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Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

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  • Gary Hobgood
    Well said Jef. Gary Jef Spencer wrote: Just remember that the game experience is determined by you, and you alone. Play the game in the manner that is most
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 24, 2009
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      Well said Jef.

      Gary

      Jef Spencer wrote:
       
      Just remember that the game experience is determined by you, and you alone.  Play the game in the manner that is most enjoyable to you and don't worry about what others are doing.  No one has control over how others behave and frankly, it's not worth the time fretting over it.  Save that time for your version of Geocaching.. ..
       
       
      Profile for SNSpencer
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      If you do not wish to receive any future DIRECT emails from Jef simply reply to this message to let me know.  This does not apply to mailserv lists that you may subscribe to.



      From: blucruzfamily <gsmcelroy@yahoo. com>
      To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
      Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:46:00 AM
      Subject: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

       

      I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
      Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
      Gary (Blucruz)



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    • Robert L Dunbar
      I know of geocachers who don t sign nanocaches only because they don t want to take the time of unwinding, then winding up that little strip of paper. The
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 24, 2009
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        I know of geocachers who don't sign nanocaches only because they don't want to take the time of unwinding, then winding up that little strip of paper.  The laziness is understandable, but when the GREAT GEOCACHING GENDARME goes around checking everybody's log-ins, he may not allow those without signatures. Those people will just have to live with their consciences for having done an incomplete job.  If I have a strip of paper on me and there is no log, I try to temporize one until the owner can correct it. I get grumpy once in awhile, too! Nanook56 (Bob)

        blucruzfamily wrote:
         

        I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
        Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
        Gary (Blucruz)

      • Cinrafter
        Ditto Jef! My thoughts exactly ! Luc Pockets Sent from Cindy s iPhone On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Gary Hobgood wrote: Well said Jef.
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 24, 2009
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          Ditto Jef! My thoughts exactly !  

          Luc Pockets

          Sent from Cindy's iPhone

          On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Gary Hobgood <hobgood@...> wrote:

           

          Well said Jef.

          Gary

          Jef Spencer wrote:

           
          Just remember that the game experience is determined by you, and you alone.  Play the game in the manner that is most enjoyable to you and don't worry about what others are doing.  No one has control over how others behave and frankly, it's not worth the time fretting over it.  Save that time for your version of Geocaching.. ..
           
           
          Profile for SNSpencer
          Want to know what I am up to?  Follow me on Twitter - Click Here
           
          If you do not wish to receive any future DIRECT emails from Jef simply reply to this message to let me know.  This does not apply to mailserv lists that you may subscribe to.



          From: blucruzfamily <gsmcelroy@yahoo. com>
          To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
          Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:46:00 AM
          Subject: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

           

          I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
          Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
          Gary (Blucruz)



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        • jerryw38@comcast.net
            Geocaching is like golf---Only u know how many strokes (caches ) that u took. It is only game and enjoy it.  Don t worry about the phoney cachers, they
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 24, 2009
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              Geocaching is like golf---Only u know how many strokes (caches ) that u took.

             

            It is only game and enjoy it.  Don't worry about the phoney cachers, they will be caught.

            Are they active and attend events???????

             

            jerryw38

             


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Cinrafter" <cinrafter@...>
            To: "nuts " <nuts_@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:57:36 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
            Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

             

            Ditto Jef! My thoughts exactly !  

            Luc Pockets

            Sent from Cindy's iPhone

            On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Gary Hobgood <hobgood@...> wrote:

             

            Well said Jef.

            Gary

            Jef Spencer wrote:

             
            Just remember that the game experience is determined by you, and you alone.  Play the game in the manner that is most enjoyable to you and don't worry about what others are doing.  No one has control over how others behave and frankly, it's not worth the time fretting over it.  Save that time for your version of Geocaching....
             
            Jef Spencer, SNSpencer@...
             
            Profile for SNSpencer
            Want to know what I am up to?  Follow me on Twitter - Click Here
             
            If you do not wish to receive any future DIRECT emails from Jef simply reply to this message to let me know.  This does not apply to mailserv lists that you may subscribe to.



            From: blucruzfamily <gsmcelroy@...>
            To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:46:00 AM
            Subject: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

             

            I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
            Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
            Gary (Blucruz)



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          • thrak
            From one crabby old man to another............. I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it s no big deal but I really dislike cheating even if
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 24, 2009
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              From one crabby old man to another............. I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it's no big deal but I really dislike "cheating" even if folks are only cheating themselves. If you aren't even honest with yourself I don't expect that you will be honest with others either.

              blucruzfamily wrote:
               

              I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
              Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
              Gary (Blucruz)

            • JeoMc5@aol.com
              I like the golf analogy, everyone plays it a little different, waas that a gimme on the putt? Ooops a mulligan, basically in golf you are playing against
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 24, 2009
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                I like the golf analogy, everyone plays it a little different, waas that a gimme on the putt? Ooops a mulligan, basically in golf you are playing against yourself and having fun with friends, hopefully the same with geocaching.
                 
