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Re: Hey festival directors

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  • Paul Peck
    Message 1 of 28 , Jan 1, 2012
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      < I'm in total agreement with Tye on this. >

      I suggest anyone with interest and experience with applying to festivals
      write a short, polite article and send it to both the WBA and OBA
      newsletter editors with a request to publish it in print and web site.
      That will spread the word wider than this forum and hopefully catch the
      attention of those festival staffs who are not communicating with bands
      as well as they should.
      - P
    • Rod
      Just ask here for a roll call I know many of the fest reps have a presents here....!! ... Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse my brevity. Paul Peck
      Message 2 of 28 , Jan 1, 2012
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        Just ask here for a roll call I know many of the fest reps have a presents here....!!
        ---
        Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse my brevity.

        Paul Peck <paulpeck@...> wrote:



        < I'm in total agreement with Tye on this. >

        I suggest anyone with interest and experience with applying to festivals
        write a short, polite article and send it to both the WBA and OBA
        newsletter editors with a request to publish it in print and web site.
        That will spread the word wider than this forum and hopefully catch the
        attention of those festival staffs who are not communicating with bands
        as well as they should.
        - P





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rod
        Presence (sp) ... Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse my brevity. Rod wrote: Just ask here for a roll call I know many of the fest reps
        Message 3 of 28 , Jan 1, 2012
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          Presence (sp)
          ---
          Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse my brevity.

          Rod <rod@...> wrote:



          Just ask here for a roll call I know many of the fest reps have a presents here....!!
          ---
          Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse my brevity.

          Paul Peck <paulpeck@...> wrote:

          < I'm in total agreement with Tye on this. >

          I suggest anyone with interest and experience with applying to festivals
          write a short, polite article and send it to both the WBA and OBA
          newsletter editors with a request to publish it in print and web site.
          That will spread the word wider than this forum and hopefully catch the
          attention of those festival staffs who are not communicating with bands
          as well as they should.
          - P

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • eric
          This is how one promoter has answered this thread: Festivals get many hundreds of requests from bands all throughout the year via mail, phone and email.
          Message 4 of 28 , Jan 1, 2012
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            This is how one promoter has answered this thread:

            Festivals get many hundreds of requests from bands all throughout the year via mail, phone and email. Sometimes those requests reach into the thousands. Booking is usually a months long process that's a whole lot more like a moving target than it is a check list. Most festivals have very small staffs or are run by dedicated volunteers who have day jobs. Responding to all requests, particularly unsolicited requests, is just not feasible. Even the huge festivals (think Bumbershoot or Bonaroo, even Folklife) with big staffs generally don't have the resources (time/money) to respond to every request individually. If you find yourself in the position of turning down a gig, definitely call the festival you're hoping to play and ask whether or not your band is under consideration. It's usually best to abide by that old maxim, 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush', when it comes to booking your band. In other words, take the lucrative gig! You will building your fan base and the network of people who will want to hire you throughout the year - and that's a good thing!
          • Marv Sobolesky
            I have a presence here. We do not notify bands if they are not chosen. No need for it. The last day for band submissions is Dec 31 at midnight ( closed 10
            Message 5 of 28 , Jan 1, 2012
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              I have a presence here. We do not notify bands if they are not chosen. No need for it. The last day for band submissions is Dec 31 at midnight ( closed 10 hours ago). We pick bands at our January WAMA meeting and then notify the bands that were chosen. If your band submitted and doesn't hear from us by the end of January, your band wasn't chosen.

              These organizations are 100% volunteer. If you keep piling more and more duties on them, they will quit. Bands get paid at music festivals. Volunteers get absolutely nothing. No sane person would volunteer to put on a music festival. They do it solely for the love of music.

              My advice to bands that submit to play at music festivals is to ask the promoter when bands will be picked. If your not contacted shortly after that date, you were not picked. If your still not sure then call or email them. Don't expect them to contact 50 or 60 people to tell them they were not chosen.

              If you put in a job application somewhere they don't send out notices saying your application wasn't chosen for an interview.

              Again our policy at Winlock Pickersfest. " If your band was chosen you will be contacted by the end of January. If not, your band was not picked"

              Marv Sobolesky
              www.marvsmusic.com


              On Jan 1, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Rod <rod@...> wrote:

              > Just ask here for a roll call I know many of the fest reps have a presents here....!!
              > ---
              > Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse my brevity.
              >
              > Paul Peck <paulpeck@...> wrote:
              >
              > < I'm in total agreement with Tye on this. >
              >
              > I suggest anyone with interest and experience with applying to festivals
              > write a short, polite article and send it to both the WBA and OBA
              > newsletter editors with a request to publish it in print and web site.
              > That will spread the word wider than this forum and hopefully catch the
              > attention of those festival staffs who are not communicating with bands
              > as well as they should.
              > - P
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been remo
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Jim Krowka
              Good points, Marv. It¹s certainly a tough for both sides. Festival coordinators and those hiring musicians have lots to do and in many circumstances are
              Message 6 of 28 , Jan 1, 2012
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                Good points, Marv. It¹s certainly a tough for both sides. Festival
                coordinators and those hiring musicians have lots to do and in many
                circumstances are volunteers. Professional bands and musicians have booking
                agents to take care of contacting (and bugging) clubs and/or festivals for
                gigs. How many bands here on this list or who apply to play at festivals
                have booking agents? How many actually make their living from performing?
                Not me nor will I likely ever. And I certainly would not apply to play at a
                festival and drive 10 hours to play a couple hours for a couple hundred
                bucks. But I would plan to go to a festival, apply to play then if I did
                get hired it would be icing on the cake because being at the festival would
                be the first priority. For me it¹s the playing and being at a festival
                jamming and socializing that is the fun part and I would think could get any
                band good exposure if good enough. Whether at their tent or in the parking
                lot a good band could make an impression and maybe even get a gig or two or
                sell CDs from just showing up and jamming together. But I also sympathize
                that musicians have it rough organizing gigs and organizing the band with
                members all of who have their own other lives that make coordinating gigs
                difficult, especially if half of the contacts in the potential gig future
                aren¹t getting back to you. As far as festivals go, usually the booking
                period is sufficiently in advance that one can wait a month or so and not
                lose gigs due to not being able to commit to other gigs many months in
                advance, unless of course they are really big gigs, and then again we¹re
                back to the bird in the hand wisdom.

