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Re: [nyceducationnews] more on Beverly Hall

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  • nealhugh17
    ... Yeah... Meanwhile I am trying to find a good HS for my 8th grade son... TY, Neal Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: calantjis@aol.com Sender:
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 30, 2013
      ... Yeah... Meanwhile I am trying to find a good HS for my 8th grade son... TY, Neal
      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

      From: calantjis@...
      Sender: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 16:14:25 -0400 (EDT)
      To: <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] more on Beverly Hall

       

      The Superintendent in charge must take the responsibility for what goes on in her district. Data is very important to assess whether students are achieving or not. The problem is not with testing, but with unethical educators who care more about their self interests than whether students are achieving.
       
       In NYC we have an education system where merit and achievement are secondary to social promotion.It is all about making the schools look good rather than educating our students.  


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Matt Bromme <mb841015@...>
      To: nyceducationnews <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
      Cc: <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com> <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>; CTS Internal <cts-internal@...>; <changethestakes-open-forum@...> <changethestakes-open-forum@...>; <leonie@...> <leonie@...>
      Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 2:01 pm
      Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] more on Beverly Hall

       
      Leonie - I worked for Dr. Hall as a middle school principal. We were the "outcasts" that were appointed to CSD 27 after the school board was removed and replaced with trustees. Cole Genn had been the Superintendent who wore a wire that led to the indictment of a few board members.

      The political community and local union leaders gave her a hard time as they did with me. We were not home grown and had not worked for or contributed to school board members reelection campaigns.

      I found her to be fair, demanding and professional. I know nothing about her Atlanta issues, but we can not continue to live by data and unreasonable pressure and not expect to perish by data and unreasonable pressure.

      Matt Bromme
      COO Bromme Associates LLC
      Sent from my iPad


      On Mar 30, 2013, at 1:28 PM, "Leonie Haimson" <leonie@...> wrote:

       
      According to people I trust who knew her in NYC, Hall was a good person. If anything, she was corrupted by the system.  Also, Atlanta schools made real gains in achievement on the NAEPS, which, according to experts, are extremely difficult if not impossible to cheat on.
       
      Most everything they are accusing Hall of could be said of many if not most large district leaders, including DOE.  The RICO indictment has the following statement:
       
      “Beverly Hall placed unreasonable emphasis on achieving targets, protected & rewarded those who achieved targets through heating; terminated principals who failed to achieve targets; and ignores suspicious CRCT score gains at schools within APS.  As a result, cheating became more and more prevalent w/in APS…”
       
      Couldn’t the same be said about Klein, Walcott, Rhee and many other district leaders throughout the country? 
       
      Leonie Haimson
      Executive Director
      Class Size Matters
      124 Waverly Pl.
      New York, NY 10011
      212-674-7320
       
      Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
       
      Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
       
      Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
      Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
       
      From: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Norm Scott
      Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:36 AM
      To: NYC Ed News; CTS Internal; UFT Caucus Planning
      Subject: [nyceducationnews] Beverly Hall in NYC
       
       
      Hall began her education career in several Brooklyn public schools. She taught English at Junior High School 265, then served as coordinator of Satellite West Junior High School, principal of P.S. 282, and principal of J.H.S. 113 (now Ronald Edmonds Learning Center).[4] While working as a Queens district superintendent in 1994, Hall was given "control of the city's high schools, special education programs and all other centrally controlled instructional programs" by Chancellor Ramon C. Cortines.[4]

      Can we surmise Hall was part of the District 13 crew? Can we still check those scores?

      --
      Have a good day

      Norm Scott
      normsco@...
      917-992-3734

      On Twitter:  @normscott1

      Education Notes Online
      ednotesonline.blogspot.com/
       
      GEM, Grassroots Education Movement
      gemnyc.org
       
      The Inconvenient Truth Behind Waiting for Superman - Now Online
      http://gemnyc.org/our-film/
       
      Education Editor, The Wave
      http://www.rockawave.com/

      Norms's Robotics blog
      http://normsrobotics.blogspot.com/
    • Neal H. Hurwitz
      Carmen, thank you! And what I have learned from these many years with the NY Times, etc. is DO NOT believe a thing you read but try to get info from DIRECT
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 31, 2013
        Carmen, thank you! And what I have learned from these many years with the NY Times, etc. is DO NOT believe
        a thing you read but try to get info from DIRECT sources, which you are now among on this so thanks again!

