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Re: [nwbluegrass] Chiming in (long -- how I do go on!) and on and on and...

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  • Bill Martin
    ... From: Claire ... Claire, you need to throw more music parties. I think Pandolfi was writing about the music business, how bands
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 29, 2011
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Claire" <clairell2002@...>
      >
      > I'm grieving for the days when we would go to a jam, and if you didn't know
      > all the songs, at least you could anticipate the song structure. You knew
      > that there would be three people singing in harmony stacked a certain way,
      > and that you could be certain enough of the words and the chords that
      > everyone could get into a certain groove.

      Claire, you need to throw more music parties.

      I think Pandolfi was writing about the music business, how bands have to adapt
      to the available market if they are going to make a living playing bluegrass.
      The reality is that they can't make a living playing bluegrass, so they change
      their music to the point that it no longer resembles the bluegrass that hooked
      me hard fifty years ago. They keep on calling it bluegrass and that causes
      confusion. I'm not saying that altbluegrass is bad. A lot of the misnamed
      "alternative" bands at RiverCity are really good. But why call it bluegrass?
      Is Handel's Water Music bluegrass?

      Now, John, I don't think you're argument applies, that Monroe was cutting edge
      in his day. Whether that was so or not is irrelevant to us seventy years after
      the fact. Doesn't matter if Monroe later moved on to another sound, or that
      the genre continues to evolve. The so-called "traditionalists" don't really
      care, at least I don't. More power to those creative musicians and their
      teflongrass. But I like the old sound, the early style. I think that
      particular music at that particular time was the peak, and everything after
      has been the long, slow departure as the music evolves into something else.
      Because I love the early bluegrass sound doesn't mean I'm closed-minded or
      ignorant of other music. In other words, I prefer the cutting edge of the
      1940s a whole lot more than the cutting edge now. But the Bill Monroe of that
      earlier time would probably not understand what I'm getting at. We are
      creatures of our own time, the here and now. What was cutting edge then is
      nostalgia now.

      Now, back to Claire. I agree about the jam sessions. But I also remember the
      jams in the 1970s. They were high energy. We didn't have the big circle, and
      we didn't know about jam etiquette. Everyone crowded around and somehow those
      who felt up to soloing got their chance. The guys who knew the most and were
      the best musicians, they picked the tunes and they gave a nod to others in the
      crowd to take a turn with a solo. That meant that the quality of the music was
      pretty good. Musicians who felt ready to solo could get in on the action. The
      rest of us crowded around the outside and played and sang along with the core
      group and learned a lot about ensemble playing, harmony, chords. It's a far
      better way to do a jam session than the vast wide circle with everyone taking
      a turn at soloing whether they can play or not. And when everyone gets their
      turn to pick the tune the music can stray pretty far from bluegrass unless
      everyone present is already a bluegrass musician with some knowledge of the
      music. If the jam is run like a wide open song circle then the new pickers and
      wannabes are going to get a diluted notion of what bluegrass is.

      I can garauntee that the paragraph above is going to be totally miread and
      misinterpreted by a number of folks in this group. They will read whatever
      they want into it regardless of what I have actually written, and I'll be
      accused of being an elitist when, in fact, I'm arguing the exact opposite. You
      just watch.

      Bill
    • Pete Goodall
      Yes, I don t think what Chris was talking about has any real bearing on bluegrass jam sessions. I think those would continue as they always have with or
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 29, 2011
        Yes, I don't think what Chris was talking about has any real bearing on bluegrass jam sessions. I think those would continue as they always have with or without the IBMA. I know what you mean about predictability in the music structure when it comes a a "user-friendly" jam. I hear the term "jam buster" used when a song has more than 3 or 4 chords or odd timing. That's okay. If the jam isn't your cup of tea you can always sit out. I'm not good at harmony singing so I usually don't participate in jams that want (or need) that sort of thing. It's just about what you like to do and what fits in.