                Jeo


                -----Original Message-----
                From: jerryw38@...
                To: nuts <nuts_@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Mon, Aug 24, 2009 5:09 pm
                Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                 
                  Geocaching is like golf---Only u know how many strokes (caches ) that u took.
                 
                It is only game and enjoy it.  Don't worry about the phoney cachers, they will be caught.
                Are they active and attend events?????? ?
                 
                jerryw38
                 

                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Cinrafter" <cinrafter@yahoo. com>
                To: "nuts " <nuts_@yahoogroups. com>
                Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 4:57:36 PM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
                Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                 
                Ditto Jef! My thoughts exactly !  

                Luc Pockets

                Sent from Cindy's iPhone

                On Aug 24, 2009, at 9:31 AM, Gary Hobgood <hobgood@pacbell. net> wrote:

                 
                Well said Jef.

                Gary

                Jef Spencer wrote:
                 
                Just remember that the game experience is determined by you, and you alone.  Play the game in the manner that is most enjoyable to you and don't worry about what others are doing.  No one has control over how others behave and frankly, it's not worth the time fretting over it.  Save that time for your version of Geocaching.. ..
                 
                 
                Profile for SNSpencer
                Want to know what I am up to?  Follow me on Twitter - Click Here
                 
                If you do not wish to receive any future DIRECT emails from Jef simply reply to this message to let me know.  This does not apply to mailserv lists that you may subscribe to.



                From: blucruzfamily <gsmcelroy@yahoo. com>
                To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:46:00 AM
                Subject: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                 
                I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                Gary (Blucruz)



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              • Bill Hoke
                While I agree with the sign the log group, I will admit that I have not always signed the log. Once I forgot a pen and instead of walking back to the car, I
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 25, 2009
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                  While I agree with the sign the log group, I will admit that I have not always signed the log. Once I forgot a pen and instead of walking back to the car, I pricked my finger and left a fingerprint. And once while doing a series of caches along a trail, one of them had a sodden mess of a log. I had no replacement and past logs stated that the log was soaked. I don't feel like anyone was cheated in these cases.

                  Now I have a file that someone sent me with a bunch of puzzles caches on it. All solved, ready to go. Never opened it and never will. That would be cheating two people. Myself and the hider. 

                  --- On Mon, 8/24/09, thrak <thrak@...> wrote:

                  From: thrak <thrak@...>
                  Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                  To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:57 PM

                   

                  From one crabby old man to another..... ........ I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it's no big deal but I really dislike "cheating" even if folks are only cheating themselves. If you aren't even honest with yourself I don't expect that you will be honest with others either.

                  blucruzfamily wrote:

                   

                  I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                  Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                  Gary (Blucruz)

                • Cliff Meyer
                  How about the cacher than hides caches in his wife s name and then finds them in his? Sure is an easy way to build numbers if you can live with yourself. (and
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 25, 2009
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                    How about the cacher than hides caches in his wife's name and then finds them in his? Sure is an easy way to build numbers if you can live with yourself. (and the whole community who knows what you are doing).
                     
                    If you are with another cacher when they are putting out hides should you ever claim a find on that cache?


                    From: Bill Hoke <bhoke@...>
                    To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:47:38 AM
                    Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                     

                    While I agree with the sign the log group, I will admit that I have not always signed the log. Once I forgot a pen and instead of walking back to the car, I pricked my finger and left a fingerprint. And once while doing a series of caches along a trail, one of them had a sodden mess of a log. I had no replacement and past logs stated that the log was soaked. I don't feel like anyone was cheated in these cases.

                    Now I have a file that someone sent me with a bunch of puzzles caches on it. All solved, ready to go. Never opened it and never will. That would be cheating two people. Myself and the hider. 

                    --- On Mon, 8/24/09, thrak <thrak@pacbell. net> wrote:

                    From: thrak <thrak@pacbell. net>
                    Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                    To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                    Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:57 PM

                     

                    From one crabby old man to another..... ........ I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it's no big deal but I really dislike "cheating" even if folks are only cheating themselves. If you aren't even honest with yourself I don't expect that you will be honest with others either.

                    blucruzfamily wrote:

                     

                    I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                    Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                    Gary (Blucruz)


                  • Mac
                    Yes, at a later date, but not FTF.  ... From: Cliff Meyer Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown? To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com Date:
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 25, 2009
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                      Yes, at a later date, but not FTF. 

