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RE: [nwbluegrass] Recording questions

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  • Mark Steudel
    So last night I was messing around, I found that even though he Berhinger was up only in the yellow range, cool edit recording level was showing yellow, I was
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 2, 2005
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      So last night I was messing around, I found that even though he Berhinger
      was up only in the yellow range, cool edit recording level was showing
      yellow, I was still seeing a flat line at the top of my sound wave, it's
      like clipping but not quite, I just turned some of the levels down, but my
      brain is having problems understanding why that is happening.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Mark Gensman [mailto:GZsound@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 11:56 PM
      To: nwbluegrass@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [nwbluegrass] Recording questions


      You're welcome. Sounds like you figured it out. Your KSM 109 is a great
      cardioid condenser mic and should work wll on fiddle. Make sure you don't
      have it padded. The Behringer mixer has a clip light on it so you should be
      able to get the gain set properly. My Behringer mixers (I have four plus a
      Samson and a Soundcraft Spirit) usually need the input gain set between half

      and three quarters up for a condenser.

      And you are correct in matching levels through the signal chain. plus four
      is the normal setting for "semi" pro stuff.

      Cool Edit is a great program..I have the newer version, Adobe Audition.
      Tremendous bang for the buck and great noise reduction capabilities.

      When you record, make sure your levels are as hot as possible without
      turning on the "clip" light on your cool edit meters. If they light...say
      bye bye to the file and start over. My only problem with Cool Edit is the
      lack of individualchannel meters..but hey, we saved several hundred bucks
      so...

      Enjoy.

      Mark Gensman
      Ground Zero Sound
      www.groundzerosound.com

      >From: "Mark Steudel" <mark@...>
      -----SNIP---
      >Thanks a bunch Mark.
      >
      >So my set is as follows:
      >
      >Mic: Sure KSM109 goes into a
      >Mixer: Eurorack MX602A which goes into
      >Computer Sound Card: Delta 1010LT which is recorded by
      >Cool Edit Pro 2.0
      >
      >I just figured out while writing this email that I had the sound card set
      >up
      >wrong, I had the sound card set so that it thought that all the inputs were
      >"consumer" which meant it boosted the incoming sound. I set it to +4dbu and
      >now the levels shown on the mixer are a lot closer to the levels shown on
      >the computer's soundcard mixer. I was having the problem where the levels
      >on
      >the mixer were a lot lower than the levels on the computer.
      >
      >Anyway, thanks for helping me think about it.
      >
      ----SNIP----






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    • Mark Gensman
      Mark, It is actually quite simple. The sound has to travel through a series of controls and converters before it gets into your computer. Each control alters
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 2, 2005
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        Mark,
        It is actually quite simple. The sound has to travel through a series of
        controls and converters before it gets into your computer.

        Each control alters the sound without regard to any other control. In other
        words, your computer does not know you are using a Behringer mixer. Your
        mixer does not know it is sending the signal to your computer, to a graphic
        EQ or to a power amp.. They are each mutually exclusive.

        The most important meter you are using is the record level meters in Cool
        Edit. Forget what any other control says. If you are clipping the level
        while recording, it won't matter what your input gain on your mixer is set
        at.

        You are going from your mixer to your Delta 1010LT which is your A/D
        converter..what does the Delta do to levels? I sure don't know. You are then
        going through a PCI bus on your computer (I presume). What happens to the
        signal when it gets converted in the computer? Do the levels change?
        Maybe..I don't know.

        See what I mean? The fact your mixer is set perfectly means nothing if you
        are recording too hot a signal..you must turn it down.

        You don't want even a "little bit" of square wave. Remember, you can always
        turn each track up within Cool Edit.

        Use the plumbing analogy. You are putting water (sound) in a pipe, adjusting
        the pressure as it enters your house (gain), then you make it hot or cold by
        sending some of it to your water heater (EQ, Pan, effects, etc.) and then
        you send it to a faucet. Each fixture changes the flow somehow. The fact you
        have the input pressure to your house set perfectly doesn't mean you have
        the proper pressure in your shower..for example. That's why each piece of
        equipment in the chain has some sort of level control, including the
        shower..

        Even your Delta must be set properly. You should be using balanced line
        level from your mixer into the sound card. If your Delta is set for mic
        level, you will overdrive the Delta converters regardless of your mixer
        settings. And make sure your Cool Edit program is set to the same bit rate
        and depth as your Delta. You can record at higher bit rates and depths than
        standard 44.1 16 bit CD quality, but you must dither to 44./16 to get the
        files so they will play on a CD.

        I make different "default" multitrack sessions in Cool Edit depending on the
        bit rate/depth I'm using, but I also have to change the settings in my sound
        card control panel.

        I could show you the bald spot where I tore my hair out trying to get my
        ADAT to talk to my all digital sound card and to my recording computer in
        the same language.

        Failure to get those settings correct can effect recording level and timing
        regardless of where you have your mixer set.

        Hope this helps..welcome to the wonderful wacky world of analogue to digital
        recording!

        Mark Gensman
        Ground Zero Sound
        www.groundzerosound.com

        >From: "Mark Steudel" <mark@...>
        ----SNIP----
        >So last night I was messing around, I found that even though he Berhinger
        >was up only in the yellow range, cool edit recording level was showing
        >yellow, I was still seeing a flat line at the top of my sound wave, it's
        >like clipping but not quite, I just turned some of the levels down, but my
        >brain is having problems understanding why that is happening.
        >
        ----SNIP----
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