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Re: [NTS] The ANSI 26 character

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  • Alan C.
    Hi All, FWIW the 5.6.x versions of Activestate Perl did not get the box character into Ntab like the 5.8.x versions do. Pl 5.8 supports Unicode (if I ve got
    Message 1 of 25 , Dec 20, 2003
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      Hi All,

      FWIW the 5.6.x versions of Activestate Perl did not get the box character into Ntab like the 5.8.x versions do.

      Pl 5.8 supports Unicode (if I've got the name of it correct). Isn't this support there a lot of requests for it in Ntab 5?

      There was a sizeable difference between Pl 5.6 and 5.8 as far as that Unicode support. 5.6 may not have supported it or else very significantly less so.

      The box char I think is considered a control char. Thus it needed to be escaped in my regex substitution.

      A few months back I went looking to see if I could find a command line switch for 5.8 that would turn off the Unicode.

      Turned up nothing though.

      Just in attempt to experiment, see if that stop the box char.

      --
      Alan.
    • Larry Hamilton
      ... NoteTab has the ability to open Unicode files. I asked for this about a year ago because one of the genealogy programs I use, exports to Unicode by
      Message 2 of 25 , Dec 20, 2003
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        Alan C. wrote:
        > Hi All,
        >
        > FWIW the 5.6.x versions of Activestate Perl did not get the box
        > character into Ntab like the 5.8.x versions do.
        >
        > Pl 5.8 supports Unicode (if I've got the name of it correct). Isn't
        > this support there a lot of requests for it in Ntab 5?

        NoteTab has the ability to open Unicode files. I asked for this about a year
        ago because one of the genealogy programs I use, exports to Unicode by
        default. It just appends three characters at the beginning of the file, and
        would crash NoteTab. Notepad in Windows 2k & higher can handle Unicode, not
        sure if it is full support or not.

        Full Unicode support is slated for NoteTab 5.x.

        Larry
      • Sheri
        Hi Alan, Thanks for posting your experience, was wondering if you d tried it. ... doc got emptied was the result. ... here -- but they just empty the doc. ...
        Message 3 of 25 , Dec 21, 2003
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          Hi Alan,

          Thanks for posting your experience, was wondering if you'd tried it.

          --- In ntb-scripts@yahoogroups.com, "Alan C." <acumming@c...> wrote:

          > But I was just to tinker tried yours and for whatever reason the
          doc got emptied was the result.
          >
          > Haven't a clue why they'd run on yours and not mine. Oh, they run
          here -- but they just empty the doc.
          >

          That sounds really strange Alan, unless you had a missing semicolon
          or something. I just cut and pasted from my prior email to a new
          notetab file and ran your
          111
          444
          222

          (incl new line after the 222)
          and the output is shown after the end of this message.

          Is the StdError.err have a clue or is it missing as well? The posted
          script of mine that included use strict and use warnings does give a
          warning in Stderror.err for me, looks like this:

          Argument "" isn't numeric in addition (+) at D:\PROGRA~1\NOTETA~2
          \Scripts\figures3.pl line 31, <> line 4.

          My memory is failing badly too, but there was a reason I used the chr
          (26) instead of escaping the box character. I think it was not just
          because it wouldn't show up on Yahoo or in email. The character as I
          recall, is the same as a Ctrl+Z, which in Dos/Windows has always
          meant "end of file". So if you substituted the actual character
          (even escaped) in your script, it could lead to unexpected results
          if your command interpreter redefines it to mean "end of file" <g>

          Sheri

          Output of script using the data above:

          This way (using while) needs new lines
          (not sure why? could just add \n's)
          111444222--------
          777
          -----------
          This way (using foreach) doesn't need new lines
          111
          444
          222
          --------
          777
          -----------
        • acummingsus
          ... [ . . ] ... by the path it appears you are running it in a way other than what i am. generally i run it (from within a clip library) like the perl script
          Message 4 of 25 , Dec 21, 2003
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            On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:17:09 -0000, Sheri wrote:
            > Hi Alan,
            >
            [ . . ]

            >> Haven't a clue why they'd run on yours and not mine. Oh, they run
            > here -- but they just empty the doc.
            >>
            >
            > That sounds really strange Alan, unless you had a missing semicolon
            > or something. I just cut and pasted from my prior email to a new
            > notetab file and ran your
            > 111
            > 444
            > 222
            >
            > (incl new line after the 222)
            > and the output is shown after the end of this message.
            >
            > Is the StdError.err have a clue or is it missing as well? The posted
            > script of mine that included use strict and use warnings does give a
            > warning in Stderror.err for me, looks like this:
            >
            > Argument "" isn't numeric in addition (+) at D:\PROGRA~1\NOTETA~2
            > \Scripts\figures3.pl line 31, <> line 4.

