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Re: [nwneon] Re: The things you do when bored...

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  • bigpapaw@coldreams.com
    I may make it up that way. I will be cruising the 1970 datsun 521 pickup that i have just spent the last 3 years restoring though, no neon appearance anyways,
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 1, 2005
      I may make it up that way. I will be cruising the 1970 datsun 521 pickup
      that i have just spent the last 3 years restoring though, no neon
      appearance anyways, if i am there represntin mopar it will with my best
      bud in a peelin white 96 coupe with a 2.4 swap (may be turbo'd too we'll
      see). i know hes been doing well at friday nights.
      Yeah the o2 simulator does grab power from the heater circuit, but does
      nil to simulate the heater circuit......thats all i was getting at
      obviously LOL.............im not much of a linguist on the keyboard!

      Peace all
      Bill


      > Thanks for the info. I'll just have to find some junkyard O2 sensor and
      > wire
      > it in, since I don't care if it's dead otherwise.
      >
      > The O2 sim does plug into the heater circuit - for the +12v feed. The O2
      > sensor doesn't need power on it's own. But it's not worth the risk of
      > frying
      > my $250 MP PCM. ;)
      >
      > I should have done a howto on the cam swap I did this weekend. Just got
      > back
      > from a test drive after swapping in my Crane #12 cam. Didn't swap the
      > valve
      > springs, just dropped the cam in and changed the timing belt. Didn't
      > think
      > it made that big of a difference, then I hit third, and where I usually
      > have
      > to short-shift into 4th at 6200rpm, it just kept going. The only good
      > thing
      > about the 3.55 final drive in the SOHC is 100mph in third gear. ;)
      >
      > Someday I'll have the time and help to swap in my home-ported head and see
      > what it does... but at least this way I'll know if the head caused the
      > gain
      > or if it was just the cam...
      >
      > If you're in Spokane, you might want to come to the Mopar Drags at SRP on
      > June
      > 27th, if you're not doing hoopfest. I'll be there, plus a friend with his
      > Spirit R/T, and maybe another guy with his '98 SOHC as well.
      >
      > MattB
      >
      >
      > On Sunday 29 May 2005 9:09 pm, bigpapaw@... wrote:
      >> Well a little follow up on this.
      >> I am by far no electronics expert, but my best friend is, and he is also
      >> a
      >> neon enthusiast who lives in spokane. We both worked at spalding auto
      >> parts for a long time together. He insists that the resistor in the
      >> heater circit is a theory that works well on paper, but he said that he
      >> has had 2 different computers go belly up doing this modification, and
      >> has
      >> gone back to having the 02 simulator in the pipe.
      >>
      >> Someone made the comment that the o2 simulator didnt put out enough to
      >> simulate the heater circuit. The sim. does not even hook up to the
      >> heater
      >> circuit. It merely provides a nominal signal to the pcm telling it that
      >> the catalytic converter is working properly. The pcm still needs the
      >> heater circuit to function in closed loop operations, including the
      >> cleanup mode mentioned before. that is why the heater circuits are still
      >> left hooked up to the rear sensor during install of the simulator.
      >>
      >> My friend also says that the computer takes not only readings from the
      >> heater curcuit, but also cross-references the heater resistance with
      >> factors such as ambient engine and coolant temperatures during its
      >> cycle.
      >> If a simple set value resistor is put inline, the pcm gets the same
      >> reading all the time, and then will send a cel for the o2 sensor. The
      >> pcm
      >> just needs to see a varying reading over time.
      >>
      >> I spose the easy fix would be an afx pcm that would just eliminate the
      >> rear o2 sensor. but that is expensive, and the one i bought from the
      >> .org
      >> was just a factory pcm with an afx sticker on it....................i
      >> was
      >> wondering why my redline dropped and i received a cel for no rear o2
      >> sensor signal..........guess you cant win em all.
      >>
      >> But heres to keeping the how-to's coming along, and once again i am just
      >> throwing in my $.02 from my experiences etc.
      >>
      >> Keep on neoning
      >> wildbillneon
      >>
      >> > Hmm, I'm no electronics expert, where would I wire this 25w resistor
      >> in?
      >> > The
      >> > +12v feed? I'd like to try it, I keep spitting the code 21 still,
      >> > despite my
      >> > efforts. If it works I can add it to the howto and e-mail the O2 sim
      >> guy
      >> > and
      >> > tell 'em.
      >> >
      >> > THanks,
      >> >
      >> > Matt
      >> >
      >> > On Wednesday 25 May 2005 9:18 am, James Kearney wrote:
      >> >> Sweet. 25W ceramic power resistors can be had cheap from online
      >> >> electronics retailers (Digi-Key, Mouser, Parts Express) and can be