        One of terms Chris used in his editorial was "flexible" and I do think that's a good element for a sucessful jam session. Many jams that I see are pretty rigid when it comes to rules about who does what and when. That's okay too, but it really doesn't stimulate much in the way of participation or growth. Some of the funnest and most musically enjoyable jams I have been in were ones where the unexpected happened. People I didn't know did things I didn't expect. As a musician that's a lot of fun because it challenges your ears and mind to adapt. As a human being it's a lot fun because you meet new people.

        Pete





        To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
        From: nkm@...
        Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 03:14:46 -0700
        Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Chiming in (long -- how I do go on!) and on and on and...







        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Claire" <clairell2002@...>
        >
        > I'm grieving for the days when we would go to a jam, and if you didn't know
        > all the songs, at least you could anticipate the song structure. You knew
        > that there would be three people singing in harmony stacked a certain way,
        > and that you could be certain enough of the words and the chords that
        > everyone could get into a certain groove.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Marv Sobolesky
        I remember those jams well. My first experience in a bluegrass jam was in those big jams with leaders picking out tunes and us wannabes standing on the outside
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 29, 2011
          I remember those jams well. My first experience in a bluegrass jam was in those big jams with leaders picking out tunes and us wannabes standing on the outside with our guitars banging rhythm. People were playing crazy loud trying to be heard in the masses. I can't say they were quality jams but they were fun at the time. The leaders of the time were almost to celebrity status. Eventually people got tired of beating on their instruments and you would see the outsiders ( me included) break off into smaller groups and play music with some of the other outsiders. We weren't as good as the core group, but we sure had a lot more fun. And the celebrities became one of us. Things equaled out.

          And that's how we got where we are today. For the better I think. My assumption is that a lot of Bluegrass bands formed from these breakout jams with musicians that had a shared interest in the same style of music. They sure didn't form for the money.

          Heck it's easy to form a band and pick what styles or songs we want to do. You also get to eliminate any sub par musicians from this group. This will ensure we get the " perfect jam" every time.



          Marv Sobolesky
          www.marvsmusic.com

          >
          >
          > .
          >
          > Now, back to Claire. I agree about the jam sessions. But I also remember the
          > jams in the 1970s. They were high energy. We didn't have the big circle, and
          > we didn't know about jam etiquette. Everyone crowded around and somehow those
          > who felt up to soloing got their chance. The guys who knew the most and were
          > the best musicians, they picked the tunes and they gave a nod to others in the
          > crowd to take a turn with a solo. That meant that the quality of the music was
          > pretty good. Musicians who felt ready to solo could get in on the action. The
          > rest of us crowded around the outside and played and sang along with the core
          > group and learned a lot about ensemble playing, harmony, chords. It's a far
          > better way to do a jam session than the vast wide circle with everyone taking
          > a turn at soloing whether they can play or not. And when everyone gets their
          > turn to pick the tune the music can stray pretty far from bluegrass unless
          > everyone present is already a bluegrass musician with some knowledge of the
          > music. If the jam is run like a wide open song circle then the new pickers and
          > wannabes are going to get a diluted notion of what bluegrass is.
          >
          > .
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • flatpicker2
          Speaking of bands forming out of jams, I started going to the Jess Spromberg jam in Bremerton years ago and out of it has formed Rural Delivery, Caravan, (the
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 29, 2011
            Speaking of bands forming out of jams, I started going to the Jess Spromberg jam in Bremerton years ago and out of it has formed Rural Delivery, Caravan, (the early) Runaway Train, Ohop Valley Boys and several others. Jam sessions are a good thing!