                      --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Cliff Meyer <cliffmeyer75@...> wrote:

                      From: Cliff Meyer <cliffmeyer75@...>
                      Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                      To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 5:50 AM

                       
                      How about the cacher than hides caches in his wife's name and then finds them in his? Sure is an easy way to build numbers if you can live with yourself. (and the whole community who knows what you are doing).
                       
                      If you are with another cacher when they are putting out hides should you ever claim a find on that cache?


                      From: Bill Hoke <bhoke@sbcglobal. net>
                      To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:47:38 AM
                      Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                       
                      While I agree with the sign the log group, I will admit that I have not always signed the log. Once I forgot a pen and instead of walking back to the car, I pricked my finger and left a fingerprint. And once while doing a series of caches along a trail, one of them had a sodden mess of a log. I had no replacement and past logs stated that the log was soaked. I don't feel like anyone was cheated in these cases.

                      Now I have a file that someone sent me with a bunch of puzzles caches on it. All solved, ready to go. Never opened it and never will. That would be cheating two people. Myself and the hider. 

                      --- On Mon, 8/24/09, thrak <thrak@pacbell. net> wrote:

                      From: thrak <thrak@pacbell. net>
                      Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                      To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                      Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:57 PM

                       
                      From one crabby old man to another..... ........ I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it's no big deal but I really dislike "cheating" even if folks are only cheating themselves. If you aren't even honest with yourself I don't expect that you will be honest with others either.

                      blucruzfamily wrote:
                       
                      I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                      Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                      Gary (Blucruz)


                    • Darren Courtney
                      How about those that that are doing events where they are supposed to check in at the event? Instead, they are sitting out in the field waiting with their
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 25, 2009
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                        How about those that that are doing events where they are supposed to check in at the event?
                        Instead, they are sitting out in the field waiting with their wireless cards in their laptops for the gpx file post on the web. They then knock out the furthest caches and work their way in. They get some FTF's before anyone from the event that can even get to them in time. Some work hard to honestly get the FTF. Only to get there and find that someone one had already logged it. I then meet the person on the trail who was bragging they got it and how they did it. I did not have much to say to this cacher and just moved on. Ticked me off, but what can we do?
                        I have dubbed stuff like this as "geocheating". I have seen a few other inconsistencies as well out in the field.
                        I try to keep the highest integrity while out on the hunt. I like the phrase "To thine own self be true". And how hard is it to replace a temp log until the cache owner can replace one? As some have said, the cacher(s) doing this are the ones that has to live with the way they hunt. Right or wrong, it is their call. There are people from all walks of life doing this activity anyhow. Can we expect perfection? Then again, I am still kind of new and really do not get too involved in the forums. Though I do learn a lot by reading them. Just my two cents.

                        Happy caching and keep your head up high!  :-)

                        mtntrek


                        To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
                        From: cliffmeyer75@...
                        Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:50:46 -0700
                        Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                         

                        How about the cacher than hides caches in his wife's name and then finds them in his? Sure is an easy way to build numbers if you can live with yourself. (and the whole community who knows what you are doing).
                         
                        If you are with another cacher when they are putting out hides should you ever claim a find on that cache?


                        From: Bill Hoke <bhoke@sbcglobal. net>
                        To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                        Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:47:38 AM
                        Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                         
                        While I agree with the sign the log group, I will admit that I have not always signed the log. Once I forgot a pen and instead of walking back to the car, I pricked my finger and left a fingerprint. And once while doing a series of caches along a trail, one of them had a sodden mess of a log. I had no replacement and past logs stated that the log was soaked. I don't feel like anyone was cheated in these cases.

                        Now I have a file that someone sent me with a bunch of puzzles caches on it. All solved, ready to go. Never opened it and never will. That would be cheating two people. Myself and the hider. 

                        --- On Mon, 8/24/09, thrak <thrak@pacbell. net> wrote:

                        From: thrak <thrak@pacbell. net>
                        Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                        To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                        Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:57 PM

                         

                        From one crabby old man to another..... ........ I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it's no big deal but I really dislike "cheating" even if folks are only cheating themselves. If you aren't even honest with yourself I don't expect that you will be honest with others either.

