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Re: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"

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  • Jane Reiff
    It really does not matter the DOE does not have the right to give out the information without permission. Jane ... From: Jim Devor To:
    Message 1 of 18 , May 27, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      It really does not matter the DOE does not have the right to give out the information without permission.
      Jane
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Jim Devor
      Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 2:51 PM
      Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"

       


      NONE. The DoE has now withdrawn its FERPA defense (which did not even conceivably apply anyway since we never asked for records "directly related to a students", but rather separately maintained Parent Leader Contact information).
      __________
      Jim Devor

      --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, lwinds@... wrote:
      >
      > Also, on the PA certification form that every new executive board fills
      > out after their spring elections has a box for each one to check off if they
      > want their presidents council to have their email and phone number.
      > No where is there a place for PAs to check off if they want their personal
      > info shared with candidates. So if the DOE did share this info with
      > candidates, what law is this breaking???
      >
      >
      > Laurie
      >
      >
      > In a message dated 5/22/2013 10:22:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      > jesnik@... writes:
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Just to address the portion of your comments about the lawsuit challenging
      > the DoE's refusal to disclose Selector e-mail addresses I personally do
      > not want my information shared with candidates but you certainly have the
      > right to contact the schools and ask to come speak with the selectors since
      > every school has them. Funny how we fight against our information being
      > shared but for this it is OK. Somewhat of a double standard don't you think?
      > Jane
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: _Jim Devor_ (mailto:jimdevor@...)
      > To: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
      > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com)
      > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 5:15 PM
      > Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
      >
      >
      >
      > Deb, et al.
      >
      > This has been a thorn in my side for a number of years. D2 is virtually
      > unique among school districts in having entire High Schools that are BOTH
      > "selective" AND "zoned".
      >
      > Not surprisingly, this unique combination has forseeably resulted in some
      > of the most segregated High Schools (outside of the SHSAT "specialized
      > schools") in the entire City. The Black and Hispanic populations of both ElRo
      > and Baruch total only about twenty percent. Meanwhile, comparable schools
      > like Bard and Beacon - which are not zoned - have Black & Hispanic
      > populations of about one-third.
      >
      > These admissions policies for the D2 schools are simply obvious
      > manifestations of institutionalized racism at its most elemental. If there was any
      > doubt, one only need to look at the Manhattan Village Academy - a "selective
      > school" located a few blocks from Baruch. That school is zoned for all of
      > Manhattan (i.e. including Harlem and Washington Heights) and has a student
      > body that is over ninety percent Black and Hispanic
      >
      > To claim they were "grandfathered" is a crock. My repeated requests of the
      > DoE to supply me with documentation of the origins of these schools'
      > admissions policies has consistently been rebuffed (with, to be fair, the
      > exception of Millennium HS). Furthermore, to the extent those other schools were
      > "grandfathered" as part of D2 - rather than under the direct supervision of
      > the Chancellor like other High Schools - does anyone else seem bothered
      > that the CEC for D2 has no authority or oversight over these supposedly
      > "grandfathered" D2 schools?
      >
      > BTW, the institutionalized racism of D2 High School admissions was a
      > cornerstone of my campaign for a Manhattan slot on the CCHS. That I was not
      > allowed by the DoE to adequately communicate that to the PTA Selectors was the
      > fundamental reason I joined the lawsuit challenging the DoE's refusal to
      > disclose Selector e-mail addresses. The facilitation of discussion of such
      > important education policies among public school parents certainly justifies,
      > IMHO, the inconvenience the lawsuit may cause.
      >
      > Finally, I would LOVE to see the admissions policies of those D2 High
      > Schools added to the most recent Title VI complaint filed with the U.S. Office