            Greg

            --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:
            >
            > And that's how we got where we are today. For the better I think. My assumption is that a lot of Bluegrass bands formed from these breakout jams with musicians that had a shared interest in the same style of music. They sure didn't form for the money.
            >
            > Heck it's easy to form a band and pick what styles or songs we want to do. You also get to eliminate any sub par musicians from this group. This will ensure we get the " perfect jam" every time.
            >
            >
            >
            > Marv Sobolesky
            > www.marvsmusic.com
            >
            > >
            > >
            > > .
            > >
            > > Now, back to Claire. I agree about the jam sessions. But I also remember the
            > > jams in the 1970s. They were high energy. We didn't have the big circle, and
            > > we didn't know about jam etiquette. Everyone crowded around and somehow those
            > > who felt up to soloing got their chance. The guys who knew the most and were
            > > the best musicians, they picked the tunes and they gave a nod to others in the
            > > crowd to take a turn with a solo. That meant that the quality of the music was
            > > pretty good. Musicians who felt ready to solo could get in on the action. The
            > > rest of us crowded around the outside and played and sang along with the core
            > > group and learned a lot about ensemble playing, harmony, chords. It's a far
            > > better way to do a jam session than the vast wide circle with everyone taking
            > > a turn at soloing whether they can play or not. And when everyone gets their
            > > turn to pick the tune the music can stray pretty far from bluegrass unless
            > > everyone present is already a bluegrass musician with some knowledge of the
            > > music. If the jam is run like a wide open song circle then the new pickers and
            > > wannabes are going to get a diluted notion of what bluegrass is.
            > >
            > > .
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Mandoholic@Comcast.net
            I m waiting 3 days, but I do have an opinion on this. Clyde Clevenger Just My Opinion, But It s Right Salem, Oregon Old Circle [Non-text portions of this
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 29, 2011
              I'm waiting 3 days, but I do have an opinion on this.



              Clyde Clevenger
              Just My Opinion, But It's Right
              Salem, Oregon
              Old Circle



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jpf1940
              Heck Clyde, after 3 days we ll forget what we were talking about and have to start the whole darn thing over. JPF
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 29, 2011
                Heck Clyde, after 3 days we'll forget what we were talking about and have to start the whole darn thing over.
                JPF


                --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, Mandoholic@... wrote:
                >
                > I'm waiting 3 days, but I do have an opinion on this.
                >
                >
                >
                > Clyde Clevenger
                > Just My Opinion, But It's Right
                > Salem, Oregon
                > Old Circle
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • P. Liley
                Heck, Clyde, I go along with that 3-day rule, but I do it a little differently. I respond/reply right away and others can wait 3 days to read it if they wish.
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 29, 2011
                  Heck, Clyde, I go along with that 3-day rule, but I do it a little
                  differently. I respond/reply right away and others can wait 3 days to read
                  it if they wish. Why should I deny people the opportunity to read what *I*
                  have to say quickly?



                  Pat L.

                  Oroville, WA



                  From: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of Mandoholic@...
                  Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 8:46 PM
                  To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: Chiming in (long -- how I do go on!) and on
                  and on and...





                  I'm waiting 3 days, but I do have an opinion on this.

                  Clyde Clevenger
                  Just My Opinion, But It's Right
                  Salem, Oregon
                  Old Circle

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                  No virus found in this incoming message.
                  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                  Version: 9.0.894 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3602 - Release Date: 04/29/11
                  10:08:00



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Mandoholic@Comcast.net
                  What? Clyde Clevenger Just My Opinion, But It s Right Salem, Oregon Old Circle ... From: jpf1940 To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 30, 2011
                    What?



                    Clyde Clevenger
                    Just My Opinion, But It's Right
                    Salem, Oregon
                    Old Circle


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "jpf1940" <jpf1940@...>
                    To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 10:32:32 PM
                    Subject: [nwbluegrass] Re: Chiming in (long -- how I do go on!) and on and on and...






