculum.  
      > Alot of the Indian school students in Australia are so over tutored and protected, where they get excellent results academically they suffer socially and integrating in a work environment.   Is this what is happening with students graduating from Oak Grove - or is it all hill station boarding schools. How on earth did you guys do so well Indru - so many of our time students have done brilliantly well in the outside world - both in India and overseas OG must have been doing something right. 
      > There were some pretty good ideas put forward in 2003 -2005/6 - if I can resurrect them I shall post them o n the site.  
      > All this needs to be thought through very soundly - I cannot pretend to have the brilliant mind some of you have - Sukhie, Jayashree, yourself, Venkat, Bert, Rajiv etc... - Common sense has been my guide for most of my life - so where I am sure the OOG students in Australia would I am sure be happy to do a bit of fundraising - somebody with the knowhow would need to oversee how it is spent.   I imagine this would all have to be do ne with the permission of the Indian Railways.
      > Thank you once again for your views.
      > Always
      > Caro 
      >
      >
      > --- On Wed, 26/5/10, Indru Mansukhani <ijm123@gmail. com> wrote:
      >
      >
      > >From: Indru Mansukhani <ijm123@gmail. com>
      > >Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >To:
      > >Received: Wednesday, 26 May, 2010, 3:12 PM
      > >
      > >
      > > 
      > >Dear Carolyn, RN and Anand Singh,
      > >           In Principle, I agree with the g’men. Yes, OG grads are at a fair amount of disadvantage when compared to the grads from the Metros. But that was true a decade or so ago. I am given to understand that substantial changes in the learning environment have improved the situation to a large extent. Yet, much more needs to be done.
      > >           Primarily the students at OG lead a rather protected life and are not exposed to the ways of the world. The extra curricular learning at OG is primarily dependent on the in house teachers, who, I am afraid; do not make any effort to enhance their personal knowledge. I hate to say this but, if the staff is put through a simple GK test, I wonder how many will ….?
      > >           Then there is the aspect of teachers from outside. Once they are contracted, they are no more outsiders. They become a part of OG. So one need not feel bad about that. The problem is will these teachers (contracted for a short period every year) be accepted by the permanent staff. From personal experience, I know that there will be a lot of bad blood. The permanent staff does NOTHING to improve their own knowledge base and yet feel threatened by outsiders.
      > >           In the year 2000 I, along with an associate of mine; conducted a 10-day training programme on Soft Skills for classes XI & XII of both BS & GS.  The compensation that we asked for and that was paid to us was ------- NOTHING. This has been acknowledged in the principal in his Founders day address as printed in the OAKGROVIAN 2001.
      > >           In spite of the suspicious looks and glances that came my way while the programme was in progress, I was prepared to conduct this training every alternate year. I would have done it too but for two disturbing facts. The first was that the principal got changed and the next guy was reluctant to incorporate even the smallest of the suggestions that I made in my feedback. Implementing these suggestions would have been at a virtual no cost basis. The second and more frightening was the fact that one of the teachers took C/L and visited me in Pune. The purpose of his visit was to confirm what the principal had said during the Founders day address ----- that no monetary compensation was paid to me.
      > >           Now if this is going to be the attitude of the staff, I really wonder what will happen when compensation is paid to the so called ‘outsiders’.
      > >           That my programme was a roaring success can be judged by the amount of fan mail I get even today. All the 11 or 12 staff who attended my programme will bear testimony to the success and usefulness of this programme as will Mr. Bhatt of the BS.
      > >           Let’s hope that mistrust gives way to better sense for this project if and when implemented.
      > >Tally Ho  !!
      > >Indru 
      > > 
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >Indru J Mansukhani
      > >#       (M) 91-98220-35146
      > >        (O) 91-20-2634-3537
      > >                       6602-9282
      > >                       2634-2379
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >On 26 May 2010 07:59, rajiv kapoor <rajivog@yahoo. com> wrote:
      > >
      > >Caro dear, much as I would love to, somehow, these days, my heart & brain both have revolted at the word OG - in so far (only) as it relates to these well-meaning ed but totally "odd" people who claimto have studied in OG. Of course, I did only 4 years there - but the lessons I learnt - were for lifetime. These guys talk a different language altogether ; and unfortunately, the guy who has shot off this one is just an year junior and is a senior Port Trust man ! 
      > >>Times - they have a changed - and we are reduced to mute bystanders - anachronisms in the true sense of the word.
      > >>No one listens to reasoned out thinking as laid out by some of my seniors.
      > >>Well, heartless I may sound - but its their loss , not mine - for in my heart OG is still the same........ ..
      > >>Love
      > >>r
      > >>
      > >>Rajiv
      > >>
      > >>--- On Tue, 25/5/10, Carolyn Martin <caza45au@yahoo. com.au> wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>>From: Carolyn Martin <caza45au@yahoo. com.au>
      > >>>Subject: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >>>To: "Rajiv Kapoor" <rajivog@yahoo. com>, "Indru Mansukhani" <ijm123@gmail. com>
      > >>>Date: Tuesday, 25 May, 2010, 8:41 PM
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>I cannot understand what this is all about?  It sounds almost like a form of babysitting.  What are your views on this.
      > >>>Caro
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>--- On Tue, 25/5/10, Rabindranath Ghosh <captrnghosh@ yahoo.com> wrote:
      > >>>
      > >>>
      > >>>>From: Rabindranath Ghosh <captrnghosh@ yahoo.com>
      > >>>>Subject: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >>>>To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      > >>>>Received: Tuesday, 25 May, 2010, 7:23 PM
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>> 
      > >>>>hi to all,
      > >>>> I have also been thinking of ways to help the  present students of Oak Grove in establishing themselves as successful individuals. During our days, although we were good in studies, yet when we landed in the competitive environment at Delhi and other metros, after leaving school, we were lost. Here there were tens of thousands of students who were better placed, competition wise, as they had better exposure to all kinds of coaching classes for many years. And although we had the tough determination to succeed, as Oak Grovians always had, it was pretty tough and nail biting. I am sure the competition to find a suitable placement after school, in some college of renown, whether in engineering or medicine or other professions has become tougher. Finally what matters is ones ability to to get that fat pay packet or income at the end of the month and for that one has to find a suitable placement. While in O G, students are totally cut off from the
      > rest of the world and have no exposure to the other students who have already by then started burning the mid night oil and studying on and on for hours together and under the guidance of some of the smartest teachers who stand guarantee for the success of their students. I think if we can find access to these types of teachers and their notes, and expose our students to their tough methods of teaching, it can go a long way. During the summer months if we can bring these teachers from the plains to teach the students in OG , in the cool environment of the hills , with all their expences paid for from our fund, I think it is then that we can creat good successful ex Oak Grovians, who in turn can contribute to this fund in turn as grateful individuals. Well think about it. I think it is something better than spending money on basic infrastructure which the Railways are supposed to do in any case. Bye, R.N.Ghosh
      > >>>>
      > >>>>--- On Mon, 24/5/10, Sukhie <sukhiebrar@yahoo. com> wrote:
      > >>>>
      > >>>>
      > >>>>>From: Sukhie <sukhiebrar@yahoo. com>