                Jim

                On 1/1/12 10:31 AM, "Marv Sobolesky" <marv@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I have a presence here. We do not notify bands if they are not chosen. No need
                > for it. The last day for band submissions is Dec 31 at midnight ( closed 10
                > hours ago). We pick bands at our January WAMA meeting and then notify the
                > bands that were chosen. If your band submitted and doesn't hear from us by the
                > end of January, your band wasn't chosen.
                >
                > These organizations are 100% volunteer. If you keep piling more and more
                > duties on them, they will quit. Bands get paid at music festivals. Volunteers
                > get absolutely nothing. No sane person would volunteer to put on a music
                > festival. They do it solely for the love of music.
                >
                > My advice to bands that submit to play at music festivals is to ask the
                > promoter when bands will be picked. If your not contacted shortly after that
                > date, you were not picked. If your still not sure then call or email them.
                > Don't expect them to contact 50 or 60 people to tell them they were not
                > chosen.
                >
                > If you put in a job application somewhere they don't send out notices saying
                > your application wasn't chosen for an interview.
                >
                > Again our policy at Winlock Pickersfest. " If your band was chosen you will be
                > contacted by the end of January. If not, your band was not picked"
                >
                > Marv Sobolesky
                > www.marvsmusic.com
                >
                > On Jan 1, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Rod <rod@... <mailto:rod%40rleap.com> >
                > wrote:
                >
                >> > Just ask here for a roll call I know many of the fest reps have a presents
                >> here....!!
                >> > ---
                >> > Sent from my Android phone. Please excuse my brevity.
                >> >
                >> > Paul Peck <paulpeck@... <mailto:paulpeck%40orcalink.com> > wrote:
                >> >
                >> > < I'm in total agreement with Tye on this. >
                >> >
                >> > I suggest anyone with interest and experience with applying to festivals
                >> > write a short, polite article and send it to both the WBA and OBA
                >> > newsletter editors with a request to publish it in print and web site.
                >> > That will spread the word wider than this forum and hopefully catch the
                >> > attention of those festival staffs who are not communicating with bands
                >> > as well as they should.
                >> > - P
                >> >
                >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been remo
                >> >
                >> >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >>>



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • flatpicker2
                I am one of those dreaded festival directors (Shelton) and admit I m guilty of often being delinquent in getting back to the inquiring groups. Eric is correct
                Message 7 of 28 , Jan 1, 2012
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                  I am one of those dreaded festival directors (Shelton) and admit I'm guilty of often being delinquent in getting back to the inquiring groups. Eric is correct that the sheer volume of duties inundates one's available time. The booking duty, scheduling, promo, and more falls on my shoulders, and there are many dozens of band solicitations throughout the year. It is indeed a big chore to organize and get back to all involved in a timely manner, especially when one is self employed and time is taken out of what can otherwise be one's workday. I make not a penny from this endeavor - all volunteer, but it's still worth it to see the event succeed year after year. Bottom line: I'm in a band too and am similarally annoyed by lack of notice, but I can relate to the reasons why this occurs.

                  Greg - Bluegrass from the Forest/Runaway Train

                  P.S. - Almost all booked, will try to get back to all bands who've applied.







                  --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, "eric" <armadilo60@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > This is how one promoter has answered this thread:
                  >
                  > Festivals get many hundreds of requests from bands all throughout the year via mail, phone and email. Sometimes those requests reach into the thousands. Booking is usually a months long process that's a whole lot more like a moving target than it is a check list. Most festivals have very small staffs or are run by dedicated volunteers who have day jobs. Responding to all requests, particularly unsolicited requests, is just not feasible. Even the huge festivals (think Bumbershoot or Bonaroo, even Folklife) with big staffs generally don't have the resources (time/money) to respond to every request individually. If you find yourself in the position of turning down a gig, definitely call the festival you're hoping to play and ask whether or not your band is under consideration. It's usually best to abide by that old maxim, 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush', when it comes to booking your band. In other words, take the lucrative gig! You will building your fan base and the network of people who will want to hire you throughout the year - and that's a good thing!
                  >
                • Robert Bulkley
                  I helped produce the Mt St Helens Bluegrass Festival many years ago and I can certainly understand the promoter s point of view. I am really happy that there
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jan 1, 2012
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                    I helped produce the Mt St Helens Bluegrass Festival many years ago
                    and I can certainly understand the promoter's point of view. I am
                    really happy that there are so many out there who have undertaken this
                    demanding and frustrating job, most of the time for no pay.