                        blucruzfamily wrote:

                         
                        I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                        Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                        Gary (Blucruz)






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                      • Escapades
                        OK I think I am missing something.  If you find the cache but the log sheet is missing and you replace the log sheet and sign it is that a find or not?  I
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 25, 2009
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                          OK I think I am missing something.  If you find the cache but the log sheet is missing and you replace the log sheet and sign it is that a find or not?  I would call it a find.  I'm not going back another time to see if the cache owner put in an official log I'm calling it a find.
                          I not racing against anybody anyway in finds.  I just like to see how many caches I have found.
                          Mike

                          --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Darren Courtney <mtntrek@...> wrote:

                          From: Darren Courtney <mtntrek@...>
                          Subject: RE: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                          To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:32 AM

                           
                          How about those that that are doing events where they are supposed to check in at the event?
                          Instead, they are sitting out in the field waiting with their wireless cards in their laptops for the gpx file post on the web. They then knock out the furthest caches and work their way in. They get some FTF's before anyone from the event that can even get to them in time. Some work hard to honestly get the FTF. Only to get there and find that someone one had already logged it. I then meet the person on the trail who was bragging they got it and how they did it. I did not have much to say to this cacher and just moved on. Ticked me off, but what can we do?
                          I have dubbed stuff like this as "geocheating" . I have seen a few other inconsistencies as well out in the field.
                          I try to keep the highest integrity while out on the hunt. I like the phrase "To thine own self be true". And how hard is it to replace a temp log until the cache owner can replace one? As some have said, the cacher(s) doing this are the ones that has to live with the way they hunt. Right or wrong, it is their call. There are people from all walks of life doing this activity anyhow. Can we expect perfection? Then again, I am still kind of new and really do not get too involved in the forums. Though I do learn a lot by reading them. Just my two cents.

                          Happy caching and keep your head up high!  :-)

                          mtntrek


                          To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                          From: cliffmeyer75@ yahoo.com
                          Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:50:46 -0700
                          Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                           

                          How about the cacher than hides caches in his wife's name and then finds them in his? Sure is an easy way to build numbers if you can live with yourself. (and the whole community who knows what you are doing).
                           
                          If you are with another cacher when they are putting out hides should you ever claim a find on that cache?


                          From: Bill Hoke <bhoke@sbcglobal. net>
                          To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                          Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:47:38 AM
                          Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                           
                          While I agree with the sign the log group, I will admit that I have not always signed the log. Once I forgot a pen and instead of walking back to the car, I pricked my finger and left a fingerprint. And once while doing a series of caches along a trail, one of them had a sodden mess of a log. I had no replacement and past logs stated that the log was soaked. I don't feel like anyone was cheated in these cases.

                          Now I have a file that someone sent me with a bunch of puzzles caches on it. All solved, ready to go. Never opened it and never will. That would be cheating two people. Myself and the hider. 

                          --- On Mon, 8/24/09, thrak <thrak@pacbell. net> wrote:

                          From: thrak <thrak@pacbell. net>
                          Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                          To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                          Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:57 PM

                           
                          From one crabby old man to another..... ........ I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it's no big deal but I really dislike "cheating" even if folks are only cheating themselves. If you aren't even honest with yourself I don't expect that you will be honest with others either.

                          blucruzfamily wrote:
                           
                          I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                          Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                          Gary (Blucruz)






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                        • Tim Vigus
                          Lets see... Geocaching is a game. Every Cacher I have met plays the game a little different.  I just returned from Ground Speak Head Quarters last week, where
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 25, 2009
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                            Lets see... Geocaching is a game. Every Cacher I have met plays the game a little different.  I just returned from Ground Speak Head Quarters last week, where the developers were talking to us about the uniquiness of this game to each player. 
                            So play this game to your highest integrity and don't worry about everyone else.
                            So instead of debating something you have no control over, lets go Caching.

                            Tim

                            --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Escapades <escapades4cache@...> wrote:

                            From: Escapades <escapades4cache@...>
                            Subject: RE: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                            To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com
                            Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:02 PM

                             

                            OK I think I am missing something.  If you find the cache but the log sheet is missing and you replace the log sheet and sign it is that a find or not?  I would call it a find.  I'm not going back another time to see if the cache owner put in an official log I'm calling it a find.
                            I not racing against anybody anyway in finds.  I just like to see how many caches I have found.
                            Mike

                            --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Darren Courtney <mtntrek@live. com> wrote:

                            From: Darren Courtney <mtntrek@live. com>
                            Subject: RE: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                            To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:32 AM