      > >>>>>Subject: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >>>>>To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      > >>>>>Date: Monday, 24 May, 2010, 5:05 PM
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> 
      > >>>>>Rajesh, Arun, Caroline, Jayashree et al.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>It is easy to get frustrated on this forum because of our collective inability to follow any conversation or suggestion logically - instead we dilute the focus by getting emotional or personalising it. I fully agree that our discussion generates a lot of hot air and nothing positive ever comes out of it. As Caroline has said now and as Indru pointed out, the suggestion for doing something for OG was mooted by us BEFORE the 2005 reunion when it was being planned - Actually I had proposed it for the children of OG staff assuming that OG was well looked after since we hadn't been there and seen the state for ourselves. When we came back we did start a serious discussion on how to take the issue of OG itself forward. All over the world the alumni contribute for specific or non specific welfare/ infratsruct ure improvements. However, these are done with the active involvement of the management of the institutions. I have more than once cited the
      > example of SGC's major fund raiser in the late 1980's and early 1990's. In the case of OG, what we have been saying is that let the Railways take the lead in identifying the shortcomings in the school (the three schools), let them do their bit and we then as alumni can do a fundraiser. I really cannot fathom why so many on this forum have found this approach so reprehensible as to negate it everytime it comes up. And yet, noone has offered any alternative approach as to how we can work together. Instead we are labeled as the ones who are not being constructive. Amidst all the shouting I dont see a single constructive suggestion for Oakgrovians to work with the Rly management. In this regard there are many contradictory statements about whether the Rlys are interested or not. I suspect the Railways are really saddled with a running a school that they have no interest in or vision for. The Chief Guest at the 2005 Re-U almost said as much 'should the
      > railways be in the business of running a school?  was his question. Yet, I am told they run a first class management institute. So it CAN be done, the Rlys CAN run a first class school too.  But they are not doing it.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>I agree that the Railways cannot dedicate its entire budget to OG but it also should not let it languish that even essential furniture needs to be requested from alumni and switchng to cheap plastic plates etc. The analogy that we accept gifts from friends but that doesnt mean we are poor is not aplicable because if you ask a friend to give you a few dining chairs or a bed, would that not mean that you had serious budget issues esp if you are pretending to be well off?
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>The point is not that individual contirbutions should not be made but that the larger issues should also be addressed.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>Regret once again to have sent this. But OG is a continuing dilemma and it is defeatist to give up
      > ____________ _________ _________ __
      > From: arun parti <arunparti@hotmail. com>
      > >>>>>To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      > >>>>>Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 1:24:08 PM
      > >>>>>Subject: RE: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> 
      > >>>>>Hi Rajesh,
      > >>>>> 
      > >>>>>Well said !! I have been regularly following all the mails on this site. Lets be positive in our thinking!!
      > >>>>> 
      > >>>>>Cheers
      > >>>>> 
      > >>>>>Parti 1968
      > >>>>>____________ _________ _________ __
      > To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      > >>>>>From: rajesh.srivastava@ vsnl.com
      > >>>>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 07:02:57 +0000
      > >>>>>Subject: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>> 
      > >>>>>Carolyn,
      > >>>>>I have started believing that there can never be a consensus here on this forum. You may be positive in your approach but will in majority of situations will end up being criticized for being optimistic for OG. You rightly said that there was a suggestion on issue of pooling in resources by Ex Oak Grovians last year and some of them had agreed to it. The suggestions of doing for school is really good as other School's alumni too have been doing on large scale (in OG scarcely) but they have not thought even once, why the school Management is not doing this and doing that without they(Alumni) actually doing anything for the school.
      > >>>>> 
      > >>>>>We all get and accepts gift on various occasions from our friends and relatives, this does not mean that we have become poor or are badly in need of the object being gifted. Here in case of OG, there was a detail discussion between Principal and Rly administration (the content of which is not known to me) on issue of formalisation of issues of donations/scholarsh ips and gifts by Ex Students, the Principal was told that accepting Vehicle was OK but what about the maintenance and diesel expenses and the Rly being a Govt organisation was right in making this obesrvation. He was suggested to go for furniture for the school and consequently Princi made a request for it. His request does not mean that school is in state of penury or has fallen in bad times.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>Some of us often expect that whatever earnings Rly's is getting they should spend it on OG exclusively? Rly has many areas to concentrate and OG is just one of them. Lets accept the fact.  Lets not be sarcastic.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>Considering the brick bats I usually get here on this forum by a select few, I too have started getting disillusioned about everything.  A few days back one of my classmate spoke to me and informed that the story of DPS buying OG is now being floated at one to one level. People don't realise that there are laws in India against such rumors and disinformation campaign. 
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>I too am bowing out of this forum.TOGA-India and all the OG related associations please drop your ego as it is not going to take you anywhere. Be constructive, questioning a purpose should be ethical and not biased. People who want to spread stories- it's really good that they have a mind that can hallucinate things, but please remember that there are legal consequences to it too. All of us have our own limit of patience and the testing of patience should be done so that the boundaries of tolerance do not crack.
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>Whatever controversy may be, TOGA-India guys are going to OG this Founders' to officially donate it on Oak Grovians' behalf.
      > >>>>>Sumeet, my dear friend you did a noble job by bringing all Oak Grovians together, do something to infuse positivity in us.
      > >>>>>Regards & bye to all Oak Grovians.
      > >>>>>Rajesh Srivastava
      > >>>>>1985
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>--- In oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com, Carolyn Martin <caza45au@> wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Somehow I remember a few years ago there was talk of donating money towards the betterment of the school -  I agree if the school/s need the ex students to buy their seats etc   for them things must be pretty bad  - It was only a suggestion and like a few others who have dropped out of sight I may do the same thing - this appears to have  become a contentious area to  put anything down - so till latter toodleoo.
      > >>>>>> Be kind to each other now.
      > >>>>>> Carolyn M.  
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> --- On Mon, 24/5/10, Sukhie sukhiebrar@ .. wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> From: Sukhie sukhiebrar@ ..
      > >>>>>> Subject: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >>>>>> To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      > >>>>>> Received: Monday, 24 May, 2010, 4:15 AM
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>  
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Thank you Jayshree -you said exactly what I wanted to say -  if the school cannot even afford chairs then where is the argument that OG is one of the best schools in the country? This is exactly why I believe that all these band-aid solutions to the chronic problems that OG faces are counter productive but of course, who the hell are we to say...