            by the path it appears you are running it in a way other than what i
            am.

            generally i run it (from within a clip library) like the perl script
            in samplecode library does.

            if ($] > 5.006) {

            that's line 7

            Unrecognized character \xA0 at D:\DOCUME~1\fb11_s\LOCALS~1
            \Temp\efo2.tmp line 7.

            and that's a stderror.err but I don't know if it's for this or a
            different script that i had run. that stderr file self deleted
            somehow and right now i cannot get your script to produce a stderr
            file

            inconsistencies at this time surrounding the stderr file. and i
            didn't delete it using clipcode or by any other means. i thought it
            normally just stayed there on disk until i delete it. but not so,
            not at this time here.

            no semi colons missing

            ;^!RunPerl C:\files\docs\addcol.pl
            ^!RunPerl pl_tst

            either of those 2 ways i ran it did same as i reported via former
            post, strips doc

            using box char i haven't had a problem with misinterpretation as "end
            of doc"

            my substitution using escaped box char been working fine here

            i suspect perhaps it has more to do with it is perl ie the perl
            interpreter is the running app or process that is scanning the doc
            using a regex to do so. and, escaped reverts the item from a control
            character to literal. IOW the escaspe tells perl to look for a
            literal box char, not a box char that is a control character.

            I'm not trying to devalue your achievement, not at all, not in any
            way. I do value your contributions and achievements. Your method
            likely is a more formal and informed approach whereas I just
            mechanically experimented until something worked for me. I'm only
            sharing what occurs to me on the matter (that 1 and 1/2 cent thing)
            as well as what happens here.

            Still a mystery to me why yours acts the way it does here.

            --
            Alan.
          • Sheri
            Hi Alan, The StdError.err file gets deleted when you start running a Perl script. So if you have it loaded in a document buffer, you have to reload it to see
            Message 5 of 25 , Dec 21, 2003
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              Hi Alan,

              The StdError.err file gets deleted when you start running a Perl script. So if you have it loaded in a document buffer, you have to reload it to see if the current run left any messages.

              The fact that it didn't leave the compile messages makes me think that it didn't run the script, didn't even get to the point of compiling it. It is hard to imagine that it has anything to do with Windows 2000, because I just rebooted my old Windows 98 and tried my code under both Perl 5.6.x and Perl 5.8.0 Build 805. Also tried it substituting escaped box character copied and pasted from an output. All ran fine. All gave the same warning message previously posted. When I used the box character I got two such warning messages and one of them said that "^Z" was not numeric within the line range two. Said it just like that "^Z" in quotes and everything.

              In addition, I ran them as you say you usually do, from inside a clip doc. All variations worked there too. I'm using NTP 4.95 and you probably are as well.

              I really doubt that its Windows 2000, but I guess unless someone else has it and can test, we may never know <g>. I doubt it is that particular build of Perl, since my (even earlier) one runs it under Windows 98.

              I have from time to time had clip documents go bad, with too many or not enough new lines or spaces after the clip header or at the bottom of the document. And the only clue was something was wrong was that sometimes clips I knew should work, didn't. Scared me into thinking I might have a virus once! But since it also doesn't work when running from a .Pl file, that's unlikely (unless the notetab clip that launches ^!runperl is in a bum clip doc).

              Tis a mystery. I would never have thought you were knocking my solution so no need to have said that.

              Sheri
            • Alan C.
              ... Hi, Got it running here! Notice next my get_around (for some unknown to me reason, my puter didn t like your line with 5.006 in it). It appears i guess
              Message 6 of 25 , Dec 21, 2003
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                On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:17:30 -0500, Sheri wrote:
                > Hi Alan,
                Hi,

                Got it running here! Notice next my get_around (for some unknown to me reason, my 'puter didn't like your line with 5.006 in it). It appears i guess that's your version check. Runs fine with that bypassed like next.

                my $count = 0;
                my $total = 0;
                my $tst = 'affirm';
                @in = <>;
                #if ($] >�5.006) {
                if ($tst eq 'affirm') {
                $badchar = chr(26);

                i went to trying it in a different text editor, not Notetab. before i disconnected that mentioned line, here's the error i consistently got:

                Unrecognized character \xA0 at c:\files\docs\addcol.pl line 8.

                line 8 being that line above that i spoke of. with the get_around in vogue, no error, runs fine.