      > of Educational Opportunity.
      > _______________
      > Jim Devor; (soon to be former) President, CEC-15
      >
      > --- In _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
      > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) , Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Leonie--
      > > Is this good or bad? I think Tony's intentions were very important and
      > wise, but... There are complicated trade-offs. Eleanor Roosevelt did the
      > same thing--and I opposed it given the district involved.
      > >
      > > Deb
      > > -----
      > > Deborah Meier
      > >
      > > Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda
      > Engel and Beth Taylor
      > >
      > > NOTE: new e-mail address. deborahmeier@
      > >
      > > For more information see website: _http://www.deborahmeier.com_
      > (http://www.deborahmeier.com/)
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > On May 22, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Leonie Haimson wrote:
      > >
      > > >
      > > > Susan: This started way before ElRo or Eva M. with Tony Alvarado, who
      > when he was Superintendent of D2 created several HS that would be under D2
      > control and would give preference to D2 students, including Baruch and
      > several more.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > These schools give preference to D2 students but do not officially
      > limit enrollment, and several thousand non D2 students apply each year with
      > very little chance of acceptance.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Millenium is another one that gives preference to Lower Manhattan D2
      > students, in part because LMDC providing funding for the school.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Leonie Haimson
      > > >
      > > > Executive Director
      > > >
      > > > Class Size Matters
      > > >
      > > > 124 Waverly Pl.
      > > >
      > > > New York, NY 10011
      > > >
      > > > 212-674-7320
      > > >
      > > > leonie@
      > > >
      > > > www.classsizematters.org
      > > >
      > > > _http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com_
      > (http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/)
      > > >
      > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonie-haimson
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing
      > _classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)
      > > >
      > > > Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing
      > _nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > From: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
      > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
      > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Susan Crawford
      > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:49 AM
      > > > To: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
      > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com)
      > > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Kips Bay school situation reminded me of the recurring ire over the
      > fact that D-2 can limit its HS applications to D-2 students.
      > > >
      > > > I remembered this dated at least to the opening of Eleanor Roosevelt
      > HS, if not before. When El-Ro was opening, there was
      > > >
      > > > community dismay at the thought that anyone other than D-2 students
      > would be considered, even though the DOE was launching
      > > >
      > > > its "citywide" (i.e., no more local high schools) agenda. Not to
      > worry. Just let D-2 attend to its own students, regardless of
      > > >
      > > > what was happening in the rest of the city.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Who was representing much of CDEC-2 at that time? One Eva Moskowitz,
      > then-chair of the City Council education committee. Here
      > > >
      > > > she is, waxing rhapsodic about public education, representing "Museum
      > Mile," etc. (This was before she became a resident
      > > >
      > > > of Harlem, the better to seem "local" as her charter chain
      > proliferated.)
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > http://gothamist.com/2005/07/26/eva_moskowitz_city_council_member.php
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Also representing much of CDEC-2 throughout this time has been
      > Christine Quinn.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > When asked at a recent D-3 CEC mtg. about the exclusive D-2 HS policy,
      > Ch. Walcott described it as having been "grandfathered"
      > > >
      > > > in. No saying if when Beacon takes up residence in D-2, which it will
      > soon, whether it will share the same "grandfather." Also, no
      > > >
      > > > saying who exactly was the "grandfather" or "godfather" of this
      > policy, though we can surmise from the above who the "godmothers" were.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Susan
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >

    • Jim Devor
      Jane, Did you give permission to have your name and street address publicized by virtue of your registering to vote? Did teachers give permission to have
      Message 2 of 18 , May 27, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Jane,

        Did you give "permission" to have your name and street address publicized by virtue of your registering to vote? Did teachers give "permission" to have their names "outed" in the ratings imbroglio? The NYS Courts consistently held (wrongly, IMHO) it was not necessary.

        Do PTA officers need to give "permission" before their phone numbers and emails are posted on school bulletin boards? Chancellor's Regulation A-660 says absolutely not. Should PTA Officer e-mail lists separately maintained by FACE be held "confidential"? Both FOIL and the First Amendment stand otherwise.

        What's so hard to understand? People who voluntarily choose to represent others lose large pieces of their rights to anonymity. If that really is so unacceptable to you, then you should immediately resign from your PTA Presidency (and President's Council position no less). Then, frankly, other parents and the press won't care nearly as much who you are. Problem solved.

        --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, "Jane Reiff" <jesnik@...> wrote:
        >
        > It really does not matter the DOE does not have the right to give out the information without permission.
        > Jane
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Jim Devor
        > To: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
        > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 2:51 PM
        > Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > NONE. The DoE has now withdrawn its FERPA defense (which did not even conceivably apply anyway since we never asked for records "directly related to a student", but rather separately maintained Parent Leader Contact information).
        > __________
        > Jim Devor
        >
        > --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, lwinds@ wrote:
        > >
        > > Also, on the PA certification form that every new executive board fills
        > > out after their spring elections has a box for each one to check off if they
        > > want their presidents council to have their email and phone number.
        > > No where is there a place for PAs to check off if they want their personal
        > > info shared with candidates. So if the DOE did share this info with
        > > candidates, what law is this breaking???
        > >
        > >
        > > Laurie
        > >
        > >
        > > In a message dated 5/22/2013 10:22:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        > > jesnik@ writes:
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Just to address the portion of your comments about the lawsuit challenging
        > > the DoE's refusal to disclose Selector e-mail addresses I personally do
        > > not want my information shared with candidates but you certainly have the
        > > right to contact the schools and ask to come speak with the selectors since
        > > every school has them. Funny how we fight against our information being
        > > shared but for this it is OK. Somewhat of a double standard don't you think?
        > > Jane
        > >
        > > ----- Original Message -----
        > > From: _Jim Devor_ (mailto:jimdevor@)
        > > To: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
        > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com)
        > > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 5:15 PM
        > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Deb, et al.
        > >
        > > This has been a thorn in my side for a number of years. D2 is virtually
        > > unique among school districts in having entire High Schools that are BOTH
        > > "selective" AND "zoned".
        > >
        > > Not surprisingly, this unique combination has forseeably resulted in some
        > > of the most segregated High Schools (outside of the SHSAT "specialized
        > > schools") in the entire City. The Black and Hispanic populations of both ElRo
        > > and Baruch total only about twenty percent. Meanwhile, comparable schools
        > > like Bard and Beacon - which are not zoned - have Black & Hispanic
        > > populations of about one-third.
        > >
        > > These admissions policies for the D2 schools are simply obvious
        > > manifestations of institutionalized racism at its most elemental. If there was any
        > > doubt, one only need to look at the Manhattan Village Academy - a "selective
        > > school" located a few blocks from Baruch. That school is zoned for all of
        > > Manhattan (i.e. including Harlem and Washington Heights) and has a student
        > > body that is over ninety percent Black and Hispanic
        > >
        > > To claim they were "grandfathered" is a crock. My repeated requests of the
        > > DoE to supply me with documentation of the origins of these schools'
        > > admissions policies has consistently been rebuffed (with, to be fair, the
        > > exception of Millennium HS). Furthermore, to the extent those other schools were
        > > "grandfathered" as part of D2 - rather than under the direct supervision of
        > > the Chancellor like other High Schools - does anyone else seem bothered
        > > that the CEC for D2 has no authority or oversight over these supposedly
        > > "grandfathered" D2 schools?
        > >
        > > BTW, the institutionalized racism of D2 High School admissions was a
        > > cornerstone of my campaign for a Manhattan slot on the CCHS. That I was not
        > > allowed by the DoE to adequately communicate that to the PTA Selectors was the
        > > fundamental reason I joined the lawsuit challenging the DoE's refusal to
        > > disclose Selector e-mail addresses. The facilitation of discussion of such