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> From: jayashreebanerjjee <jayashreebanerjjee@ yahoo.com>
      > >>>>>> To:
      > >>>>>> oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      > >>>>>> Sent: Sun, May 23, 2010 11:06:54 AM
      > >>>>>> Subject: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>  
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Carolyn
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Do you feel that OGGS has fallen into such dire straits that we need to buy chairs and tables for them????The Railways earn so much revenue from the trains, cant they be pushed to take any responsible for 'one' school that they run????
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> We could pool-in funds and give some deserving candidate a scholarship. ... but donating chairs and tables..... methinks not!!!
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Would like ot hear your comments
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Regards
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> Jayashree
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> --- In oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com, "Rajesh" <rajesh.srivastava@ ...> wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > Hi! Caro,
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > Just thought it to be my duty to do something for OG. Perhaps they are
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > getting these furniture for Boys School.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > Anyway thanks for words of inspiration.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > Regards.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > Rajesh
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > --- In oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com, Carolyn Martin
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > <caza45au@> wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Great work Rajesh - does this include the Girl's School? If not
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > can we all get together (the gals) and do something
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Caro
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > --- On Sat, 22/5/10, Rajesh rajesh.srivastava@ wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > From: Rajesh rajesh.srivastava@
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Subject: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Received: Saturday, 22 May, 2010, 3:11 AM
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Â
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Hi!,
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > They got broken and were replaced. These chairs as I know is being
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > purchased for Boys School Cover-shed. Last year I had supported school
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > with funds for remodeling of cover shed, projectors and Home Theater etc
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > and they had done it well for students to practice their yoga, exercises
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > etc. The place was redone with wooden flooring and paneling.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Please do visit and motivate the youngsters as every visit of Oak
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > Grovian instills in them a sense of achievement and in-turn acts as
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > motivating factor. Principal had asked me to attend the Founder's Day
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > program, but I am not able to attend this time as I have some urgent
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > engagements.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Regards.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > Rajesh
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > --- In oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com, "Rabindranath G"
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > <captrnghosh@ ...> wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > Hi Rajesh,
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > On the one hand it is great to know that you have made arrangements
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > for the purpose of purchase of a basic thing like chairs and on the
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > other hand it makes me wonder about the basic infrastructure existing in
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > Oak Grove today. Its sure that I must find time to visit O G and see
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > things for myself as I still make myself believe that I once studied in
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > one of the best schools during my time. God only knows what happened to
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > all that. All the same, congratulations to you for making an effort for
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > making good one of the vital requirements of our beloved school. Bye
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > the way, what happened to the good old wooden benches and chairs that we
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > used. Bye, R.N.Ghosh
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > --- In oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com, "Rajesh"
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > rajesh.srivastava@ wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > The booking for TATA MANZA was done and initial booking amount too
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > had
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > been paid by me. The N.Rly objected to it as the expenses
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > occurring
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > thereafter on the fuel, driver and maintenance cost, would be
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > difficult
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > for audit to justify. The Officials of N.Rly suggested that
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > instead of
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > Vehicle, School should take furniture for students and Principal
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > made
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > the request to me for chairs. I have accepted the proposal and Rs.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > 5.75
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > lakhs has been transferred for the purpose.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > Principal is doing the purchase directly from Dehradoon. This is
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > the
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > latest and final position as of now. I have requested Principal to
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > make
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > a mention of it on Facebook.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > Rajesh
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > --- In oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com,
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > "jayashreebanerjjee "
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > <jayashreebanerjjee@> wrote:
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > > Good..... so now we have moved from OG to Muss. Its a safer
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > topic and
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > > hope the sound level will be low here.
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > > But me being curious as ever... what is happening to OG ? We are
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > now
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > > done with donating the car by Rajesh. Who/whats next people?
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > What is
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > > being sent to OG now?
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > > Of course i promise not to yell this time!
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > > Ciao allJayashree
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> > >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>> >
      > >>>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>
      > >>>>>____________ _________ _________ __
      > The battle for the FIH Hockey World Cup Drag n’ drop
      > >>>>
      > >>> 
      > >>
      > >
      >  
      >



