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Re: [NH] Use Of target="_blank"!!

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  • Axel Berger
    ... You re right of course! I have done that quite a few times and I forewent the trial. But you will admit, I think, that editing one file - there will
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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      Michael Rawley wrote:
      > I am, of course, refering to the command 'Ctrl-D'.
      > Try it on half a dozen dummy files first!

      You're right of course! I have done that quite a few times and I
      forewent the trial. But you will admit, I think, that editing one file -
      there will ususally be more than change, even moving something is one
      deletion plus one entry - is quite different from converting each step
      into a replace command (find the right and only the right place) or a
      clip.

      Anyway, I have a prepared clip for just that, where you only need to add
      the specific task at hand. N.B: Defeintely try this out on dummy files
      in a dummy folder first.

      Beware of long lines

      ; Adapt this part to the task in hand
      ^!Set %varFIL%="F:\Webspace\index.php"
      ^!Set %varPAT%="*.htm;*.php"
      ; End of invidual adaptation

      ^!SetWizardLabel "Please define the files to be converted"
      ;^!SetDebug On
      ^!Set %varFIL%=^?{(T=O;F="Source
      Files|*.html;*.htm;*.?html;*.xml;*asp;*.css;*.php;*.php3;*.php4")Sample
      file=^%varFIL%}; %varSDR%=^?{(T=L)Include Subdirectories?==_Yes|No};
      %varPAT%=^?{Search Pattern=^%varPAT%}
      ^!Set %varPTH%=^$GetPath(^%varFIL%)$
      ^!If "^%varSDR%"="Yes" yessub ELSE nosub
      :yessub
      ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileFirst("+^%varPTH%";"^%varPAT%")$
      ^!Goto loop
      :nosub
      ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileFirst("^%varPTH%";"^%varPAT%")$
      :loop
      ^!IfTrue ^$IsEmpty(^%varFIL%)$ finished
      ;^!Continue ^%varFIL%
      ^!Open "^%varFIL%"

      ; Adapt this part to the task in hand

      ^!Replace "http://www.w3.org/Icons/valid-html401" >>
      "http://berger-odenthal.de/pics/valid-html401.png" WAS
      ^!Replace "http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/images/vcss" >>
      "http://berger-odenthal.de/pics/vcss.png" WAS

      ;^!Replace "//EN"> <" >> "//EN"^P
      "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">^P<" WAS

      ; End of invidual adaptation

      ^!Close ALL,SAVE
      ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileNext$
      ^!Goto loop
      :finished
      ^!CloseFileFind




      >
      > Michael Rawley
      > www.normist.co.uk
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
      > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
      > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
      >
      > ***
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      --
      Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 2174/ 7439 07
      Johann-Häck-Str. 14 Fax: +49/ 2174/ 7439 68
      D-51519 Odenthal-Heide eMail: Axel-Berger@...
      Deutschland (Germany) http://berger-odenthal.de
    • Ray Shapp
      Hi Michael and Axel, I will definitely need to use the global replace command in NoteTab (Ctrl+D), however it will be done piecemeal on limited subsections of
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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        Hi Michael and Axel,

        I will definitely need to use the global replace command in NoteTab
        (Ctrl+D), however it will be done piecemeal on limited subsections of the
        site. Currently I have nearly 6,000 files in 238 folders on the astronomy
        club's website. More than 3,000 of the files are JPGs, PDFs, XLS files, and
        DOC files, but that still leaves about 2300 html pages. The index frame
        points to 21 subsections in addition to the Home page. Over the past 12
        years well over a dozen members created and edited various web pages or
        whole sections of the site, and they used a wide variety of formats.

        While eliminating the frames, I want to develop a single CSS style sheet
        that will apply to most HTML pages. I want also a fixed nav bar preferably
        at the top of every page. Most of the current web pages were designed for
        800x600 resolution displays. I want to change that to 1024x768. Of course,
        the site needs to remain usable during the transition, and I am working
        alone on this project. Our hosting plan allows 5GB of storage, and we are
        using only a little over 1GB now. I think it may be best to duplicate the
        entire site using an alternate web address as I convert sections to the new
        format. I'll give out the alternate address to only a few members who might
        have constructive comments about usability of the new design. Axel's clip
        (shown below) will be very useful for making conversions on well-defined
        subsections of the site.

        I don't have any time limit. The only time pressure I feel is
        self-generated.

