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Re: [NH] Use Of target="_blank"

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  • Axel Berger
    ... Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have their place.
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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      Scott Fordin wrote:
      > There are times, however, when it's appropriate to spawn new windows

      Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with
      no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have
      their place. Just remember how rare these instances are.

      > For example, hover-based pop-ups are not so
      > great on mobile phones, and they're really bad if your users rely on
      > screen reading add-ons.

      And of course for those fed up with noisy disturbing backgrounds all
      browsers offer a setting to turn them off. The result is that for me all
      these hovers have a transparent background and become illegible. Alas
      the number of sensible uses of the hover technique is minuscule compared
      to all the inappropriate backgrounds so I live with it.

      Axel
    • Ray Shapp
      Hi Axel and Scott, I m not sure what you are referring to when you say, hover-based pop-ups . Please look at the NewEgg website . Just
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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        Hi Axel and Scott,

        I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "hover-based pop-ups".
        Please look at the NewEgg website <http://www.newegg.com/>. Just below their
        "Search" window, they have a yellow nav bar containing eleven categories of
        product beginning with, "COMPUTER HARDWARE". When I hover over that button,
        a two-column screen opens containing links for about two dozen
        sub-categories of computer hardware. Is this an example of a "hover-based
        pop-up"?

        Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware on the NewEgg site
        are illegible for you?

        Separate but related question: Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
        spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?

        Ray Shapp


        On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Scott Fordin wrote:
        > > There are times, however, when it's appropriate to spawn new windows
        >
        > Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with
        > no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have
        > their place. Just remember how rare these instances are.
        >
        >
        > > For example, hover-based pop-ups are not so
        > > great on mobile phones, and they're really bad if your users rely on
        > > screen reading add-ons.
        >
        > And of course for those fed up with noisy disturbing backgrounds all
        > browsers offer a setting to turn them off. The result is that for me all
        > these hovers have a transparent background and become illegible. Alas
        > the number of sensible uses of the hover technique is minuscule compared
        > to all the inappropriate backgrounds so I live with it.
        >
        > Axel
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Axel Berger
        ... Yes, exactly. ... I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting this is what I see: http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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          Ray Shapp wrote:
          > Is this an example of a "hover-based pop-up"?

          Yes, exactly.
          > Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware
          > on the NewEgg site are illegible for you?

          I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
          this is what I see:

          http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png

          > Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
          > spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?

          Yes. Mostly it seems to be because many authors just don't know how to
          do it in pure CSS. On the other hand this example conforms to a
          useability rule of adding a slight delay. See:
          http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-dropdown-menus.html
          under the heading "Speed".

          So here script is good, but they ought to implement pure CSS first and
          have the script, when running, turn that off first and replace it by the
          better version. Never exclude visitors without script.

          By the way my sample design employs the CSS solution in the left menu
          and it shows the problems with that. Try moving down to a certain top
          menu entry from the top, you'll fail. I ought to write a script with
          delay for that, but then we all ought to do many things ...

          Axel
        • Axel Berger
          ... My daughter keeps chiding me about that. It s more than thirty years old and I was younger then than she s now. It happens to be the only photograph of
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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            Ray Shapp wrote:
            > BTW, Axel, you appear much younger than I had imagined
            > (assuming that is not a very old photo of you).

            My daughter keeps chiding me about that. It's more than thirty years old
            and I was younger then than she's now. It happens to be the only
            photograph
            of myself I ever liked.
            A more current one is this Buddha
            http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Axel.jpg

            Axel
          • loro
            ... Hover based it may be, but it isn t a popup ( a new window). It s a section of the same page that was previously hidden that is shown when the link is
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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              Ray Shapp wrote:
              >I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "hover-based pop-ups".
              >Please look at the NewEgg website <http://www.newegg.com/>. Just below their
              >"Search" window, they have a yellow nav bar containing eleven categories of
              >product beginning with, "COMPUTER HARDWARE". When I hover over that button,
              >a two-column screen opens containing links for about two dozen
              >sub-categories of computer hardware. Is this an example of a "hover-based
              >pop-up"?

              Hover based it may be, but it isn't a popup ( a new window). It's a
              section of the same page that was previously hidden that is shown
              when the link is hovered.

              Lotta
            • Ray Shapp
              Quoting Axel: Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting this is what I see: http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png That s odd!
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                Quoting Axel:
                Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
                this is what I see:

                http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png

                That's odd! Here is what I see:

                http://www.classiccars.ws/testing/ScreenShot004.jpg

                Notice they use a link title as well as hover pop-up. That's probably
                because some browsers are deliberately set to ignore JavaScript or are
                unable to do so. I am using Firefox v3.6.16 under Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit.


                Quoting Lotta:
                Hover based it may be, but it isn't a popup

                That makes sense. Otherwise my pop-up blocker would prevent me from seeing
                the enhanced menu.

                Ray Shapp



                On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Ray Shapp wrote:
                > > Is this an example of a "hover-based pop-up"?
                >
                > Yes, exactly.
                >
                > > Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware
                > > on the NewEgg site are illegible for you?
                >
                > I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
                > this is what I see:
                >
                > http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png
                >
                >
                > > Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
                > > spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?
                >
                > Yes. Mostly it seems to be because many authors just don't know how to
                > do it in pure CSS. On the other hand this example conforms to a
                > useability rule of adding a slight delay. See:
                > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-dropdown-menus.html
                > under the heading "Speed".
                >
                > So here script is good, but they ought to implement pure CSS first and
                > have the script, when running, turn that off first and replace it by the
                > better version. Never exclude visitors without script.
                >
                > By the way my sample design employs the CSS solution in the left menu
                > and it shows the problems with that. Try moving down to a certain top
                > menu entry from the top, you'll fail. I ought to write a script with
                > delay for that, but then we all ought to do many things ...
                >
                > Axel
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Axel Berger
                ... Not odd at all, self-inflicted. In Firefox the setting is found in Tools-- Options-- Content-- Colors-- Allow pages...-- No The reason is that now all text
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                  Ray Shapp wrote:
                  > That's odd!

                  Not odd at all, self-inflicted. In Firefox the setting is found in
                  Tools-->Options-->Content-->Colors-->Allow pages...-->No

                  The reason is that now all text on all pages is optimally legible
                  whatever bad contrast and noisy background a misguided designer-artist
                  may have chosen. As Jacob Nielsen keeps saying, people do not browse to
                  pages to admire their beauty but to find things and get things done as
                  quickly and as efficiently as possible. The default background of all
                  elements except <BODY> is transparent and if I forbid changing that,
                  that's what I'll get and hovering in front of other content won't work
                  for text.

                  Your mileage may vary, but whenever I turn colours back on for a page
                  like that one I tend to leave it on for a while and I find that very
                  soon the terrible abominations of taste I'm confronted with make me turn
                  it off very soon again. But be that as it may, it is a fully legal
                  setting that ALL browsers offer right there as a menu switch, so just
                  like script on and off, a minimum font size, and varying window size
                  conscientious designers have to be prepared for it and ensure their
                  designs basic useability. An ugly kludge is fine, it is self inflicted
                  by the visitor after all, but useable it has to be.

                  One possibility would be hover an image, one white pixel with width and
                  height in em, and hover the text in front of that. Contrary to script
                  there is no way, not even employing script, to find out what the
                  vistor's settings are so it's not possible to employ the cludge only
                  when needed. With bad luck your image has exactly the visitor's font
                  colour and will make things even worse.
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