       






    • ravindra.dass@sbi.co.in
      From: Kanwal Jit Singh To: oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com Date: 05/30/2010 04:00 PM Subject: RE: Re: [oakgroveschooljharipani] Re:
      Message 33 of 33 , Jun 2, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        From:Kanwal Jit Singh <ks@...>
        To:oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com
        Date:05/30/2010 04:00 PM
        Subject:RE: Re: [oakgroveschooljharipani] Re: Mussoorie




        To us, in La Mart-Lucknow, study was extra curricular activity (From the speech of Mr Chandra Addl General Manager Northern Railway on Founders Day 2010 in School Auditorium)

        Regards
        R K Dass

        Sukhie, I endorse that completely.

        It is the quality of education that will get you through.

        Education to analyse and character to take tough decisions – and that can be done only through acquiring the power to think, and appreciate.

        Not the short wiring your brain to get on the competitive routine map.

         

        Kanwal Jit Singh (1968)


        From: oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com [mailto:oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Sukhie
        Sent:
        Sunday, May 30, 2010 3:36 PM
        To:
        oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com
        Subject:
        Re: Re: [oakgroveschooljharipani] Re: Mussoorie

         

         

        Jayshree - interesting that you mention the limited choice of subjects we had...I was at a curriculum reform task force meeting withe Ministry of Education here on Thursday = too many subjects - a dreamers wish list without much connection with reality of resoruces available - anyway...I have the example of my own schooling - 6 subjects - and an odd assortment too.,,with no connection to any career - English Language, Eng Literature, History, Hindi, Art, Biology. By the time I was ready for the ISC  exam I could have written an essay on any topic under the sun. We studied Julius Caesar so thoroughly that I can still recite some of the speeches. What that taught us was not the story of Caesar's life but an appreciation for the English Language, the use of words, the nuanced expression of ideals, character assessment, digging deeper for meaning, lofty idealism ( who can forget 'and the elements so mixed in him that nature might stand up and say to all the world He was a man'- ). I might add that for my bachelor's I went to St Bede's - a college known in those days for style over academic substance. No-one , and I repeat, no-one EVER mentioned to us a career while in college and my MA was through evening classes in Rajindra Govt College Bathinda. Yes I did have the benefit of a family that encouraged reading above all else, from a yougn age I was asked to read editorials and discuss with my dad, and to hear the 9 am news in English from AIR and BBC when home for  the holidays. But my academic foundations were laid in OG. When I sat for the IAS, it was under the old system, but even so, over 30,000 people sat for the all -India services exam and I came in 38th for the IFS and 42 nd for the IAS - largely because of the academic skills of analysis, information processing, thinking logically and have strong language skills to present those thoughts in a logical manner. And yes, I did 6 weeks at SN Das Gupta college essentially to get over my fears of competing aganst people from Delhi University, JNU, IITs etc etc who had access tor the best academic resources in the country at the time. Mckinzey - for sometime the top consultant firm recruited PhD students regardless of subject of study because of the acquired ability to absorb, process and present information in a logical and analytical way. So its not the number of subjects you study but how you are taught that matters.

        The other things I learn tor did not learn at OG.
        I had no awareness of the caste system while at OG. I never had heard of scheduled castes or other caste differences while in school. Only later did one start picking up bits and pieces and it really hit home how it is often the first thing people relate to when I went to Jodhpur, Rajasthan as a probationer  . I recall being stumped when asked by a Sikh girl from Kuwait in St Bede's, whether I was  Bhapa Sikh or a Jat Sikh. I asked my dad when I came home for the holidays and that was my first lesson in differences.  IN OG we were secular and we believed all human beings to be equal.

        We learnt to take responsibility at OG, Iearnt the basics of organizing and leadership (from decorating the halls for socials, plays, sports day march past practices making sure the not so good marchers were brought up to speed with endless repeat practices, . being a prefect and school captain), learnt compassion from our dealings with school staff, the ayahs who would often tell us nits and pieces about their lives, the chhoti ayah used to get beaten by a drunken husband I recall)
        in OG we learnt the pursuit of excellence. To aim high and do your best and to enjoy healthy competition with the best. I remember being pulled out of hospi to go to Dehra Duun for a debating competition at Doon School - and Vikram Seth was one of the competitors.  Competing against the best also helps you realize your own strengths and limitations ( instead of breeding a false  sense of arrogance and over confidence)

        And of course we learnt the value of friendship and loyalty. I remember well an incident at the LBSNAA when someone asked Mr Buch of MP cadre who had come there as guest speaker if he shoudl report his superior to the next superior if he thought his superior was doing something wrong. And Mrbuch gave this answer that said it all 'Have you never heard of the sneaky little bastards in school that we called a snitch?"

        OG, like other good residential public schools,  was a way of LIFE - it wasn't a mere school - and from everythig I read, it is an erosion of a way of LIFE that has taken place not just a deterioration of standards. You have management and teachers there that have no understanding of what a residential public school means beyond classes and provide dorms and food to children.

        No amount of coaching can compensate for the lack of good teaching. If you have good teaching, the added advantage of coaching  is all for the good in this highly competitive world. But good teaching is the foundation upon which all else lies. And OG seems to have deteriorated in that department.


        From: jayashreebanerjjee <jayashreebanerjjee@...>
        To:
        oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com
        Sent:
        Sat, May 29, 2010 3:19:13 PM
        Subject:
        Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljharipani] Re: Mussoorie


         

        Hi All who have been posting on quality of education in OG...

        Here is my two bit on it as I see it:

        The first thing is that OG was already churning out well groomed, well educated, successful, independant and modern people well suited for the world over the years. So that was one thing which was already taken care of. Although, I must admit, academically we were a little left behind perhaps because of our isolation and our lack of competetion with the 'Plains' (OG terminology?)Or also because we did not get the kind of guidance/options the Plains students got. I remember we had a very limited number of subjects we could opt for ISC.

        Now it seems that OG has lost the edge we had over grooming and also not got anywhere in academic upmanship. So we have two problems and in my opinion this can only be overcome with the help of first rate teachers and trainers. The teachers are very important in a residential school coz the children spend most of the tme with them and under their guidance. No matter how good your visiting lecturers are, the main influence on the students will be of the permanant teachers.

        So we need,
        1. Excellent 'teachers' with thorough knowledge of their individual subjects and who are given constant upgradations.
        2.Teachers who can be Role models in matters of personal grooming and etiquette.
        3. Plenty of physical excercise in way of games and 'team sports'.
        4.Frequent interaction in fields of debate, declamation, sports, writing competetion, drama etc etc with other schools so the students know where they stand in the big bad world!

        To this end we the OOGs must interact with the Railways and the Princi and see what is needed and how we can help. It will be a very good gesture if more people like Indru comes forward and shares their expertise with the pupils.I also support the concept of helping the outgoing Class XII with some funds to do some courses in the Coaching schools.And of course Sukhie is right.... those of us who have done it right in life should talk to the young lads and ladies about the steps we took to get where we are.

        Rajesh you are first in que my lad!

        Now dont jump down my gullet of you disagree with me. Cool it!!!