        Ray Shapp


        On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 7:10 AM, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

        >
        >
        > Michael Rawley wrote:
        > > I am, of course, refering to the command 'Ctrl-D'.
        > > Try it on half a dozen dummy files first!
        >
        > You're right of course! I have done that quite a few times and I
        > forewent the trial. But you will admit, I think, that editing one file -
        > there will ususally be more than change, even moving something is one
        > deletion plus one entry - is quite different from converting each step
        > into a replace command (find the right and only the right place) or a
        > clip.
        >
        > Anyway, I have a prepared clip for just that, where you only need to add
        > the specific task at hand. N.B: Defeintely try this out on dummy files
        > in a dummy folder first.
        >
        > Beware of long lines
        >
        > ; Adapt this part to the task in hand
        > ^!Set %varFIL%="F:\Webspace\index.php"
        > ^!Set %varPAT%="*.htm;*.php"
        > ; End of invidual adaptation
        >
        > ^!SetWizardLabel "Please define the files to be converted"
        > ;^!SetDebug On
        > ^!Set %varFIL%=^?{(T=O;F="Source
        > Files|*.html;*.htm;*.?html;*.xml;*asp;*.css;*.php;*.php3;*.php4")Sample
        > file=^%varFIL%}; %varSDR%=^?{(T=L)Include Subdirectories?==_Yes|No};
        > %varPAT%=^?{Search Pattern=^%varPAT%}
        > ^!Set %varPTH%=^$GetPath(^%varFIL%)$
        > ^!If "^%varSDR%"="Yes" yessub ELSE nosub
        > :yessub
        > ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileFirst("+^%varPTH%";"^%varPAT%")$
        > ^!Goto loop
        > :nosub
        > ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileFirst("^%varPTH%";"^%varPAT%")$
        > :loop
        > ^!IfTrue ^$IsEmpty(^%varFIL%)$ finished
        > ;^!Continue ^%varFIL%
        > ^!Open "^%varFIL%"
        >
        > ; Adapt this part to the task in hand
        >
        > ^!Replace "http://www.w3.org/Icons/valid-html401" >>
        > "http://berger-odenthal.de/pics/valid-html401.png" WAS
        > ^!Replace "http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/images/vcss" >>
        > "http://berger-odenthal.de/pics/vcss.png" WAS
        >
        > ;^!Replace "//EN"> <" >> "//EN"^P
        > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">^P<" WAS
        >
        > ; End of invidual adaptation
        >
        > ^!Close ALL,SAVE
        > ^!Set %varFIL%=^$GetFileNext$
        > ^!Goto loop
        > :finished
        > ^!CloseFileFind
        >
        >
        > >
        > > Michael Rawley
        > > www.normist.co.uk
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        >
        > >
        > > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
        > > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
        > > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
        > >
        > > ***
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > --
        > Dipl.-Ing. F. Axel Berger Tel: +49/ 2174/ 7439 07
        > Johann-H�ck-Str. 14 Fax: +49/ 2174/ 7439 68
        > D-51519 Odenthal-Heide eMail: Axel-Berger@...
        > Deutschland (Germany) http://berger-odenthal.de
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Scott Fordin
        FWIW, I think that, in most cases, you don t want to open links in new windows for many of the reasons already mentioned here. For example, I know the style
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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          FWIW, I think that, in most cases, you don't want to open links in new
          windows for many of the reasons already mentioned here. For example, I
          know the style guidelines for all external Sun Microsystems (let's take
          a moment here to shed a tear) Web sites specifically prohibited spawning
          new windows except in relatively rare circumstances.

          There are times, however, when it's appropriate to spawn new windows
          when you want to provide additional information about a topic or product
          without losing the initial context. Examples here include, say, an
          online help system, or individual photos in a gallery, or a page that
          compares a series of products, or a link to a PDF coupon, or a link that
          takes you to another Web site in an entirely different domain.

          All this said, I think it's much, much better to use a specifically
          named target window rather than _blank, so you're at least not rudely
          spawning a gazillion windows, and it also becomes possible to create a
          history trail in the spawned window. In short, I think _blank is evil,
          but specifically named targets can be quite useful.

          Finally, you could also use some sort of hover-based pop-up for certain
          kinds of content, but that can lead to all sorts of browser, platform,
          and accessibility issues. For example, hover-based pop-ups are not so
          great on mobile phones, and they're really bad if your users rely on
          screen reading add-ons.

          Scott

          On 3/27/2011 1:01 AM, loro wrote:
          > Ray wrote:
          > >Can SSI and a modification of the script at
          > >http://fdp.berger-odenthal.de/base/fix-menue.js keep the nav bar in view
          > >when the user scrolls down the page?
          >
          > Includes don't do anything more than glue the content of files
          > together before the page is served, like a server-side Find &
          > Replace, you could say, only it isn't permanent, the physical files
          > aren't changed.
          >
          > I think you are looking for 'position: fixed' (that isn't supported
          > by older versions of IE, but there are workarounds).
          > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/visuren.html#propdef-position
          >
          > Lotta
          >
          >
        • loro
          ... Ah, but only if that s what you want. What if the user actually likes to open new windows and what if he also likes to save windows with pages he might
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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            Scott wrote:
            >All this said, I think it's much, much better to use a specifically
            >named target window rather than _blank, so you're at least not rudely
            >spawning a gazillion windows, and it also becomes possible to create a
            >history trail in the spawned window. In short, I think _blank is evil,
            >but specifically named targets can be quite useful.