                    I am puzzled, though, by the lack of information on many websites.
                    Marv does clearly state on the WAMA website the deadline for
                    applications and the notification date. If those dates appeared on
                    festival websites, that would be more than sufficient information for
                    me. If I know that I'll hear or not hear by a certain date, then I'm
                    happy. It's also good to know exactly what format the booker wants and
                    exactly who to send stuff to, so I'm not wondering if my stuff just
                    disappeared into the ether.

                    best-
                    Rob Bulkley
                  • pcasey38@aol.com
                    I m not a band nor or a festival promoter but I have a question. Do the bands wanting to know if they are selected send a stamped, self addressed envelope
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jan 2, 2012
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                      I'm not a band nor or a festival promoter but I have a question. Do the
                      bands wanting to know if they are selected send a stamped, self addressed
                      envelope with their promo pact to get the necessary information about being
                      accepted or not accepted? Just a thought.



                      In a message dated 12/31/2011 10:34:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                      robtjb@... writes:




                      I'm in total agreement with Tye on this. Bands put a lot of work and
                      time into applying for festivals and events, whether electronically or
                      by mail, and it is very frustrating not to get any acknowledgement,
                      whether it be "yes", "no", or even "you applied too late". I often
                      wonder why most festivals don't include deadline information on their
                      websites.

                      I know that festivals probably get lots of submissions, but even a
                      simple form email reply that said something along the lines of "we got
                      your stuff, we'll decide by such-and-such a date, and if you don't
                      hear from us by such-and-such a date we're not hiring you" would be
                      welcome.

                      Not all festivals leave you in the dark, and I thank those organizers
                      who do reply to emails, return phone calls, and let bands know in a
                      timely fashion whether they've been hired or not.

                      P.S.
                      Quite a while ago we shared a bill with the Oly Mtn Boys, and they are
                      just great! Go see them!

                      best-
                      Rob Bulkley
                      The Howdy Boys
                      www.thehowdyboys.com





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • mandomedic
                      ... Ken replies: Good thought Pat. I too produced festivals for many years and will probably do so in the near future. In all those years, only two bands sent
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jan 2, 2012
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                        , pcasey38@... wrote:
                        >
                        > I'm not a band nor or a festival promoter but I have a question. Do the
                        > bands wanting to know if they are selected send a stamped, self addressed
                        > envelope with their promo pact to get the necessary information about being
                        > accepted or not accepted? Just a thought.

                        Ken replies: Good thought Pat. I too produced festivals for many years and will probably do so in the near future. In all those years, only two bands sent stamped self addressed envelopes wanting a reply. One of those groups asked for their promo back if they were not chose. They weren't chose and I did send their promo back. Like Marv, I believe that if you have a cutoff date for entries and a post date for band lineup, that would help. Just my opinion but it's free. Kenc
                      • Marv Sobolesky
                        There is no need for any of that. Like Greg I have been on both sides of the festivals in promoting and submitting to play at Venues. It s easy to ask When
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jan 2, 2012
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                          There is no need for any of that. Like Greg I have been on both sides of the festivals in promoting and submitting to play at Venues. It's easy to ask " When will bands be selected?" when you find out information as to where to send in your promo. You won't know before that date if your band is selected and you will know shortly after that date your band wasn't selected if they didn't contact you.

                          A very simple system that works. I don't feel like we are "blowing people off" by not sending out notices that they didn't get hired. I ask please that you do not include a self stamped, self addressed envelope or a post card when you send in a submission to play at Winlock Pickersfest. We honestly do have enough to do already with year long events here in Winlock.

                          Speaking of we are now open for band submissions for 2013 Winlock Pickersfest. All submissions need to be in before the end of this year (Dec 31, 2012) . Bands are picked in January of 2013. If you don't hear from us by Jan 31, 2013 you were not hired.

                          We pick bands six months before the festival so your band still has plenty of time to get other summer gigs. Our festival is the second weekend in July.

                          Marv Sobolesky
                          www.marvsmusic.com

                          >
                          >
                          > From the sounds of many responses here, I get the feeling that many festival promoters are volunteers and are so busy they would still blow you off even if a band included a self-addressed stamped postcard (SASP) in their packet that said "You WERE / WERE NOT (circle one) selected to play at our festival." But you have a good idea, and it's worth a try. A promoter would merely need to circle one or two words, and then mail the postcard. ;-)
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > .
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Mark Steudel
                          Do most submissions come through the mail? How many submissions are digitally sent? Seems like if there was a centralized tool for festivals that could receive
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jan 2, 2012
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                            Do most submissions come through the mail? How many submissions are
                            digitally sent? Seems like if there was a centralized tool for festivals
                            that could receive digital submissions it'd be really easy to provide
                            feedback to bands and help the festival organizers sort through all the
                            submissions.

                            On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:

                            > **
                            >
                            >
                            > There is no need for any of that. Like Greg I have been on both sides of
                            > the festivals in promoting and submitting to play at Venues. It's easy to
                            > ask " When will bands be selected?" when you find out information as to
                            > where to send in your promo. You won't know before that date if your band
                            > is selected and you will know shortly after that date your band wasn't
                            > selected if they didn't contact you.
                            >
                            > A very simple system that works. I don't feel like we are "blowing people
                            > off" by not sending out notices that they didn't get hired. I ask please
                            > that you do not include a self stamped, self addressed envelope or a post
                            > card when you send in a submission to play at Winlock Pickersfest. We
                            > honestly do have enough to do already with year long events here in Winlock.
                            >
                            > Speaking of we are now open for band submissions for 2013 Winlock
                            > Pickersfest. All submissions need to be in before the end of this year (Dec
                            > 31, 2012) . Bands are picked in January of 2013. If you don't hear from us
                            > by Jan 31, 2013 you were not hired.
                            >
                            > We pick bands six months before the festival so your band still has plenty
                            > of time to get other summer gigs. Our festival is the second weekend in
                            > July.
                            >
                            > Marv Sobolesky
                            > www.marvsmusic.com
                            >
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > From the sounds of many responses here, I get the feeling that many
                            > festival promoters are volunteers and are so busy they would still blow you
                            > off even if a band included a self-addressed stamped postcard (SASP) in
                            > their packet that said "You WERE / WERE NOT (circle one) selected to play
                            > at our festival." But you have a good idea, and it's worth a try. A
                            > promoter would merely need to circle one or two words, and then mail the
                            > postcard. ;-)
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > .
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            -----------------------------------------
                            Mark Steudel
                            P: 425.298.7244
                            F: 206.260.3021
                            msteudel@...

