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Re: [nyceducationnews] Re: Charges of Bias in Admission Test Policy at Eight Elite Public High Schools

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  • nealhugh@aol.com
    Stanley could tell us more of course... Chinese Mandarin and other, etc. Korean. Et al. TY! Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T ... From: Marilyn DAgostino
    Message 1 of 78 , Oct 1, 2012
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      Stanley could tell us more of course... Chinese Mandarin and other, etc. Korean. Et al. TY!
      Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T

      From: Marilyn DAgostino <hippiemom53@...>
      Sender: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:24:51 -0700 (PDT)
      To: <nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com>
      ReplyTo: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Re: Charges of Bias in Admission Test Policy at Eight Elite Public High Schools

       

      You may find this interesting if you have not seen it before.
      http://nymag.com/news/features/asian-americans-2011-5/index1.html


      --- On Mon, 10/1/12, Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@...> wrote:

      From: Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@...>
      Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Re: Charges of Bias in Admission Test Policy at Eight Elite Public High Schools
      To: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Monday, October 1, 2012, 6:20 PM

       

      Howard Gardner has an excellent interview on Huffington Post.  If I knew more about how to do it, I'd tweet it to everyone I could--as the basis for a good debate.   
      The Global Search for Education: The Education Debate 2012 -- Howard Gardner
      www.huffingtonpost.com

      Aha!  


      And, of course, no curses (see below)



      On Oct 1, 2012, at 6:14 PM, Deborah Meier wrote:

       


      Descent, of curse---see below.



      On Oct 1, 2012, at 6:05 PM, Deborah Meier wrote:

       

      Well, maybe SNg.  Are most of the Asian students at Stuyvesant HS, or at Stanford, etc from a wide raznge of countries?  What % are of Chinese deScent versus...?  


      Deb
      -----
      Deborah Meier

      Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda Engel and Beth Taylor

      NOTE: new e-mail address.  deborahmeier@...

      For more information see website:  http://www.deborahmeier.com







      On Oct 1, 2012, at 4:15 PM, stanleymng wrote:

       


      Don't you mean American born of "ASIAN" descent ?

      SNg

      --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@...> wrote:
      >
      > Oops. I don;t mean Chinesse students!! A bit of racism I haven't overcome! I mean Americns of Chinesse descent.
      > -----
      > Deborah Meier
      >
      > Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda Engel and Beth Taylor
      >
      > NOTE: new e-mail address. deborahmeier@...
      >
      > For more information see website: http://www.deborahmeier.com
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > On Oct 1, 2012, at 3:42 PM, Marge wrote:
      >
      > > And, let's not pretend that kids can't be prepped for interviews, too. My son tested and then interviewed for a 7-12th grade school a few years ago, and a high school a year ago. Both times I reminded him to shake hands, make eye contact and smile once in a while. He got accepted to both schools... These two schools did not interview everyone who applied, but they still conducted hundreds of interviews for a limited number of seats (75 in one school and 150 in the other). They used their entrance exam as a first cut and then the interview to finalize their admissions. Both schools had fairly diverse student bodies.
      > >
      > > One other interesting point - a friend of mine whose child is currently in 7th grade in a private day school recently attended private high school fairs in Manhattan (one for day schools and one for boarding schools). At both fairs, there were approx. 50% minority students and parents in attendance. Boarding schools (like Choate) were saying they have up to 40% minority enrollment and are offering full scholarships for kids in need. Maybe some of the best NYC minority students are being "creamed" in this process and therefore not attending NYC Selective High Schools. (I'm not saying that number represents anywhere near the difference, just that it may represent a small part of it.)
      > >
      > > Marge Kolb
      > >
      > > --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, "cebrownk" <MO9Ernie@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > DeborahMeier, you have not attended a specialized high school. Perhaps a 13 year old could be drawn out of their very hard shells, but I have encountered many a child when I attended and currently, who would have been perceived as too peculiar. The adults are successful, and their peculiar traits are still noticeable, but mellowed.
      > > >
      > > > This is another reason to set-aside some excellent schools with just a single test requirement — brilliant awkward kids deserve a chance. And I find these kids were/are brilliant.
      > > >
      > > > Let the charming, good-looking, extrovert kids (a type that tended to irritate me in school) have additional HS options and be able to confidently apply to other equally great HS that use interviews as criteria. I can think of a few places where they'll fit in.
      > > >
      > > > By the way, who is going to interview 25,000 applicants? How could I as a parent trust that the right interviewer clicked with my child?
      > > >
      > > > Even LaGuardia does group auditions for all the art and dance applicants.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com, Deborah Meier <deborahmeier@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > In "real life" handling "interviews" is an important skill/quality - for success nd ledership and making a contribution. So why is it not part of decisions about being gifted?
      > > > > -----
      > > > > Deborah Meier
      > >
      > >
      >






    • Khem Irby
      So lets eliminate testing and lottery for all eight schools amongst the 2% of all middle school children that are interested. Khem Irby To:
      Message 78 of 78 , Oct 2, 2012
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        So lets eliminate testing and lottery for all eight schools amongst the 2% of all middle school children that are interested.

