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Re: [nwbluegrass] single Microphone advice

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  • Dave Campbell
    The issue that you run into when trying to use monitors with the single mic approach is that you run up against the feedback ceiling before you get enough gain
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 27, 2013
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      The issue that you run into when trying to use monitors with the single mic approach is that you run up against the feedback ceiling before you get enough gain to be really useful. The use of monitors requires getting as close to the mic as possible, which can be a challenge, and spending some time doing some careful work with EQ and monitor placement. This is true no matter what kind of mics you use. Using a pair of mics with a tighter pattern such as Audix OM5's for example may provide a little bit higher feedback ceiling than the 57s but you will still need to do the extra work. You will also need to compensate for the loss of low frequencies, as you are farther away from the mics than usual and they exhibit a significant proximity effect.

      -Dave
      (Woodinville)


      On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Dave Campbell <dfcampbe@...> wrote:
      Hi Mark,

      The single mic approach doesn't generally work well in a noisy environment so it might not be the best choice for a bar. But for other venues, my preference is an AT4047 or 4050, or a Rode NT4 which is actually a stereo mic. There are probably some less expensive options out there, but I haven't found anything I like better at this point. I may experiment with a Cascade V57 at the Maltby jam in October to see how it works out.

      -Dave
      (Woodinville)

      -Dave


      On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Mark Steudel <msteudel@...> wrote:
       

      Another group I'm playing with is starting from scratch as far as
      sound equipment and I was thinking that since it's small (a quartet
      including bass) we might be able to do the whole 1 mic thing. I was
      wondering what recommendations folks have for a "entry" (I know it
      might be expensive) level microphone that would work to do the whole
      single mic thing. And also some small speakers that would work in bars
      or farmers markets ...

      Thanks!
      --
      -----------------------------------------
      Mark Steudel
      P: 425.298.7244
      F: 206.260.3021
      msteudel@...

      . : Adoption Updates : .
      http://www.steudel.org/blog

      . : Work : .
      http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

      . : LinkedIn : .
      http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel



    • Mark G
      I have a little experience with single mic usage. There are a couple of issues that Dave has described that will increase your problems. One is a noisy
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 30, 2013
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        I have a little experience with single mic usage. There are a couple of issues that Dave has described that will increase your problems. One is a noisy environment. In a bar, loud farmers market, etc. the background noise is high enough for a large diaphragm mic to pick up and it is very difficult to get any gain over that background noise. 

        Plus the monitor problem. Having monitors in front of an LD mic is a disaster waiting to happen. The best solution I have found is to set "side fill" monitors up at either side of the stage pointing behind the band. Still, lots of problems. 

        As far as microphones, I have used Shure KSM44, KSM32, AT4033, 4050, 4047, Rode NT1, NT2 and NT4 stereo mic pair. Also used two Neumann KM184's on a group out of Canada. 

        Just this weekend in Tygh Valley we used an AT 2020 and my standby mic, a CAD M179. The AT mic worked fine, but there were no monitors. I have found the CAD M179 to be the best bang for the buck mic available. It is variable pattern so you can close the pattern down in a noisy room or open it up in a big outdoor stage. They cost under $200 with a shock mount. Since I started using the CAD mic, I leave my AT4047 and 4050 mics in the studio. 

        I would suggest doing some serious thinking about where you are going to be playing. Outdoors in the wind a LD mic can be difficult. In noisy environments, an LD mic can be difficult, etc. If you ever play where someone runs sound and they have no clue about bluegrass and provide big subs, lots of power, etc. an LD mic can be really difficult. 

        Unless you want to keep the "traditional" look, I suggest separate SM58 mics for vocals and SM57's for the instruments. That combination will work everywhere, every time and they work great with monitors. 

        Just my .02

        Mark Gensman
        Ground Zero Sound

        Eastside Bluegrass Concert Series
        Goldendale
        Tygh Valley
        Sacajawea
        Clatskanie
        Susanville 2014


        To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
        From: dfcampbe@...
        Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:55:04 -0700
        Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] single Microphone advice

         

        The issue that you run into when trying to use monitors with the single mic approach is that you run up against the feedback ceiling before you get enough gain to be really useful. The use of monitors requires getting as close to the mic as possible, which can be a challenge, and spending some time doing some careful work with EQ and monitor placement. This is true no matter what kind of mics you use. Using a pair of mics with a tighter pattern such as Audix OM5's for example may provide a little bit higher feedback ceiling than the 57s but you will still need to do the extra work. You will also need to compensate for the loss of low frequencies, as you are farther away from the mics than usual and they exhibit a significant proximity effect.

        -Dave
        (Woodinville)


        On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Dave Campbell <dfcampbe@...> wrote:
        Hi Mark,

        The single mic approach doesn't generally work well in a noisy environment so it might not be the best choice for a bar. But for other venues, my preference is an AT4047 or 4050, or a Rode NT4 which is actually a stereo mic. There are probably some less expensive options out there, but I haven't found anything I like better at this point. I may experiment with a Cascade V57 at the Maltby jam in October to see how it works out.

        -Dave
        (Woodinville)

        -Dave


        On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Mark Steudel <msteudel@...> wrote:
         
        Another group I'm playing with is starting from scratch as far as
        sound equipment and I was thinking that since it's small (a quartet
        including bass) we might be able to do the whole 1 mic thing. I was
        wondering what recommendations folks have for a "entry" (I know it
        might be expensive) level microphone that would work to do the whole
        single mic thing. And also some small speakers that would work in bars
        or farmers markets ...