                             
                            How about those that that are doing events where they are supposed to check in at the event?
                            Instead, they are sitting out in the field waiting with their wireless cards in their laptops for the gpx file post on the web. They then knock out the furthest caches and work their way in. They get some FTF's before anyone from the event that can even get to them in time. Some work hard to honestly get the FTF. Only to get there and find that someone one had already logged it. I then meet the person on the trail who was bragging they got it and how they did it. I did not have much to say to this cacher and just moved on. Ticked me off, but what can we do?
                            I have dubbed stuff like this as "geocheating" . I have seen a few other inconsistencies as well out in the field.
                            I try to keep the highest integrity while out on the hunt. I like the phrase "To thine own self be true". And how hard is it to replace a temp log until the cache owner can replace one? As some have said, the cacher(s) doing this are the ones that has to live with the way they hunt. Right or wrong, it is their call. There are people from all walks of life doing this activity anyhow. Can we expect perfection? Then again, I am still kind of new and really do not get too involved in the forums. Though I do learn a lot by reading them. Just my two cents.

                            Happy caching and keep your head up high!  :-)

                            mtntrek


                            To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                            From: cliffmeyer75@ yahoo.com
                            Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:50:46 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                             

                            How about the cacher than hides caches in his wife's name and then finds them in his? Sure is an easy way to build numbers if you can live with yourself. (and the whole community who knows what you are doing).
                             
                            If you are with another cacher when they are putting out hides should you ever claim a find on that cache?


                            From: Bill Hoke <bhoke@sbcglobal. net>
                            To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                            Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:47:38 AM
                            Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                             
                            While I agree with the sign the log group, I will admit that I have not always signed the log. Once I forgot a pen and instead of walking back to the car, I pricked my finger and left a fingerprint. And once while doing a series of caches along a trail, one of them had a sodden mess of a log. I had no replacement and past logs stated that the log was soaked. I don't feel like anyone was cheated in these cases.

                            Now I have a file that someone sent me with a bunch of puzzles caches on it. All solved, ready to go. Never opened it and never will. That would be cheating two people. Myself and the hider. 

                            --- On Mon, 8/24/09, thrak <thrak@pacbell. net> wrote:

                            From: thrak <thrak@pacbell. net>
                            Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                            To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                            Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:57 PM

                             
                            From one crabby old man to another..... ........ I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it's no big deal but I really dislike "cheating" even if folks are only cheating themselves. If you aren't even honest with yourself I don't expect that you will be honest with others either.

                            blucruzfamily wrote:
                             
                            I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                            Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                            Gary (Blucruz)






                            Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now.

                          • Tammy Pokorney
                            EXACTLY! Thank you. ... From: Tim Vigus To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: RE: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown? Lets see...
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 25, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              EXACTLY!  Thank you.
                               
                               
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Tim Vigus
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:17 PM
                              Subject: RE: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                               

                              Lets see... Geocaching is a game. Every Cacher I have met plays the game a little different.  I just returned from Ground Speak Head Quarters last week, where the developers were talking to us about the uniquiness of this game to each player. 
                              So play this game to your highest integrity and don't worry about everyone else.
                              So instead of debating something you have no control over, lets go Caching.

                              Tim

                              --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Escapades <escapades4cache@ yahoo.com> wrote:

                              From: Escapades <escapades4cache@ yahoo.com>
                              Subject: RE: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                              To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                              Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 7:02 PM

                               

                              OK I think I am missing something.  If you find the cache but the log sheet is missing and you replace the log sheet and sign it is that a find or not?  I would call it a find.  I'm not going back another time to see if the cache owner put in an official log I'm calling it a find.
                              I not racing against anybody anyway in finds.  I just like to see how many caches I have found.
                              Mike

                              --- On Tue, 8/25/09, Darren Courtney <mtntrek@live. com> wrote:

                              From: Darren Courtney <mtntrek@live. com>
                              Subject: RE: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                              To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                              Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:32 AM

                               
                              How about those that that are doing events where they are supposed to check in at the event?
                              Instead, they are sitting out in the field waiting with their wireless cards in their laptops for the gpx file post on the web. They then knock out the furthest caches and work their way in. They get some FTF's before anyone from the event that can even get to them in time. Some work hard to honestly get the FTF. Only to get there and find that someone one had already logged it. I then meet the person on the trail who was bragging they got it and how they did it. I did not have much to say to this cacher and just moved on. Ticked me off, but what can we do?
                              I have dubbed stuff like this as "geocheating" . I have seen a few other inconsistencies as well out in the field.
                              I try to keep the highest integrity while out on the hunt. I like the phrase "To thine own self be true". And how hard is it to replace a temp log until the cache owner can replace one? As some have said, the cacher(s) doing this are the ones that has to live with the way they hunt. Right or wrong, it is their call. There are people from all walks of life doing this activity anyhow. Can we expect perfection? Then again, I am still kind of new and really do not get too involved in the forums. Though I do learn a lot by reading them. Just my two cents.