                            . : Work : .
                            http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                            . : Play : .
                            http://www.steudel.org/blog

                            . : LinkedIn : .
                            http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Marv Sobolesky
                            Up until now we required bands to send in CDs for promos. As we are moving away from CDs towards more digital, we no longer expect bands to provide us with
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jan 2, 2012
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                              Up until now we required bands to send in CDs for promos. As we are moving
                              away from CDs towards more digital, we no longer expect bands to provide us
                              with CDs. (There has been much discussion about this on previous threads).
                              This year we are allowing digital submissions in the way of mp3 files or
                              even websites. The drawback is that we might end up with over 300 band
                              submissions because of the ease of submitting.

                              We will see how it goes....

                              Marv Sobolesky
                              www.marvsmusic.com


                              Do most submissions come through the mail? How many submissions are
                              digitally sent? Seems like if there was a centralized tool for festivals
                              that could receive digital submissions it'd be really easy to provide
                              feedback to bands and help the festival organizers sort through all the
                              submissions.

                              On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:

                              > **
                              >
                              >
                              > There is no need for any of that. Like Greg I have been on both sides
                              > of the festivals in promoting and submitting to play at Venues. It's
                              > easy to ask " When will bands be selected?" when you find out
                              > information as to where to send in your promo. You won't know before
                              > that date if your band is selected and you will know shortly after
                              > that date your band wasn't selected if they didn't contact you.
                              >
                              > A very simple system that works. I don't feel like we are "blowing
                              > people off" by not sending out notices that they didn't get hired. I
                              > ask please that you do not include a self stamped, self addressed
                              > envelope or a post card when you send in a submission to play at
                              > Winlock Pickersfest. We honestly do have enough to do already with year
                              long events here in Winlock.
                              >
                              > Speaking of we are now open for band submissions for 2013 Winlock
                              > Pickersfest. All submissions need to be in before the end of this year
                              > (Dec 31, 2012) . Bands are picked in January of 2013. If you don't
                              > hear from us by Jan 31, 2013 you were not hired.
                              >
                              > We pick bands six months before the festival so your band still has
                              > plenty of time to get other summer gigs. Our festival is the second
                              > weekend in July.
                              >
                              > Marv Sobolesky
                              > www.marvsmusic.com
                              >
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > From the sounds of many responses here, I get the feeling that many
                              > festival promoters are volunteers and are so busy they would still
                              > blow you off even if a band included a self-addressed stamped postcard
                              > (SASP) in their packet that said "You WERE / WERE NOT (circle one)
                              > selected to play at our festival." But you have a good idea, and it's
                              > worth a try. A promoter would merely need to circle one or two words,
                              > and then mail the postcard. ;-)
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > .
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >



                              --
                              -----------------------------------------
                              Mark Steudel
                              P: 425.298.7244
                              F: 206.260.3021
                              msteudel@...

                              . : Work : .
                              http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                              . : Play : .
                              http://www.steudel.org/blog

                              . : LinkedIn : .
                              http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                              ------------------------------------

                              Yahoo! Groups Links
                            • Joe
                              ... Good ideas Mark. I wonder if a centralized tool like that exists. Maybe like some sort of ftp site that bands would load their promo into by a certain
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jan 2, 2012
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                                --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, Mark Steudel <msteudel@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Do most submissions come through the mail? How many submissions are
                                > digitally sent? Seems like if there was a centralized tool for festivals
                                > that could receive digital submissions it'd be really easy to provide
                                > feedback to bands and help the festival organizers sort through all the
                                > submissions.


                                Good ideas Mark. I wonder if a centralized tool like that exists. Maybe like some sort of "ftp" site that bands would load their promo into by a certain date?

                                I've also seen some festival promoters be willing to "re-activate" a band's promo submission for reconsideration in a following year (assuming no band personnel changes or updates are needed). That often saves the band the cost of a complete resubmittal every year.
                              • David
                                Most of the correspondance is via email. Saves money.
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jan 2, 2012
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                                  Most of the correspondance is via email. Saves money.

                                  --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, pcasey38@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I'm not a band nor or a festival promoter but I have a question. Do the
                                  > bands wanting to know if they are selected send a stamped, self addressed
                                  > envelope with their promo pact to get the necessary information about being
                                  > accepted or not accepted? Just a thought.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 12/31/2011 10:34:34 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                                  > robtjb@... writes:
                                  >
                                • Mark Steudel
                                  From the festival promoters side, what s the process of choosing bands like? Group voting process, one person just pick? Stair method (throw the cds down some
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jan 3, 2012
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                                    From the festival promoters side, what's the process of choosing bands
                                    like? Group voting process, one person just pick? Stair method (throw the
                                    cds down some stairs and choose based on which stair the cd lands on)?
                                    Would some sort of backend web tool that allowed you to listen, vote,
                                    organize submissions be helpful to organizers?