        Thanks!
        --
        -----------------------------------------
        Mark Steudel
        P: 425.298.7244
        F: 206.260.3021
        msteudel@...

        . : Adoption Updates : .
        http://www.steudel.org/blog

        . : Work : .
        http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

        . : LinkedIn : .
        http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel




      • Mark Steudel
        Thanks to both of you some good thoughts. Can two people sing into a single mic for example a lead vocal and then someone stepping up and adding some harmony.
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 30, 2013
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          Thanks to both of you some good thoughts. Can two people sing into a single mic for example a lead vocal and then someone stepping up and adding some harmony.


          On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
           

          I have a little experience with single mic usage. There are a couple of issues that Dave has described that will increase your problems. One is a noisy environment. In a bar, loud farmers market, etc. the background noise is high enough for a large diaphragm mic to pick up and it is very difficult to get any gain over that background noise. 

          Plus the monitor problem. Having monitors in front of an LD mic is a disaster waiting to happen. The best solution I have found is to set "side fill" monitors up at either side of the stage pointing behind the band. Still, lots of problems. 

          As far as microphones, I have used Shure KSM44, KSM32, AT4033, 4050, 4047, Rode NT1, NT2 and NT4 stereo mic pair. Also used two Neumann KM184's on a group out of Canada. 

          Just this weekend in Tygh Valley we used an AT 2020 and my standby mic, a CAD M179. The AT mic worked fine, but there were no monitors. I have found the CAD M179 to be the best bang for the buck mic available. It is variable pattern so you can close the pattern down in a noisy room or open it up in a big outdoor stage. They cost under $200 with a shock mount. Since I started using the CAD mic, I leave my AT4047 and 4050 mics in the studio. 

          I would suggest doing some serious thinking about where you are going to be playing. Outdoors in the wind a LD mic can be difficult. In noisy environments, an LD mic can be difficult, etc. If you ever play where someone runs sound and they have no clue about bluegrass and provide big subs, lots of power, etc. an LD mic can be really difficult. 

          Unless you want to keep the "traditional" look, I suggest separate SM58 mics for vocals and SM57's for the instruments. That combination will work everywhere, every time and they work great with monitors. 

          Just my .02

          Mark Gensman
          Ground Zero Sound

          Eastside Bluegrass Concert Series
          Goldendale
          Tygh Valley
          Sacajawea
          Clatskanie
          Susanville 2014


          To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
          From: dfcampbe@...
          Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:55:04 -0700
          Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] single Microphone advice


           

          The issue that you run into when trying to use monitors with the single mic approach is that you run up against the feedback ceiling before you get enough gain to be really useful. The use of monitors requires getting as close to the mic as possible, which can be a challenge, and spending some time doing some careful work with EQ and monitor placement. This is true no matter what kind of mics you use. Using a pair of mics with a tighter pattern such as Audix OM5's for example may provide a little bit higher feedback ceiling than the 57s but you will still need to do the extra work. You will also need to compensate for the loss of low frequencies, as you are farther away from the mics than usual and they exhibit a significant proximity effect.

          -Dave
          (Woodinville)


          On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Dave Campbell <dfcampbe@...> wrote:
          Hi Mark,

          The single mic approach doesn't generally work well in a noisy environment so it might not be the best choice for a bar. But for other venues, my preference is an AT4047 or 4050, or a Rode NT4 which is actually a stereo mic. There are probably some less expensive options out there, but I haven't found anything I like better at this point. I may experiment with a Cascade V57 at the Maltby jam in October to see how it works out.

          -Dave
          (Woodinville)

          -Dave


          On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Mark Steudel <msteudel@...> wrote:
           
          Another group I'm playing with is starting from scratch as far as
          sound equipment and I was thinking that since it's small (a quartet
          including bass) we might be able to do the whole 1 mic thing. I was
          wondering what recommendations folks have for a "entry" (I know it
          might be expensive) level microphone that would work to do the whole
          single mic thing. And also some small speakers that would work in bars
          or farmers markets ...

          Thanks!
          --
          -----------------------------------------
          Mark Steudel
          P: 425.298.7244
          F: 206.260.3021
          msteudel@...

          . : Adoption Updates : .
          http://www.steudel.org/blog

          . : Work : .
          http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

          . : LinkedIn : .
          http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel







          --
          -----------------------------------------
          Mark Steudel
          P: 425.298.7244
          F: 206.260.3021
          msteudel@...

          . : Adoption Updates : .
          http://www.steudel.org/blog

          . : Work : .
          http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

          . : LinkedIn : .
          http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel
        • Mark G
          Mark, At Tygh Valley this last weekend, because of the weather, we had to move inside. I have a small eight channel powered mixer set up for the Friday night
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 30, 2013
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            Mark, 

            At Tygh Valley this last weekend, because of the weather, we had to move inside. I have a small eight channel powered mixer set up for the Friday night show and the Sunday Gospel show. We ended up using that mixer all day Saturday also. 

            Because of a lack of channels, several bands had to share the microphones and it worked just fine. The key is to practice. In my wife's band, (Kathy Boyd & Phoenix Rising), they frequently share mics for vocals and again, with practice, it works just fine. They used to use three LD condenser mics, but because of the problems when using huge concert sound systems or systems designed for rock and modern country, they now use individual mics with much better results. 