                BTW this other editor does not induce the box char into. thus is no need to rid it of something that does not get into in the first place. And the error ouput has greater consistency.

                i tinkered with the while but found nothing as far as the \n's go.

                Perl has so much depth, I dunno if I'll ever learn it. but i'm not a giver upper. tortoise sometimes can win 'specially if the Wabbit gets careless!

                --
                Alan.
              • Sheri
                Hi Alan, Do you have nonprinting characters showing in your NTP? I m thinking maybe something that looks like a space but isn t one got into your script either
                Message 7 of 25 , Dec 22, 2003
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                  Hi Alan,

                  Do you have nonprinting characters showing in your NTP? I'm thinking
                  maybe something that looks like a space but isn't one got into your
                  script either on or near that line?

                  Try this script:

                  print "Current Perl Version is ", $], "\n";
                  if ($] > 5.006) {
                  print "it's greater than 5.006\n";
                  }
                  else {
                  print "it wasn't greater than 5.006";
                  }
                  #end
                  #

                  Remember that the document displayed in notetab when launched can't
                  be an empty doc

                  Sheri
                • acummingsus
                  ... There are no spaces. Ntab matters spaces, Perl doesn t, Perl could care less. The two if lines with 5.006 match. print Current Perl Version is , $],
                  Message 8 of 25 , Dec 22, 2003
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                    --- In ntb-scripts@yahoogroups.com, "Sheri" <silvermoonwoman@c...>
                    wrote:
                    > Hi Alan,

                    There are no spaces. Ntab matters spaces, Perl doesn't, Perl could
                    care less.

                    The two if lines with 5.006 match.

                    print "Current Perl Version is ", $], "\n";
                    if ($] > 5.006) {
                    print "it's greater than 5.006\n";
                    }
                    else {
                    print "it wasn't greater than 5.006";
                    }

                    the above works. the next works until the line with 5.006 gets
                    activated then it runs but strips doc so doc is empty. At this point
                    I'm going to assume it has to do with the context of nearby stuff
                    such as the input operator into array @in or etc. since nearby stuff
                    is the only difference that exists between these two scripts herein.
                    the two use lines on or off doesn't make any difference in the
                    result. And I've now 5.8.2 build 807 or whatever the latest is and
                    that also makes no difference (previously had 5.8.0 something ver.)

                    #!/perl/bin/perl -w
                    #use strict;
                    #use warnings;
                    my (@in, $badchar, $item);
                    my $count = 0;
                    my $total = 0;
                    my $tst = 'affirm';
                    @in = <>;
                    #if ($] > 5.006) {
                    if ($tst eq 'affirm') {
                    $badchar = chr(26);
                    $count = @in;
                    $in[$count - 1] =~ s/($badchar)$//;
                    }

                    print "This way (using while) needs new lines\n";
                    print "(not sure why\? could just add \\n's)\n";

                    while (<@in>) {
                    $item = $_;
                    print $item;
                    $total = $total + $_;
                    }
                    print "--------\n";
                    print $total;
                    print "\n-----------\n";

                    $total = 0;

                    print "This way (using foreach) doesn't need new lines\n";
                    foreach (@in) {
                    $item = $_;
                    print $item;
                    $total = $total + $_;
                    }
                    print "--------\n";
                    print $total;
                    print "\n-----------\n";
                    #end
                  • Sheri
                    Hi Alan, Last try -- I posted a test clb library file with two clips in it that work fine for me. http://tinyurl.com/36lnb If they work, it must be something
                    Message 9 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                      Hi Alan,

                      Last try -- I posted a test clb library file with two clips in it
                      that work fine for me.

                      http://tinyurl.com/36lnb

                      If they work, it must be something about your files. I have no idea
                      what <g>

                      Regards,
                      Sheri
                    • Piotr Bieńkowski
                      W dniu Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:49:28 -0000 ... Hi Sheri, I started this thread :) , so here s my bit: I tested both clips and this is what I get from Perl figures
                      Message 10 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                        W dniu Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:49:28 -0000
                        "Sheri" <silvermoonwoman@...> napisal(a):

                        > Hi Alan,
                        >
                        > Last try -- I posted a test clb library file with two clips in it
                        > that work fine for me.
                        >
                        > http://tinyurl.com/36lnb
                        >
                        > If they work, it must be something about your files. I have no idea
                        > what <g>
                        >
                        > Regards,
                        > Sheri


                        Hi Sheri,

                        I started this thread :) , so here's my bit:

                        I tested both clips and this is what I get from Perl figures 1

                        Current Perl Version is 5.008002
                        it's greater than 5.006

                        This way (using while) needs new lines
                        (not sure why? could just add \n's)
                        102030--------
                        60
                        -----------
                        This way (using foreach) doesn't need new lines
                        10
                        20
                        30
                        --------
                        60
                        -----------


                        And here's what i get from Perl figures 2


                        this was the original script from http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-scripts/message/252

                        10
                        20
                        30
                        --------
                        60

                        Regards,

                        Piotr
                      • Sheri
                        ... wrote: Hi Piotr! Yes, yours works fine Are you also on the clips list? I posted a new clip/script package for Notetab document history that uses Perl.
                        Message 11 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                          --- In ntb-scripts@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Bieñkowski <syntax@n...>
                          wrote:

                          Hi Piotr! Yes, yours works fine <g>

                          Are you also on the clips list? I posted a new clip/script package
                          for Notetab document history that uses Perl. Give it a whirl when
                          you get a chance. In that package I circumvent the box character
                          after the fact in Notetab clips. Such as I have Perl sorting and
                          printing back to Notetab, the box character ends up as the first
                          character in the document.

                          ^!If ^$ChartoDec(^$StrIndex("^$GetText$";1)$)$=26 Next Else Skip_1
                          ^!InsertText ^$StrDeleteLeft("^$GetText$";1)$

                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-clips/message/11396

                          Regards,
                          Sheri
                        • Piotr Bieńkowski
                          W dniu Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:59:45 -0000 ... Yes, I thinnk I m on almost all Notetab-related lists, maybe with the exception of the basic list and next-release
                          Message 12 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                            W dniu Tue, 23 Dec 2003 13:59:45 -0000
                            "Sheri" <silvermoonwoman@...> napisal(a):

                            > Hi Piotr! Yes, yours works fine <g>
                            >
                            > Are you also on the clips list?

                            Yes, I thinnk I'm on almost all Notetab-related lists, maybe with the exception of the basic list and next-release list.

                            Piotr
                          • Alan C.
                            ... Your url doesn t work for me at this time. I ve already ruled out the files. Obviously works on Win XP. But Win 2k with some differences. I think it has
                            Message 13 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                              On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:49:28 -0000, Sheri wrote:
                              > Hi Alan,
                              >
                              > Last try -- I posted a test clb library file with two clips in it
                              > that work fine for me.
                              >
                              http://tinyurl.com/36lnb
                              >
                              > If they work, it must be something about your files. I have no idea
                              > what <g>

                              Your url doesn't work for me at this time.

                              I've already ruled out the files. Obviously works on Win XP. But Win 2k with some differences.

                              I think it has to do with that mscvrt.dll file that Perl uses on Win 32. The dll on this Win 2k SP4 is bound to be different than XP's

                              --
                              Alan.
                            • Sheri
                              ... Try it this way: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-scripts/files/4_Alan.zip ... I am still not convinced. Perl is supposed to be cross platform. We are
                              Message 14 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                                --- In ntb-scripts@yahoogroups.com, "Alan C." <acumming@c...> wrote:
                                > On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:49:28 -0000, Sheri wrote:
                                > Your url doesn't work for me at this time.

                                Try it this way:

                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-scripts/files/4_Alan.zip

                                >
                                > I've already ruled out the files. Obviously works on Win XP. But
                                > Win 2k with some differences.

                                I am still not convinced. Perl is supposed to be cross platform. We
                                are running the same build of Perl under similar platforms.
                                Meanwhile don't forget that it also works on 98.

                                My Win98 MSVCRT.DLL is version 6.1.8924.0
                                In XP it is version is version 7.0.2600.1106

                                The only relevant thing I found searching google for msvcrt.dll and
                                Perl 5.8 was that if you have Windows 95 you have to download it
                                from ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/softlib/mslfiles/msvcrt.exe, otherwise
                                it come with Windows. I noticed that some of my software has private
                                copies of various versions of msvcrt.exe.

                                I also spotted a warning against installing 5.8 over top of 5.6 and
                                some suggestion that you shouldn't have both versions installed. I
                                installed 5.6, renamed its folder, then installed 5.8. I just rename
                                the folders when I want to use one or the other. The live one needs
                                to be in C:\Perl\bin. That worked fine on Windows 98. But having so
                                recently installed, I've really only been using 5.8 so far under XP.
                                I haven't tried to install any ppm packages yet.

