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Re: [NH] Use Of target="_blank"!!

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  • Ray Shapp
    Hi Michael and Axel, I will definitely need to use the global replace command in NoteTab (Ctrl+D), however it will be done piecemeal on limited subsections of
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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      Hi Michael and Axel,

      I will definitely need to use the global replace command in NoteTab
      (Ctrl+D), however it will be done piecemeal on limited subsections of the
      site. Currently I have nearly 6,000 files in 238 folders on the astronomy
      club's website. More than 3,000 of the files are JPGs, PDFs, XLS files, and
      DOC files, but that still leaves about 2300 html pages. The index frame
      points to 21 subsections in addition to the Home page. Over the past 12
      years well over a dozen members created and edited various web pages or
      whole sections of the site, and they used a wide variety of formats.

      While eliminating the frames, I want to develop a single CSS style sheet
      that will apply to most HTML pages. I want also a fixed nav bar preferably
      at the top of every page. Most of the current web pages were designed for
      800x600 resolution displays. I want to change that to 1024x768. Of course,
      the site needs to remain usable during the transition, and I am working
      alone on this project. Our hosting plan allows 5GB of storage, and we are
      using only a little over 1GB now. I think it may be best to duplicate the
      entire site using an alternate web address as I convert sections to the new
      format. I'll give out the alternate address to only a few members who might
      have constructive comments about usability of the new design. Axel's clip
      (shown below) will be very useful for making conversions on well-defined
      subsections of the site.

      I don't have any time limit. The only time pressure I feel is
      self-generated.

      Ray Shapp


      On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > Michael Rawley wrote:
      > > I am, of course, refering to the command 'Ctrl-D'.
      > > Try it on half a dozen dummy files first!
      >
      > You're right of course! I have done that quite a few times and I
      > forewent the trial. But you will admit, I think, that editing one file -
      > there will ususally be more than change, even moving something is one
      > deletion plus one entry - is quite different from converting each step
      > into a replace command (find the right and only the right place) or a
      > clip.
      >
      > Anyway, I have a prepared clip for just that, where you only need to add
      > the specific task at hand. N.B: Defeintely try this out on dummy files
      > in a dummy folder first.
      >
      > Beware of long lines
      >
      > ; Adapt this part to the task in hand
      > ^!Set %varFIL%="F:\Webspace\index.php"
      > ^!Set %varPAT%="*.htm;*.php"
      > ; End of invidual adaptation
      >
      > ^!SetWizardLabel "Please define the files to be converted"
      > ;^!SetDebug On
      > ^!Set %varFIL%=^?{(T=O;F="Source
      > Files|*.html;*.htm;*.?html;*.xml;*asp;*.css;*.php;*.php3;*.php4")Sample
      > file=^%varFIL%}; %varSDR%=^?{(T=L)Include Subdirectories?==_Yes|No};
      > %varPAT%=^?{Search Pattern=^%varPAT%}
      > ^!Set %varPTH%=^$GetPath(^%varFIL%)$
      > ^!If "^%varSDR%"="Yes" yessub ELSE nosub
      > :yessub
      > ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileFirst("+^%varPTH%";"^%varPAT%")$
      > ^!Goto loop
      > :nosub
      > ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileFirst("^%varPTH%";"^%varPAT%")$
      > :loop
      > ^!IfTrue ^$IsEmpty(^%varFIL%)$ finished
      > ;^!Continue ^%varFIL%
      > ^!Open "^%varFIL%"
      >
      > ; Adapt this part to the task in hand
      >
      > ^!Replace "http://www.w3.org/Icons/valid-html401" >>
      > "http://berger-odenthal.de/pics/valid-html401.png" WAS
      > ^!Replace "http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/images/vcss" >>
      > "http://berger-odenthal.de/pics/vcss.png" WAS
      >
      > ;^!Replace "//EN"> <" >> "//EN"^P
      > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">^P<" WAS
      >
      > ; End of invidual adaptation
      >
      > ^!Close ALL,SAVE
      > ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileNext$
      > ^!Goto loop
      > :finished
      > ^!CloseFileFind
      >
      >
      > >
      > > Michael Rawley
      > > www.normist.co.uk
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      >
      > >
      > > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
      > > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
      > > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
      > >
      > > ***
      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > --
      > Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 2174/ 7439 07
      > Johann-H�ck-Str. 14 Fax: +49/ 2174/ 7439 68
      > D-51519 Odenthal-Heide eMail: Axel-Berger@...
      > Deutschland (Germany) http://berger-odenthal.de
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Scott Fordin
      FWIW, I think that, in most cases, you don t want to open links in new windows for many of the reasons already mentioned here. For example, I know the style
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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        FWIW, I think that, in most cases, you don't want to open links in new
        windows for many of the reasons already mentioned here. For example, I
        know the style guidelines for all external Sun Microsystems (let's take
        a moment here to shed a tear) Web sites specifically prohibited spawning
        new windows except in relatively rare circumstances.