                              Happy caching and keep your head up high!  :-)

                              mtntrek


                              To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                              From: cliffmeyer75@ yahoo.com
                              Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 05:50:46 -0700
                              Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                               

                              How about the cacher than hides caches in his wife's name and then finds them in his? Sure is an easy way to build numbers if you can live with yourself. (and the whole community who knows what you are doing).
                               
                              If you are with another cacher when they are putting out hides should you ever claim a find on that cache?


                              From: Bill Hoke <bhoke@sbcglobal. net>
                              To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                              Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:47:38 AM
                              Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                               
                              While I agree with the sign the log group, I will admit that I have not always signed the log. Once I forgot a pen and instead of walking back to the car, I pricked my finger and left a fingerprint. And once while doing a series of caches along a trail, one of them had a sodden mess of a log. I had no replacement and past logs stated that the log was soaked. I don't feel like anyone was cheated in these cases.

                              Now I have a file that someone sent me with a bunch of puzzles caches on it. All solved, ready to go. Never opened it and never will. That would be cheating two people. Myself and the hider. 

                              --- On Mon, 8/24/09, thrak <thrak@pacbell. net> wrote:

                              From: thrak <thrak@pacbell. net>
                              Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?
                              To: nuts_@yahoogroups. com
                              Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 7:57 PM

                               
                              From one crabby old man to another..... ........ I agree with you completely. I realize most will say it's no big deal but I really dislike "cheating" even if folks are only cheating themselves. If you aren't even honest with yourself I don't expect that you will be honest with others either.

                              blucruzfamily wrote:
                               
                              I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                              Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                              Gary (Blucruz)






                              Hotmail® is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it now.

                            • seanlee_1969
                              Hi NUTS! I dunno, I kind of find this topic tangential in the long run. No disrespect to anybody in particular, of course. There are many factors that play
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 25, 2009
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi NUTS!

                                I dunno, I kind of find this topic tangential in the long run. No disrespect to anybody in particular, of course. There are many factors that play into whether or not you log a find physically vs. digitally. For example, I personally hate physically logging nanos...as my Dad pointed out below. But I will still go find them, because to me the specific challenge is in finding the nanocache container, not the log inside (with very few, albeit reasonable exceptions). In fact, inside many nanos I hide I will put a "log it" note inside just so somebody doesn't have to unwind an annoying, falling-apart log that will give away what they are doing to muggles they stand there long enough. I would rather someone find my nano hides and have them put back quickly so that the hides don't get muggled.

                                If we as cache-hiders go the direction of requiring physical logs, and we're willing to check them out and adjust the electronic finds accordingly, that's a different game too. But all acceptable within the rules. If someone asks me in their cache description to physically log the find to receive credit, you can bet your boots I'll do it. But if not, I have the levity to say "hey, I found the cache, I'm logging the find."

                                There's an honor system to finding caches that need maintenance, too, but that's also a judgment call. I personally won't log a find if all that's there is an open/obviously muggled container (not in the intended location, and with no contents, for example). But I wouldn't fault someone for digitally logging a find on one of my caches if they wrote me and told me about the fact that I needed to maintain my cache. I would give them credit for the find...as has happened to me many times when I find caches in need of TLC.

                                Integrity is in the eye of the beholder, but to me the beauty of the geocaching "rules" is that they allow for exceptions, given the right circumstances.

                                Cheers and cache on!

                                Sean (seanlee1969)

                                --- In nuts_@yahoogroups.com, Robert L Dunbar <dwalrus38@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I know of geocachers who don't sign nanocaches only because they don't
                                > want to take the time of unwinding, then winding up that little strip of
                                > paper. The laziness is understandable, but when the GREAT GEOCACHING
                                > GENDARME goes around checking everybody's log-ins, he may not allow
                                > those without signatures. Those people will just have to live with their
                                > consciences for having done an incomplete job. If I have a strip of
                                > paper on me and there is no log, I try to temporize one until the owner
                                > can correct it. I get grumpy once in awhile, too! Nanook56 (Bob)
                                >
                                > blucruzfamily wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find
                                > > is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I
                                > > don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on
                                > > one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log
                                > > sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you
                                > > didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                                > > Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching
                                > > experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the
                                > > sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                                > > Gary (Blucruz)
                                > >
                                > >
                                >
                              • Tammy Pokorney
                                Well said! Thank you! ... From: seanlee_1969 To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:42 PM Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown? Hi NUTS! I
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 26, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Well said!  Thank you!
                                   