            Ah, but only if that's what you want. What if the user actually likes
            to open new windows and what if he also likes to save windows with
            pages he might want to peruse later, so he minimizes them or lets
            them lose focus while he goes through the rest of the links (I do
            this a lot myself). When he wants to read that interesting page, lo
            and behold, it has been replaced with a totally different page. Boo-hoo.

            That's what it boils down to. No one knows what anyone else wants or
            prefers in a given situation. So keep the options open.

            I'm not adamant about this. There are situations when I think a
            little JS window fits in and doesn't harm anything, but for navigation - nuh.

            Lotta
          • Axel Berger
            ... Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have their place.
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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              Scott Fordin wrote:
              > There are times, however, when it's appropriate to spawn new windows

              Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with
              no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have
              their place. Just remember how rare these instances are.

              > For example, hover-based pop-ups are not so
              > great on mobile phones, and they're really bad if your users rely on
              > screen reading add-ons.

              And of course for those fed up with noisy disturbing backgrounds all
              browsers offer a setting to turn them off. The result is that for me all
              these hovers have a transparent background and become illegible. Alas
              the number of sensible uses of the hover technique is minuscule compared
              to all the inappropriate backgrounds so I live with it.

              Axel
            • Ray Shapp
              Hi Axel and Scott, I m not sure what you are referring to when you say, hover-based pop-ups . Please look at the NewEgg website . Just
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                Hi Axel and Scott,

                I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "hover-based pop-ups".
                Please look at the NewEgg website <http://www.newegg.com/>. Just below their
                "Search" window, they have a yellow nav bar containing eleven categories of
                product beginning with, "COMPUTER HARDWARE". When I hover over that button,
                a two-column screen opens containing links for about two dozen
                sub-categories of computer hardware. Is this an example of a "hover-based
                pop-up"?

                Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware on the NewEgg site
                are illegible for you?

                Separate but related question: Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
                spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?

                Ray Shapp


                On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 6:34 PM, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Scott Fordin wrote:
                > > There are times, however, when it's appropriate to spawn new windows
                >
                > Yes absolutely. I know I tend to be of the black and white school with
                > no exceptions, but when used sensibly pop-ups and new windows do have
                > their place. Just remember how rare these instances are.
                >
                >
                > > For example, hover-based pop-ups are not so
                > > great on mobile phones, and they're really bad if your users rely on
                > > screen reading add-ons.
                >
                > And of course for those fed up with noisy disturbing backgrounds all
                > browsers offer a setting to turn them off. The result is that for me all
                > these hovers have a transparent background and become illegible. Alas
                > the number of sensible uses of the hover technique is minuscule compared
                > to all the inappropriate backgrounds so I live with it.
                >
                > Axel
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Axel Berger
                ... Yes, exactly. ... I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting this is what I see: http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                  Ray Shapp wrote:
                  > Is this an example of a "hover-based pop-up"?

                  Yes, exactly.
                  > Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware
                  > on the NewEgg site are illegible for you?

                  I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
                  this is what I see:

                  http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png

                  > Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
                  > spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?

                  Yes. Mostly it seems to be because many authors just don't know how to
                  do it in pure CSS. On the other hand this example conforms to a
                  useability rule of adding a slight delay. See:
                  http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-dropdown-menus.html
                  under the heading "Speed".

                  So here script is good, but they ought to implement pure CSS first and
                  have the script, when running, turn that off first and replace it by the
                  better version. Never exclude visitors without script.

                  By the way my sample design employs the CSS solution in the left menu
                  and it shows the problems with that. Try moving down to a certain top
                  menu entry from the top, you'll fail. I ought to write a script with
                  delay for that, but then we all ought to do many things ...

                  Axel
                • Axel Berger
                  ... My daughter keeps chiding me about that. It s more than thirty years old and I was younger then than she s now. It happens to be the only photograph of
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                    Ray Shapp wrote:
                    > BTW, Axel, you appear much younger than I had imagined
                    > (assuming that is not a very old photo of you).