                    Heck Clyde, after 3 days we'll forget what we were talking about and have to start the whole darn thing over.
                    JPF

                    --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com , Mandoholic@... wrote:
                    >
                    > I'm waiting 3 days, but I do have an opinion on this.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Clyde Clevenger
                    > Just My Opinion, But It's Right
                    > Salem, Oregon
                    > Old Circle
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >




                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • antiscruggs
                    A comedian I once saw made the observation that a big difference between men and women (mom s and dad s to be specific) had to do with fashion. Throughout
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 30, 2011
                      A comedian I once saw made the observation that a big difference between men and women (mom's and dad's to be specific) had to do with fashion. Throughout their lives, women will change how they dress and try to stay up on all of the latest fashion trends. Men on the other hand may change how they dress for a period of time, and then one day, they find a particular style and stick with it for the rest of their lives. For instance, I've worn tee shirt and jeans for the past 30 years and probably will until I die. Music and what we like is much like how men pick their lifelong fashion. Depending on when you were born and who was all the rage at the time that you started listening to the music. To Bill Martin…Bill Monroe and the Stanley Brothers are the "cat's meow"…and any bluegrass groups past that era are not considered bluegrass. And "yes" Bill, you are an elitist. You can't post the things you do and then say that you are not….When I started getting into the music, Hot Rize was the band "de jour". They are still one of my favorite bands. A younger friend of mine can't stand Hot Rize, but he likes many of today's more contemporary groups. I do not agree with Claire that 75 percent of people would include Punch Brothers, Gillian Welch, or the Avett Brothers (I've never heard of the Avett Bros) as bluegrass, as I think the general public has no idea who those people are as much as they don't know who Bill Monroe or Flatt and Scruggs are. They more likely than not may be able to identify Alison Krauss, the Dixie Chicks, or possibly Ralph Stanley. As a matter of fact, I was just at a tavern a couple weeks ago, and Ralph Stanley was on the juke box selection with "Oh Death"…really? Does anybody really like that song? It scares me more that "Oh Death" is considered by the general public as bluegrass than anything by the Punch Bros. or Dixie Chicks.

                      I get really tired of the "what is bluegrass" argument, especially when it comes to traditional vs. non-traditional. Good music is good music. What is good or not good is a matter of taste. Same for the traditional vs. non-traditional. As I get older, I am finding myself appreciating some of the older stuff more and more, but that doesn't mean that I dislike some of the newer music that is being played. Depends on the group, their sound, etc. I don't make judgments because the band lacks a certain instrument, uses more than three chords in their songs, or strays from the 50 or so traditional songs that must be played (i.e. anything by Monroe, Flatt & Scruggs, etc.).

                      I was channel surfing the other day, and looking at the music channels. There is a music channel for "old" country, which was described as music from the 80's. In country, traditional country music may be in jeopardy as there really are no bands, other than a handful of artists (i.e. Dwight Yoakum, Chris Hillman, etc.) that play it. But in bluegrass, traditional music will always be around. We have bands, such as Longview, that continue to play the old standards. Even most of today's contemporary groups include traditional standards on their albums. And then we have bluegrass festivals wherein many of the people jam on traditional songs. I don't think I've yet to hear anyone jam on a Punch Brothers song.

                      With regard to jams. I don't know what festivals some of you have been attending, but I think that good jams are still plentiful. There just seems to be a lot more diversity today in the jamming at festivals. At any given time, you can find a traditional jam, swing jam, etc. Like Claire, I had the experience of attending a festival wherein I got in a traditional jam with Chainsaw and Dennis. Big fun!!! But I've also had fun in other jams where the song selection was a little less traditional. I've also been involved in "traditional" jams that bored me to tears. Perfect jams can be fun, but it takes the right number of people, a certain level of musicianship, etc. It is in fact the "perfect storm" when all of those variables come together at the same time. I've experienced being in awesome jams one time, and then jamming with the same group of people another time, only to find that the magic wasn't quite the same. So there is more than musicianship, song selection, etc. that makes for those "hair raising" times. I would like to note that your chances are greater of enjoying a jam if you know how to play your instrument well and know a little basic theory. Many people just think they can get by with three chords and a capo, which of course is not the case.

                      Yes, I remember the jams from the 1970's as well…and not always as fondly as Bill W. Several of those "guys who knew the most and were the best musicians" had rather large egos, and frankly were a turn off to newbie players like myself. I remember other people in those jams trying to take breaks or suggesting songs, only to be ignored. Those were not jams, they were performances. As Marv pointed out, after awhile, most of us others who were not so knowledgeable would break off and start our own jams. Today, those kinds of jams still exist, but there are other jams that are more open and follow jam etiquette and are great learning experiences for those players who participate in them.