        > > important education policies among public school parents certainly justifies,
        > > IMHO, the inconvenience the lawsuit may cause.
        > >
        > > Finally, I would LOVE to see the admissions policies of those D2 High
        > > Schools added to the most recent Title VI complaint filed with the U.S. Office
        > > of Educational Opportunity.
        > > _______________
        > > Jim Devor; (soon to be former) President, CEC-15
        > >
        > > --- In _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
        > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) , Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Leonie--
        > > > Is this good or bad? I think Tony's intentions were very important and
        > > wise, but... There are complicated trade-offs. Eleanor Roosevelt did the
        > > same thing--and I opposed it given the district involved.
        > > >
        > > > Deb
        > > > -----
        > > > Deborah Meier
        > > >
        > > > Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda
        > > Engel and Beth Taylor
        > > >
        > > > NOTE: new e-mail address. deborahmeier@
        > > >
        > > > For more information see website: _http://www.deborahmeier.com_
        > > (http://www.deborahmeier.com/)
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On May 22, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Leonie Haimson wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Susan: This started way before ElRo or Eva M. with Tony Alvarado, who
        > > when he was Superintendent of D2 created several HS that would be under D2
        > > control and would give preference to D2 students, including Baruch and
        > > several more.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > These schools give preference to D2 students but do not officially
        > > limit enrollment, and several thousand non D2 students apply each year with
        > > very little chance of acceptance.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Millenium is another one that gives preference to Lower Manhattan D2
        > > students, in part because LMDC providing funding for the school.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Leonie Haimson
        > > > >
        > > > > Executive Director
        > > > >
        > > > > Class Size Matters
        > > > >
        > > > > 124 Waverly Pl.
        > > > >
        > > > > New York, NY 10011
        > > > >
        > > > > 212-674-7320
        > > > >
        > > > > leonie@
        > > > >
        > > > > www.classsizematters.org
        > > > >
        > > > > _http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com_
        > > (http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/)
        > > > >
        > > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonie-haimson
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing
        > > _classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)
        > > > >
        > > > > Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing
        > > _nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > From: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
        > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
        > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Susan Crawford
        > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:49 AM
        > > > > To: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
        > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com)
        > > > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Kips Bay school situation reminded me of the recurring ire over the
        > > fact that D-2 can limit its HS applications to D-2 students.
        > > > >
        > > > > I remembered this dated at least to the opening of Eleanor Roosevelt
        > > HS, if not before. When El-Ro was opening, there was
        > > > >
        > > > > community dismay at the thought that anyone other than D-2 students
        > > would be considered, even though the DOE was launching
        > > > >
        > > > > its "citywide" (i.e., no more local high schools) agenda. Not to
        > > worry. Just let D-2 attend to its own students, regardless of
        > > > >
        > > > > what was happening in the rest of the city.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Who was representing much of CDEC-2 at that time? One Eva Moskowitz,
        > > then-chair of the City Council education committee. Here
        > > > >
        > > > > she is, waxing rhapsodic about public education, representing "Museum
        > > Mile," etc. (This was before she became a resident
        > > > >
        > > > > of Harlem, the better to seem "local" as her charter chain
        > > proliferated.)
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > http://gothamist.com/2005/07/26/eva_moskowitz_city_council_member.php
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Also representing much of CDEC-2 throughout this time has been
        > > Christine Quinn.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > When asked at a recent D-3 CEC mtg. about the exclusive D-2 HS policy,
        > > Ch. Walcott described it as having been "grandfathered"
        > > > >
        > > > > in. No saying if when Beacon takes up residence in D-2, which it will
        > > soon, whether it will share the same "grandfather." Also, no
        > > > >
        > > > > saying who exactly was the "grandfather" or "godfather" of this
        > > policy, though we can surmise from the above who the "godmothers" were.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Susan
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • stanleymng
        Did teachers give permission to have their names outed in the ratings imbroglio? The NYS Courts consistently held (wrongly, IMHO) it was not necessary.
        Message 3 of 18 , May 28, 2013
        • 0 Attachment