            Mark Gensman
            Ground Zero Sound


            To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
            From: msteudel@...
            Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 16:31:46 -0700
            Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] single Microphone advice

             

            Thanks to both of you some good thoughts. Can two people sing into a single mic for example a lead vocal and then someone stepping up and adding some harmony.


            On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
             

            I have a little experience with single mic usage. There are a couple of issues that Dave has described that will increase your problems. One is a noisy environment. In a bar, loud farmers market, etc. the background noise is high enough for a large diaphragm mic to pick up and it is very difficult to get any gain over that background noise. 

            Plus the monitor problem. Having monitors in front of an LD mic is a disaster waiting to happen. The best solution I have found is to set "side fill" monitors up at either side of the stage pointing behind the band. Still, lots of problems. 

            As far as microphones, I have used Shure KSM44, KSM32, AT4033, 4050, 4047, Rode NT1, NT2 and NT4 stereo mic pair. Also used two Neumann KM184's on a group out of Canada. 

            Just this weekend in Tygh Valley we used an AT 2020 and my standby mic, a CAD M179. The AT mic worked fine, but there were no monitors. I have found the CAD M179 to be the best bang for the buck mic available. It is variable pattern so you can close the pattern down in a noisy room or open it up in a big outdoor stage. They cost under $200 with a shock mount. Since I started using the CAD mic, I leave my AT4047 and 4050 mics in the studio. 

            I would suggest doing some serious thinking about where you are going to be playing. Outdoors in the wind a LD mic can be difficult. In noisy environments, an LD mic can be difficult, etc. If you ever play where someone runs sound and they have no clue about bluegrass and provide big subs, lots of power, etc. an LD mic can be really difficult. 

            Unless you want to keep the "traditional" look, I suggest separate SM58 mics for vocals and SM57's for the instruments. That combination will work everywhere, every time and they work great with monitors. 

            Just my .02

            Mark Gensman
            Ground Zero Sound

            Eastside Bluegrass Concert Series
            Goldendale
            Tygh Valley
            Sacajawea
            Clatskanie
            Susanville 2014


            To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
            From: dfcampbe@...
            Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 15:55:04 -0700
            Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] single Microphone advice


             

            The issue that you run into when trying to use monitors with the single mic approach is that you run up against the feedback ceiling before you get enough gain to be really useful. The use of monitors requires getting as close to the mic as possible, which can be a challenge, and spending some time doing some careful work with EQ and monitor placement. This is true no matter what kind of mics you use. Using a pair of mics with a tighter pattern such as Audix OM5's for example may provide a little bit higher feedback ceiling than the 57s but you will still need to do the extra work. You will also need to compensate for the loss of low frequencies, as you are farther away from the mics than usual and they exhibit a significant proximity effect.

            -Dave
            (Woodinville)


            On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Dave Campbell <dfcampbe@...> wrote:
            Hi Mark,

            The single mic approach doesn't generally work well in a noisy environment so it might not be the best choice for a bar. But for other venues, my preference is an AT4047 or 4050, or a Rode NT4 which is actually a stereo mic. There are probably some less expensive options out there, but I haven't found anything I like better at this point. I may experiment with a Cascade V57 at the Maltby jam in October to see how it works out.

            -Dave
            (Woodinville)

            -Dave


            On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 1:26 PM, Mark Steudel <msteudel@...> wrote:
             
            Another group I'm playing with is starting from scratch as far as
            sound equipment and I was thinking that since it's small (a quartet
            including bass) we might be able to do the whole 1 mic thing. I was
            wondering what recommendations folks have for a "entry" (I know it
            might be expensive) level microphone that would work to do the whole
            single mic thing. And also some small speakers that would work in bars
            or farmers markets ...

            Thanks!
            --
            -----------------------------------------
            Mark Steudel
            P: 425.298.7244
            F: 206.260.3021
            msteudel@...

            . : Adoption Updates : .
            http://www.steudel.org/blog

            . : Work : .
            http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

            . : LinkedIn : .
            http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel








            --
            -----------------------------------------
            Mark Steudel
            P: 425.298.7244
            F: 206.260.3021
            msteudel@...

            . : Adoption Updates : .
            http://www.steudel.org/blog

            . : Work : .
            http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

            . : LinkedIn : .
            http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel

          • chuck_c_h
            Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I ve been in have pretty much given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don t need
            Message 5 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
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              Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
              given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
              monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
              little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

              In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
              a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
              Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
              instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
              difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
              mic with good monitors for feedback.

              Chuck
            • Mark Steudel
              Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we re worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops,
              Message 6 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
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                Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we're worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops, maybe a farmers market


                On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM, <chaynie@...> wrote:
                 

                Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
                Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
                instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
                difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                mic with good monitors for feedback.

                Chuck




                --
                -----------------------------------------
                Mark Steudel
                P: 425.298.7244
                F: 206.260.3021
                msteudel@...

                . : Adoption Updates : .
                http://www.steudel.org/blog

                . : Work : .
                http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                . : LinkedIn : .
                http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel
              • peter@newearthmusic
                I have a couple ideas but my thoughts or opinions do not consider important technical issues such as Dave points out. As a player and mixer and listener, I
                Message 7 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
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                  I have a couple ideas but my thoughts or opinions do not consider important technical issues such as Dave points out. As a player and mixer and listener, I know what works for my event situations although I learn something new often enough.