                                    On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:

                                    > **
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Up until now we required bands to send in CDs for promos. As we are moving
                                    > away from CDs towards more digital, we no longer expect bands to provide us
                                    > with CDs. (There has been much discussion about this on previous threads).
                                    > This year we are allowing digital submissions in the way of mp3 files or
                                    > even websites. The drawback is that we might end up with over 300 band
                                    > submissions because of the ease of submitting.
                                    >
                                    > We will see how it goes....
                                    >
                                    > Marv Sobolesky
                                    > www.marvsmusic.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Do most submissions come through the mail? How many submissions are
                                    > digitally sent? Seems like if there was a centralized tool for festivals
                                    > that could receive digital submissions it'd be really easy to provide
                                    > feedback to bands and help the festival organizers sort through all the
                                    > submissions.
                                    >
                                    > On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...>
                                    > wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > **
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > There is no need for any of that. Like Greg I have been on both sides
                                    > > of the festivals in promoting and submitting to play at Venues. It's
                                    > > easy to ask " When will bands be selected?" when you find out
                                    > > information as to where to send in your promo. You won't know before
                                    > > that date if your band is selected and you will know shortly after
                                    > > that date your band wasn't selected if they didn't contact you.
                                    > >
                                    > > A very simple system that works. I don't feel like we are "blowing
                                    > > people off" by not sending out notices that they didn't get hired. I
                                    > > ask please that you do not include a self stamped, self addressed
                                    > > envelope or a post card when you send in a submission to play at
                                    > > Winlock Pickersfest. We honestly do have enough to do already with year
                                    > long events here in Winlock.
                                    > >
                                    > > Speaking of we are now open for band submissions for 2013 Winlock
                                    > > Pickersfest. All submissions need to be in before the end of this year
                                    > > (Dec 31, 2012) . Bands are picked in January of 2013. If you don't
                                    > > hear from us by Jan 31, 2013 you were not hired.
                                    > >
                                    > > We pick bands six months before the festival so your band still has
                                    > > plenty of time to get other summer gigs. Our festival is the second
                                    > > weekend in July.
                                    > >
                                    > > Marv Sobolesky
                                    > > www.marvsmusic.com
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > From the sounds of many responses here, I get the feeling that many
                                    > > festival promoters are volunteers and are so busy they would still
                                    > > blow you off even if a band included a self-addressed stamped postcard
                                    > > (SASP) in their packet that said "You WERE / WERE NOT (circle one)
                                    > > selected to play at our festival." But you have a good idea, and it's
                                    > > worth a try. A promoter would merely need to circle one or two words,
                                    > > and then mail the postcard. ;-)
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > .
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > -----------------------------------------
                                    > Mark Steudel
                                    > P: 425.298.7244
                                    > F: 206.260.3021
                                    > msteudel@...
                                    >
                                    > . : Work : .
                                    > http://www.mindfulinteractive.com
                                    >
                                    > . : Play : .
                                    > http://www.steudel.org/blog
                                    >
                                    > . : LinkedIn : .
                                    > http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    > ------------------------------------
                                    >
                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >



                                    --
                                    -----------------------------------------
                                    Mark Steudel
                                    P: 425.298.7244
                                    F: 206.260.3021
                                    msteudel@...

                                    . : Work : .
                                    http://www.mindfulinteractive.com

                                    . : Play : .
                                    http://www.steudel.org/blog

                                    . : LinkedIn : .
                                    http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Marv Sobolesky
                                    Our festival director has all of the cd submissions. He numbers them and plays up to three songs off of the CD. Nobody on the committee knows who the bands are
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jan 3, 2012
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                                      Our festival director has all of the cd submissions. He numbers them and plays up to three songs off of the CD. Nobody on the committee knows who the bands are and have a score sheet in front of them with a number system between one and ten in different categories (vocal, harmonies, instrumentation, ect) There are three people on the committee. Alan, our festival director, takes all the score sheets and talks them up and puts the bands in order. The first five with the highest scores are selected. As we contact the bands if they no longer want to play in Winlock we go down the list according to the score sheet totals. We mail out a contract to the bands selected.

                                      That's how we do it at WAMA. I don't know how others do it.

                                      Marv Sobolesky
                                      www.marvsmusic.com


                                      On Jan 3, 2012, at 9:43 AM, Mark Steudel <msteudel@...> wrote:

