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Re: Guidelines and stuff

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  • lildevil@gpxspinner.com
    I m cross-posting this to both the local lists because this subject needs to be addressed. I have also seen this problem in the Sacramento area. ... I want to
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 3, 2004
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      I'm cross-posting this to both the local lists because this subject needs to be addressed. I have
      also seen this problem in the Sacramento area.

      The Badge & the Butterfly wrote:

      > I made an observation lately. Several times in the last 2 months,
      > I have found NUTS caches partially buried (placed in a dug hole) by
      > the hider.
      >
      > The Geocaching.com guidelines specifically address how caches can
      > be hidden. [One of the guidelines states] if you have to remove
      > earth or soil with any object to make a hole, your are violating
      > the guidelines, and your cache may be "immediately archived".
      >
      > We N.U.T.S. have lots of great hides...lets not get on the
      > approvers bad sides :) The whole geocaching sport is a learning
      > experience.

      I want to say its not just about getting on the reviewer's bad side. Its about not getting geocaching
      banned!

      The whole NPS ban on geocaching came along because an NPS official misunderstood our sport.
      He read about the very first cache, which no one denies was a 5 gallon bucket buried to its lid.
      From that he assumed all geocaches were buried and instituted the ban on geocaching on NPS
      land. We have been fighting that image ever since. I still see articles in the press from time to time
      that perpetuate this myth. This belief has made it difficult to make inroads with several land
      management agencies.

      We are lucky here. Only two agencies in California have a policy regarding geocaching. One bans
      it, the other requires the hider to get a free permit. Both are in SoCal. The East Coast, particularly
      the New England area, is much different. Over there practically every county and state park
      system has some sort of geocaching permit system. Some are free; others have a nominal cost.
      This is done so the land managers can check on and pre-approve every cache location before
      they are posted on the website. We really don't want that here! *I* don't want the extra work to
      have to check on whether every cache submitted has gotten a permit.

      So please, unless you want to see geocaching banned or regulated from more areas, do not
      disturb any soil to hide a cache. It is important that we police ourselves, otherwise we risk being
      policed by the land managers.

      All of the other guidelines have similarly valid reasoning behind them that may not be evident just
      from reading them. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

      Thank you.
      Lil Devil
      aka Hemlock
    • Donald Liddiard
      Very critical topic for discussion! Under the heading of Stuff ... I have been waking up in a cold sweat lately due to dreams that caching has become
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 3, 2004
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        Very critical topic for discussion!  Under the heading of " Stuff"... I have been waking up in a cold sweat lately due to dreams that caching has become non-existent... that like so many fun things in life... geocaching has been banned, by THEM... most likely to save us from ourselves, as do-gooders are want to do.                                                           We would like to suggest we leave magnetic micros out of the immediate area of post offices and boxes  Also, would suggest we pay special attention to the way we search for caches... to disturb the surroundings as little as possible. We stopped by Bug Diner the other day... the area of the cache (apparently was in a rotting log) it appeared that the log had been pulled apart (as in shredded) in the hunt... or maybe a band of bears went seeking the bugs. We left the area with purple frowny faces on, and did not pursue the hunt, feeling it had been pretty much destroyed. We see a lot or caches where the vegetation is trampled so much that it's quite clear where the cache is.
                                                                                                                                                                   Something else we need to pay attention to... for safety sake, I think we do pretty well with reminders of snakes, black widows and poison oak, but some of you may not be aware of other possible "dangers" near some of our hides. Ed is no doubt more "edified" (OK, I AM sorry!) ;o) about some areas of Chico that might be troublesome. Bobolu's Micro is in an area of homeless camps, but it is also a drug sales area. (Please don't think we are insinuating they necessarily go together), only that it is well to be aware of that fact when entering the neighborhood. Cedar Grove has been a known area for gay prostitutes to "hook up"... again it's just good to be aware of these things ahead so our cachers aren't caught off guard. Oroville and Paradise have there ills too. In no way do we want to put a damper on any of our caches... we just want the surprises to be in the caches, not in an uncomfortable or dangerous encounter.  We certainly aren't suggesting these caches need to be moved... only that we as a group, if we have knowledge of ANY thing that might be of concern in an area near a cache , it should be noted on the cache pages for the sake of all our cachers from near and far.  These are just some personal thoughts, up for debate... or discussion... or to be ignored.  Now, see what you went and did Jim... you should have left us snoozing!  Rock&Crystal aka Don & Jacqi
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: nelson143@...
        Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 7:29 AM
        To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [NUTS] Guidelines and stuff
         
        Well...Jim wanted more postings, so I will try to keep the post count up :)
         
        I made an observation lately. Several times in the last 2 months, I have found NUTS caches partially buried (placed in a dug hole) by the hider.
         
        The Geocaching.com guidelines (found at http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx) specifically address how caches can be hidden. There exists was is called the "pointy-object rule". Basically, if you have to remove earth or soil with any object to make a hole, your are violating the guidelines, and your cache may be "immediately archived" Please see the second bulleted item below.
         
        We N.U.T.S. have lots of great hides...lets not get on the approvers bad sides :) The whole geocaching sport is a learning expierence. I had to archive one of my caches due to 9-11 security  concerns, and have reccommended to cache owners that cache containers be changed for the same reason (ie: a pipe bomb looking container at a county courthouse).
         
        Please don't read this as critism,  but hopefully as reccomendations for the improvement of our sport.
         
        Happy caching!!
        Ed
        The Badge & the Butterfly
         
         
        From geocaching.com:
         
        Off-limit (Physical) Caches

        By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived.

        Caches will be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

        • Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)
        • Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.
        • Caches placed on archaeological or historical sites. In most cases these areas are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans.
        • Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.
        • Caches near or on military installations.
        • Caches near or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings and airports.