                   

                  The overriding theory for my approach is that there is a difficult dynamic between trying to use a consistent equipment approach and accounting for stages, festivals, barns, auditoriums & bars, and noise and all the other factors you are probably aware of.

                   

                  Condenser mics or other equipment specific examples sometimes work for one setup but not another, or one sound-person and not another.  For me it is impractical to expect ideal conditions to be repeated over and over and unfortunately to be efficiently prepared, I lean toward the lowest common denominators that will work night after night or venue after venue, especially if you have to mix your own sound and control & consistency are vital.

                   

                  Condenser mics: for the most part, I cannot stand the edgy sound of condenser mics, although they are effective in many situations including the wide-area large mic.  In a quieter stage setting with expert sound-person and band that can use the mic effectively, the wide-area condenser can replicate the sound and intent of the sound closely.

                   

                  I really dislike the condenser mics and that was again proven to me at recent and otherwise fantastic concert.  The tone of the violin was edgy, faint, trebly and very electric sounding.   The mandolin sounded a little better but it was still tinny and the volume on both was out of balance from the other instruments.

                   

                  The guitar player used his mic very effectively, so the condenser edge sounded better.  He was all over his mic on solos and they were full tone and appropriately loud.  But I’ve used condensers on violin and mandolin several times and I usually can’t stand them.

                   

                  However, just because the guitar player worked his mic, there should have been a better sounding solution for the two front guys to get a full sound.  It seems like it would be hard to do with one guy on guitar working the mic close and the other two working the mic away. 

                   

                  When left with no sound person or good way to mix mics and monitors and venues, the best set up for me is to have some sort of pickup that I can at least plug into a little monitor amp and that is what I do with the mando and fiddle.  Or I plug a pickup in the board for monitor control purposes and to beef up the sound and then use a mic.

                   

                  Depending on how much space there is to fill, I use a good mic as the main sound source for the instruments depending on the little amp as the stage monitor.  If I want to beef up the system sound, then I also run a line out from the stage amp/monitor.  This also ensures you can hear yourself no matter who is doing what to mess up your sound or your ability to hear.  That is the only way I can have some control over the last point-of-failure in a disastrous or bad sound situations which happen about 50% of the time.

                   

                  The pickup/amp/PA system setup is not desirable to many and I would back off of that if I could find a reliable and consistent way to know the sound is OK and to be able to hear myself play in balance with the other players and stay acoustic.  I am more concerned about focusing on the overall music and entertaining the audience which is more difficult if the sound isn’t right or you can’t get it right as you adjust it along the way...

                   

                  The basic question was

                   

                  Technically, what I would like to know is what is a reasonably priced (say $200+/-) non-condenser mic might beat the sound and durability of the ever-reliable SM-57 or SM-58.  I have an AKG that does a better job but it is an older model now.

                   

                  From: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of chaynie@...
                  Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2013 12:10 PM
                  To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                   

                  Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                  given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                  monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                  little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                  In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                  a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
                  Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
                  instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
                  difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                  mic with good monitors for feedback.

                  Chuck

                • Mark G
                  There are a lot of dynamic mics available in your $200 range that might do a better job then the ubiquitous SM57. The problem is trying to try all of them out.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
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                    There are a lot of dynamic mics available in your $200 range that might do a better job then the ubiquitous SM57. The problem is trying to try all of them out. I have several dynamic mics that I use on acoustic instruments and some work well, some not so much. 

                    In the price range you discuss, there are Blue mics, Sennheiser mics, Audix mics, Shure mics, Rode mics and Heil mics..all dynamics. Plus AKG, AT, etc. mics that may be less expensive. 

                    I have had excellent luck with the SM57 mic and the reliability cannot be beat. I have several that I bought new in 1974 that still work as new. I also use a Chinese clone of the SM57 with very good results. In fact, my main acoustic instrument mics are inexpensive clones of the SM57 that simply sound better to me. I have been using them for nearly three years without any failures although I still carry several SM57's just in case. 

                    Try to find somewhere you can set all the different dynamics up and give them a try. Spending more money does not guarantee the sound will be any better. 

                    Mark Gensman
                    Ground Zero Sound


                    To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                    From: pt@...
                    Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 15:22:51 -0700
                    Subject: RE: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                     

                    ----SNIP-----

                     

                    Technically, what I would like to know is what is a reasonably priced (say $200+/-) non-condenser mic might beat the sound and durability of the ever-reliable SM-57 or SM-58.  I have an AKG that does a better job but it is an older model now.

                     



                  • Mark G
                    Mark, I can help you out with inexpensive but nice sounding monitors. I buy Kustom 10 inch monitor cabinets off Craigslist for $50 a pair. They sound terrible
                    Message 9 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
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                      Mark, 

                      I can help you out with inexpensive but nice sounding monitors. I buy Kustom 10 inch monitor cabinets off Craigslist for $50 a pair. They sound terrible with their cheap Chinese speakers. I take the speakers out, go to Jamac on Sandy Blvd in Portland and buy Peavey Scorpion 300 watt speakers for around $40 each. I replace the cheap speakers with the Peavey speakers and the monitors really sound nice. Plus the cabinet is well made with a pole mount for small PA use and two separate angles are available. 