          Did teachers give "permission" to have their names "outed" in the ratings imbroglio? The NYS Courts consistently held (wrongly, IMHO) it was not necessary.

          Teachers are NYS/NYC employees. Are you making a case that PTA/PA officers are also to be considered 'employees' ?

          Stanley Ng


          --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Devor" wrote:
          >
          > Jane,
          >
          > Did you give "permission" to have your name and street address publicized by virtue of your registering to vote? Did teachers give "permission" to have their names "outed" in the ratings imbroglio? The NYS Courts consistently held (wrongly, IMHO) it was not necessary.
          >
          > Do PTA officers need to give "permission" before their phone numbers and emails are posted on school bulletin boards? Chancellor's Regulation A-660 says absolutely not. Should PTA Officer e-mail lists separately maintained by FACE be held "confidential"? Both FOIL and the First Amendment stand otherwise.
          >
          > What's so hard to understand? People who voluntarily choose to represent others lose large pieces of their rights to anonymity. If that really is so unacceptable to you, then you should immediately resign from your PTA Presidency (and President's Council position no less). Then, frankly, other parents and the press won't care nearly as much who you are. Problem solved.
          >
          > --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, "Jane Reiff" jesnik@ wrote:
          > >
          > > It really does not matter the DOE does not have the right to give out the information without permission.
          > > Jane
          > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > From: Jim Devor
          > > To: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
          > > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 2:51 PM
          > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > NONE. The DoE has now withdrawn its FERPA defense (which did not even conceivably apply anyway since we never asked for records "directly related to a student", but rather separately maintained Parent Leader Contact information).
          > > __________
          > > Jim Devor
          > >
          > > --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, lwinds@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Also, on the PA certification form that every new executive board fills
          > > > out after their spring elections has a box for each one to check off if they
          > > > want their presidents council to have their email and phone number.
          > > > No where is there a place for PAs to check off if they want their personal
          > > > info shared with candidates. So if the DOE did share this info with
          > > > candidates, what law is this breaking???
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Laurie
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > In a message dated 5/22/2013 10:22:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          > > > jesnik@ writes:
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Just to address the portion of your comments about the lawsuit challenging
          > > > the DoE's refusal to disclose Selector e-mail addresses I personally do
          > > > not want my information shared with candidates but you certainly have the
          > > > right to contact the schools and ask to come speak with the selectors since
          > > > every school has them. Funny how we fight against our information being
          > > > shared but for this it is OK. Somewhat of a double standard don't you think?
          > > > Jane
          > > >
          > > > ----- Original Message -----
          > > > From: _Jim Devor_ (mailto:jimdevor@)
          > > > To: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
          > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com)
          > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 5:15 PM
          > > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Deb, et al.
          > > >
          > > > This has been a thorn in my side for a number of years. D2 is virtually
          > > > unique among school districts in having entire High Schools that are BOTH
          > > > "selective" AND "zoned".
          > > >
          > > > Not surprisingly, this unique combination has forseeably resulted in some
          > > > of the most segregated High Schools (outside of the SHSAT "specialized
          > > > schools") in the entire City. The Black and Hispanic populations of both ElRo
          > > > and Baruch total only about twenty percent. Meanwhile, comparable schools
          > > > like Bard and Beacon - which are not zoned - have Black & Hispanic
          > > > populations of about one-third.
          > > >
          > > > These admissions policies for the D2 schools are simply obvious
          > > > manifestations of institutionalized racism at its most elemental. If there was any
          > > > doubt, one only need to look at the Manhattan Village Academy - a "selective
          > > > school" located a few blocks from Baruch. That school is zoned for all of
          > > > Manhattan (i.e. including Harlem and Washington Heights) and has a student
          > > > body that is over ninety percent Black and Hispanic
          > > >
          > > > To claim they were "grandfathered" is a crock. My repeated requests of the
          > > > DoE to supply me with documentation of the origins of these schools'
          > > > admissions policies has consistently been rebuffed (with, to be fair, the
          > > > exception of Millennium HS). Furthermore, to the extent those other schools were
          > > > "grandfathered" as part of D2 - rather than under the direct supervision of
          > > > the Chancellor like other High Schools - does anyone else seem bothered
          > > > that the CEC for D2 has no authority or oversight over these supposedly
          > > > "grandfathered" D2 schools?
          > > >
          > > > BTW, the institutionalized racism of D2 High School admissions was a
          > > > cornerstone of my campaign for a Manhattan slot on the CCHS. That I was not
