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Re: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

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  • mathman180
    Coming from a guy whose two daughters sport the following practical educations: Emma: graduated Princeton in 2001 with a degree in English and a certificate in
    Message 1 of 11 , May 18, 2013
      Coming from a guy whose two daughters sport the following practical educations: 

           Emma: graduated Princeton in 2001 with a degree in English and a certificate in Medieval Studies, and

           Georgina: the "professional equestrian" with NYU degree (?) in Sports Business Marketing and Art. 

      In the Chinese educational system, anyone "good enough" for college but "not good enough" for real university studies gets assigned to what amounts to vocational college: hotel or tourist trade, textile production, foresty or agriculture, computer repair, etc., etc. What a delicious irony it is that Michael Bloomberg is unknowingly encouraging a college education system almost identical to that of the People's Republic of China (and he a Republican, horror of horrors!). 

      Steve Koss


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Leonie Haimson <leonie@...>
      To: nyceducationnews <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 6:20 pm
      Subject: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

       
      Love the picture!
       
       

      Skip college and become a plumber: Mayor Bloomberg

      The mayor’s advice, given during his weekly radio show, notes that average college students who aren’t rocket scientists might do better pursuing a career cleaning pipes. ‘You don’t spend ... four years spending $40,000, $50,000 in tuition without earning income’ or amassing student loan debt, he explained, and one expert partly agrees with him.

      By Jennifer Fermino AND Jonathan Lemire / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

      Friday, May 17, 2013, 8:54 PM
      610
      94
      0
      Mayor Bloomberg’s advice to ‘so-so’ students is to skip college and become a plumber. His argument is that they won’t waste time, would have a nice income and could avoid student loan debt. Plus, this is one profession that can’t be outsourced.

      NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

      Mayor Bloomberg’s advice to ‘so-so’ students is to skip college and become a plumber. His argument is that they won’t waste time, would have a nice income a nd could avoid student loan debt. Plus, this is one profession that can’t be outsourced.
      Some advice from career counselor Mayor Bloomberg: If you are a so-so high school student, steer clear of college — and learn to clear clogged drains.
      Bloomberg said on his weekly radio show Friday that going to trade school to become a plumber is a better economic bet for many teenagers than obtaining an undergraduate degree.
      “The people who are going to have the biggest problem are college graduates who aren’t rocket scientists, if you will, not at the top of their class,” he said.
      “Compare a plumber to going to Harvard College — being a plumber, actually for the average person, probably would be a better deal.”
      He said plumbers make a good living without having to pay off college loans.
      “You don’t spend ... four years spending $40,000, $50,000 in tuition without earning income,” he explained.
      Another benefit: Plumbers don’t have to worry about their jobs being outsourced or handled by computers. “It’s hard to farm that out ... and it’s hard to automate that,” he said.
      The mayor said “a number” of studies conclude that plumbers start their careers with less debt and higher wages than their peers who attend college.
      Mark Kantrowitz, an autho rity on college financial planning, said the mayor is partly right.
      With the loss of income for four years, plus student debt, some people who go to college will have less to spend over their lifetime than people who skip school and land well-paying jobs in trades like plumbing and electrical work. “Not everyone has to go to get a college degree to get a good job,” he said.
      But, Kantrowitz added, for most people, “college is a good investment.”
      By attending a state school or a less prestigious private college, some students can improve their chances of faring better financially over the long haul, he said. “The only schools that cost $40,000 or $50,000 like the mayor said are elite schools,” Kantrowitz said.
       
       
      Leonie Haimson
      Executive Director
      Class Size Matters
      124 Waverly Pl.
      New York, NY 10011
      212-674-7320
       
      Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
       
      Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
        ;
      Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
       
    • Nancy K Cauthen
      Steve, thanks so much -- perfect material for tomorrow s tweets! Nancy (parent of 6th and 10th graders & tweeter for Change the Stakes) On 5/18/2013 8:44 PM,
      Message 2 of 11 , May 18, 2013
        Steve, thanks so much -- perfect material for tomorrow's tweets!