                      Pretty hard to beat for the money. For speakers a lot of folks are going active (powered) speakers these days. QSC K12's seem to be the most popular, but Yamaha makes two series of powered speakers getting great reviews and Electro Voice makes their Live X series that also get great reviews. Not cheap. 

                      For great sounding passive speakers, I use Yamaha SV12's. They are not that expensive and sound great. I used them all weekend at Tygh Valley in the exhibit shed with great results. 

                      Mark Gensman
                      Ground Zero Sound


                      To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                      From: msteudel@...
                      Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:25:03 -0700
                      Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                       

                      Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we're worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops, maybe a farmers market


                      On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM, <chaynie@...> wrote:
                       
                      Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                      given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                      monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                      little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                      In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                      a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
                      Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
                      instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
                      difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                      mic with good monitors for feedback.

                      Chuck





                      --
                      -----------------------------------------
                      Mark Steudel
                      P: 425.298.7244
                      F: 206.260.3021
                      msteudel@...

                      . : Adoption Updates : .
                      http://www.steudel.org/blog

                      . : Work : .
                      http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                      . : LinkedIn : .
                      http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel

                    • Mark Steudel
                      Thanks Mark, the monitors sound like a great way to go. For speakers is it possible to go cheaper, I looked up the k12s and they are about 700 bucks! MS ... --
                      Message 10 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
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                        Thanks Mark, the monitors sound like a great way to go. For speakers is it possible to go cheaper, I looked up the k12s and they are about 700 bucks!

                        MS


                        On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                         

                        Mark, 

                        I can help you out with inexpensive but nice sounding monitors. I buy Kustom 10 inch monitor cabinets off Craigslist for $50 a pair. They sound terrible with their cheap Chinese speakers. I take the speakers out, go to Jamac on Sandy Blvd in Portland and buy Peavey Scorpion 300 watt speakers for around $40 each. I replace the cheap speakers with the Peavey speakers and the monitors really sound nice. Plus the cabinet is well made with a pole mount for small PA use and two separate angles are available. 

                        Pretty hard to beat for the money. For speakers a lot of folks are going active (powered) speakers these days. QSC K12's seem to be the most popular, but Yamaha makes two series of powered speakers getting great reviews and Electro Voice makes their Live X series that also get great reviews. Not cheap. 

                        For great sounding passive speakers, I use Yamaha SV12's. They are not that expensive and sound great. I used them all weekend at Tygh Valley in the exhibit shed with great results. 

                        Mark Gensman
                        Ground Zero Sound


                        To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                        From: msteudel@...
                        Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:25:03 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                         

                        Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we're worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops, maybe a farmers market


                        On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM, <chaynie@...> wrote:
                         
                        Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                        given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                        monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                        little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                        In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                        a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
                        Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
                        instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
                        difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                        mic with good monitors for feedback.

                        Chuck





                        --
                        -----------------------------------------
                        Mark Steudel
                        P: 425.298.7244
                        F: 206.260.3021
                        msteudel@...

                        . : Adoption Updates : .
                        http://www.steudel.org/blog

                        . : Work : .
                        http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                        . : LinkedIn : .
                        http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel




                        --
                        -----------------------------------------
                        Mark Steudel
                        P: 425.298.7244
                        F: 206.260.3021
                        msteudel@...

                        . : Adoption Updates : .
                        http://www.steudel.org/blog

                        . : Work : .
                        http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                        . : LinkedIn : .
                        http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel
                      • Mark G
                        It certainly is possible to go cheaper on powered speakers. Brands like Behringer, Harbinger, Phonic etc. all make inexpensive powered speakers. I actually
                        Message 11 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          It certainly is possible to go cheaper on powered speakers. Brands like Behringer, Harbinger, Phonic etc. all make inexpensive powered speakers. I actually have not heard a lot of bad things about Behringer speakers, compared to their mixers and other electronics. 

                          If cheap is the direction you want to go, check out Behringer powered speakers. Any of the others are pure junk and I would avoid them. 

                          Mark Gensman
                          Ground Zero Sound


                          To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                          From: msteudel@...
                          Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:14:25 -0700
                          Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                           

                          Thanks Mark, the monitors sound like a great way to go. For speakers is it possible to go cheaper, I looked up the k12s and they are about 700 bucks!

                          MS


                          On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                           

                          Mark, 

                          I can help you out with inexpensive but nice sounding monitors. I buy Kustom 10 inch monitor cabinets off Craigslist for $50 a pair. They sound terrible with their cheap Chinese speakers. I take the speakers out, go to Jamac on Sandy Blvd in Portland and buy Peavey Scorpion 300 watt speakers for around $40 each. I replace the cheap speakers with the Peavey speakers and the monitors really sound nice. Plus the cabinet is well made with a pole mount for small PA use and two separate angles are available. 

                          Pretty hard to beat for the money. For speakers a lot of folks are going active (powered) speakers these days. QSC K12's seem to be the most popular, but Yamaha makes two series of powered speakers getting great reviews and Electro Voice makes their Live X series that also get great reviews. Not cheap. 

                          For great sounding passive speakers, I use Yamaha SV12's. They are not that expensive and sound great. I used them all weekend at Tygh Valley in the exhibit shed with great results. 