                                      > From the festival promoters side, what's the process of choosing bands
                                      > like? Group voting process, one person just pick? Stair method (throw the
                                      > cds down some stairs and choose based on which stair the cd lands on)?
                                      > Would some sort of backend web tool that allowed you to listen, vote,
                                      > organize submissions be helpful to organizers?
                                      >
                                      > On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >> **
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Up until now we required bands to send in CDs for promos. As we are moving
                                      >> away from CDs towards more digital, we no longer expect bands to provide us
                                      >> with CDs. (There has been much discussion about this on previous threads).
                                      >> This year we are allowing digital submissions in the way of mp3 files or
                                      >> even websites. The drawback is that we might end up with over 300 band
                                      >> submissions because of the ease of submitting.
                                      >>
                                      >> We will see how it goes....
                                      >>
                                      >> Marv Sobolesky
                                      >> www.marvsmusic.com
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >> Do most submissions come through the mail? How many submissions are
                                      >> digitally sent? Seems like if there was a centralized tool for festivals
                                      >> that could receive digital submissions it'd be really easy to provide
                                      >> feedback to bands and help the festival organizers sort through all the
                                      >> submissions.
                                      >>
                                      >> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 11:19 AM, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...>
                                      >> wrote:
                                      >>
                                      >>> **
                                      >>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> There is no need for any of that. Like Greg I have been on both sides
                                      >>> of the festivals in promoting and submitting to play at Venues. It's
                                      >>> easy to ask " When will bands be selected?" when you find out
                                      >>> information as to where to send in your promo. You won't know before
                                      >>> that date if your band is selected and you will know shortly after
                                      >>> that date your band wasn't selected if they didn't contact you.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> A very simple system that works. I don't feel like we are "blowing
                                      >>> people off" by not sending out notices that they didn't get hired. I
                                      >>> ask please that you do not include a self stamped, self addressed
                                      >>> envelope or a post card when you send in a submission to play at
                                      >>> Winlock Pickersfest. We honestly do have enough to do already with year
                                      >> long events here in Winlock.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Speaking of we are now open for band submissions for 2013 Winlock
                                      >>> Pickersfest. All submissions need to be in before the end of this year
                                      >>> (Dec 31, 2012) . Bands are picked in January of 2013. If you don't
                                      >>> hear from us by Jan 31, 2013 you were not hired.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> We pick bands six months before the festival so your band still has
                                      >>> plenty of time to get other summer gigs. Our festival is the second
                                      >>> weekend in July.
                                      >>>
                                      >>> Marv Sobolesky
                                      >>> www.marvsmusic.com
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> From the sounds of many responses here, I get the feeling that many
                                      >>> festival promoters are volunteers and are so busy they would still
                                      >>> blow you off even if a band included a self-addressed stamped postcard
                                      >>> (SASP) in their packet that said "You WERE / WERE NOT (circle one)
                                      >>> selected to play at our festival." But you have a good idea, and it's
                                      >>> worth a try. A promoter would merely need to circle one or two words,
                                      >>> and then mail the postcard. ;-)
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>> .
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>>
                                      >>
                                      >> --
                                      >> -----------------------------------------
                                      >> Mark Steudel
                                      >> P: 425.298.7244
                                      >> F: 206.260.3021
                                      >> msteudel@...
                                      >>
                                      >> . : Work : .
                                      >> http://www.mindfulinteractive.com
                                      >>
                                      >> . : Play : .
                                      >> http://www.steudel.org/blog
                                      >>
                                      >> . : LinkedIn : .
                                      >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel
                                      >>
                                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >>
                                      >> ------------------------------------
                                      >>
                                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > -----------------------------------------
                                      > Mark Steudel
                                      > P: 425.298.7244
                                      > F: 206.260.3021
                                      > msteudel@...
                                      >
                                      > . : Work : .
                                      > http://www.mindfulinteractive.com
                                      >
                                      > . : Play : .
                                      > http://www.steudel.org/blog
                                      >
                                      > . : LinkedIn : .
                                      > http://www.linkedin.com/in/steudel
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • Montana girl
                                      ... We have a group of folks (volunteers) that includes some experts (radio show hosts) in the kind of music we feature ( Americana , bluegrass, folk, etc.),
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Jan 4, 2012
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                                        Mark Steudel <msteudel@...> asked:
                                        >
                                        > From the festival promoters side, what's the process of choosing bands
                                        > like?

                                        We have a group of folks (volunteers) that includes some "experts" (radio show hosts) in the kind of music we feature ("Americana", bluegrass, folk, etc.), as well as some "average folks" as well as our Board. We put up a website with photos of each group, where they're from and links to their digital media (websites, MP3s, etc.). We used to keep a "score sheet" of different categories (instrumentals, vocals, appearance, etc.), but now we just ask folks to "rank order" the applicants. We do ask the selection committee to put "entertainment value" at the top of their list of selection criteria, rather than just purely "sound". We also take into consideration the results of an online survey that is kept on our website year-round (which, at the push of a button, yields a bar graph of what artists people especially liked....and didn't like).

                                        But, in the end, it's all about money. Once we determine what our budget will be, we can only offer so much money per band. For the bands that are coming from a distance, this is hardly ever worth their while, so they frequently turn us down. The local bands usually take up the majority of slots, as they are willing and able to work for what we can offer.

                                        I recently had a good conversation with a "big name" (whom I shall not reveal) about this dilemma of low pay for bluegrass musicians on the festival circuit. He blamed it on the lack of corporate sponsorship and on the cheapness of the consumers of the music. He said it's been this way for 30 years---the prices for bluegrass festival tickets has remained relatively the same, and waaay lower than other kinds of music festivals---blues, jazz, "world" music, etc. The "bluegrass crowd" simply won't pay any more, he believes. And the corporate world doesn't view them as an audience worth "wooing" through sponsorship and investment. This whole dynamic has got to change if bluegrass musicians ever hope to see a financial "ladder" to climb.....sigh....
                                      • P. Liley
                                        Part of the problem of Bluegrass fans not willing to pay sky-high prices to hear their favorite music is that many of the crowd or audience can, and do,
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Jan 4, 2012
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                                          Part of the "problem" of Bluegrass fans not willing to pay sky-high prices to hear their favorite music is that many of the "crowd" or audience can, and do, play very well themselves. Another reason is that Bluegrassers have MANY options almost every weekend -- and they often choose to put their (often limited) $ where it can buy them the most entertainment.
                                          I've heard some VERY good music from the stage ... and I've heard some VERY good music in the campgrounds and jams. Where is the advantage to me to pay $25 to hear a VERY good band when I can save that $ to spend on something else and hear VERY good music for $5 ... or free? And at jams and parking lots there is the added benefit of PLAYING! WITH FRIENDS!!
                                          Compare the situations: Young people paying $80, $120, $200 per ticket to hear a Rock band play live. Or a Bluegrass fan paying $10 to hear a regional (or local) band. Do you think the BG fan would pay $100 + to hear a group on stage when they know they can jam and party with them in a couple hours? Or have jammed with them many times before? Sure, it's fun, but look at the $$$! Do the youth have that same opportunity to jam and party with the FAMOUS bands? Not likely -- unless you are a very good looking person with "looser/loser" morals.
                                          "SUPER BG CONCERTS", like in Bellevue and Portland, do get pretty good support, but they don't/can't happen every week or month. OTOH, big-name rock concerts happen within driving distance of their fans every week! Often their are several appealing choices each week. But they have the large fan base to support them. Not every R&R fan goes to a concert each week, or even each month, yet there are enough to support the acts and keep them touring. It would take MOST BG fans going to big $ concerts at least every month to do the same -- the fan base just isn't large enough.

