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Re: [nwbluegrass] ASCAP / BMI

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  • Bill Martin
    ... From: Chris ... The radio station uses the music to sell advertising. The business uses that same music to sell a service. If they
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 31, 2006
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Chris" <chance@...>

      > .If the radio station has paid whatever they have to pay . and then the
      > stations is played in a public place .. ie. a bank teller line . then the
      > bank/public place would have to pay too. That doesn't make a whole lot of
      > sense to me.

      The radio station uses the music to sell advertising. The business uses that
      same music to sell a service. If they make money off the music then its only
      fair that the owners of the music get paid for its use. The problem is in
      ASCAP/BMI's 25 lb. meataxe approach.

      Bill
    • dvhargreaves
      ... Bill s reasoning here is exactly the reasoning used in the 1917 Supreme Court ruling which established the basic principle of music copyright. The composer
      Message 2 of 6 , Feb 1, 2006
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        --- In nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Martin" <nkm@b...> wrote:
        >If they make money off the music then its only
        > fair that the owners of the music get paid for its use. Theproblem
        > is in ASCAP/BMI's 25 lb. meataxe approach.

        Bill's reasoning here is exactly the reasoning used in the 1917
        Supreme Court ruling which established the basic principle of music
        copyright. The composer of a piece of music argued that a restaurant
        that hired an orchestra to play his music should have to compensate
        him. The story of music copyright law is told at a really fine
        website here: http://www.edwardsamuels.com/illustratedstory/isc2.htm

        One chapter:
        "Victor Herbert had been appalled to hear "Sweethearts," his hit
        song from the operetta of the same name, being played at the popular
        Shanley's Restaurant in Times Square just up the street from where
        the opera was playing on Broadway. While Herbert got his royalties
        from the theatrical presentation, he was getting not a penny from
        the orchestra playing his music in the restaurant."

        The court ruled:

        "It is true that the music is not the sole object, but neither is
        the food, which probably could be got cheaper elsewhere. . . . If
        music did not pay it would be given up. If it pays it pays out of
        the public's pocket. Whether it pays or not, the purpose of
        employing it is profit and that is enough."
        -Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes,
        Herbert v. Shanley (1917).

        And finally, another sad tale from this website, reaching back to an
        even earlier era:
        "In 1831, Congress finally added music to the types of works
        eligible for federal copyright. But composers still weren't given
        the right to prevent others from performing their works, either for
        profit or otherwise. Throughout the nineteenth century, the
        composer's rights basically covered only the publication of sheet
        music. Many composers of the day were simply unable to cash in on
        the popularity of songs that were sung by practically everyone
        across the country. Stephen Foster, who wrote works "so essentially
        American that they are regarded as folk music," died virtually
        penniless in 1864. " -dh
      • Chris
        I don t see a bank or mom and pop type store, barbershop/hairdresser etc. where the employees are listening to a radio as making money from the music being
        Message 3 of 6 , Feb 1, 2006
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          I don't see a bank or mom and pop type store, barbershop/hairdresser etc.
          where the employees are listening to a radio as making money from the music
          being played. I am not arguing that the owners of the music should not get
          compensated for their creations but seems to me that the revenues derived
          from the radio stations covers that. Why should the people listening also
          pay when it's a place of business. I can understand when the music is being
          broadcast as in a large retailer but playing a radio in the background seem
          way overkill to me.



          -----Original Message-----
          From: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com [mailto:nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com] On
          Behalf Of Bill Martin
          Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2006 2:57 AM
          To: NW Bluegrass
          Subject: Re: [nwbluegrass] ASCAP / BMI



          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Chris" <chance@...>

          > .If the radio station has paid whatever they have to pay . and then the
          > stations is played in a public place .. ie. a bank teller line . then the
          > bank/public place would have to pay too. That doesn't make a whole lot of
          > sense to me.

          The radio station uses the music to sell advertising. The business uses that
          same music to sell a service. If they make money off the music then its only

          fair that the owners of the music get paid for its use. The problem is in
          ASCAP/BMI's 25 lb. meataxe approach.

          Bill




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