                          Mark Gensman
                          Ground Zero Sound


                          To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                          From: msteudel@...
                          Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:25:03 -0700
                          Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                           

                          Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we're worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops, maybe a farmers market


                          On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM, <chaynie@...> wrote:
                           
                          Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                          given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                          monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                          little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                          In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                          a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
                          Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
                          instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
                          difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                          mic with good monitors for feedback.

                          Chuck





                          --
                          -----------------------------------------
                          Mark Steudel
                          P: 425.298.7244
                          F: 206.260.3021
                          msteudel@...

                          . : Adoption Updates : .
                          http://www.steudel.org/blog

                          . : Work : .
                          http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                          . : LinkedIn : .
                          http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel





                          --
                          -----------------------------------------
                          Mark Steudel
                          P: 425.298.7244
                          F: 206.260.3021
                          msteudel@...

                          . : Adoption Updates : .
                          http://www.steudel.org/blog

                          . : Work : .
                          http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                          . : LinkedIn : .
                          http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel

                        • Mark Steudel
                          Like these (not sure if the link will come through)
                          Message 12 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment


                            On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                             

                            It certainly is possible to go cheaper on powered speakers. Brands like Behringer, Harbinger, Phonic etc. all make inexpensive powered speakers. I actually have not heard a lot of bad things about Behringer speakers, compared to their mixers and other electronics. 

                            If cheap is the direction you want to go, check out Behringer powered speakers. Any of the others are pure junk and I would avoid them. 

                            Mark Gensman
                            Ground Zero Sound

                            Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:14:25 -0700

                            Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                             

                            Thanks Mark, the monitors sound like a great way to go. For speakers is it possible to go cheaper, I looked up the k12s and they are about 700 bucks!

                            MS


                            On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                             

                            Mark, 

                            I can help you out with inexpensive but nice sounding monitors. I buy Kustom 10 inch monitor cabinets off Craigslist for $50 a pair. They sound terrible with their cheap Chinese speakers. I take the speakers out, go to Jamac on Sandy Blvd in Portland and buy Peavey Scorpion 300 watt speakers for around $40 each. I replace the cheap speakers with the Peavey speakers and the monitors really sound nice. Plus the cabinet is well made with a pole mount for small PA use and two separate angles are available. 

                            Pretty hard to beat for the money. For speakers a lot of folks are going active (powered) speakers these days. QSC K12's seem to be the most popular, but Yamaha makes two series of powered speakers getting great reviews and Electro Voice makes their Live X series that also get great reviews. Not cheap. 

                            For great sounding passive speakers, I use Yamaha SV12's. They are not that expensive and sound great. I used them all weekend at Tygh Valley in the exhibit shed with great results. 

                            Mark Gensman
                            Ground Zero Sound


                            To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                            From: msteudel@...
                            Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:25:03 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                             

                            Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we're worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops, maybe a farmers market


                            On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM, <chaynie@...> wrote:
                             
                            Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                            given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                            monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                            little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                            In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                            a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
                            Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
                            instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
                            difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                            mic with good monitors for feedback.

                            Chuck





                            --
                            -----------------------------------------
                            Mark Steudel
                            P: 425.298.7244
                            F: 206.260.3021
                            msteudel@...

                            . : Adoption Updates : .
                            http://www.steudel.org/blog

                            . : Work : .
                            http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                            . : LinkedIn : .
                            http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel





                            --
                            -----------------------------------------
                            Mark Steudel
                            P: 425.298.7244
                            F: 206.260.3021
                            msteudel@...

                            . : Adoption Updates : .
                            http://www.steudel.org/blog

                            . : Work : .
                            http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                            . : LinkedIn : .
                            http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel




                            --
                            -----------------------------------------
                            Mark Steudel
                            P: 425.298.7244
                            F: 206.260.3021
                            msteudel@...

                            . : Adoption Updates : .
                            http://www.steudel.org/blog

                            . : Work : .
                            http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                            . : LinkedIn : .
                            http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel
                          • Jim Krowka
                            FWIW, I¹ve used Shure SM57¹s on and off for over 30 years, still have my first two bought in 1975 and they work like new. A few years ago started using
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice FWIW, I’ve used Shure SM57’s on and off for over 30 years, still have my first two bought in 1975 and they work like new.  A few years ago started using AT2010s but they seemed more prone to feedback.  Then found Shure PG81 Cardiod Condenser instrument mic and they work absolutely fantastically for accurate sound reproduction for mandolin, banjo, guitar and fiddle, hammer dulcimer etc. I think the PG 81’s give much more accurate sound reproduction of the acoustic instruments than the SM 57s.  I’ve used them to mic instruments in smaller duo settings and band settings, however have found that guitar really needs a pickup if I’m going to be heard through smaller sound systems in band settings without a sound person and especially of others are using pickups.  For vocals the SM 57’s can’t be beat.

                              Jim


                              On 10/1/13 4:32 PM, "Mark Steudel" <msteudel@...> wrote:


                               
                               
                                 

                              Like these (not sure if the link will come through)
                              http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-eurolive-vp1520dsp-active-550-watt-15-speaker/h76511005000015?source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=CP7g8q_l9rkCFSVBQgodTjkAcw&kwid=productads-plaid%5e58357084347-sku%5eH76511005000015@ADL4MF-adType%5ePLA-device%5ec-adid%5e30423292947 <http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/behringer-eurolive-vp1520dsp-active-550-watt-15-speaker/h76511005000015?source=3WWRWXGP&amp;gclid=CP7g8q_l9rkCFSVBQgodTjkAcw&amp;kwid=productads-plaid%5e58357084347-sku%5eH76511005000015@ADL4MF-adType%5ePLA-device%>


                              On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                               
                               
                               
                                 

                              It certainly is possible to go cheaper on powered speakers. Brands like Behringer, Harbinger, Phonic etc. all make inexpensive powered speakers. I actually have not heard a lot of bad things about Behringer speakers, compared to their mixers and other electronics. 