          > > > allowed by the DoE to adequately communicate that to the PTA Selectors was the
          > > > fundamental reason I joined the lawsuit challenging the DoE's refusal to
          > > > disclose Selector e-mail addresses. The facilitation of discussion of such
          > > > important education policies among public school parents certainly justifies,
          > > > IMHO, the inconvenience the lawsuit may cause.
          > > >
          > > > Finally, I would LOVE to see the admissions policies of those D2 High
          > > > Schools added to the most recent Title VI complaint filed with the U.S. Office
          > > > of Educational Opportunity.
          > > > _______________
          > > > Jim Devor; (soon to be former) President, CEC-15
          > > >
          > > > --- In _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
          > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) , Deborah Meier wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Leonie--
          > > > > Is this good or bad? I think Tony's intentions were very important and
          > > > wise, but... There are complicated trade-offs. Eleanor Roosevelt did the
          > > > same thing--and I opposed it given the district involved.
          > > > >
          > > > > Deb
          > > > > -----
          > > > > Deborah Meier
          > > > >
          > > > > Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda
          > > > Engel and Beth Taylor
          > > > >
          > > > > NOTE: new e-mail address. deborahmeier@
          > > > >
          > > > > For more information see website: _http://www.deborahmeier.com_
          > > > (http://www.deborahmeier.com/)
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > On May 22, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Leonie Haimson wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Susan: This started way before ElRo or Eva M. with Tony Alvarado, who
          > > > when he was Superintendent of D2 created several HS that would be under D2
          > > > control and would give preference to D2 students, including Baruch and
          > > > several more.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > These schools give preference to D2 students but do not officially
          > > > limit enrollment, and several thousand non D2 students apply each year with
          > > > very little chance of acceptance.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Millenium is another one that gives preference to Lower Manhattan D2
          > > > students, in part because LMDC providing funding for the school.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Leonie Haimson
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Executive Director
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Class Size Matters
          > > > > >
          > > > > > 124 Waverly Pl.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > New York, NY 10011
          > > > > >
          > > > > > 212-674-7320
          > > > > >
          > > > > > leonie@
          > > > > >
          > > > > > www.classsizematters.org
          > > > > >
          > > > > > _http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com_
          > > > (http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/)
          > > > > >
          > > > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonie-haimson
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing
          > > > _classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing
          > > > _nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > From: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
          > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
          > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Susan Crawford
          > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:49 AM
          > > > > > To: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
          > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com)
          > > > > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Kips Bay school situation reminded me of the recurring ire over the
          > > > fact that D-2 can limit its HS applications to D-2 students.
          > > > > >
          > > > > > I remembered this dated at least to the opening of Eleanor Roosevelt
          > > > HS, if not before. When El-Ro was opening, there was
          > > > > >
          > > > > > community dismay at the thought that anyone other than D-2 students
          > > > would be considered, even though the DOE was launching
          > > > > >
          > > > > > its "citywide" (i.e., no more local high schools) agenda. Not to
          > > > worry. Just let D-2 attend to its own students, regardless of
          > > > > >
          > > > > > what was happening in the rest of the city.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Who was representing much of CDEC-2 at that time? One Eva Moskowitz,
          > > > then-chair of the City Council education committee. Here
          > > > > >
          > > > > > she is, waxing rhapsodic about public education, representing "Museum
          > > > Mile," etc. (This was before she became a resident
          > > > > >
          > > > > > of Harlem, the better to seem "local" as her charter chain
          > > > proliferated.)
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > http://gothamist.com/2005/07/26/eva_moskowitz_city_council_member.php
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Also representing much of CDEC-2 throughout this time has been
          > > > Christine Quinn.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > When asked at a recent D-3 CEC mtg. about the exclusive D-2 HS policy,
          > > > Ch. Walcott described it as having been "grandfathered"
          > > > > >
          > > > > > in. No saying if when Beacon takes up residence in D-2, which it will
          > > > soon, whether it will share the same "grandfather." Also, no
          > > > > >
          > > > > > saying who exactly was the "grandfather" or "godfather" of this
          > > > policy, though we can surmise from the above who the "godmothers" were.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > Susan
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >

        • Jane Reiff
          Jim, There are rules and regs about names and information on Parent leaders and what is public so yes there is an intended permission when elected what gets
          Message 4 of 18 , May 29, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Jim,
            There are rules and regs about names and information on Parent leaders and what is public so yes there is an intended permission when elected what gets posted in a school or letter. Unforunately from reading your post I do not think you truly understand the volunteer PTA/PA roles and I have a feeling you never were in this role. I also see you are confusing city and state laws to DOE regulations. Perhaps when you have more and correct information there can be a discussion.
            Jane
            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Tuesday, May 28, 2013 2:24 PM
            Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"

             

            Did teachers give "permission" to have their names "outed" in the ratings imbroglio? The NYS Courts consistently held (wrongly, IMHO) it was not necessary.

            Teachers are NYS/NYC employees. Are you making a case that PTA/PA officers are also to be considered 'employees' ?

            Stanley Ng


            --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Devor" wrote:
            >
            > Jane,
            >
            > Did you give "permission" to have your name and street address publicized by virtue of your registering to vote? Did teachers give "permission" to have their names "outed" in the ratings imbroglio? The NYS Courts consistently held (wrongly, IMHO) it was not necessary.
            >
            > Do PTA officers need to give "permission" before their phone numbers and emails are posted on school bulletin boards? Chancellor's Regulation A-660 says absolutely not. Should PTA Officer e-mail lists separately maintained by FACE be held "confidential"? Both FOIL and the First Amendment stand otherwise.
            >
            > What's so hard to understand? People who voluntarily choose to represent others lose large pieces of their rights to anonymity. If that really is so unacceptable to you, then you should immediately resign from your PTA Presidency (and President's Council position no less). Then, frankly, other parents and the press won't care nearly as much who you are. Problem solved.
            >
            > --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, "Jane Reiff" jesnik@ wrote:
            > >
            > > It really does not matter the DOE does not have the right to give out the information without permission.
            > > Jane
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Jim Devor
            > > To: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2013 2:51 PM
            > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > NONE. The DoE has now withdrawn its FERPA defense (which did not even conceivably apply anyway since we never asked for records "directly related to a student", but rather separately maintained Parent Leader Contact information).
            > > __________
            > > Jim Devor
            > >
            > > --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, lwinds@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Also, on the PA certification form that every new executive board fills
            > > > out after their spring elections has a box for each one to check off if they
            > > > want their presidents council to have their email and phone number.
            > > > No where is there a place for PAs to check off if they want their personal
            > > > info shared with candidates. So if the DOE did share this info with
            > > > candidates, what law is this breaking???
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Laurie
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > In a message dated 5/22/2013 10:22:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
            > > > jesnik@ writes:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Just to address the portion of your comments about the lawsuit challenging
            > > > the DoE's refusal to disclose Selector e-mail addresses I personally do
            > > > not want my information shared with candidates but you certainly have the
            > > > right to contact the schools and ask to come speak with the selectors since
            > > > every school has them. Funny how we fight against our information being
            > > > shared but for this it is OK. Somewhat of a double standard don't you think?
            > > > Jane
            > > >
            > > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > > From: _Jim Devor_ (mailto:jimdevor@)
            > > > To: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
            > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com)
            > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 5:15 PM
            > > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] Re: CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Deb, et al.
            > > >
            > > > This has been a thorn in my side for a number of years. D2 is virtually
            > > > unique among school districts in having entire High Schools that are BOTH
            > > > "selective" AND "zoned".
            > > >
            > > > Not surprisingly, this unique combination has forseeably resulted in some
            > > > of the most segregated High Schools (outside of the SHSAT "specialized
            > > > schools") in the entire City. The Black and Hispanic populations of both ElRo
            > > > and Baruch total only about twenty percent. Meanwhile, comparable schools
            > > > like Bard and Beacon - which are not zoned - have Black & Hispanic
            > > > populations of about one-third.
            > > >
            > > > These admissions policies for the D2 schools are simply obvious
            > > > manifestations of institutionalized racism at its most elemental. If there was any
            > > > doubt, one only need to look at the Manhattan Village Academy - a "selective
            > > > school" located a few blocks from Baruch. That school is zoned for all of
            > > > Manhattan (i.e. including Harlem and Washington Heights) and has a student
            > > > body that is over ninety percent Black and Hispanic
            > > >
            > > > To claim they were "grandfathered" is a crock. My repeated requests of the
            > > > DoE to supply me with documentation of the origins of these schools'
            > > > admissions policies has consistently been rebuffed (with, to be fair, the
            > > > exception of Millennium HS). Furthermore, to the extent those other schools were
            > > > "grandfathered" as part of D2 - rather than under the direct supervision of
            > > > the Chancellor like other High Schools - does anyone else seem bothered