                      So basically, I just don't know what all the fuss is about on any of the standard topics (trad vs. non-trad, what is bluegrass, etc.) Just go out, support your local festivals, and pick.


                      --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I remember those jams well. My first experience in a bluegrass jam was in those big jams with leaders picking out tunes and us wannabes standing on the outside with our guitars banging rhythm. People were playing crazy loud trying to be heard in the masses. I can't say they were quality jams but they were fun at the time. The leaders of the time were almost to celebrity status. Eventually people got tired of beating on their instruments and you would see the outsiders ( me included) break off into smaller groups and play music with some of the other outsiders. We weren't as good as the core group, but we sure had a lot more fun. And the celebrities became one of us. Things equaled out.
                      >
                      > And that's how we got where we are today. For the better I think. My assumption is that a lot of Bluegrass bands formed from these breakout jams with musicians that had a shared interest in the same style of music. They sure didn't form for the money.
                      >
                      > Heck it's easy to form a band and pick what styles or songs we want to do. You also get to eliminate any sub par musicians from this group. This will ensure we get the " perfect jam" every time.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Marv Sobolesky
                      > www.marvsmusic.com
                      >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > .
                      > >
                      > > Now, back to Claire. I agree about the jam sessions. But I also remember the
                      > > jams in the 1970s. They were high energy. We didn't have the big circle, and
                      > > we didn't know about jam etiquette. Everyone crowded around and somehow those
                      > > who felt up to soloing got their chance. The guys who knew the most and were
                      > > the best musicians, they picked the tunes and they gave a nod to others in the
                      > > crowd to take a turn with a solo. That meant that the quality of the music was
                      > > pretty good. Musicians who felt ready to solo could get in on the action. The
                      > > rest of us crowded around the outside and played and sang along with the core
                      > > group and learned a lot about ensemble playing, harmony, chords. It's a far
                      > > better way to do a jam session than the vast wide circle with everyone taking
                      > > a turn at soloing whether they can play or not. And when everyone gets their
                      > > turn to pick the tune the music can stray pretty far from bluegrass unless
                      > > everyone present is already a bluegrass musician with some knowledge of the
                      > > music. If the jam is run like a wide open song circle then the new pickers and
                      > > wannabes are going to get a diluted notion of what bluegrass is.
                      > >
                      > > .
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • Marv Sobolesky
                      This leads into a whole other topic on the importance of learning fiddle tunes, and lots of them. I know of no better way to really learn your instrument. Sure
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 30, 2011
                        This leads into a whole other topic on the importance of learning fiddle tunes, and lots of them. I know of no better way to really learn your instrument. Sure you can study scales if you really like playing them. But most people don't so they won't. Our main focus of our WAMA slow jams is to play fiddle tunes at a slow pace. I used to be one of those three chord guys and got bored out of my wits. I know some folks are down on these "fiddle tune" jams, but it's a great way to learn your fingerboard on all instruments.

                        Large egos was the correct word. I still see it once in awhile but it's a lot more rare. If only these bloated ego people knew they were being laughed at behind their backs, they probably wouldn't act the way they do. It has exactly the opposite effect they are looking for. Instead of being looked up to, they are looked down at. But in their minds they are pretty hot musicians. It's always a turn off. Always.

                        Marv Sobolesky
                        www.marvsmusic.com


                        On Apr 30, 2011, at 8:16 AM, "antiscruggs" <ks_powell@...> wrote:
                        . So there is more than musicianship, song selection, etc. that makes for those "hair raising" times. I would like to note that your chances are greater of enjoying a jam if you know how to play your instrument well and know a little basic theory. Many people just think they can get by with three chords and a capo, which of course is not the case.
                        >
                        > Yes, I remember the jams from the 1970's as well…and not always as fondly as Bill W. Several of those "guys who knew the most and were the best musicians" had rather large egos, and frankly were a turn off to newbie players like myself. I


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Bill Martin
                        ... From: antiscruggs To: ... You see? Its just like I predicted, isn t it? I write yes and I m denounced
                        Message 11 of 18 , Apr 30, 2011
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "antiscruggs" <ks_powell@...>
                          To: <nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com>

                          > And "yes" Bill, you are an elitist.