        Ciao
        Jayashree

        --- In
        oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com, Carolyn Martin <caza45au@...> wrote:

        >
        > Thank you Devinder - and also to you Sanjeev, this is what I have
        been trying to say all the time.  Let commonsense prevail!!  As said, the past has produced many success stories out of Oak Grove - whether poor pr rich - against all odd sometimes.  Thank you.  
        > Caro
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Sun, 30/5/10, Devinder <devhans59@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Devinder <devhans59@...>
        > Subject: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljharipani] Re: Mussoorie
        > To:
        oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com
        > Received: Sunday, 30 May, 2010, 4:33 AM
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Â
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Hi all,
        >
        > I fully agree with Sanjeev. O G should not be made into a coaching centre. This would defeat the purpose for which it was started.The main objective was over all development and not merely getting into the merit list.We Oakgrovians have been successful because of our confidence and what we learnt in OG and not because of the academics only.The only thing I can suggest is that we need better teachers.
        >
        > Regards - Hanspal 75
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In
        oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com, sanjeev meston <sanjeevmeston@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Hi all,
        >
        > > May be I can try and have some input on this matter as well!
        >
        > > Well to start with Oak Grovians now have a lot more exposure
        to reality and life than we in the pre 2000 era.
        >
        > > Interestingly, India now offers a lot more of career opportunities
        and avenues than people had had in 60's, 70's or 80's. (It was in this period that Oak Grovians didn't know of Career options beyond Defence Services, Merchant Navy, Engineering, Medicine and Civil Services). I personally feel despite all these limitations- Oak Grovians have excelled (both past and present).
        >
        > > Even now on the average 3% to 5 % of OG students each yearÂÂ
        make it into Engineering courses and likewise a similar percentage into Medical and also to other places. This is a big percentage on all India basis.
        >
        > > Furthermore- OG and other reputed institutions (mainly residential
        schools) want to produce men and women of Wisdom, Intelligence, Character, Integrity etc.(all round development). A student from such schools is meant to be a much polished product than any other student who spends 14 out of 24 hrs each day with books or a tutor (or at a Coaching Institute).
        >
        > > Not every Oak Grovian desires to be an Engineer (to my knowledge
        Coaching Institutes mainly cater to prospective Engineers etc). Is it worth for an Institution to engage ongoing Coaching Instructors? I feel it is more purposeful getting people who run Personality development courses etc, so that every student can reap the benefit rather than limit it to 5 or 6 student who want to get into Engineering.
        >
        > > Yes, career counseling and guidance probably is more helpful.
        (Although with current media and Technology students have lot of information than we all realise). A couple of years ago, when I was in OG and met a few Class 12 students, they were talking in terms of career in Journalism, IT, Travel, Hospitality industry etc. (Only a couple wanted to be Engineers)
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > Let us look at ways of improving quality and enhance learning
        techniques at OG (improve teaching and learning) rather than turning our Alma Mater into a Coaching Centre. A place like Oak Grove has lot to offer, and likewise students have plenty to gain! Boarding schools offer Education with a difference.
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > I personally think and a majority in this group probably may
        echo my views that there is much more refinement and finesse in a student who has been educated in a residential school of standing than an Engineer or high up from a totally academic kind of school. "Not that these schools are not good", but their focus is just on results (better results mean- more students join the school and more profitability).
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > Just, to emphasise what Sukhie said" It is the love for
        Money that is the root of all Evil" "Lack of Money or Money itself are not evil"
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > I''ll be more than happy for members of this community to voice
        their views on this issue (both for and against- for it to culminate into a healthy discussion"
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > My views are more as an Academician, since I have been associated
        with Education and Educational Institutions in various roles / capacities  for several years now.
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > Regards and best wishes,
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > Sanjeev Meston
        >
        > > --- On Fri, 28/5/10, Sukhie <sukhiebrar@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > From: Sukhie <sukhiebrar@>
        >
        > > Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljharipani] Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > > To:
        oakgroveschooljharipani@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > > Received: Friday, 28 May, 2010, 8:05 PM
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >   
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > RN - the only thing I want to add - just to keep the moral dimension of this issue clear...
        >
        > > that while lack of money is an undesirable state but lack of
        it is not the root cause of all evil in this world. That is laying disproportionate blame on the poor people. Money and associated greed for more money is the root of more evil and often the cause of poverty....
        >
        > > ÂÂ
        >
        > > Also, I am happy girls are competing well..that should notÂÂ
        be a cause for concern. In fact if there are coaching classes I hoe GS will not be discriminated.
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > From: Rabindranath Ghosh <captrnghosh@ yahoo.com>
        >
        > > To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
        >
        > > Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 9:36:25 AM
        >
        > > Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > >
        >
        > >   
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > My heart reaches out to those Ex Oak Grovians who continue to
        be unemployed or under employed and without any steady source of income. It is true that there are thousands of coaching classes in every town but I can say for sure, here in Kolkata,  that there are only a counted few real experts, each  in one  particular subject only, and there is a bee line to attend their classes and so it must be in Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and other cities. Just as we would want it for our own wards, I think we should try and see what we can do for the boys and girls in and from Oak Grove. These days the competition has become very tough for good placements, more so because placements in private institutions in particular are influenced by big packets of money and also the fact that a good percentage of them are taken over by girls who are coming forward shoulder to shoulder with the boys.
        >
        > > I would just like to know the number of hours a student from
        class IX to class XII can really find to study in OG today. The good students in the plains study till mid night or else they start from five in the morning till the beginning of their school hours. These additional hours of study under expert tutelage show their results in the long run. Things like personality development are important, however, we should not forget that lack of money is the root cause of all evil on this earth. All moral values can easily evaporate from a person desperately trying to earn some money for his basic needs. Just blaming the OG teachers is not fair. What is needed is the pep up of additional vitamin pills into the entire process of education in OG and this is where ex Oak Grovians can come in. Well , think about it and let the debate go on till we can finally reach a firm decision in this matter. Can the Railways really help in this matter
        >
        > > ?           ÂÂ
         Bye,  R.N.Ghosh
        >
        > >
        >
        > > --- On Thu, 27/5/10, Nikhil <nikhil_og@yahoo. com> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > From: Nikhil <nikhil_og@yahoo. com>
