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Re: [nyceducationnews] Susan asked us to send you this post from ParentDish

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  • dorooz@aol.com
    I think the article makes the main point. Finland is homogenous. There is no situation of different languages and I do not think they have the same
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 5 1:02 PM
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      I think the article makes the main point.  Finland is homogenous.  There is no situation of different languages and I do not think they have the same societal  concerns that the U.S. particularly large diverse cities face.
       
      Another point might be I believe the Finns have a very high very high tax rate by which the government pays for everything, health care, schools, child care etc. 
       
      This would never fly in the US.
       



       

       
      Dorothy Giglio
      Co President James Madison HS
      Former President President Council Reg 6 HS
      Former President President Council District 22, Brooklyn











    • Diane Ravitch
      Finland has a national curriculum. The following information comes from the Finnish Ministry of Education s website: *Administration system and the curriculum
      Message 2 of 8 , Mar 5 1:11 PM
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        Finland has a national curriculum. The following information comes from the Finnish Ministry of Education's website:
         
        Administration system and the curriculum

        Basic education is governed by the Basic Education Act (628/1998) and Basic Education Decree (852/1998) and the Government Decree on the General National Objectives and Distribution of Lesson Hours in Basic Education (1435/2001). These regulations stipulate such matters as the core subjects taught to all pupils, and the distribution of teaching hours between various subjects. The core subjects taught to all pupils in the basic education syllabus are the mother tongue and literature (Finnish or Swedish), the other official language, one foreign language, environmental studies, health education, religion or ethics, history, social studies, mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, geography, physical education, music, art and crafts, and home economics. Guidance counselling must also be provided for students. In addition, optional subjects are taught, which are determined locally by local authorities and schools.

        The National Board of Education decides on the goals and main content of basic education by setting the national core curriculum, guidelines that govern all the education providers. The national core curriculum defines not only the goals and main content of the various subjects but also so-called cross-curricular themes, which are themes that integrate upbringing and education. The cross-curricular themes help to respond to the educational challenges of the time. The national core curriculum provides rules on such issues as special needs education, student welfare, student evaluation, and co-operation between the home and school. The latest guidelines for the National core curriculum for basic education were issued in 2004.

        Education providers draw up local municipality-specific or school-specific curricula based on the guidelines for the national core curriculum and legislation. The curriculum guides the school's practical teaching and educational work. Parents have the opportunity to participate in drawing up the school's curriculum and in determining educational objectives.

        On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 2:53 PM, Marge Kolb <mkolb62@...> wrote:

        This same info. came out a year or two ago and at that
        time, it was also revealed that in Finland a lot of
        the TV programs have sub-titles rather than being
        dubbed, so people learn to read, and improve their
        reading, by watching certain TV shows....

        I agree with Susan's view about giving children more
        responsibility at an earlier age, but I don't think
        that obviates the need for early childhood education -
        it just means that as children get older, they should
        be given more responsibility at home AND at school. I
        think France provides full-day education for all
        children beginning at age 3 - how did that country do
        on this same international test?

        I think especially in high school, if you let students
        have more freedom (e.g. make it like a college)
        especially in 11th and 12th grade - that helps prepare
        them for the "real" world. My now 19 year-old son went
        from three years of Catholic HS - with uniforms, lots
        of structure etc. - to spending his senior year at
        City-As-School-Manhattan - where he had work
        internships for 2 or 3 days a week and took College
        Now classes at John Jay and The New School. Instead of
        spending 5 or 6 hours, five days a week, sitting in
        high school classes (which he was sleeping through
        during his junior year), he was out and about with a
        different schedule every day and getting high school
        credit for taking college classes.

        Marge Kolb
        D24, Queens

        --- Diane Ravitch <gardendr@...> wrote:

        > 2 answers:
        >
        > Finnish children have Finnish parents, i.e.,
        > literate, educated families.
        > Finland has very little social inequality or
        > poverty.
        >
        > Both are interconnected and facilitate school
        > success.
        >
        > Diane Ravitch
        >
        > On Wed, Mar 5, 2008 at 10:45 AM, <SusanCNYC@...>
        > wrote:
        >
        > > From: ParentDish <http://www.parentdish.com/>
        > > URL:
        >
        http://www.parentdish.com/2008/03/04/why-are-finnish-kids-so-smart/
        > > Sent from: Susan
        > <SusanCNYC@...>(SusanCNYC@...)
        > > Sent to: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
        > > Comments: Plus ... Finnish kids get up and
        > exercise every hour or so.
        > > ------------------------------
        > > Why are Finnish kids so smart?
        > <http://%25posturl/> 03-04-2008
        > >
        > > According to a recent Wall Street Journal
        >
        article,<http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120425355065601997.html>Finnish
        > kids are some of the smartest in the world. The
        > Finns received
        > > international attention for student performance on
        > triennial tests sponsored
        > > by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and
        > Development--a group
        > > founded by 30 countries that monitors social and
        > economic trends. The
        > > results from the most recent test found Finnish
        > kids to be first in science
        > > world wide, and near the top in math and reading.
        > >
        > > Since the results were released, the United States
        > Department of Education
        > > has spent time researching and observing Finland's
        > educational system. Their
        > > findings? Finnish kids start school at age 7, and
        > when they do begin
        > > school, they are treated more like adults than
        > their U.S.
        >
        counterparts.<http://forums.wsj.com/viewtopic.php?t=1591>
        > >
        > > "There are no Internet filters on school
        > computers, there's no tardy bell,
        > > and even younger children are expected to make
        > their own way to school and
        > > pick out their own meals at lunch time. Finnish
        > teachers are also given more
        > > flexibility to design their own curriculum, and
        > there is much less focus on
        > > testing."
        > >
        > > In other words, kids come to school more mature
        > and prepared, and are
        > > expected to take responsibility for their learning
        > and themselves from the
        > > get go. By comparison, many children start first
        > grade as young as 5 years
        > > old in the United States, and their activities are
        > highly structured by
        > > adults: from coat zipping, to busing; from after
        > school sports to
        > > standardized tests.
        > >
        > > Finland's population is much more homogeneous than
        > the United States
        > > however, and college is free to all Finns, which
        > are two other factors that
        > > I think significantly contribute to the success of
        > Finnish children in
        > > school. With less economic and social diversity,
        > children are more likely to
        > > start with a similar skill set when they come to
        > school in first grade, and
        > > because college is funded by the government, I
        > think that students likely
        > > learn to focus less on the outcome and more on the
        > process of learning.
        > >
        > > I'm interested to hear what people think of the
        > differences? Would you
        > > support a later starting age for first graders
        > here in the U.S.? I've
        > > asked before if parents think that as a culture
        > we're bubble wrapping our
        > > kids here in the U.S., and this study may give
        > this argument a new angle.
        > > Do we expect too little responsibility from our
        > kids? As a teacher I do
        > > think that many younger children are not yet ready
        > to be in first grade at
        > > the beginning of the year, and that nearly all
        > first graders in my class
        > > struggle to keep track of their belongings, tie
        > their shoes, and make good
        > > choices about lunch or recess games.
        > >
        > > What do you think?
        > > [Gallery Removed for Email]
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >

        __________________________________________________________
        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
        http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


      • Leonie Haimson
        Actually Finland spends the same % of GDP on education as the US; they spend almost none of it on standardized testing or technology. Their teachers are
        Message 3 of 8 , Mar 5 1:22 PM
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          Actually Finland spends the same % of GDP on education as the US; they spend almost none of it on standardized testing or  technology.  Their teachers are well-paid and well-respected and they have small classes.  Each child receives what is regarded as an individualized education.

           

          Leonie Haimson

          Executive Director

          Class Size Matters

          124 Waverly Pl.

          New York, NY 10011

          212-674-7320

          leonie@...

          www.classsizematters.org

          http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/

           

          Please make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!

           


          From: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dorooz@...
          Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:03 PM
          To: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Susan asked us to send you this post from ParentDish

           

          I think the article makes the main point.  Finland is homogenous.  There is no situation of different languages and I do not think they have the same societal  concerns that the U.S. particularly large diverse cities face.

           

          Another point might be I believe the Finns have a very high very high tax rate by which the government pays for everything, health care, schools, child care etc. 

           

          This would never fly in the US .

           



           

           

          Dorothy Giglio
          Co President James Madison HS
          Former President President Council Reg 6 HS
          Former President President Council District 22, Brooklyn








        • Lisa Donlan
          I just attended the TC event on NCLB posted on this list, in which Thomas Rogers, of the NYS Council of School Superintendents, indicated that the US is
          Message 4 of 8 , Mar 5 5:16 PM
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            I just attended the TC event on NCLB posted on this list, in which Thomas Rogers, of the NYS Council of School Superintendents,  indicated that the US is ranked 24/25 countries (Mexico was 25) for child poverty rates at 22%. Finland was below 5%. He said the power point was on his organization's website and the slide he showed cited the OECD as the source of data, if anyone wants to check it out further. 
            Lisa donlan

            To: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
            From: leonie@...
            Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 16:22:14 -0500
            Subject: RE: [nyceducationnews] Susan asked us to send you this post from ParentDish

            Actually Finland spends the same % of GDP on education as the US; they spend almost none of it on standardized testing or  technology.  Their teachers are well-paid and well-respected and they have small classes.  Each child receives what is regarded as an individualized education.

             

            Leonie Haimson

            Executive Director

            Class Size Matters

            124 Waverly Pl.

            New York, NY 10011

                                 212-674-7320         

            leonie@...

            www.classsizematter s.org

            http://nycpublicsch oolparents. blogspot. com/

             

            Please make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!

             


            From: nyceducationnews@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:nyceducatio nnews@yahoogroup s.com] On Behalf Of dorooz@...
            Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 4:03 PM
            To: nyceducationnews@ yahoogroups. com
            Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Susan asked us to send you this post from ParentDish

             

            I think the article makes the main point.  Finland is homogenous.  There is no situation of different languages and I do not think they have the same societal  concerns that the U.S. particularly large diverse cities face.

             

            Another point might be I believe the Finns have a very high very high tax rate by which the government pays for everything, health care, schools, child care etc. 

             

            This would never fly in the US.

             



             

             

            Dorothy Giglio
            Co President James Madison HS
            Former President President Council Reg 6 HS
            Former President President Council District 22, Brooklyn











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