                          You see? Its just like I predicted, isn't it? I write "yes" and I'm denounced
                          for writing "no". Such is the burden of all great thinkers.

                          > I get really tired of the "what is bluegrass" argument, especially when it
                          > comes to traditional vs. non-traditional. Good music is good music. What is
                          > good or not good is a matter of taste. Same for the traditional vs.
                          > non-traditional.

                          Ain't this a bluegrass music discussion group? There are conversations in this
                          group that I'm not at all interested in, but I wouldn't dream of butting in
                          and telling those people that I'm tired of their discussion. You use those
                          little arrow keys on your keyboard to scroll past the threads that you get
                          tired of.

                          Bill
                        • Jon
                          Wow! I for one am very interested in hearing Clyde weigh in on this one! On the other hand, I can t say much about this topic, since I m somewhat of a novice
                          Message 12 of 18 , Apr 30, 2011
                            Wow! I for one am very interested in hearing Clyde weigh in on this one!

                            On the other hand, I can't say much about this topic, since I'm somewhat of a novice picker and not very conversant in the bluegrass idiom.

                            I'm very impressed with the level of debate and the very articulate opinions expressed coming from all directions.

                            One of the things that helps sort out ideas is to define terms. What I hear on one side is what is a position often referred to as "Fundamentalism". That term isn't perceived as positive in most circles.

                            I'm fairly new to Bluegrass music and I love it! I was recently at a jam following the Chick Rose Memorial and witnessed what I considered a really good jam headed up by Chuck Holloway, Matt Snook and others including some of "Chick's Kids". It was great! There wasn't room for me to join in, nor was there a need for my playing. I would love it if all "Bluegrass Jams could sound like that!

                            Besides the music that comprises the "songbook" from the slice of history that is perceived as being the "real Bluegrass music", I love the voices of the instruments that produce that sound. Timeless are the guitars, mandolins, fiddles, Dobros (not considered real bluegrass instruments by many bluegrass fundamentalists), and acoustic basses.

                            Sometimes we are reduced to doing what works. As I host a jam in Dundee, it was my hope that it could be a bluegrass jam. However, there are folks who come and want to share in the community of music. I can't tell them they can't play "Roger Miller's "King of the Road", or a Hank Williams Jr. tune. We will, however, play them with a Bluegrass accent!

                            Thanks to the group for the thought provoking conversation.

                            Jon Coooper




                            --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, Mandoholic@... wrote:
                            >
                            > I'm waiting 3 days, but I do have an opinion on this.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Clyde Clevenger
                            > Just My Opinion, But It's Right
                            > Salem, Oregon
                            > Old Circle
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • antiscruggs
                            You said that somebody was gonna call you an elitist. But some time passed and nobody did, so I thought what the heck and thought I d chime in. I could be
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 1, 2011
                              You said that somebody was gonna call you an elitist. But some time passed and nobody did, so I thought "what the heck" and thought I'd chime in. I could be wrong, and would have to review the topics and your posts for the past decade, or however long this board has been up, but I believe the general belief, or at least my understanding, is that you don't really like any bluegrass music other than what was played during the 40's and 50's (i.e. Monroe, Stanley Brothers, etc.)Perhaps "elitist" is misused. There are others who hate the older bands and will not listen to anything that hints of "twang". So, I would have to say that you are a "mondo" traditionalist. But really, "thinker"...maybe "stinker" :)


                              Don't you get tired of the "what's bluegrass and what's not" discussions. I bet the majority of the controversial subjects discussed on this list entails that very topic. Why don't we move on to other topics that need discussion, like "Other than the bass, should women really be allowed to play bluegrass instruments in a band?"