        >
        > > Subject: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > > To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
        >
        > > Date: Thursday, 27 May, 2010, 7:47 PM
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >   
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Oak Grove has been inviting Coaching Institutes to teach Class
        11th and 12th since 2001. Even for this year a coaching-institute of repute had stalled themselves for some days to 'coach' students. These are specifically to prepare them for IIT-JEE examinations.
        >
        > > I do not concur with this method of teaching. Many of us would
        have read editorials regarding the ambiguous nature of coaching institutes. They have spiraled up in every nook and cranny of the plains and are not always imparting knowledge of the subject but, rather a rote method of some tricks that has to be followed to clear a certain examination. I, with my limited experience, would not recommend it to any student. Having said that, it can not be denied that parents demand the management to provide these 'facilities' . Otherwise, the students leave the school after their Matriculation examination and there are few students to fill the seats in 11th and 12th. We are after all children of the Railway employees. And today, every Railway employee wants their child to be in IIT or AIIMS. Expecting such results from a Boarding school is not doing justice to its other advantages. Not that it is impossible to crack these exams from a Boarding school. But, it
        >
        > > would be unfair to model a Boarding school on yardsticks set
        by day schools.
        >
        > > It would be right to add here that the children who come to OG
        are more or less not well-off and those that go to SGC, Doon or Mayo have parents who are cash rich. Here lies the dichotomy in terms of ambition of parents. And perhaps that is why SGC, DOSCO etc. have not deteriorated as much as OG has.
        >
        > > This does not mean that there is no need of an analysis of our
        teachers. OG needs good and devoted teachers which, unfortunately, is a rarity in India these days as the compensation and benefits for Teachers are not very forthcoming.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Classes that were held by Col. Mansukhani were a tremendous success.
        And seniors who sat for it still sing praises. I wasn't allowed to sit for them as I was in Class 8th. But, I remember on the first day of the course the whole school was given a chance to listen to the presentation. I learned the phrase 'Red Herring question' for the first time during that inspiring session apart from several other manners, etiquettes and soft-skills. Perhaps, this course should be taken up by him again. Soft-skills are a necessity in today's world and MBA institutes have a separate subject on it! OGians would be at an advantage if its carried out.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Nikhil'05
        >
        > >
        >
        > > --- In oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com, Sukhie <sukhiebrar@
        ..> wrote:
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > Folks,
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >  I agree with Caroline and Indru
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > Theoreticaly, OG is at no greater disadvantage than any
        other boarding school. The difference again comes down to quality of teaching standards. No alumni network can compensate for poor quality of teaching. It can provide the contacts and the links to professional opportunities. In principle for children in school to be taught to learn from notes goes against the kind of school OG is /was meant to be. The world over, the emphasis is on teaching children to be critical thinkers and work with initiative and independently. Countries are desperate to get out of the learning-to- notes and by-rote mode. There are some very good studies which have focused on the skills employers want from secondary school graduates and it is not products of learning by heart kind of education. Sure in India marks make a difference to getting into the scarce college seats so I accept thats an issue that plagues most parents. I personally do
        > not support that kind
        >
        > > of education
        >
        > > > which focuses on teaching to the test and quashes creativity.
        In the long run, the latter is what counts.
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > Besides, the logistics of it dont make sense. Why do we
        assume that the "best" teachers have time to spare. And what do the students do in the summer that will allow them the time to focus on this kind of tutoring? Will it not come at the expense of something else?  And again, we are by passing and subsidizing poor teaching by provididng alternatives. It wil totally kill whatever remains of the teachers efforts in the classroom. I am also not so sure how much students will really benefit from this and how many will actually go onto better colleges or better careers. Do we have any record or way of knowing how our students are doing?
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > I think the kind of training Indru provides is much better.
        Extra curricular personality building. I do think however, the idea of mentoring students is a good one. And also to provide a professional network for supporting job searches. I also think when ex-Oakgrovians visit OG, the school should ararnge talks by them to students on what their own careers are and what it takes to get into them. I also think that the reunions - as and when they occur, should be an opportunity to address the students with some inspirational and visionary stuf frtaher than just ceremonial speeches to acknowledge half a dozen people to feed their egos. Reunions can be very constructive WITHOUT taking away any of the fun part of it.
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > In the end its about QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY ...of the
        Principal, the teachers...I know schools that have gone down with less capable management and been pulled right back up with a better management. If our teachers are so bad, they shouldn't be there. These are the issues we should be forcing the railways to address.
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > SB
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
        >
        > > > From: Carolyn Martin <caza45au@>
        >
        > > > To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
        >
        > > > Sent: Wed, May 26, 2010 10:12:07 AM
        >
        > > > Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >   
        >
        > > > Thank you Indru,  my primary concern is any person
        paid or unpaid to go into a school to "teach" the students on any level  would surely have to get the approval of the Department of Education and also the Railways.  You are right in saying perhaps the teachers need a course - I really do not know how or what has happened to the standard of education in OG - surely it is still up there with the best - I still feel however, one cannot create a nanny environment for school children all their school life - being in a boarding school does give one a lot of independence as mummy, daddy and the siblings are really not around to hold your hand. ÂÂÂ
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > What do other Boarding schools do TO PREPARE THE STUDENTS
        FOR THE REAL WORLD OUT THERE.  In this country students are educated further in that they are prepared for job interviews - how to apply, etc. etc...  Perhaps this could become a part of the senior school curriculum. ÂÂÂ
        >
        > > > Alot of the Indian school students in Australia are so over
        tutored and protected, where they get excellent results academically they suffer socially and integrating in a work environment.   Is this what is happening with students graduating from Oak Grove - or is it all hill station boarding schools. How on earth did you guys do so well Indru - so many of our time students have done brilliantly well in the outside world - both in India and overseas OG must have been doing something right.ÂÂÂ
        >
        > > > There were some pretty good ideas put forward in 2003 -2005/6
        - if I can resurrect them I shall post them o n the site. ÂÂÂ
        >
        > > > All this needs to be thought through very soundly - I cannot
        pretend to have the brilliant mind some of you have - Sukhie, Jayashree, yourself, Venkat, Bert, Rajiv etc... - Common sense has been my guide for most of my life - so where I am sure the OOG students in Australia would I am sure be happy to do a bit of fundraising - somebody with the knowhow would need to oversee how it is spent.   I imagine this would all have to be do ne with the permission of the Indian Railways.