        Nancy (parent of 6th and 10th graders & tweeter for Change the Stakes)

        On 5/18/2013 8:44 PM, Mathman180@... wrote:
        Coming from a guy whose two daughters sport the following practical educations: 

             Emma: graduated Princeton in 2001 with a degree in English and a certificate in Medieval Studies, and

             Georgina: the "professional equestrian" with NYU degree (?) in Sports Business Marketing and Art. 

        In the Chinese educational system, anyone "good enough" for college but "not good enough" for real university studies gets assigned to what amounts to vocational college: hotel or tourist trade, textile production, foresty or agriculture, computer repair, etc., etc. What a delicious irony it is that Michael Bloomberg is unknowingly encouraging a college education system almost identical to that of the People's Republic of China (and he a Republican, horror of horrors!). 

        Steve Koss


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Leonie Haimson <leonie@...>
        To: nyceducationnews <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 6:20 pm
        Subject: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

         
        Love the picture!
         
         

        Skip college and become a plumber: Mayor Bloomberg

        The mayor’s advice, given during his weekly radio show, notes that average college students who aren’t rocket scientists might do better pursuing a career cleaning pipes. ‘You don’t spend ... four years spending $40,000, $50,000 in tuition without earning income’ or amassing student loan debt, he explained, and one expert partly agrees with him.

        By Jennifer Fermino AND Jonathan Lemire / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

        Friday, May 17, 2013, 8:54 PM



        610



        94



        0













        Mayor Bloomberg’s
advice to ‘so-so’ students is to skip
college and become a plumber. His argument
is that they won’t waste time, would have a
nice income and could avoid student loan
debt. Plus, this is one profession that
can’t be outsourced.

        NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

        Mayor Bloomberg’s advice to ‘so-so’ students is to skip college and become a plumber. His argument is that they won’t waste time, would have a nice income a nd could avoid student loan debt. Plus, this is one profession that can’t be outsourced.
        Some advice from career counselor Mayor Bloomberg: If you are a so-so high school student, steer clear of college — and learn to clear clogged drains.
        Bloomberg said on his weekly radio show Friday that going to trade school to become a plumber is a better economic bet for many teenagers than obtaining an undergraduate degree.
        “The people who are going to have the biggest problem are college graduates who aren’t rocket scientists, if you will, not at the top of their class,” he said.
        “Compare a plumber to going to Harvard College — being a plumber, actually for the average person, probably would be a better deal.”
        He said plumbers make a good living without having to pay off college loans.
        “You don’t spend ... four years spending $40,000, $50,000 in tuition without earning income,” he explained.
        Another benefit: Plumbers don’t have to worry about their jobs being outsourced or handled by computers. “It’s hard to farm that out ... and it’s hard to automate that,” he said.
        The mayor said “a number” of studies conclude that plumbers start their careers with less debt and higher wages than their peers who attend college.
        Mark Kantrowitz, an autho rity on college financial planning, said the mayor is partly right.
        With the loss of income for four years, plus student debt, some people who go to college will have less to spend over their lifetime than people who skip school and land well-paying jobs in trades like plumbing and electrical work. “Not everyone has to go to get a college degree to get a good job,” he said.
        But, Kantrowitz added, for most people, “college is a good investment.”
        By attending a state school or a less prestigious private college, some students can improve their chances of faring better financially over the long haul, he said. “The only schools that cost $40,000 or $50,000 like the mayor said are elite schools,” Kantrowitz said.
         
         
        Leonie Haimson
        Executive Director
        Class Size Matters
        124 Waverly Pl.
        New York, NY 10011
        212-674-7320
         
        Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
         
        Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
          ;
        Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
         

      • mathman180
        You just can t make this stuff up! The more I think about it, the more Bloomberg s societal views remind me of the haves and have-nots world depicted in the
        Message 3 of 11 , May 19, 2013
          You just can't make this stuff up! The more I think about it, the more Bloomberg's societal views remind me of the "haves and have-nots" world depicted in the Justin Timberlake flick, "In Time." 

          Steve Koss


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Nancy K Cauthen <kidsbigandsmall@...>
          To: nyceducationnews <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 1:30 pm
          Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

           
          Steve, thanks so much -- perfect material for tomorrow's tweets!