      >> >> easily mounted somewhere down there.
      >> >>
      >> >> --
      >> >> Jaymzx
      >> >> www.digitalnarcotic.com
      >> >>
      >> >> -----Original Message-----
      >> >> From: nwneon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nwneon@yahoogroups.com] On
      >> Behalf
      >> >> Of Nick
      >> >> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 6:44 PM
      >> >> To: nwneon@yahoogroups.com
      >> >> Subject: [nwneon] Re: The things you do when bored...
      >> >>
      >> >> I just measured one I had lying around... assuming the white wires
      >> >> are for the heating element (as none of the other wires had
      >> >> continuity), the heating element is 7 ohms.
      >> >> A bit of ohms law... that makes for around 1.7 amps give or take...
      >> >> watts law now... using 2A to be on the safe side... that's a little
      >> >> over 20W. There ya go, I hope that helps.
      >> >>
      >> >> --- In nwneon@yahoogroups.com, "James Kearney" <james.kearney@h...>
      >> >>
      >> >> wrote:
      >> >> > Does anyone know what the DC resistance of the heater coil in the
      >> >>
      >> >> stock
      >> >>
      >> >> > O2 sensor is? I would suppose you could place a resistor of
      >> >>
      >> >> equivilant
      >> >>
      >> >> > value in it's place. Of course, it would have to be rated
      >> >>
      >> >> accordingly,
      >> >>
      >> >> > as it would likely dissipate some heat. That's not a problem, as
      >> >>
      >> >> lots of
      >> >>
      >> >> > the 25W+ resistors out there come with a heat sink and mounting
      >> tab.
      >> >> >
      >> >> > --
      >> >> > Jaymzx
      >> >> > www.digitalnarcotic.com
      >> >> >
      >> >> > -----Original Message-----
      >> >> > From: nwneon@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nwneon@yahoogroups.com] On
      >> >>
      >> >> Behalf
      >> >>
      >> >> > Of Matt Beazer
      >> >> > Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 8:49 PM
      >> >> > To: nwneon@yahoogroups.com
      >> >> > Subject: Re: [nwneon] The things you do when bored...
      >> >> >
      >> >> >
      >> >> > http://www.turbomopar.com/neon/o2sim/
      >> >> >
      >> >> > It works pretty well this way, the extra ground seems to make the
      >> >>
      >> >> code
      >> >>
      >> >> > 21 less
      >> >> > common. I agree, though, it's the heater. The PCM wants to see
      >> >>
      >> >> load
      >> >>
      >> >> > from
      >> >> > the heater, and the O2 sim doesn't seem to put enough load on it,
      >> >> > especially
      >> >> > when the PCM is running through it's "O2 sensor cleaning" routine
      >> >>
      >> >> after
      >> >>
      >> >> > shutdown.
      >> >> >
      >> >> > The above does fix the problem mostly, though it did flick a code
      >> >>
      >> >> 21 for
      >> >>
      >> >> > about
      >> >> > 10 miles then turned off again today. But that could be a
      >> >>
      >> >> consequence
      >> >>
      >> >> > of it
      >> >> > re-learning after the exhaust suddenly opened up too. I think it
      >> >>
      >> >> might
      >> >>
      >> >> > be
      >> >> > best to wire it into the O2 sensor, but just leave it dangling in
      >> >>
      >> >> the
      >> >>
      >> >> > wiring
      >> >> > harness someplace. If I had to do it over again, I'd probably do
      >> it
      >> >> > that
      >> >> > way. There's no point in welding in a bung for it though in the
      >> >>
      >> >> exhaust
      >> >>
      >> >> > stream, though, when you do custom exhaust. The heater will
      >> >>
      >> >> function
      >> >>
      >> >> > either
      >> >> > way.
      >> >> >
      >> >> > MattB
      >> >> >
      >> >> > On Friday 20 May 2005 10:43 am, bigpapaw@c... wrote:
      >> >> > > That is a great how-to my man! Its an inexpensive (neon-ese for
      >> >> >
      >> >> > cheap)
      >> >> >
      >> >> > > way to gain a little more flow. But about using the o2 senseor
      >> >> >
      >> >> > simulator.
      >> >> >
      >> >> > > You still need to keep the rear O2 sensor in the pipe. I just
      >> >> >
      >> >> > fastened my
      >> >> >
      >> >> > > rear O2 sensor up to the undercarriage when I put my O2 simulator
      >> >>
      >> >> in,
      >> >>
      >> >> > and
      >> >> >
      >> >> > > in 3 days I had a CEL. The guys at )2 sim.com told me to re
      >> >>
      >> >> install
      >> >>
      >> >> > it in
      >> >> >
      >> >> > > the pipe and I would have no problem, I did and it works great, i
      >> >> >
      >> >> > think it
      >> >> >
      >> >> > > has something to do with the heater still being hooked up.
      >> >>
      >> >> Anywys no
      >> >>
      >> >> > > biggie just thought I wouldd share an experience.
      >> >> >
      >> >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >>
      >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >>
      >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >> >
      >> > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
      >>
      >>
      >>
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      > Yahoo! Groups Links
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