            > > > that the CEC for D2 has no authority or oversight over these supposedly
            > > > "grandfathered" D2 schools?
            > > >
            > > > BTW, the institutionalized racism of D2 High School admissions was a
            > > > cornerstone of my campaign for a Manhattan slot on the CCHS. That I was not
            > > > allowed by the DoE to adequately communicate that to the PTA Selectors was the
            > > > fundamental reason I joined the lawsuit challenging the DoE's refusal to
            > > > disclose Selector e-mail addresses. The facilitation of discussion of such
            > > > important education policies among public school parents certainly justifies,
            > > > IMHO, the inconvenience the lawsuit may cause.
            > > >
            > > > Finally, I would LOVE to see the admissions policies of those D2 High
            > > > Schools added to the most recent Title VI complaint filed with the U.S. Office
            > > > of Educational Opportunity.
            > > > _______________
            > > > Jim Devor; (soon to be former) President, CEC-15
            > > >
            > > > --- In _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
            > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) , Deborah Meier wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Leonie--
            > > > > Is this good or bad? I think Tony's intentions were very important and
            > > > wise, but... There are complicated trade-offs. Eleanor Roosevelt did the
            > > > same thing--and I opposed it given the district involved.
            > > > >
            > > > > Deb
            > > > > -----
            > > > > Deborah Meier
            > > > >
            > > > > Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda
            > > > Engel and Beth Taylor
            > > > >
            > > > > NOTE: new e-mail address. deborahmeier@
            > > > >
            > > > > For more information see website: _http://www.deborahmeier.com_
            > > > (http://www.deborahmeier.com/)
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > On May 22, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Leonie Haimson wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Susan: This started way before ElRo or Eva M. with Tony Alvarado, who
            > > > when he was Superintendent of D2 created several HS that would be under D2
            > > > control and would give preference to D2 students, including Baruch and
            > > > several more.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > These schools give preference to D2 students but do not officially
            > > > limit enrollment, and several thousand non D2 students apply each year with
            > > > very little chance of acceptance.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Millenium is another one that gives preference to Lower Manhattan D2
            > > > students, in part because LMDC providing funding for the school.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Leonie Haimson
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Executive Director
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Class Size Matters
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 124 Waverly Pl.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > New York, NY 10011
            > > > > >
            > > > > > 212-674-7320
            > > > > >
            > > > > > leonie@
            > > > > >
            > > > > > www.classsizematters.org
            > > > > >
            > > > > > _http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com_
            > > > (http://nycpublicschoolparents.blogspot.com/)
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leonie-haimson
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing
            > > > _classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing
            > > > _nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com)
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > From: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
            > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) [mailto:_nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
            > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Susan Crawford
            > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 10:49 AM
            > > > > > To: _nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com_
            > > > (mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com)
            > > > > > Subject: [nyceducationnews] CDEC-2 and its exclusivity "grandfather"
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Kips Bay school situation reminded me of the recurring ire over the
            > > > fact that D-2 can limit its HS applications to D-2 students.
            > > > > >
            > > > > > I remembered this dated at least to the opening of Eleanor Roosevelt
            > > > HS, if not before. When El-Ro was opening, there was
            > > > > >
            > > > > > community dismay at the thought that anyone other than D-2 students
            > > > would be considered, even though the DOE was launching
            > > > > >
            > > > > > its "citywide" (i.e., no more local high schools) agenda. Not to
            > > > worry. Just let D-2 attend to its own students, regardless of
            > > > > >
            > > > > > what was happening in the rest of the city.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Who was representing much of CDEC-2 at that time? One Eva Moskowitz,
            > > > then-chair of the City Council education committee. Here
            > > > > >
            > > > > > she is, waxing rhapsodic about public education, representing "Museum
            > > > Mile," etc. (This was before she became a resident
            > > > > >
            > > > > > of Harlem, the better to seem "local" as her charter chain
            > > > proliferated.)
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > http://gothamist.com/2005/07/26/eva_moskowitz_city_council_member.php
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Also representing much of CDEC-2 throughout this time has been
            > > > Christine Quinn.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > When asked at a recent D-3 CEC mtg. about the exclusive D-2 HS policy,
            > > > Ch. Walcott described it as having been "grandfathered"
            > > > > >
            > > > > > in. No saying if when Beacon takes up residence in D-2, which it will
            > > > soon, whether it will share the same "grandfather." Also, no
            > > > > >
            > > > > > saying who exactly was the "grandfather" or "godfather" of this
            > > > policy, though we can surmise from the above who the "godmothers" were.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Susan
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >

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