        >
        > > > Thank you once again for your views.
        >
        > > > Always
        >
        > > > CaroÂÂÂ
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > --- On Wed, 26/5/10, Indru Mansukhani <ijm123@gmail.
        com> wrote:
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > > > >From: Indru Mansukhani <ijm123@gmail. com>
        >
        > > > >Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani] Re:
        Mussoorie
        >
        > > > >To:
        >
        > > > >Received: Wednesday, 26 May, 2010, 3:12 PM
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >  
        >
        > > > >Dear Carolyn, RN and Anand Singh,
        >
        > > > >    Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ In Principle, I agree with the g’men. Yes, OG grads are at a fair amount of disadvantage when compared to the grads from the Metros. But that was true a decade or so ago. I am given to understand that substantial changes in the learning environment have improved the situation to a large extent. Yet, much more needs to be done.
        >
        > > > >    Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ Primarily the students at OG lead a rather protected life and are not exposed to the ways of the world. The extra curricular learning at OG is primarily dependent on the in house teachers, who, I am afraid; do not make any effort to enhance their personal knowledge. I hate to say this but, if the staff is put through a simple GK test, I wonder how many will ….?
        >
        > > > >    Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ Then there is the aspect of teachers from outside. Once they are contracted, they are no more outsiders. They become a part of OG. So one need not feel bad about that. The problem is will these teachers (contracted for a short period every year) be accepted by the permanent staff. From personal experience, I know that there will be a lot of bad blood. The permanent staff does NOTHING to improve their own knowledge base and yet feel threatened by outsiders.
        >
        > > > >    Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ In the year 2000 I, along with an associate of mine; conducted a 10-day training programme on Soft Skills for classes XI & XII of both BS & GS.  The compensation that we asked for and that was paid to us was ------- NOTHING. This has been acknowledged in the principal in his Founders day address as printed in the OAKGROVIAN 2001.
        >
        > > > >    Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ In spite of the suspicious looks and glances that came my way while the programme was in progress, I was prepared to conduct this training every alternate year. I would have done it too but for two disturbing facts. The first was that the principal got changed and the next guy was reluctant to incorporate even the smallest of the suggestions that I made in my feedback. Implementing these suggestions would have been at a virtual no cost basis. The second and more frightening was the fact that one of the teachers took C/L and visited me in Pune. The purpose of his visit was to confirm what the principal had said during the Founders day address ----- that no monetary compensation was paid to me.
        >
        > > > >    Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ Now if this is going to be the attitude of the staff, I really wonder what will happen when compensation is paid to the so called â€ËÅ"outsiders’.
        >
        > > > >    Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ That my programme was a roaring success can be judged by the amount of fan mail I get even today. All the 11 or 12 staff who attended my programme will bear testimony to the success and usefulness of this programme as will Mr. Bhatt of the BS.
        >
        > > > >    Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ Let’s hope that mistrust gives way to better sense for this project if and when implemented.
        >
        > > > >Tally Ho  !!
        >
        > > > >IndruÂÂÂ
        >
        > > > >  
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >Indru J Mansukhani
        >
        > > > >#   Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  (M)
        91-98220-35146
        >
        > > > >  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         (O) 91-20-2634-3537
        >
        > > > >  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ 6602-9282
        >
        > > > >  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â
         Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚ 2634-2379
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >On 26 May 2010 07:59, rajiv kapoor <rajivog@yahoo.
        com> wrote:
        >
        > > > >
        >
        > > > >Caro dear, much as I would love to, somehow, these days,
        my heart & brain both have revolted at the word OG - in so far (only) as it relates to these well-meaning ed but totally "odd" people who claimto have studied in OG. Of course, I did only 4 years there - but the lessons I learnt - were for lifetime. These guys talk a different language altogether ; and unfortunately, the guy who has shot off this one is just an year junior and is a senior Port Trust man !  
        >
        > > > >>Times - they have a changed - and we are reduced
        to mute bystanders - anachronisms in the true sense of the word.
        >
        > > > >>No one listens to reasoned out thinking as laid
        out by some of my seniors.
        >
        > > > >>Well, heartless I may sound - but its their loss
        , not mine - for in my heart OG is still the same........ ..
        >
        > > > >>Love
        >
        > > > >>r
        >
        > > > >>
        >
        > > > >>Rajiv
        >
        > > > >>
        >
        > > > >>--- On Tue, 25/5/10, Carolyn Martin <caza45au@yahoo.
        com.au> wrote:
        >
        > > > >>
        >
        > > > >>
        >
        > > > >>>From: Carolyn Martin <caza45au@yahoo. com.au>
        >
        > > > >>>Subject: Fw: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani]
        Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > > > >>>To: "Rajiv Kapoor" <rajivog@yahoo.
        com>, "Indru Mansukhani" <ijm123@gmail. com>
        >
        > > > >>>Date: Tuesday, 25 May, 2010, 8:41 PM
        >
        > > > >>>
        >
        > > > >>>
        >
        > > > >>>
        >
        > > > >>>I cannot understand what this is all about?
         It sounds almost like a form of babysitting.  What are your views on this.
        >
        > > > >>>Caro
        >
        > > > >>>
        >
        > > > >>>
        >
        > > > >>>
        >
        > > > >>>--- On Tue, 25/5/10, Rabindranath Ghosh <captrnghosh@
        yahoo.com> wrote:
        >
        > > > >>>
        >
        > > > >>>
        >
        > > > >>>>From: Rabindranath Ghosh <captrnghosh@
        yahoo.com>
        >
        > > > >>>>Subject: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani]
        Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > > > >>>>To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups
        .com
        >
        > > > >>>>Received: Tuesday, 25 May, 2010, 7:23 PM
        >
        > > > >>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>  
        >
        > > > >>>>hi to all,
        >
        > > > >>>> I have also been thinking of
        ways to help the  present students of Oak Grove in establishing themselves as successful individuals. During our days, although we were good in studies, yet when we landed in the competitive environment at Delhi and other metros, after leaving school, we were lost. Here there were tens of thousands of students who were better placed, competition wise, as they had better exposure to all kinds of coaching classes for many years. And although we had the tough determination to succeed, as Oak Grovians always had, it was pretty tough and nail biting. I am sure the competition to find a suitable placement after school, in some college of renown, whether in engineering or medicine or other professions has become tougher. Finally what matters is ones ability to to get that fat pay packet or income at the end of the month and for that one has to find a suitable placement. While in O G, students are
        > totally cut off from
        >
        > > the
        >
        > > > rest of the world and have no exposure to the other students