          Nancy (parent of 6th and 10th graders & tweeter for Change the Stakes)

          On 5/18/2013 8:44 PM, Mathman180@... wrote:
          Coming from a guy whose two daughters sport the following practical educations: 

               Emma: graduated Princeton in 2001 with a degree in English and a certificate in Medieval Studies, and

               Georgina: the "professional equestrian" with NYU degree (?) in Sports Business Marketing and Art. 

          In the Chinese educational system, anyone "good enough" for college but "not good enough" for real university studies gets assigned to what amounts to vocational college: hotel or tourist trade, textile production, foresty or agriculture, computer repair, etc., etc. What a delicious irony it is that Michael Bloomberg is unknowingly encouraging a college education system almost identical to that of the People's Republic of China (and he a Republican, horror of horrors!). 

          Steve Koss


          -----Original Message-----
          From: Leonie Haimson <leonie@...>
          To: nyceducationnews <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sat, May 18, 2013 6:20 pm
          Subject: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

           
          Love the picture!
           
           

          Skip college and become a plumber: Mayor Bloomberg

          The mayor’s advice, given during his weekly radio show, notes that average college students who aren’t rocket scientists might do better pursuing a career cleaning pipes. ‘You don’t spend ... four years spending $40,000, $50,000 in tuition without earning income’ or amassing student loan debt, he explained, and one expert partly agrees with him.

          By Jennifer Fermino AND Jonathan Lemire / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

          Friday, May 17, 2013, 8:54 PM



          610



          94



          0













          Mayor Bloomberg’s                             advice to ‘so-so’ students is to skip                             college and become a plumber. His argument                             is that they won’t waste time, would have a                             nice income and could avoid student loan                             debt. Plus, this is one profession that                             can’t be outsourced.

          NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

          Mayor Bloomberg’s advice to ‘so-so’ students is to skip college and become a plumber. His argument is that they won’t waste time, would have a nice income a nd could avoid student loan debt. Plus, this is one profession that can’t be outsourced.
          Some advice from career counselor Mayor Bloomberg: If you are a so-so high school student, steer clear of college — and learn to clear clogged drains.
          Bloomberg said on his weekly radio show Friday that going to trade school to become a plumber is a better economic bet for many teenagers than obtaining an undergraduate degree.
          “The people who are going to have the biggest problem are college graduates who aren’t rocket scientists, if you will, not at the top of their class,” he said.
          “Compare a plumber to going to Harvard College — being a plumber, actually for the average person, probably would be a better deal.”
          He said plumbers make a good living without having to pay off college loans.
          “You don’t spend ... four years spending $40,000, $50,000 in tuition without earning income,” he explained.
          Another benefit: Plumbers don’t have to worry about their jobs being outsourced or handled by computers. “It’s hard to farm that out ... and it’s hard to automate that,” he said.
          The mayor said “a number” of studies conclude that plumbers start their careers with less debt and higher wages than their peers who attend college.
          Mark Kantrowitz, an autho rity on college financial planning, said the mayor is partly right.
          With the loss of income for four years, plus student debt, some people who go to college will have less to spend over their lifetime than people who skip school and land well-paying jobs in trades like plumbing and electrical work. “Not everyone has to go to get a college degree to get a good job,” he said.
          But, Kantrowitz added, for most people, “college is a good investment.”
          By attending a state school or a less prestigious private college, some students can improve their chances of faring better financially over the long haul, he said. “The only schools that cost $40,000 or $50,000 like the mayor said are elite schools,” Kantrowitz said.
           