                                          We do appreciate what the promoters and volunteers do to present us with good music. And we will pay what we (comfortably) can to attend such shows. But to ask us to pay more than what a "product" is worth to us is unreasonable. If you want us to pay more, you will have to make it worth OUR while. Then it will happen. Face it - you have to make the show appealing enough to convince us to part with our money. You can't expect us to pay you simply because you think you deserve it. No matter how much work, effort and money promoters (and the bands) put into a show, if WE don't think it's worth our money it won't turn a profit. Design the show for US and you will probably be successful.

                                          (stepping off my soapbox)

                                          Pat L.

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Montana girl
                                          To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 10:11 AM
                                          Subject: [nwbluegrass] Re: Hey festival directors



                                          Mark Steudel <msteudel@...> asked:
                                          >
                                          > From the festival promoters side, what's the process of choosing bands
                                          > like?

                                          We have a group of folks (volunteers) that includes some "experts" (radio show hosts) in the kind of music we feature ("Americana", bluegrass, folk, etc.), as well as some "average folks" as well as our Board. We put up a website with photos of each group, where they're from and links to their digital media (websites, MP3s, etc.). We used to keep a "score sheet" of different categories (instrumentals, vocals, appearance, etc.), but now we just ask folks to "rank order" the applicants. We do ask the selection committee to put "entertainment value" at the top of their list of selection criteria, rather than just purely "sound". We also take into consideration the results of an online survey that is kept on our website year-round (which, at the push of a button, yields a bar graph of what artists people especially liked....and didn't like).

                                          But, in the end, it's all about money. Once we determine what our budget will be, we can only offer so much money per band. For the bands that are coming from a distance, this is hardly ever worth their while, so they frequently turn us down. The local bands usually take up the majority of slots, as they are willing and able to work for what we can offer.

                                          I recently had a good conversation with a "big name" (whom I shall not reveal) about this dilemma of low pay for bluegrass musicians on the festival circuit. He blamed it on the lack of corporate sponsorship and on the cheapness of the consumers of the music. He said it's been this way for 30 years---the prices for bluegrass festival tickets has remained relatively the same, and waaay lower than other kinds of music festivals---blues, jazz, "world" music, etc. The "bluegrass crowd" simply won't pay any more, he believes. And the corporate world doesn't view them as an audience worth "wooing" through sponsorship and investment. This whole dynamic has got to change if bluegrass musicians ever hope to see a financial "ladder" to climb.....sigh....





                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • pdidmh1
                                          I am going to Rivercity this weekend. If I divide what I paid for my ticket with the number of bands I really want to see it comes to about $7 a band. That
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jan 4, 2012
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                                            I am going to Rivercity this weekend. If I divide what I paid for my ticket
                                            with the number of bands I really want to see it comes to about $7 a band.
                                            That sounds like a good deal to me. I really can't wait to see the Box Cars
                                            and the Steep Canyon Rangers. And the Peter Rowan band with Jody Stecher and
                                            Keith Little. You can never have to much Jody Stecher. As long as I don't
                                            have to listen to gypsy jazz.

                                            Dave



                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Marv Sobolesky
                                            Heh. I am really looking forward to the gypsy jazz. I love every kind of music. It s one of the things that really appeals to me about River City Music
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jan 4, 2012
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                                              Heh. I am really looking forward to the gypsy jazz. I love every kind of music. It's one of the things that really appeals to me about River City Music festival. Such a great mixed bag. Thanks Chris!

                                              Marv Sobolesky
                                              www.marvsmusic.com


                                              On Jan 4, 2012, at 11:02 AM, "pdidmh1" <pdidmh1@...> wrote:

                                              > I am going to Rivercity this weekend. If I divide what I paid for my ticket
                                              > with the number of bands I really want to see it comes to about $7 a band.
                                              > That sounds like a good deal to me. I really can't wait to see the Box Cars
                                              > and the Steep Canyon Rangers. And the Peter Rowan band with Jody Stecher and
                                              > Keith Little. You can never have to much Jody Stecher. As long as I don't
                                              > have to listen to gypsy jazz.
                                              >
                                              > Dave
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > .
                                              >
                                              >


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • sweatysocks2
                                              ***From the festival promoters side, what s the process of choosing bands like?*** I usually just pick up the phone and call the band and ask them if they want
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jan 4, 2012
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                                                ***From the festival promoters side, what's the process of choosing bands like?***

                                                I usually just pick up the phone and call the band and ask them if they want to play.
                                              • john
                                                I am guilty,,, I am one of those guys that has a hard time letting bands know when they are not hired. I have been on both sides, and remember feeling agitated
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jan 4, 2012
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                                                  I am guilty,,, I am one of those guys that has a hard time letting bands know when they are not hired. I have been on both sides, and remember feeling agitated when I had no response. I eventually got the message. One thing that I have a hard time with, and I will admit that it is my issue, is that it is hard to say no. For the most part i deal with agents, and I have relationships with them, if I don't like one of their bands I tell them. They say really?how about this band? and so on. Sometimes I approach them , and sometimes they approach me.