                              If cheap is the direction you want to go, check out Behringer powered speakers. Any of the others are pure junk and I would avoid them. 

                              Mark Gensman
                              Ground Zero Sound


                              To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                              From: msteudel@...
                              Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:14:25 -0700

                              Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                               
                               
                               
                                 
                              Thanks Mark, the monitors sound like a great way to go. For speakers is it possible to go cheaper, I looked up the k12s and they are about 700 bucks!

                              MS


                              On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                               
                               
                               
                                 
                              Mark, 

                              I can help you out with inexpensive but nice sounding monitors. I buy Kustom 10 inch monitor cabinets off Craigslist for $50 a pair. They sound terrible with their cheap Chinese speakers. I take the speakers out, go to Jamac on Sandy Blvd in Portland and buy Peavey Scorpion 300 watt speakers for around $40 each. I replace the cheap speakers with the Peavey speakers and the monitors really sound nice. Plus the cabinet is well made with a pole mount for small PA use and two separate angles are available. 

                              Pretty hard to beat for the money. For speakers a lot of folks are going active (powered) speakers these days. QSC K12's seem to be the most popular, but Yamaha makes two series of powered speakers getting great reviews and Electro Voice makes their Live X series that also get great reviews. Not cheap. 

                              For great sounding passive speakers, I use Yamaha SV12's. They are not that expensive and sound great. I used them all weekend at Tygh Valley in the exhibit shed with great results. 

                              Mark Gensman
                              Ground Zero Sound


                              To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                              From: msteudel@...
                              Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:25:03 -0700
                              Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                               
                               
                               
                                 
                              Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we're worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops, maybe a farmers market


                              On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM,  <chaynie@...> wrote:
                               
                               
                               
                                 Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                              given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                              monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                              little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                              In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                              a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.  
                              Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves.  It is easy to play the
                              instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing.  It is just too
                              difficult for amateurs in my opinion.  It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                              mic with good monitors for feedback.

                              Chuck


                               
                                 
                               


                            • Mark G
                              I would recommend a 12 speaker for bluegrass over a 15 unless you are playing for more than a couple of hundred folks. And I would make sure the speaker had
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I would recommend a 12" speaker for bluegrass over a 15 unless you are playing for more than a couple of hundred folks. And I would make sure the speaker had at least 1.5" horns. 

                                The fifteens are not bad, just too much speaker for most bluegrass gigs and why carry any more weight than necessary?

                                Mark Gensman
                                Ground Zero Sound


                                To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                                From: msteudel@...
                                Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:32:43 -0700
                                Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                                 



                                On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                                 

                                It certainly is possible to go cheaper on powered speakers. Brands like Behringer, Harbinger, Phonic etc. all make inexpensive powered speakers. I actually have not heard a lot of bad things about Behringer speakers, compared to their mixers and other electronics. 

                                If cheap is the direction you want to go, check out Behringer powered speakers. Any of the others are pure junk and I would avoid them. 

                                Mark Gensman
                                Ground Zero Sound

                                Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:14:25 -0700

                                Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                                 

                                Thanks Mark, the monitors sound like a great way to go. For speakers is it possible to go cheaper, I looked up the k12s and they are about 700 bucks!

                                MS


                                On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                                 

                                Mark, 

                                I can help you out with inexpensive but nice sounding monitors. I buy Kustom 10 inch monitor cabinets off Craigslist for $50 a pair. They sound terrible with their cheap Chinese speakers. I take the speakers out, go to Jamac on Sandy Blvd in Portland and buy Peavey Scorpion 300 watt speakers for around $40 each. I replace the cheap speakers with the Peavey speakers and the monitors really sound nice. Plus the cabinet is well made with a pole mount for small PA use and two separate angles are available. 

                                Pretty hard to beat for the money. For speakers a lot of folks are going active (powered) speakers these days. QSC K12's seem to be the most popular, but Yamaha makes two series of powered speakers getting great reviews and Electro Voice makes their Live X series that also get great reviews. Not cheap. 

                                For great sounding passive speakers, I use Yamaha SV12's. They are not that expensive and sound great. I used them all weekend at Tygh Valley in the exhibit shed with great results. 

                                Mark Gensman
                                Ground Zero Sound


                                To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                                From: msteudel@...
                                Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:25:03 -0700
                                Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                                 

                                Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we're worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops, maybe a farmers market


                                On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM, <chaynie@...> wrote:
                                 
                                Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                                given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                                monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                                little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                                In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                                a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
                                Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
                                instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
                                difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                                mic with good monitors for feedback.

                                Chuck





                                --
                                -----------------------------------------
                                Mark Steudel
                                P: 425.298.7244
                                F: 206.260.3021
                                msteudel@...

                                . : Adoption Updates : .
                                http://www.steudel.org/blog

                                . : Work : .
                                http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                                . : LinkedIn : .
                                http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel





                                --
                                -----------------------------------------
                                Mark Steudel
                                P: 425.298.7244
                                F: 206.260.3021
                                msteudel@...