           
          Leonie Haimson
          Executive Director
          Class Size Matters
          124 Waverly Pl.
          New York, NY 10011
          212-674-7320
           
          Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
           
          Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
            ;
          Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
          Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
           

        • carrie mclaren
          I must be the only person here who doesn t think this is insane. In fact, my husband (who has 3 ivy league degrees) routinely half-jokes that we re going to
          Message 4 of 11 , May 19, 2013
            I must be the only person here who doesn't think this is insane. In fact, my husband (who has 3 ivy league degrees) routinely half-jokes that we're going to tell our 4yo to become a plumber. Sure, it's ironic coming from Bloomberg but the sad truth is that it's not bad advice, and for reasons that have nothing to do with Bloomberg's terrible educational reforms.

            carrie
          • joalfaro49@...
            I m not sure if it s part of Bloomberg s educational reforms, but try getting a student into Coop Tech on 96th st. and then finding out the student s
            Message 5 of 11 , May 19, 2013
              I"m not sure if it's part of Bloomberg's educational reforms, but try getting a student into Coop Tech on 96th st. and then finding out the student's progress!!  If the mayor was sincere about his proposal then these programs would be much more readily available, better funded and be more integrated with a student's home school.


              -----Original Message-----
              From: carrie mclaren <brooklynite282@...>
              To: nyceducationnews <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Sun, May 19, 2013 2:36 pm
              Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

               
              I must be the only person here who doesn't think this is insane. In fact, my husband (who has 3 ivy league degrees) routinely half-jokes that we're going to tell our 4yo to become a plumber. Sure, it's ironic coming from Bloomberg but the sad truth is that it's not bad advice, and for reasons that have nothing to do with Bloomberg's terrible educational reforms.

              carrie
            • Laura@...
              Carrie, I agree I have always thought that not everyone is destined for college. Trade schools are a great idea and we should have more of them - especially
              Message 6 of 11 , May 19, 2013
                Carrie,

                I agree  I have always thought that not everyone is destined for college.  Trade schools are a great idea and we should have more of them - especially if we want to have a workforce of skilled folks.  They can also benefit from college too.  

                I think the issue is what he has been selling all these years coupled with "how" he says it and how he views that workforce.  

                Also, you don't need to be top of your class in college to have a great career.  There is much more that success entails than good grades - like common sense, people skills, high emotional IQ, dedication, work ethic, resilience, etc.  

                Laura E. Timoney
                (O) 718.987.6411
                (C) 917.667.2711
                Laura@...



                carrie mclaren <brooklynite282@...>
                Sent by: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com

                05/19/2013 02:36 PM

                Please respond to
                nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com

                To
                nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
                cc
                Subject
                Re: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber





                 

                I must be the only person here who doesn't think this is insane. In fact, my husband (who has 3 ivy league degrees) routinely half-jokes that we're going to tell our 4yo to become a plumber. Sure, it's ironic coming from Bloomberg but the sad truth is that it's not bad advice, and for reasons that have nothing to do with Bloomberg's terrible educational reforms.

                carrie


              • Norm Scott
                I ve been dealing with plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc a lot especially since Sandy. in 33 years of owning a home I had tried just about every craft and
                Message 7 of 11 , May 19, 2013
                  I've been dealing with plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc a lot especially since Sandy. in 33 years of owning a home I had tried just about every craft and stuggled with them all. Every job involved a lot of intellectual challenge, problem solving and loads of decisions that had to be made, often in a certain order that I never could quite figure out. I often worked alongside guys who I hired as an assistant just to learn. Amongst the most brilliant was a Portuguese guy with a 4th grade education.
                  If I had to do it all over again I would still get as inexpensive a college degree as possible while trying to apprentice myself to a general contracter.
                  A 28 year old "kid" from Guatamala and his younger assistant just finished 11 weeks of working on my house and did every single job almost to perfection. I was wowed every step of the way of their abilities and wanted so much to be able to do what they do because you see results whereas as a teacher all too often I couldn't judge results in a meaningful way.
                  Cheers,
                  Norm Scott

                  Twitter: normscott1

                  Education Notes
                  ednotesonline.blogspot.com

                  Grassroots Education Movement
                  gemnyc.org

                  Education columnist, The Wave
                  www.rockawave.com

                  nycfirst robotics
                  normsrobotics.blogspot.com

                  Sent from my BlackBerry

                  From: carrie mclaren <brooklynite282@...>
                  Sender: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 14:36:22 -0400
                  To: <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
                  ReplyTo: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

                   

                  I must be the only person here who doesn't think this is insane. In fact, my husband (who has 3 ivy league degrees) routinely half-jokes that we're going to tell our 4yo to become a plumber. Sure, it's ironic coming from Bloomberg but the sad truth is that it's not bad advice, and for reasons that have nothing to do with Bloomberg's terrible educational reforms.

                  carrie

                • Deborah Meier
                  Yes! Read Mike Rose Minds at Work. We ought to be making college accessible to 15 year olds and up--subsidizedf and voluntazry--with no voc pitch. Just,
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 19, 2013
                    Yes!  Read Mike Rose' Minds at Work.  