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:42 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                                   

                                  Hi NUTS!

                                  I dunno, I kind of find this topic tangential in the long run. No disrespect to anybody in particular, of course. There are many factors that play into whether or not you log a find physically vs. digitally. For example, I personally hate physically logging nanos...as my Dad pointed out below. But I will still go find them, because to me the specific challenge is in finding the nanocache container, not the log inside (with very few, albeit reasonable exceptions). In fact, inside many nanos I hide I will put a "log it" note inside just so somebody doesn't have to unwind an annoying, falling-apart log that will give away what they are doing to muggles they stand there long enough. I would rather someone find my nano hides and have them put back quickly so that the hides don't get muggled.

                                  If we as cache-hiders go the direction of requiring physical logs, and we're willing to check them out and adjust the electronic finds accordingly, that's a different game too. But all acceptable within the rules. If someone asks me in their cache description to physically log the find to receive credit, you can bet your boots I'll do it. But if not, I have the levity to say "hey, I found the cache, I'm logging the find."

                                  There's an honor system to finding caches that need maintenance, too, but that's also a judgment call. I personally won't log a find if all that's there is an open/obviously muggled container (not in the intended location, and with no contents, for example). But I wouldn't fault someone for digitally logging a find on one of my caches if they wrote me and told me about the fact that I needed to maintain my cache. I would give them credit for the find...as has happened to me many times when I find caches in need of TLC.

                                  Integrity is in the eye of the beholder, but to me the beauty of the geocaching "rules" is that they allow for exceptions, given the right circumstances.

                                  Cheers and cache on!

                                  Sean (seanlee1969)

                                  --- In nuts_@yahoogroups. com, Robert L Dunbar <dwalrus38@. ..> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I know of geocachers who don't sign nanocaches only because they don't
                                  > want to take the time of unwinding, then winding up that little strip of
                                  > paper. The laziness is understandable, but when the GREAT GEOCACHING
                                  > GENDARME goes around checking everybody's log-ins, he may not allow
                                  > those without signatures. Those people will just have to live with their
                                  > consciences for having done an incomplete job. If I have a strip of
                                  > paper on me and there is no log, I try to temporize one until the owner
                                  > can correct it. I get grumpy once in awhile, too! Nanook56 (Bob)
                                  >
                                  > blucruzfamily wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find
                                  > > is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I
                                  > > don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on
                                  > > one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log
                                  > > sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you
                                  > > didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                                  > > Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching
                                  > > experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the
                                  > > sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                                  > > Gary (Blucruz)
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >

                                • Cinrafter
                                  My gosh! Enough said, my email full of a subjest that in better put too sleep! To each his own, don t ya think! Sent from Cindy s iPhone On Aug 26, 2009, at
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 26, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    My gosh! Enough said, my email full of a subjest that in better put too sleep! To each his own, don't ya think!

                                    Sent from Cindy's iPhone

                                    On Aug 26, 2009, at 7:31 PM, "Tammy Pokorney" <alanpokorney@...> wrote:

                                     

                                    Well said!  Thank you!
                                     
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:42 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                                     

                                    Hi NUTS!

                                    I dunno, I kind of find this topic tangential in the long run. No disrespect to anybody in particular, of course. There are many factors that play into whether or not you log a find physically vs. digitally. For example, I personally hate physically logging nanos...as my Dad pointed out below. But I will still go find them, because to me the specific challenge is in finding the nanocache container, not the log inside (with very few, albeit reasonable exceptions). In fact, inside many nanos I hide I will put a "log it" note inside just so somebody doesn't have to unwind an annoying, falling-apart log that will give away what they are doing to muggles they stand there long enough. I would rather someone find my nano hides and have them put back quickly so that the hides don't get muggled.

                                    If we as cache-hiders go the direction of requiring physical logs, and we're willing to check them out and adjust the electronic finds accordingly, that's a different game too. But all acceptable within the rules. If someone asks me in their cache description to physically log the find to receive credit, you can bet your boots I'll do it. But if not, I have the levity to say "hey, I found the cache, I'm logging the find."

                                    There's an honor system to finding caches that need maintenance, too, but that's also a judgment call. I personally won't log a find if all that's there is an open/obviously muggled container (not in the intended location, and with no contents, for example). But I wouldn't fault someone for digitally logging a find on one of my caches if they wrote me and told me about the fact that I needed to maintain my cache. I would give them credit for the find...as has happened to me many times when I find caches in need of TLC.

                                    Integrity is in the eye of the beholder, but to me the beauty of the geocaching "rules" is that they allow for exceptions, given the right circumstances.