                                                  Also I don't have a cookie cutter approach. Building an event is very much like building with stones. Each stone has a different shape, and you need to find another stone that fits with it. So when I am building an event, it can be very tedious, waiting for an act to accept your offer can take a long time, so imposing deadlines for me is pointless, because I have to get one thing done before I can add the next thing. And sometimes the band is in the sam situation, and they are waiting on one thing to happen before they can make their decision. When you add in the factor of how much the act costs, it affects my time line. For instance I might have an offer in on one act, and until they accept it, the funds i have committed to that offer are frozen. I cant move on something else until I know how much money I have left for the next act or group of acts. Sometimes it falls into place nice and neat, and other times it seems to take forever.

                                                  So when that process has played out , and I have the headliners in place, then it is time to put the regional support together, and fit it all into a schedule that makes sense. some events are easier than others, but every event has challenges. So by the time i finally get all that stuff done I have a real hard time saying sorry but we didn't have room for you. To be honest one of the reasons I don't like it is because of some of the reactions I have gotten over the years.

                                                  So my best advice to anyone who has a band that wants to play an festival, is get an agent. They make great insulators,and they work hard to get you good paying gigs.If they are any good they will let you know as soon as you get a gig, and they will bug the promoter till he says yes or no. It is much easier to deal with someone who is not emotionally attached to their art. They can be objective, and professional, and you can concentrate on getting tight, and sounding full,and working on your show.

                                                  Now with all that being said I will say this as a general rule if a talent buyer is interested in you they will let you know pretty soon.
                                                  And if you are wondering if you got the hired and it has been a while call them up, and ask, and by all means don't take it personally if you don't get the job. It just didn't work out that's all.

                                                  I hope this adds some insight to this age old delema. I also hope to see each and everyone of you at The RiverCity Music Festival.

                                                  Thanks
                                                  John Malloy
                                                • Jon
                                                  It s kind of fascinating to me that there are so many folks who feel entitled to get paid for playing music! Bluegrass festivals charge what the market will
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jan 5, 2012
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                                                    It's kind of fascinating to me that there are so many folks who feel entitled to get paid for playing music!

                                                    Bluegrass festivals charge what the market will bear. The folks who attend, do so because they enjoy the community, the jamming, the camping out in beautiful venues, etc. I enjoy hearing the paid groups who are hired to come in and entertain, but I wouldn't be alone in saying that I'd be just as likely to attend a festival with NO paid bands!

                                                    If you can play and get paid for it, more power to you! Just remember that most of us have or have had regular jobs to go to each day and set aside some of our earnings so we can go to festivals with the community of folks who love this acoustic music!

                                                    It's embarrassing to hear of our musicians whining that:
                                                    "The bluegrass crowd simply won't pay any more!"

                                                    Get a real job!
                                                    Those of us who can't or don't have a need to play at the performance level are happy to share a little of our earnings with you to cover some rent of your sound equipment which will have to be repaired or replaced, and some of your fuel to get to the festival, plus we may even buy your CDs.

                                                    AS attendees, we've all paid to drive or pull our RVs several hundred miles at considerable expense to provide an audience for those who like to perform.

                                                    Personally, this past summer, taking time off work, I spent hundreds of dollars on diesel fuel to drag my little travel trailer to festivals from Bend on the south, to Darrington on the north. There was NO festival where I was the least bit influenced to go because of a group performing.

                                                    Just an opinion. . .

                                                    JC
                                                    .




                                                    > >
                                                    > I recently had a good conversation with a "big name" (whom I shall not reveal) about this dilemma of low pay for bluegrass musicians on the festival circuit. He blamed it on the lack of corporate sponsorship and on the cheapness of the consumers of the music. He said it's been this way for 30 years---the prices for bluegrass festival tickets has remained relatively the same, and waaay lower than other kinds of music festivals---blues, jazz, "world" music, etc. The "bluegrass crowd" simply won't pay any more, he believes. And the corporate world doesn't view them as an audience worth "wooing" through sponsorship and investment. This whole dynamic has got to change if bluegrass musicians ever hope to see a financial "ladder" to climb.....sigh....
                                                    >
                                                  • mt2_mandolin
                                                    I know there are several festivals that do it like that. The are only two problems with selecting bands like that.. 1: CDs vs. a bands on stage sound can be
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jan 6, 2012
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                                                      I know there are several festivals that do it like that. The are only two problems with selecting bands like that..
                                                      1: CDs vs. a bands on stage sound can be drastically different. Lot's of magic can happen in the studio (Pitch correction, click tracks, etc, etc)and depending on your resources you can take an average band and make it sound pretty darn appealing. By the same token, some good magic happens on stage that a CD doesn't always translate well.
                                                      2: the entertainment portion of the show doesn't get taken into account. Mc work, jokes, etc. A good example would be Dry Branch Fire Squad. 85% of their appeal is the MC work.

                                                      --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Our festival director has all of the cd submissions. He numbers them and plays up to three songs off of the CD. Nobody on the committee knows who the bands are and have a score sheet in front of them with a number system between one and ten in different categories (vocal, harmonies, instrumentation, ect) There are three people on the committee. Alan, our festival director, takes all the score sheets and talks them up and puts the bands in order. The first five with the highest scores are selected. As we contact the bands if they no longer want to play in Winlock we go down the list according to the score sheet totals. We mail out a contract to the bands selected.
                                                      >
                                                      > That's how we do it at WAMA. I don't know how others do it.
                                                      >
                                                      > Marv Sobolesky
                                                      > www.marvsmusic.com
                                                      >
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