        There are times, however, when it's appropriate to spawn new windows
        when you want to provide additional information about a topic or product
        without losing the initial context. Examples here include, say, an
        online help system, or individual photos in a gallery, or a page that
        compares a series of products, or a link to a PDF coupon, or a link that
        takes you to another Web site in an entirely different domain.

        All this said, I think it's much, much better to use a specifically
        named target window rather than _blank, so you're at least not rudely
        spawning a gazillion windows, and it also becomes possible to create a
        history trail in the spawned window. In short, I think _blank is evil,
        but specifically named targets can be quite useful.

        Finally, you could also use some sort of hover-based pop-up for certain
        kinds of content, but that can lead to all sorts of browser, platform,
        and accessibility issues. For example, hover-based pop-ups are not so
        great on mobile phones, and they're really bad if your users rely on
        screen reading add-ons.

        Scott

        On 3/27/2011 1:01 AM, loro wrote:
        > Ray wrote:
        > >Can SSI and a modification of the script at
        > >http://fdp.berger-odenthal.de/base/fix-menue.js keep the nav bar in view
        > >when the user scrolls down the page?
        >
        > Includes don't do anything more than glue the content of files
        > together before the page is served, like a server-side Find &
        > Replace, you could say, only it isn't permanent, the physical files
        > aren't changed.
        >
        > I think you are looking for 'position: fixed' (that isn't supported
        > by older versions of IE, but there are workarounds).
        > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#propdef-position
        >
        > Lotta
        >
        >
      • loro
        ... Ah, but only if that s what you want. What if the user actually likes to open new windows and what if he also likes to save windows with pages he might
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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          Scott wrote:
          >All this said, I think it's much, much better to use a specifically
          >named target window rather than _blank, so you're at least not rudely
          >spawning a gazillion windows, and it also becomes possible to create a
          >history trail in the spawned window. In short, I think _blank is evil,
          >but specifically named targets can be quite useful.

          Ah, but only if that's what you want. What if the user actually likes
          to open new windows and what if he also likes to save windows with
          pages he might want to peruse later, so he minimizes them or lets
          them lose focus while he goes through the rest of the links (I do
          this a lot myself). When he wants to read that interesting page, lo
          and behold, it has been replaced with a totally different page. Boo-hoo.

          That's what it boils down to. No one knows what anyone else wants or
          prefers in a given situation. So keep the options open.

          I'm not adamant about this. There are situations when I think a
          little JS window fits in and doesn't harm anything, but for navigation - nuh.

          Lotta
        • Axel Berger
          ... Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have their place.
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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            Scott Fordin wrote:
            > There are times, however, when it's appropriate to spawn new windows

            Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with
            no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have
            their place. Just remember how rare these instances are.

            > For example, hover-based pop-ups are not so
            > great on mobile phones, and they're really bad if your users rely on
            > screen reading add-ons.

            And of course for those fed up with noisy disturbing backgrounds all
            browsers offer a setting to turn them off. The result is that for me all
            these hovers have a transparent background and become illegible. Alas
            the number of sensible uses of the hover technique is minuscule compared
            to all the inappropriate backgrounds so I live with it.

            Axel
          • Ray Shapp
            Hi Axel and Scott, I m not sure what you are referring to when you say, hover-based pop-ups . Please look at the NewEgg website . Just
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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              Hi Axel and Scott,

              I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "hover-based pop-ups".
              Please look at the NewEgg website <http://www.newegg.com/>. Just below their
              "Search" window, they have a yellow nav bar containing eleven categories of
              product beginning with, "COMPUTER HARDWARE". When I hover over that button,
              a two-column screen opens containing links for about two dozen
              sub-categories of computer hardware. Is this an example of a "hover-based
              pop-up"?

              Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware on the NewEgg site
              are illegible for you?

              Separate but related question: Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
              spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?

              Ray Shapp


              On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

              >
              >
              > Scott Fordin wrote:
              > > There are times, however, when it's appropriate to spawn new windows
              >
              > Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with
              > no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have
              > their place. Just remember how rare these instances are.
              >
              >
              > > For example, hover-based pop-ups are not so
              > > great on mobile phones, and they're really bad if your users rely on
              > > screen reading add-ons.
              >
              > And of course for those fed up with noisy disturbing backgrounds all
              > browsers offer a setting to turn them off. The result is that for me all
              > these hovers have a transparent background and become illegible. Alas
              > the number of sensible uses of the hover technique is minuscule compared
              > to all the inappropriate backgrounds so I live with it.
              >
              > Axel
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Axel Berger
              ... Yes, exactly. ... I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting this is what I see: http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                Ray Shapp wrote:
                > Is this an example of a "hover-based pop-up"?

                Yes, exactly.
                > Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware
                > on the NewEgg site are illegible for you?

                I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
                this is what I see:

                http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png

                > Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
                > spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?

                Yes. Mostly it seems to be because many authors just don't know how to
                do it in pure CSS. On the other hand this example conforms to a
                useability rule of adding a slight delay. See:
                http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-dropdown-menus.html
                under the heading "Speed".