                                    Cheers and cache on!

                                    Sean (seanlee1969)

                                    --- In nuts_@yahoogroups. com, Robert L Dunbar <dwalrus38@. ..> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I know of geocachers who don't sign nanocaches only because they don't
                                    > want to take the time of unwinding, then winding up that little strip of
                                    > paper. The laziness is understandable, but when the GREAT GEOCACHING
                                    > GENDARME goes around checking everybody's log-ins, he may not allow
                                    > those without signatures. Those people will just have to live with their
                                    > consciences for having done an incomplete job. If I have a strip of
                                    > paper on me and there is no log, I try to temporize one until the owner
                                    > can correct it. I get grumpy once in awhile, too! Nanook56 (Bob)
                                    >
                                    > blucruzfamily wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find
                                    > > is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I
                                    > > don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on
                                    > > one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log
                                    > > sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you
                                    > > didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                                    > > Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching
                                    > > experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the
                                    > > sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                                    > > Gary (Blucruz)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >


                                  • Tammy Pokorney
                                    yup! ... From: Cinrafter To: nuts_@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:42 PM Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown? My gosh! Enough said, my email
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 26, 2009
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      yup!
                                       
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Cinrafter
                                      Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 7:42 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                                       

                                      My gosh! Enough said, my email full of a subjest that in better put too sleep! To each his own, don't ya think!

                                      Sent from Cindy's iPhone

                                      On Aug 26, 2009, at 7:31 PM, "Tammy Pokorney" <alanpokorney@ charter.net> wrote:

                                       

                                      Well said!  Thank you!
                                       
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:42 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [NUTS] Smiley or Frown?

                                       

                                      Hi NUTS!

                                      I dunno, I kind of find this topic tangential in the long run. No disrespect to anybody in particular, of course. There are many factors that play into whether or not you log a find physically vs. digitally. For example, I personally hate physically logging nanos...as my Dad pointed out below. But I will still go find them, because to me the specific challenge is in finding the nanocache container, not the log inside (with very few, albeit reasonable exceptions). In fact, inside many nanos I hide I will put a "log it" note inside just so somebody doesn't have to unwind an annoying, falling-apart log that will give away what they are doing to muggles they stand there long enough. I would rather someone find my nano hides and have them put back quickly so that the hides don't get muggled.

                                      If we as cache-hiders go the direction of requiring physical logs, and we're willing to check them out and adjust the electronic finds accordingly, that's a different game too. But all acceptable within the rules. If someone asks me in their cache description to physically log the find to receive credit, you can bet your boots I'll do it. But if not, I have the levity to say "hey, I found the cache, I'm logging the find."

                                      There's an honor system to finding caches that need maintenance, too, but that's also a judgment call. I personally won't log a find if all that's there is an open/obviously muggled container (not in the intended location, and with no contents, for example). But I wouldn't fault someone for digitally logging a find on one of my caches if they wrote me and told me about the fact that I needed to maintain my cache. I would give them credit for the find...as has happened to me many times when I find caches in need of TLC.

                                      Integrity is in the eye of the beholder, but to me the beauty of the geocaching "rules" is that they allow for exceptions, given the right circumstances.

                                      Cheers and cache on!

                                      Sean (seanlee1969)

                                      --- In nuts_@yahoogroups. com, Robert L Dunbar <dwalrus38@. ..> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I know of geocachers who don't sign nanocaches only because they don't
                                      > want to take the time of unwinding, then winding up that little strip of
                                      > paper. The laziness is understandable, but when the GREAT GEOCACHING
                                      > GENDARME goes around checking everybody's log-ins, he may not allow
                                      > those without signatures. Those people will just have to live with their
                                      > consciences for having done an incomplete job. If I have a strip of
                                      > paper on me and there is no log, I try to temporize one until the owner
                                      > can correct it. I get grumpy once in awhile, too! Nanook56 (Bob)
                                      >
                                      > blucruzfamily wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I just don't understand why some people log a find when all they find
                                      > > is a container and no log. I have always had the mindset that if I
                                      > > don't sign it, I don't log it as a find. I've never deleted a log on
                                      > > one of my caches by someone claiming a find without signing the log
                                      > > sheet, and I have no intention of doing so, but, in my opinion you
                                      > > didn't find the cache if you didn't find and sign the log.
                                      > > Rant almost over....Sorry I've had some very upsetting caching
                                      > > experiences in the last couple months and have all but given up the
                                      > > sport. I guess I'm just getting grumpy about the little things.
                                      > > Gary (Blucruz)
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >


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