        It is indeed quite amazing to me (since Columbia in 1968) that what is in the "news" and articles is what the
        owners of the media wish to convey, period.

        Cheers, Neal

        Neal H. Hurwitz, NY NY


        Neal H. Hurwitz
        NY, NY

        :-)


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@...>
        To: nyceducationnews <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sun, Mar 31, 2013 5:32 pm
        Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] more on Beverly Hall

         
        I appreciate your letter, Carmen, and I guess I' pretty much feeling as yo do.  She left a ot of wounded people in her path.  

        Deb
        -----
        Deborah Meier

        Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda Engel and Beth Taylor

        NOTE: new e-mail address.  deborahmeier@...

        For more information see website:  http://www.deborahmeier.com







        On Mar 31, 2013, at 4:02 AM, Carmen Diego wrote:

         
        I worked in Atlanta under Hall's leadership before moving to NYC.  Perhaps she was corrupted by the system but as I stated in the article http://www.ajc.com/news/news/the-art-of-war-at-atlanta-public-schools/nW74q/  she did rule with an iron fist not unlike Rhee and other leaders throughout the country.  

        I don't feel sorry for Hall because she outright denied involvement and/or knowledge of cheating.  When the report implicating 178 teachers was released, Hall was nowhere to be found.  The local media finally tracked her down in Hawaii.  When the reporter approached her for a statement she pretended to have lost her voice.

        On the other hand, I recognize that APS is not a special case and that this high stakes testing regime is an unfortunate staple of US education.  So why is Atlanta front and center?  Many say that Hall, a black woman publicly dismissed the authority of then governor and southern white good ol' boy Sonny Perdue by vehemently denying the suspicions and bringing in Caveon to "prove" him wrong.  Perdue answered by bringing in over 50 GBI agents who concluded that 178 teachers were involved in cheating.  When questioned, I specifically recall most of the questions being slanted to implicate Hall.  It was obvious they were looking to take her down.  Look at the severity of the charges.  I'm still assessing my feelings on whether the punishment fits the alleged crimes.  

        Let me also say that all 178 of those teachers were not guilty as the GBI & media would have you believe. The GBI came in and used heavy intimidation tactics to get a lot of coerced confessions.  They removed their guns from holsters and placed them directly in front of teachers, they berated teachers, insisting upon their guilt and interpreted their emotional testimony as guilt. All sorts of false accusations and ridiculous conclusions were made in the initial investigative report.  I noted that they accused Hall of intimidating but the GBI used intimidation tactics to get confessions, false or not.  I thought this was an injustice and I suspect there weren't nearly as many folks involved as we've been made to believe.  But I guess it had to be big to make national news.  It pissed me off because I had close friends and family named in the report who were falsely accused.  To explain the quote below there were innocent teachers who resigned while a handful of others successfully fought the charges to win their jobs back. 

        "The indictment said some school employees were not charged because of “their confessions, cooperation and truthful testimony.” It does not, however, address which educators, if any, assisted the grand jury. Why some top administrators were charged, but not others, remains unclear." 

        There are waaay too many similarities between Hall and Rhee.  But Hall is more small time, not the ed reform media darling that is Rhee.  Hall can be sacrificed but oh not Rhee.  The ones with the resources to take her down have too much to lose if she goes down.  I wonder what her PR person has come up with to separate her from this.


        - Carmen Dixon


        --- On Sat, 3/30/13, Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@...> wrote:

        From: Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@...>
        Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] more on Beverly Hall
        To: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Saturday, March 30, 2013, 9:00 PM

         
        I think Neal makes the most daming point--that she got "rich" o it.  I agree that it's the par that bothers me the most...  Ah well.  Deb
        -----
        Deborah Meier

        Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda Engel and Beth Taylor

        NOTE: new e-mail address.  deborahmeier@...