                So here script is good, but they ought to implement pure CSS first and
                have the script, when running, turn that off first and replace it by the
                better version. Never exclude visitors without script.

                By the way my sample design employs the CSS solution in the left menu
                and it shows the problems with that. Try moving down to a certain top
                menu entry from the top, you'll fail. I ought to write a script with
                delay for that, but then we all ought to do many things ...

                Axel
              • Axel Berger
                ... My daughter keeps chiding me about that. It s more than thirty years old and I was younger then than she s now. It happens to be the only photograph of
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                  Ray Shapp wrote:
                  > BTW, Axel, you appear much younger than I had imagined
                  > (assuming that is not a very old photo of you).

                  My daughter keeps chiding me about that. It's more than thirty years old
                  and I was younger then than she's now. It happens to be the only
                  photograph
                  of myself I ever liked.
                  A more current one is this Buddha
                  http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Axel.jpg

                  Axel
                • loro
                  ... Hover based it may be, but it isn t a popup ( a new window). It s a section of the same page that was previously hidden that is shown when the link is
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                    Ray Shapp wrote:
                    >I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "hover-based pop-ups".
                    >Please look at the NewEgg website <http://www.newegg.com/>. Just below their
                    >"Search" window, they have a yellow nav bar containing eleven categories of
                    >product beginning with, "COMPUTER HARDWARE". When I hover over that button,
                    >a two-column screen opens containing links for about two dozen
                    >sub-categories of computer hardware. Is this an example of a "hover-based
                    >pop-up"?

                    Hover based it may be, but it isn't a popup ( a new window). It's a
                    section of the same page that was previously hidden that is shown
                    when the link is hovered.

                    Lotta
                  • Ray Shapp
                    Quoting Axel: Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting this is what I see: http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png That s odd!
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                      Quoting Axel:
                      Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
                      this is what I see:

                      http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png

                      That's odd! Here is what I see:

                      http://www.classiccars.ws/testing/ScreenShot004.jpg

                      Notice they use a link title as well as hover pop-up. That's probably
                      because some browsers are deliberately set to ignore JavaScript or are
                      unable to do so. I am using Firefox v3.6.16 under Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit.


                      Quoting Lotta:
                      Hover based it may be, but it isn't a popup

                      That makes sense. Otherwise my pop-up blocker would prevent me from seeing
                      the enhanced menu.

                      Ray Shapp



                      On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > Ray Shapp wrote:
                      > > Is this an example of a "hover-based pop-up"?
                      >
                      > Yes, exactly.
                      >
                      > > Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware
                      > > on the NewEgg site are illegible for you?
                      >
                      > I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
                      > this is what I see:
                      >
                      > http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png
                      >
                      >
                      > > Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
                      > > spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?
                      >
                      > Yes. Mostly it seems to be because many authors just don't know how to
                      > do it in pure CSS. On the other hand this example conforms to a
                      > useability rule of adding a slight delay. See:
                      > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-dropdown-menus.html
                      > under the heading "Speed".
                      >
                      > So here script is good, but they ought to implement pure CSS first and
                      > have the script, when running, turn that off first and replace it by the
                      > better version. Never exclude visitors without script.
                      >
                      > By the way my sample design employs the CSS solution in the left menu
                      > and it shows the problems with that. Try moving down to a certain top
                      > menu entry from the top, you'll fail. I ought to write a script with
                      > delay for that, but then we all ought to do many things ...
                      >
                      > Axel
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Axel Berger
                      ... Not odd at all, self-inflicted. In Firefox the setting is found in Tools-- Options-- Content-- Colors-- Allow pages...-- No The reason is that now all text
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                        Ray Shapp wrote:
                        > That's odd!

                        Not odd at all, self-inflicted. In Firefox the setting is found in
                        Tools-->Options-->Content-->Colors-->Allow pages...-->No

                        The reason is that now all text on all pages is optimally legible
                        whatever bad contrast and noisy background a misguided designer-artist
                        may have chosen. As Jacob Nielsen keeps saying, people do not browse to
                        pages to admire their beauty but to find things and get things done as
                        quickly and as efficiently as possible. The default background of all
                        elements except <BODY> is transparent and if I forbid changing that,
                        that's what I'll get and hovering in front of other content won't work
                        for text.

                        Your mileage may vary, but whenever I turn colours back on for a page
                        like that one I tend to leave it on for a while and I find that very
                        soon the terrible abominations of taste I'm confronted with make me turn
                        it off very soon again. But be that as it may, it is a fully legal
                        setting that ALL browsers offer right there as a menu switch, so just
                        like script on and off, a minimum font size, and varying window size
                        conscientious designers have to be prepared for it and ensure their
                        designs basic useability. An ugly kludge is fine, it is self inflicted
                        by the visitor after all, but useable it has to be.

                        One possibility would be hover an image, one white pixel with width and
                        height in em, and hover the text in front of that. Contrary to script
                        there is no way, not even employing script, to find out what the
                        vistor's settings are so it's not possible to employ the cludge only
                        when needed. With bad luck your image has exactly the visitor's font
                        colour and will make things even worse.
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