        Khem Irby


         



        To: nyceducationnews@yahoogroups.com
        From: deborahmeier@...
        Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:48:25 -0400
        Subject: Re: [nyceducationnews] Charges of Bias in Admission Test Policy at Eight Elite Public High Schools

         
        Thanks.  Twas as I expected.





        On Oct 2, 2012, at 2:52 PM, John M. Beam wrote:

         

        Deb et al:

        Note this comment re/ Asian-ness and who loses in the special high school system.  I posted the entire NAACP LDF release below.


        In addition to the impact on African-American and Latino students, the current policy harms many Asian students, as well.  Monami Maulik, Executive Director of DRUM, said ╲Low-income South Asian students are also excluded from access to the NYC Specialized Schools.  In particular, thousands of Bangladeshi, Pakistani, and Nepali students are grossly under-represented due to solely test score based admissions that marginalize young people from often under-resourced NYC public schools. Although these students fall under the 'Asian-American' category, they are one of many low-income Asian student groups who are not being admitted in any adequate numbers.╡

        At 06:05 PM 10/1/2012 -0400, you wrote:

         
        Well, maybe SNg.  Are most of the Asian students at Stuyvesant HS, or at Stanford, etc from a wide range of countries?  What % are of Chinese decent versus...? 

        Deb
        -----
        Deborah Meier

        Note: latest book!! Playing For Keeps (TC Press) by D. Meier, Brenda Engel and Beth Taylor

        NOTE: new e-mail address.  deborahmeier@...

        For more information see website:  http://www.deborahmeier.com


        NYCDOE Never Validated Test; Blacks and Latinos Excluded from Elite Schools

        All PDFs at: http://www.naacpldf.org/case-issue/new-york-city-specialized-high-school-complaint

         
        (New York, NY) On Sept 27, 2012, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund (LDF), LatinoJustice PRLDEF and The Center for Law and Social Justice at Medgar Evers College filed a federal civil rights complaint on behalf of a broad coalition of New York education, civil rights and social justice organizations challenging the admissions process at New York Cityâ•˙s elite public "Specialized High Schools".  The complainant organizations include the NYC Coalition for Educational Justice, La Fuente, Make the Road New York, Alliance for Quality Education, New York Communities for Change, Black New Yorkers for Educational Excellence, Community Service Society of New York, Garifuna Coalition, USA Inc., DRUM- Desis Rising Up and Moving, the Brooklyn Movement Center and UPROSE.
        Â

        Admission to these eight schools is based solely on studentsâ•˙ rank-ordered scores on a 2.5 hour multiple choice test called the Specialized High Schools Admissions Test (SHSAT).  No other indicators of academic merit are considered in admissions decisions. Students who have stellar grades and other academic achievements may often be denied admission, including several thousand African-American and Latino students. The impact is particularly severe at Stuyvesant and Bronx Science˜two of the Speciialized High Schools that serve the largest numbers of students, have the longest track records of educational excellence, and are the among the most popular among test-takers.  For example, of the 967 eighth-grade students offered admission to Stuyvesant for the 2012-13 school year, just 19 (2%) of the students are African American and 32 (3.3%) are Latino.


        The complaint, filed with the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights˜the agency's civil rights enforcement arm˜allalleges that the New York City Department of Education and New York State Department of Education have never conducted a study to determine whether the test is a valid tool; in other words, it cannot ensure that there is any relationship between studentsâ•˙ test results and learning standards in the Specialized High Schools.
        Â

        ╲Without a predictive validity study, there is no way that the NYCDOE can know whether the test provides useful information,╡ said Damon Hewitt, Director of the Education Practice Group at the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund, Inc.  ╲And education experts agree that using a test as the only factor to make a high stakes decision is bad educational policy.  It also defies common sense.  Even elite institutions like Harvard do not misuse tests in this way.╡
        Â

        Jose L. Perez, Associate General Counsel of LatinoJustice PRLDEF added, ╲The New York City and State Departments of Education should follow the trend of other elite high school and colleges throughout the nation that consider multiple factors, including grades, and even geography. At the very least, the Specialized High Schools admissions policy should give all students of a fair chance to demonstrate their academic merit.╡
        Â

        In addition to the impact on African-American and Latino students, the current policy harms many Asian students, as well.  Monami Maulik, Executive Director of DRUM, said ╲Low-income South Asian students are also excluded from access to the NYC Specialized Schools.  In particular, thousands of Bangladeshi, Pakistani, and Nepali students are grossly under-represented due to solely test score based admissions that marginalize young people from often under-resourced NYC public schools. Although these students fall under the 'Asian-American' category, they are one of many low-income Asian student groups who are not being admitted in any adequate numbers.╡
        Â