                                Sheri
                              • Alan C.
                                Hi Sheri, maybe we ll find out something yet . . . The next zip file has 4_Alan.clb inside the zip file with an added clip.
                                Message 15 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                                  Hi Sheri,

                                  maybe we'll find out something yet . . .

                                  The next zip file has 4_Alan.clb inside the zip file with an added clip.

                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-scripts/files/

                                  4_Sheri.zip Your clb now has 3 clips in it. the first two work, the # 3 does not it strips doc.

                                  It is the # 3 that was working for you but not for me.

                                  The # 3 still does not work for me.

                                  If the # 3 works for you then there is something different between your 'puter and mine because that one does not work here.

                                  I'd read about the installations, thus I had uninstalled 5.8.0 before I installed 5.8.2

                                  also I restored a previous Ghost image with no Perl at all installed. On the sys with no Perl on it, I installed the Perl 5.8.2 and i get the exact same result, # 3 clip does not work here.

                                  --
                                  Alan.

                                  On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 01:19:39 -0000, Sheri wrote:
                                  > --- In ntb-scripts@yahoogroups.com, "Alan C." <acumming@c...> wrote:
                                  >> On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 11:49:28 -0000, Sheri wrote:
                                  >> Your url doesn't work for me at this time.
                                  >
                                  > Try it this way:
                                  >
                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-scripts/files/4_Alan.zip
                                  >
                                  >>
                                  >> I've already ruled out the files.  Obviously works on Win XP.  But
                                  >> Win 2k with some differences.
                                  >
                                  > I am still not convinced. Perl is supposed to be cross platform. We
                                  > are running the same build of Perl under similar platforms.
                                  > Meanwhile don't forget that it also works on 98.
                                  >
                                  > My Win98 MSVCRT.DLL is version 6.1.8924.0
                                  > In XP it is version is version 7.0.2600.1106
                                  >
                                  > The only relevant thing I found searching google for msvcrt.dll and
                                  > Perl 5.8 was that if you have Windows 95 you have to download it
                                  > from ftp://ftp.microsoft.com/softlib/mslfiles/msvcrt.exe, otherwise
                                  > it come with Windows. I noticed that some of my software has private
                                  > copies of various versions of msvcrt.exe.
                                  >
                                  > I also spotted a warning against installing 5.8 over top of 5.6 and
                                  > some suggestion that you shouldn't have both versions installed. I
                                  > installed 5.6, renamed its folder, then installed 5.8. I just rename
                                  > the folders when I want to use one or the other. The live one needs
                                  > to be in C:\Perl\bin. That worked fine on Windows 98. But having so
                                  > recently installed, I've really only been using 5.8 so far under XP.
                                  > I haven't tried to install any ppm packages yet.
                                  >
                                  > Sheri
                                • Sheri
                                  Well, guess what? Nbr 3 doesn t work here either! Haven t studied it yet, no obvious explanation, but if I discover something I ll let you know. Sheri
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                                    Well, guess what?

                                    Nbr 3 doesn't work here either!

                                    Haven't studied it yet, no obvious explanation, but if I discover
                                    something I'll let you know.

                                    Sheri
                                  • Sheri
                                    Got it! Your version has a non-breaking space (character 160) in front of 5.006. I m guessing that your Yahoo option is to display messages as HTML and somehow
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                                      Got it!

                                      Your version has a non-breaking space (character 160) in front of
                                      5.006.

                                      I'm guessing that your Yahoo option is to display messages as HTML
                                      and somehow the conversion did that. I have mine set to plain text.
                                      Either that or your email program did it, depending on where you
                                      copied the script to your clipboard for pasting to NoteTab in the
                                      first place.

                                      Its easy to miss even with NoteTab displaying non-printing
                                      characters. You'll notice now that that particular space doesn't
                                      have a little dot in it. :)

                                      Change it to a real space and it will work.

                                      Sheri
                                    • Alan C.
                                      ... Sure enough. It had a space appearing space but upon closer examination the dot wasn t there with the non-printing turned on. View source on a text file
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Dec 23, 2003
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                                        On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:38:00 -0000, Sheri wrote:
                                        > Got it!
                                        >
                                        > Your version has a non-breaking space (character 160) in front of
                                        > 5.006.

                                        Sure enough. It had a space appearing space but upon closer examination the dot wasn't there with the non-printing turned on.

                                        View source on a text file for ease of turning that one up. (hehe).

                                        That why I began to think it elsewhere, not the file. I went over and over that file.

                                        But you found it.

                                        Solved.

                                        --
                                        Alan.
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