                    We ought to be making college accessible to 15 year olds and up--subsidizedf and voluntazry--with no voc pitch.  Just, "have you ever waznted to know....?"
                    -----
                    Deborah Meier

                    Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda Engel and Beth Taylor

                    NOTE: new e-mail address.  deborahmeier@...

                    For more information see website:  http://www.deborahmeier.com







                    On May 19, 2013, at 3:03 PM, Norm Scott wrote:

                     

                    I've been dealing with plumbers, electricians, carpenters etc a lot especially since Sandy. in 33 years of owning a home I had tried just about every craft and stuggled with them all. Every job involved a lot of intellectual challenge, problem solving and loads of decisions that had to be made, often in a certain order that I never could quite figure out. I often worked alongside guys who I hired as an assistant just to learn. Amongst the most brilliant was a Portuguese guy with a 4th grade education.
                    If I had to do it all over again I would still get as inexpensive a college degree as possible while trying to apprentice myself to a general contracter.
                    A 28 year old "kid" from Guatamala and his younger assistant just finished 11 weeks of working on my house and did every single job almost to perfection. I was wowed every step of the way of their abilities and wanted so much to be able to do what they do because you see results whereas as a teacher all too often I couldn't judge results in a meaningful way.

                    Cheers,
                    Norm Scott

                    Twitter: normscott1

                    Education Notes
                    ednotesonline.blogspot.com

                    Grassroots Education Movement
                    gemnyc.org

                    Education columnist, The Wave
                    www.rockawave.com

                    nycfirst robotics
                    normsrobotics.blogspot.com

                    Sent from my BlackBerry

                    From: carrie mclaren <brooklynite282@...>
                    Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 14:36:22 -0400
                    Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

                     

                    I must be the only person here who doesn't think this is insane. In fact, my husband (who has 3 ivy league degrees) routinely half-jokes that we're going to tell our 4yo to become a plumber. Sure, it's ironic coming from Bloomberg but the sad truth is that it's not bad advice, and for reasons that have nothing to do with Bloomberg's terrible educational reforms.

                    carrie




                  • Jane Reiff
                    I believe the growth of CTE schools and programs reinforces his opinion that not everyone is made to go to college. ... From: Laura@Timoney.com To:
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 20, 2013
                      
                      I believe the growth of CTE schools and programs reinforces his opinion that not everyone is made to go to college.
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Laura@...
                      Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 2:57 PM
                      Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber

                       

                      Carrie,

                      I agree  I have always thought that not everyone is destined for college.  Trade schools are a great idea and we should have more of them - especially if we want to have a workforce of skilled folks.  They can also benefit from college too.  

                      I think the issue is what he has been selling all these years coupled with "how" he says it and how he views that workforce.  

                      Also, you don't need to be top of your class in college to have a great career.  There is much more that success entails than good grades - like common sense, people skills, high emotional IQ, dedication, work ethic, resilience, etc.  

                      Laura E. Timoney
                      (O) 718.987.6411
                      (C) 917.667.2711
                      Laura@...



                      carrie mclaren <brooklynite282@...>
                      Sent by: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com

                      05/19/2013 02:36 PM

                      Please respond to
                      nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com

                      To
                      nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
                      cc
                      Subject
                      Re: [nyceducationnews] Bloomberg: Skip Harvard and become a plumber





                       

                      I must be the only person here who doesn't think this is insane. In fact, my husband (who has 3 ivy league degrees) routinely half-jokes that we're going to tell our 4yo to become a plumber. Sure, it's ironic coming from Bloomberg but the sad truth is that it's not bad advice, and for reasons that have nothing to do with Bloomberg's terrible educational reforms.

                      carrie


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