                                . : Adoption Updates : .
                                http://www.steudel.org/blog

                                . : Work : .
                                http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                                . : LinkedIn : .
                                http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel





                                --
                                -----------------------------------------
                                Mark Steudel
                                P: 425.298.7244
                                F: 206.260.3021
                                msteudel@...

                                . : Adoption Updates : .
                                http://www.steudel.org/blog

                                . : Work : .
                                http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                                . : LinkedIn : .
                                http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel

                              • Mark Steudel
                                Sweet, always happy to carry around less cr... err stuff. ... -- ... Mark Steudel P: 425.298.7244 F: 206.260.3021 msteudel@gmail.com . : Adoption Updates : .
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 1, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Sweet, always happy to carry around less cr... err stuff.


                                  On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:02 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  I would recommend a 12" speaker for bluegrass over a 15 unless you are playing for more than a couple of hundred folks. And I would make sure the speaker had at least 1.5" horns. 

                                  The fifteens are not bad, just too much speaker for most bluegrass gigs and why carry any more weight than necessary?

                                  Mark Gensman
                                  Ground Zero Sound

                                  Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:32:43 -0700

                                  Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                                   



                                  On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:21 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  It certainly is possible to go cheaper on powered speakers. Brands like Behringer, Harbinger, Phonic etc. all make inexpensive powered speakers. I actually have not heard a lot of bad things about Behringer speakers, compared to their mixers and other electronics. 

                                  If cheap is the direction you want to go, check out Behringer powered speakers. Any of the others are pure junk and I would avoid them. 

                                  Mark Gensman
                                  Ground Zero Sound

                                  Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 16:14:25 -0700

                                  Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                                   

                                  Thanks Mark, the monitors sound like a great way to go. For speakers is it possible to go cheaper, I looked up the k12s and they are about 700 bucks!

                                  MS


                                  On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:08 PM, Mark G <GZsound@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Mark, 

                                  I can help you out with inexpensive but nice sounding monitors. I buy Kustom 10 inch monitor cabinets off Craigslist for $50 a pair. They sound terrible with their cheap Chinese speakers. I take the speakers out, go to Jamac on Sandy Blvd in Portland and buy Peavey Scorpion 300 watt speakers for around $40 each. I replace the cheap speakers with the Peavey speakers and the monitors really sound nice. Plus the cabinet is well made with a pole mount for small PA use and two separate angles are available. 

                                  Pretty hard to beat for the money. For speakers a lot of folks are going active (powered) speakers these days. QSC K12's seem to be the most popular, but Yamaha makes two series of powered speakers getting great reviews and Electro Voice makes their Live X series that also get great reviews. Not cheap. 

                                  For great sounding passive speakers, I use Yamaha SV12's. They are not that expensive and sound great. I used them all weekend at Tygh Valley in the exhibit shed with great results. 

                                  Mark Gensman
                                  Ground Zero Sound


                                  To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: msteudel@...
                                  Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2013 12:25:03 -0700
                                  Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: single Microphone advice

                                   

                                  Thanks chuck, do you guys have any suggestions on inexpensive monitors and speakers? I think all we're worried about is smaller venues: bars, coffee shops, maybe a farmers market


                                  On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 12:10 PM, <chaynie@...> wrote:
                                   
                                  Consistent with what Mark Ginsman says, the bands I've been in have pretty much
                                  given up large condenser mics except for outside use when we don't need
                                  monitors and when it is necessary to decrease the number of mics with the
                                  little 4 channel mixer we sometimes use.

                                  In addition to the lack of headroom especially in noisy indoor venues, there is
                                  a big problem of being sufficiently practiced using the large condenser mic.
                                  Basically you are doing the mixing yourselves. It is easy to play the
                                  instrument hanging around your neck too loud for ones singing. It is just too
                                  difficult for amateurs in my opinion. It is just way easier to have a dynamic
                                  mic with good monitors for feedback.

                                  Chuck





                                  --
                                  -----------------------------------------
                                  Mark Steudel
                                  P: 425.298.7244
                                  F: 206.260.3021
                                  msteudel@...

                                  . : Adoption Updates : .
                                  http://www.steudel.org/blog

                                  . : Work : .
                                  http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                                  . : LinkedIn : .
                                  http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel





                                  --
                                  -----------------------------------------
                                  Mark Steudel
                                  P: 425.298.7244
                                  F: 206.260.3021
                                  msteudel@...

                                  . : Adoption Updates : .
                                  http://www.steudel.org/blog

                                  . : Work : .
                                  http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                                  . : LinkedIn : .
                                  http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel





                                  --
                                  -----------------------------------------
                                  Mark Steudel
                                  P: 425.298.7244
                                  F: 206.260.3021
                                  msteudel@...

                                  . : Adoption Updates : .
                                  http://www.steudel.org/blog

                                  . : Work : .
                                  http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                                  . : LinkedIn : .
                                  http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel




                                  --
                                  -----------------------------------------
                                  Mark Steudel
                                  P: 425.298.7244
                                  F: 206.260.3021
                                  msteudel@...

                                  . : Adoption Updates : .
                                  http://www.steudel.org/blog

                                  . : Work : .
                                  http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                                  . : LinkedIn : .
                                  http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel
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