                              --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Martin" <nkm@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > ----- Original Message -----
                              > From: "antiscruggs" <ks_powell@...>
                              > To: <nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com>
                              >
                              > > And "yes" Bill, you are an elitist.
                              >
                              > You see? Its just like I predicted, isn't it? I write "yes" and I'm denounced
                              > for writing "no". Such is the burden of all great thinkers.
                              >
                              > > I get really tired of the "what is bluegrass" argument, especially when it
                              > > comes to traditional vs. non-traditional. Good music is good music. What is
                              > > good or not good is a matter of taste. Same for the traditional vs.
                              > > non-traditional.
                              >
                              > Ain't this a bluegrass music discussion group? There are conversations in this
                              > group that I'm not at all interested in, but I wouldn't dream of butting in
                              > and telling those people that I'm tired of their discussion. You use those
                              > little arrow keys on your keyboard to scroll past the threads that you get
                              > tired of.
                              >
                              > Bill
                              >
                            • Marv Sobolesky
                              On this note I am happy to report that one of my flatpicking students, 14 year old girl Kendra Randt, has been selected out of two people nationwide, to be a
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 1, 2011
                                On this note I am happy to report that one of my flatpicking students, 14 year old girl Kendra Randt, has been selected out of two people nationwide, to be a recipient of a national scholarship to send her to Steve Kaufman Flatpick Guitar Camp this summer. She picked a duet with Dan Crary when he was here a couple of months ago in Winlock. He wrote a great recommendation for her.

                                I know, flatpicking ain't bluegrass, but it's still pretty darn exciting.

                                Marv Sobolesky
                                www.marvsmusic.com

                                > . Why don't we move on to other topics that need discussion, like "Other than the bass, should women really be allowed to play bluegrass instruments in a band?"
                                > Use
                                > .
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Mandoholic@Comcast.net
                                I don t much like the circus, I hate clowns, they scare me, don t like death-defying high-wire acts, don t care for the smell of elephant droppings, cotton
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 1, 2011
                                  I don't much like the circus, I hate clowns, they scare me, don't like death-defying high-wire acts, don't care for the smell of elephant droppings,
                                  cotton candy make me nauseous, Cirque Du Soliel adds make me glad I have a DVR (I know, let's dress as weird as we possibly can, contort
                                  our skinny bodies and throw them into the air, and we can have a show) but I do like run-on-and-on sentences, however, I really hate sideshows,
                                  I know, just part of the circus, but it keeps me away in small numbers because I don't care to be amazed or dazzled for entertainment, I want to be
                                  moved.



                                  Clyde Clevenger
                                  Just My Opinion, But It's Right
                                  Salem, Oregon
                                  Old Circle


                                  -



                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Joe
                                  ... CONGRATS to Kendra .... that is so kewl when young people soak up the music and become proficient so quickly. Was her approach practice, practice,
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 1, 2011
                                    --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > On this note I am happy to report that one of my flatpicking
                                    > students, 14 year old girl Kendra Randt, has been selected out of two > people nationwide, to be a recipient of a national scholarship to
                                    > send her to Steve Kaufman Flatpick Guitar Camp this summer.


                                    CONGRATS to Kendra .... that is so kewl when young people soak up the music and become proficient so quickly. Was her approach "practice, practice, practice" or does she also have a special "gift"?

                                    For others intersted in Steve Kaufman's Flatpick Guitar Camp in Maryville, TN. (June 12-18 and June 19-25), pls see:
                                    http://www.acoustic-kamp.com/

                                    With summer coming, music camps might make a good discussion topic.
                                    Has anyone on this list ever been to a music camp? How was it? There are some really good ones out there, and I wish I had the time. Anyone want to share some music camp experiences and recommendations?

                                    Caught Mark O'Connor on the Woodsongs Old-Time Radio Hour yesterday. Ever since I first met him at Weiser when he was about age 12, he's been an inspiration to many. His Appalachian Waltz Trio includes very impressive young viola and cello players.