        ╲Diversity of backgrounds and perspectives has always been New York Cityâ•˙s and the United Stateâ•˙s strength, added LucÖa GÓmez-Jiminéz, Executive Director of LaFuente.  ╲The key pathways to opportunity in our society, such as those provided by the Specialized High Schools, must be open and accessible to good students from all communities.  Ensuring all young people a fair shot to succeed is in everyoneâ•˙s interest.╡
        Â

        Although state law requires a test-only admissions policy for three of the high schools, the current NYCDOE administration decided to designate an additional five schools as test-only schools.  The text of the complaint, appendices and statements of support from other organizations, experts and notable individuals are available here.

        -----------------------

        New York City Specialized High School Complaint


        All PDFs at: http://www.naacpldf.org/case-issue/new-york-city-specialized-high-school-complaint

        In school districts across the nation, talented African Americans and other students of color are denied a fair opportunity to gain access to the life-changing educational experiences provided by specialized schools for high-achieving students and gifted/talented education programs. As a result, elite public schools and programs, which provide key pathways to college and then to leadership locally, regionally, and nationally, are among the most segregated.

        In too many school districts, these racial disparities result in large part from admissions policies that rely too heavily or even exclusively on standardized tests, even though the three leading organizations in the area of educational test measurement˜the American Psychological Associationn, the American Educational Research Association, and the National Council on Measurement in Education˜have concluded that a high-stakes decisiion with a major impact on a student's educational opportunities, such as admission to a specialized or gifted/talented program, should not turn on the results of a single test. There is also a marked failure to provide African Americans and Latinos with opportunities to learn the material or otherwise prepare to meet the admissions standards used to determine whether students will be placed in these specialized programs.

        These problems are particularly acute in New York City. Each year, nearly 30,000 eighth and ninth graders compete for the chance to attend the New York City Department of Education's elite public high schools, known as the "Specialized High Schools." These eight prestigious institutions, which include Stuyvesant High School (Stuyvesant), The Bronx High School of Science (Bronx Science), and Brooklyn Technical High School (Brooklyn Tech), provide a critical pathway to opportunity for their graduates, many of whom go on to attend the country's best colleges and universities and later become leaders in our nation's economic, political, and civic life.

        But for decades, a single factor has been used to determine access to these Specialized High Schools˜a student's rank-order score on a 2.5 houur multiple choice test called the Specialized High School Admissions Test (SHSAT). Under this admissions policy, regardless of whether a student has achieved straight A's from kindergarten through eighth grade or whether he or she demonstrates other signs of high academic potential, the only factor that matters for admission is his or her score on a single test. Moreover, the NYCDOE has continued to use rank-order SHSAT scores as the sole admissions criterion, even though it has never shown that this practice (or the test itself) validly and reliably predicts successful participation in the programs offered by the Specialized High Schools. As education experts have noted, if a test does not predict success, then is not a fair barometer of merit.

        As a result of this policy, year after year, thousands of academically talented African-American and Latino students who take the test are denied admission to the Specialized High Schools at rates far higher than those for other racial groups. The impact is particularly severe at Stuyvesant High School and Bronx Science High School ˜two of the Specialized High Schoools that serve the largest numbers of students, have the longest track records of educational excellence, and are among the most popular for test-takers. For example, of the 967 eighth-grade students offered admission to Stuyvesant for the 2012-13 school year, just 19 (2%) of the students were African American and 32 (3.3%) were Latino.

        LDF, along with co-counsel LatinoJustice PRLDEF and The Center for Law and Social Justice at Medgar Evers College filed a federal civil rights complaint on behalf of a broad coalition of New York education, civil rights and social justice organizations challenging the admissions process at Specialized High Schools. The complainant organizations include the NYC Coalition for Educational Justice, La Fuente, Make the Road New York, Alliance for Quality Education, New York Communities for Change, Black New Yorkers for Educational Excellence, Community Service Society of New York, Garifuna Coalition, USA Inc., the Brooklyn Movement Center, UPROSE and DRUM - Desis Rising Up and Moving.

        Diversity of backgrounds and perspectives has always been New York City's and the United States' strength. It helps drive innovation, new ideas, and our national prosperity. For this reason, the key pathways to opportunity in our society, such as those provided by the Specialized High Schools, must be open and accessible to good students from all communities. Ensuring all young people an opportunity to succeed is in everyone's interest. Unsound and discriminatory admissions policies can no longer be allowed to deprive deserving students of meaningful opportunities.


        All PDFs at: http://www.naacpldf.org/case-issue/new-york-city-specialized-high-school-complaint








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