        Northstate Unusual Treasure Seekers!


      • Gary Hobgood
        I m glad to we are having this discussion. These are important concepts for all of us to consider when placing and/or searching of caches. I d like to add a
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 4, 2004
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          I'm glad to we are having this discussion.  These are important concepts for all of us to consider when placing and/or searching of caches.  I'd like to add a thought or two.
           
          Caches hidden in landscape vegetation.   We probably have all seen ground cover and other fragile plants just stomped to death or ripped apart by geocachers locked in a frenzy to find that magical Tupperware container.  Of course, there are some plants with more durability than others.  If you have not spent 30 minutes with your face and hands stuck deep in a juniper bush, you have not lived.  This destruction of foliage typically takes place on private property (property open to the public is not the same as public property).  How many people are actually getting permission to place caches around shopping centers, restaurants, and office building?  I suspect it is not many.   A simple rule should apply here.... you can call it the Golden Rule of Cache Placing:  Place caches on property belonging to others as you would have caches placed on your property.
           
          If the urge to place a cache in a large patch of landscape vegetation can't be resisted, consider a concise hint that narrows the search area. 
           
          Talking about caches hidden in bushes.... The thought of crawling in and out the bushes adjacent to a play ground with small children creeps me out.  It is bad enough that we look like we are planting bombs as we do our geocaching thing, but looking like a pervert hiding in the bushes is a line I try not to cross.
           
          We look forward to reading other Guidelines and Stuff.
           
          Gary&Vicky
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          To: nuts
          Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 10:26 PM
          Subject: Re: [NUTS] Guidelines and stuff

          Very critical topic for discussion!  Under the heading of " Stuff"... I have been waking up in a cold sweat lately due to dreams that caching has become non-existent... that like so many fun things in life... geocaching has been banned, by THEM... most likely to save us from ourselves, as do-gooders are want to do.                                                           We would like to suggest we leave magnetic micros out of the immediate area of post offices and boxes  Also, would suggest we pay special attention to the way we search for caches... to disturb the surroundings as little as possible. We stopped by Bug Diner the other day... the area of the cache (apparently was in a rotting log) it appeared that the log had been pulled apart (as in shredded) in the hunt... or maybe a band of bears went seeking the bugs. We left the area with purple frowny faces on, and did not pursue the hunt, feeling it had been pretty much destroyed. We see a lot or caches where the vegetation is trampled so much that it's quite clear where the cache is.
                                                                                                                                                                     Something else we need to pay attention to... for safety sake, I think we do pretty well with reminders of snakes, black widows and poison oak, but some of you may not be aware of other possible "dangers" near some of our hides. Ed is no doubt more "edified" (OK, I AM sorry!) ;o) about some areas of Chico that might be troublesome. Bobolu's Micro is in an area of homeless camps, but it is also a drug sales area. (Please don't think we are insinuating they necessarily go together), only that it is well to be aware of that fact when entering the neighborhood. Cedar Grove has been a known area for gay prostitutes to "hook up"... again it's just good to be aware of these things ahead so our cachers aren't caught off guard. Oroville and Paradise have there ills too. In no way do we want to put a damper on any of our caches... we just want the surprises to be in the caches, not in an uncomfortable or dangerous encounter.  We certainly aren't suggesting these caches need to be moved... only that we as a group, if we have knowledge of ANY thing that might be of concern in an area near a cache , it should be noted on the cache pages for the sake of all our cachers from near and far.  These are just some personal thoughts, up for debate... or discussion... or to be ignored.  Now, see what you went and did Jim... you should have left us snoozing!  Rock&Crystal aka Don & Jacqi
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: nelson143@...
          Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 7:29 AM
          To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [NUTS] Guidelines and stuff
           
          Well...Jim wanted more postings, so I will try to keep the post count up :)
           
          I made an observation lately. Several times in the last 2 months, I have found NUTS caches partially buried (placed in a dug hole) by the hider.
           
          The Geocaching.com guidelines (found at http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx) specifically address how caches can be hidden. There exists was is called the "pointy-object rule". Basically, if you have to remove earth or soil with any object to make a hole, your are violating the guidelines, and your cache may be "immediately archived" Please see the second bulleted item below.
           
          We N.U.T.S. have lots of great hides...lets not get on the approvers bad sides :) The whole geocaching sport is a learning expierence. I had to archive one of my caches due to 9-11 security  concerns, and have reccommended to cache owners that cache containers be changed for the same reason (ie: a pipe bomb looking container at a county courthouse).
           
          Please don't read this as critism,  but hopefully as reccomendations for the improvement of our sport.
           
          Happy caching!!
          Ed
          The Badge & the Butterfly
           
           
          From geocaching.com:
           
          Off-limit (Physical) Caches

          By submitting a cache listing, you assure us that you have adequate permission to hide your cache in the selected location. However, if we see a cache description that mentions ignoring "No Trespassing" signs (or any other obvious issues), your listing may be immediately archived.

          Caches will be quickly archived if we see the following (which is not inclusive):

          • Caches on land maintained by the U.S. National Park Service or U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (National Wildlife Refuges)
          • Caches that are buried. If a shovel, trowel or other “pointy” object is used to dig, whether in order to hide or to find the cache, then it is not appropriate.
          • Caches placed on archaeological or historical sites. In most cases these areas are highly sensitive to the extra traffic that would be caused by vehicles and humans.
          • Caches hidden in close proximity to active railroad tracks. In general we use a distance of 150 ft but your local area’s trespassing laws may be different. All local laws apply.
          • Caches near or on military installations.
          • Caches near or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings and airports.


          Northstate Unusual Treasure Seekers!




          Northstate Unusual Treasure Seekers!


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