                    My daughter keeps chiding me about that. It's more than thirty years old
                    and I was younger then than she's now. It happens to be the only
                    photograph
                    of myself I ever liked.
                    A more current one is this Buddha
                    http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Axel.jpg

                    Axel
                  • loro
                    ... Hover based it may be, but it isn t a popup ( a new window). It s a section of the same page that was previously hidden that is shown when the link is
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 27, 2011
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                      Ray Shapp wrote:
                      >I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say, "hover-based pop-ups".
                      >Please look at the NewEgg website <http://www.newegg.com/>. Just below their
                      >"Search" window, they have a yellow nav bar containing eleven categories of
                      >product beginning with, "COMPUTER HARDWARE". When I hover over that button,
                      >a two-column screen opens containing links for about two dozen
                      >sub-categories of computer hardware. Is this an example of a "hover-based
                      >pop-up"?

                      Hover based it may be, but it isn't a popup ( a new window). It's a
                      section of the same page that was previously hidden that is shown
                      when the link is hovered.

                      Lotta
                    • Ray Shapp
                      Quoting Axel: Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting this is what I see: http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png That s odd!
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                        Quoting Axel:
                        Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
                        this is what I see:

                        http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png

                        That's odd! Here is what I see:

                        http://www.classiccars.ws/testing/ScreenShot004.jpg

                        Notice they use a link title as well as hover pop-up. That's probably
                        because some browsers are deliberately set to ignore JavaScript or are
                        unable to do so. I am using Firefox v3.6.16 under Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit.


                        Quoting Lotta:
                        Hover based it may be, but it isn't a popup

                        That makes sense. Otherwise my pop-up blocker would prevent me from seeing
                        the enhanced menu.

                        Ray Shapp



                        On Sun, Mar 27, 2011 at 9:04 PM, Axel Berger <Axel-Berger@...> wrote:

                        >
                        >
                        > Ray Shapp wrote:
                        > > Is this an example of a "hover-based pop-up"?
                        >
                        > Yes, exactly.
                        >
                        > > Axel, are you saying that the subcategories of hardware
                        > > on the NewEgg site are illegible for you?
                        >
                        > I am. Firstly they are not even present and after allowing scripting
                        > this is what I see:
                        >
                        > http://berger-odenthal.de/upload/Clipboard01.png
                        >
                        >
                        > > Do most of these hover-based pop-ups get
                        > > spawned by the operation of JavaScript code?
                        >
                        > Yes. Mostly it seems to be because many authors just don't know how to
                        > do it in pure CSS. On the other hand this example conforms to a
                        > useability rule of adding a slight delay. See:
                        > http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-dropdown-menus.html
                        > under the heading "Speed".
                        >
                        > So here script is good, but they ought to implement pure CSS first and
                        > have the script, when running, turn that off first and replace it by the
                        > better version. Never exclude visitors without script.
                        >
                        > By the way my sample design employs the CSS solution in the left menu
                        > and it shows the problems with that. Try moving down to a certain top
                        > menu entry from the top, you'll fail. I ought to write a script with
                        > delay for that, but then we all ought to do many things ...
                        >
                        > Axel
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Axel Berger
                        ... Not odd at all, self-inflicted. In Firefox the setting is found in Tools-- Options-- Content-- Colors-- Allow pages...-- No The reason is that now all text
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 28, 2011
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                          Ray Shapp wrote:
                          > That's odd!

                          Not odd at all, self-inflicted. In Firefox the setting is found in
                          Tools-->Options-->Content-->Colors-->Allow pages...-->No

                          The reason is that now all text on all pages is optimally legible
                          whatever bad contrast and noisy background a misguided designer-artist
                          may have chosen. As Jacob Nielsen keeps saying, people do not browse to
                          pages to admire their beauty but to find things and get things done as
                          quickly and as efficiently as possible. The default background of all
                          elements except <BODY> is transparent and if I forbid changing that,
                          that's what I'll get and hovering in front of other content won't work
                          for text.

                          Your mileage may vary, but whenever I turn colours back on for a page
                          like that one I tend to leave it on for a while and I find that very
                          soon the terrible abominations of taste I'm confronted with make me turn
                          it off very soon again. But be that as it may, it is a fully legal
                          setting that ALL browsers offer right there as a menu switch, so just
                          like script on and off, a minimum font size, and varying window size
                          conscientious designers have to be prepared for it and ensure their
                          designs basic useability. An ugly kludge is fine, it is self inflicted
                          by the visitor after all, but useable it has to be.

                          One possibility would be hover an image, one white pixel with width and
                          height in em, and hover the text in front of that. Contrary to script
                          there is no way, not even employing script, to find out what the
                          vistor's settings are so it's not possible to employ the cludge only
                          when needed. With bad luck your image has exactly the visitor's font
                          colour and will make things even worse.
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