        who have already by then started burning the mid night oil and studying on and on for hours together and under the guidance of some of the smartest teachers who stand guarantee for the success of their students. I think if we can find access to these types of teachers and their notes, and expose our students to their tough methods of teaching, it can go a long way. During the summer months if we can bring these teachers from the plains to teach the students in OG , in the cool environment of the hills , with all their expences paid for from our fund, I think it is then that we can creat good successful ex Oak Grovians, who in turn can contribute to this fund in turn as grateful individuals. Well think about it. I think it is something better than spending money on basic infrastructure which the Railways are supposed to do in any case. Bye, R.N.Ghosh
        >
        > > > >>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>--- On Mon, 24/5/10, Sukhie <sukhiebrar@yahoo.
        com> wrote:
        >
        > > > >>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>From: Sukhie <sukhiebrar@yahoo. com>
        >
        > > > >>>>>Subject: Re: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani]
        Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > > > >>>>>To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups
        .com
        >
        > > > >>>>>Date: Monday, 24 May, 2010, 5:05 PM
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>  
        >
        > > > >>>>>Rajesh, Arun, Caroline, Jayashree et
        al.
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>It is easy to get frustrated on this
        forum because of our collective inability to follow any conversation or suggestion logically - instead we dilute the focus by getting emotional or personalising it. I fully agree that our discussion generates a lot of hot air and nothing positive ever comes out of it. As Caroline has said now and as Indru pointed out, the suggestion for doing something for OG was mooted by us BEFORE the 2005 reunion when it was being planned - Actually I had proposed it for the children of OG staff assuming that OG was well looked after since we hadn't been there and seen the state for ourselves. When we came back we did start a serious discussion on how to take the issue of OG itself forward. All over the world the alumni contribute for specific or non specific welfare/ infratsruct ure improvements. However, these are done with the active involvement of the management of the institutions. I have more than
        > once cited the
        >
        > > > example of SGC's major fund raiser in the late 1980's and
        early 1990's. In the case of OG, what we have been saying is that let the Railways take the lead in identifying the shortcomings in the school (the three schools), let them do their bit and we then as alumni can do a fundraiser. I really cannot fathom why so many on this forum have found this approach so reprehensible as to negate it everytime it comes up. And yet, noone has offered any alternative approach as to how we can work together. Instead we are labeled as the ones who are not being constructive. Amidst all the shouting I dont see a single constructive suggestion for Oakgrovians to work with the Rly management. In this regard there are many contradictory statements about whether the Rlys are interested or not. I suspect the Railways are really saddled with a running a school that they have no interest in or vision for. The Chief Guest at the 2005 Re-U almost said as
        > much 'should
        >
        > > the
        >
        > > > railways be in the business of running a school? ÂÂÂ
        was his question. Yet, I am told they run a first class management institute. So it CAN be done, the Rlys CAN run a first class school too.  But they are not doing it.
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>I agree that the Railways cannot dedicate
        its entire budget to OG but it also should not let it languish that even essential furniture needs to be requested from alumni and switchng to cheap plastic plates etc. The analogy that we accept gifts from friends but that doesnt mean we are poor is not aplicable because if you ask a friend to give you a few dining chairs or a bed, would that not mean that you had serious budget issues esp if you are pretending to be well off?
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>The point is not that individual contirbutions
        should not be made but that the larger issues should also be addressed.
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>Regret once again to have sent this.
        But OG is a continuing dilemma and it is defeatist to give up
        >
        > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
        >
        > > > From: arun parti <arunparti@hotmail. com>
        >
        > > > >>>>>To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups
        .com
        >
        > > > >>>>>Sent: Mon, May 24, 2010 1:24:08 PM
        >
        > > > >>>>>Subject: RE: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani]
        Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>  
        >
        > > > >>>>>Hi Rajesh,
        >
        > > > >>>>>ÂÂÂ
        >
        > > > >>>>>Well said !! I have been regularlyÂÂÂ
        following all the mails on this site. Lets be positive in our thinking!!
        >
        > > > >>>>>ÂÂÂ
        >
        > > > >>>>>Cheers
        >
        > > > >>>>>ÂÂÂ
        >
        > > > >>>>>Parti 1968
        >
        > > > >>>>>____________ _________ _________ __
        >
        > > > To: oakgroveschooljhari pani@yahoogroups .com
        >
        > > > >>>>>From: rajesh.srivastava@ vsnl.com
        >
        > > > >>>>>Date: Mon, 24 May 2010 07:02:57 +0000
        >
        > > > >>>>>Subject: [oakgroveschooljhar ipani]
        Re: Mussoorie
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>  
        >
        > > > >>>>>Carolyn,
        >
        > > > >>>>>I have started believing that there
        can never be a consensus here on this forum. You may be positive in your approach but will in majority of situations will end up being criticized for being optimistic for OG. You rightly said that there was a suggestion on issue of pooling in resources by Ex Oak Grovians last year and some of them had agreed to it. The suggestions of doing for school is really good as other School's alumni too have been doing on large scale (in OG scarcely) but they have not thought even once, why the school Management is not doing this and doing that without they(Alumni) actually doing anything for the school.
        >
        > > > >>>>>ÂÂÂ
        >
        > > > >>>>>We all get and accepts gift on various
        occasions from our friends and relatives, this does not mean that we have become poor or are badly in need of the object being gifted. Here in case of OG, there was a detail discussion between Principal and Rly administration (the content of which is not known to me) on issue of formalisation of issues of donations/scholarsh ips and gifts by Ex Students, the Principal was told that accepting Vehicle was OK but what about the maintenance and diesel expenses and the Rly being a Govt organisation was right in making this obesrvation. He was suggested to go for furniture for the school and consequently Princi made a request for it. His request does not mean that school is in state of penury or has fallen in bad times.
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>Some of us often expect that whatever
        earnings Rly's is getting they should spend it on OG exclusively? Rly has many areas to concentrate and OG is just one of them. Lets accept the fact.  Lets not be sarcastic.
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>Considering the brick bats I usually
        get here on this forum by a select few, I too have started getting disillusioned about everything.  A few days back one of my classmate spoke to me and informed that the story of DPS buying OG is now being floated at one to one level. People don't realise that there are laws in India against such rumors and disinformation campaign.  
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>I too am bowing out of this forum.TOGA-India
        and all the OG related associations please drop your ego as it is not going to take you anywhere. Be constructive, questioning a purpose should be ethical and not biased. People who want to spread stories- it's really good that they have a mind that can hallucinate things, but please remember that there are legal consequences to it too. All of us have our own limit of patience and the testing of patience should be done so that the boundaries of tolerance do not crack.
        >
        > > > >>>>>
        >
        > > > >>>>>Whatever controversy may be, TOGA-India
        guys are going to OG this Founders' to officially donate it on Oak Grovians' behalf.
        >
        > > > >>>>>Sumeet, my dear friend you did a noble
        job by bringing all Oak Grovians together, do something to infuse positivity in us.
        >
        > > > >>>>>Regards & bye to all Oak Grovians.
        >
        > > > >>>>>Rajesh Srivastava
        >
        > > > >>>>>1985
        >



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