        For more information see website:  http://www.deborahmeier.com







        On Mar 30, 2013, at 4:14 PM, calantjis@... wrote:

         

        The Superintendent in charge must take the responsibility for what goes on in her district. Data is very important to assess whether students are achieving or not. The problem is not with testing, but with unethical educators who care more about their self interests than whether students are achieving.
         
         In NYC we have an education system where merit and achievement are secondary to social promotion.It is all about making the schools look good rather than educating our students.  


        -----Original Message-----
        From: Matt Bromme <mb841015@...>
        To: nyceducationnews <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
        Cc: <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com> <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>; CTS Internal <cts-internal@...>; <changethestakes-open-forum@...> <changethestakes-open-forum@...>; <leonie@...> <leonie@...>
        Sent: Sat, Mar 30, 2013 2:01 pm
        Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] more on Beverly Hall

         
        Leonie - I worked for Dr. Hall as a middle school principal. We were the "outcasts" that were appointed to CSD 27 after the school board was removed and replaced with trustees. Cole Genn had been the Superintendent who wore a wire that led to the indictment of a few board members.

        The political community and local union leaders gave her a hard time as they did with me. We were not home grown and had not worked for or contributed to school board members reelection campaigns.

        I found her to be fair, demanding and professional. I know nothing about her Atlanta issues, but we can not continue to live by data and unreasonable pressure and not expect to perish by data and unreasonable pressure.

        Matt Bromme
        COO Bromme Associates LLC
        Sent from my iPad


        On Mar 30, 2013, at 1:28 PM, "Leonie Haimson" <leonie@...> wrote:

         
        According to people I trust who knew her in NYC, Hall was a good person. If anything, she was corrupted by the system.  Also, Atlanta schools made real gains in achievement on the NAEPS, which, according to experts, are extremely difficult if not impossible to cheat on.
         
        Most everything they are accusing Hall of could be said of many if not most large district leaders, including DOE.  The RICO indictment has the following statement:
         
        “Beverly Hall placed unreasonable emphasis on achieving targets, protected & rewarded those who achieved targets through heating; terminated principals who failed to achieve targets; and ignores suspicious CRCT score gains at schools within APS.  As a result, cheating became more and more prevalent w/in APS…”
         
        Couldn’t the same be said about Klein, Walcott, Rhee and many other district leaders throughout the country? 
         
        Leonie Haimson
        Executive Director
        Class Size Matters
        124 Waverly Pl.
        New York, NY 10011
        212-674-7320
         
        Follow me on twitter @leoniehaimson
         
        Make a tax-deductible contribution to Class Size Matters now!
         
        Subscribe to Class Size Matters news by emailing classsizematters-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
        Subscribe to NYC education news by emailing nyceducationnews-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
         
        From: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Norm Scott
        Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2013 10:36 AM
        To: NYC Ed News; CTS Internal; UFT Caucus Planning
        Subject: [nyceducationnews] Beverly Hall in NYC
         
         
        Hall began her education career in several Brooklyn public schools. She taught English at Junior High School 265, then served as coordinator of Satellite West Junior High School, principal of P.S. 282, and principal of J.H.S. 113 (now Ronald Edmonds Learning Center).[4] While working as a Queens district superintendent in 1994, Hall was given "control of the city's high schools, special education programs and all other centrally controlled instructional programs" by Chancellor Ramon C. Cortines.[4]

        Can we surmise Hall was part of the District 13 crew? Can we still check those scores?

        --
        Have a good day

        Norm Scott
        normsco@...
        917-992-3734

        On Twitter:  @normscott1

        Education Notes Online
        ednotesonline.blogspot.com/
         
        GEM, Grassroots Education Movement
        gemnyc.org
         
        The Inconvenient Truth Behind Waiting for Superman - Now Online
        http://gemnyc.org/our-film/
         
        Education Editor, The Wave
        http://www.rockawave.com/

        Norms's Robotics blog
        http://normsrobotics.blogspot.com/



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