                                    On Friday, I read about a 12-yr-old woman (blues guitarist and singer) from Eugene who is releasing her first CD. She said a lot of her motivation was that she had to have a professional product out to be considered for a gig at Portland's Waterfront Blues Fest. Her name is Savanna Coen, and her CD is called "Strength." I love hearing stories about these young musicians.

                                    When I first started playing music (mostly chords on an elec organ), I wish there were guys like Chick Rose around ... or I had half the hi-tech and computer tools that are available today. But a high school music teach I had .... and some "Music Minus One" LPs ... and just playing along with The Beatles, Animals, Doors, Supremes, Temptations, Jimi Hendrix, Wilson Pickett helped me.

                                    Joe
                                  • Loren Postma
                                    & we waited 3 days for this.? From: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mandoholic@Comcast.net Sent: Sunday, May 01,
                                    Message 17 of 18 , May 1, 2011
                                      & we waited 3 days for this.?



                                      From: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of Mandoholic@...
                                      Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2011 11:35 AM
                                      To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] Re: Chiming in (long -- how I do go on!) and on
                                      and on and...

                                      I don't much like the circus, I hate clowns, they scare me, don't like
                                      death-defying high-wire acts, don't care for the smell of elephant
                                      droppings,
                                      cotton candy make me nauseous, Cirque Du Soliel adds make me glad I have a
                                      DVR (I know, let's dress as weird as we possibly can, contort
                                      our skinny bodies and throw them into the air, and we can have a show) but I
                                      do like run-on-and-on sentences, however, I really hate sideshows,
                                      I know, just part of the circus, but it keeps me away in small numbers
                                      because I don't care to be amazed or dazzled for entertainment, I want to be

                                      moved.

                                      Clyde Clevenger
                                      Just My Opinion, But It's Right
                                      Salem, Oregon
                                      Old Circle

                                      -

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Marv Sobolesky
                                      a little of both. I took Kendra on as a guitar student when she was 10. She started playing the guitar when she was 6. She can pick things up extrordnairly
                                      Message 18 of 18 , May 1, 2011
                                        a little of both. I took Kendra on as a guitar student when she was 10. She started playing the guitar when she was 6. She can pick things up extrordnairly quickly and she is eager to learn anything I put before her. Of course being her age there are so many things pulling at your attention (sports, school projects, freinds, ect) she practices as much as she can. She has an extraordinary fluid right hand. I am really thinking this experience of a week long intense study with the greatest flatpick guitarists is really going to push her up several levels. She is a most excellent student.

                                        I go to Steve Kaufman Kamp every year in Tennessee and have since 2001. I did have to miss a couple of years in that time. The experience of spending an entire week with so many of the greatest Pickers in the world is most amazing. The level of instruction and the camaraderie is priceless. I highly recommend it for any serious musician. 24 hour jams for a week. Oh yeah !


                                        Marv Sobolesky
                                        www.marvsmusic.com


                                        On May 1, 2011, at 11:42 AM, "Joe" <rossjoe@...> wrote:

                                        > --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, Marv Sobolesky <marv@...> wrote:
                                        > >
                                        > > On this note I am happy to report that one of my flatpicking
                                        > > students, 14 year old girl Kendra Randt, has been selected out of two > people nationwide, to be a recipient of a national scholarship to
                                        > > send her to Steve Kaufman Flatpick Guitar Camp this summer.
                                        >
                                        > CONGRATS to Kendra .... that is so kewl when young people soak up the music and become proficient so quickly. Was her approach "practice, practice, practice" or does she also have a special "gift"?
                                        >
                                        > For others intersted in Steve Kaufman's Flatpick Guitar Camp in Maryville, TN. (June 12-18 and June 19-25), pls see:
                                        > http://www.acoustic-kamp.com/
                                        >
                                        > With summer coming, music camps might make a good discussion topic.
                                        > Has anyone on this list ever been to a music camp? How was it? There are some really good ones out there, and I wish I had the time. Anyone want to share some music camp experiences and
                                        >
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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