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Re: [NH] Question about special characters being replaced with '?' in HTML documents

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  • Axel Berger
    ... Beg to differ. I m sure it s not the standard ASCII double quotes right there on the keyboard but the typographic ones higher up in the charset. I d say
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 3, 2011
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      John Shotsky wrote:
      > But since your problem is with lower-order ASCII characters,
      > I suspect it is Unicode.

      Beg to differ. I'm sure it's not the standard ASCII double quotes right
      there on the keyboard but the typographic ones higher up in the charset.
      I'd say when you paste into an existing document, that document already
      has its encoding set, and if pasted characters don't exist in it, that's
      it. A new document can still adapt itself.

      Whatever it is, the existing document and the one the new text is copied
      from are in some way incompatible.

      Axel
    • John Shotsky
      Yes, of course it could be a character set problem - I never said it couldn t be. But my suspicion is that it really is a Unicode problem. NoteTab is very
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 3, 2011
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        Yes, of course it could be a character set problem - I never said it couldn't be. But my suspicion is that it really is
        a Unicode problem. NoteTab is very unreliable when working with Unicode. I can tell, if I have access to one of the
        original files, not saved by NoteTab. Once saved, the question marks are saved in place of the characters in question.

        Regards,
        John
        Recipe formatting tools: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com
        RecipeTools FTP Site: <ftp://recipetoolsftp.gotdns.com/> ftp://recipetoolsftp.gotdns.com
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        From: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-html@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Axel Berger
        Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:10 PM
        To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [NH] Question about special characters being replaced with '?' in HTML documents


        John Shotsky wrote:
        > But since your problem is with lower-order ASCII characters,
        > I suspect it is Unicode.

        Beg to differ. I'm sure it's not the standard ASCII double quotes right
        there on the keyboard but the typographic ones higher up in the charset.
        I'd say when you paste into an existing document, that document already
        has its encoding set, and if pasted characters don't exist in it, that's
        it. A new document can still adapt itself.

        Whatever it is, the existing document and the one the new text is copied
        from are in some way incompatible.

        Axel



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Don
        I have had similar problems in fact. I emailed about it not long ago. I think I found relief by switching to a different font if I remember correctly.
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 3, 2011
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          I have had similar problems in fact. I emailed about it not long ago.
          I think I found relief by switching to a different font if I remember
          correctly.

          On 2/4/2011 12:23 AM, John Shotsky wrote:
          > Yes, of course it could be a character set problem - I never said it couldn't be. But my suspicion is that it really is
          > a Unicode problem. NoteTab is very unreliable when working with Unicode. I can tell, if I have access to one of the
          > original files, not saved by NoteTab. Once saved, the question marks are saved in place of the characters in question.
          >
        • John Shotsky
          But every font accepts double quotes. That s why I suggested Unicode. Regards, John Recipe formatting tools:
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 3, 2011
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            But every font accepts double quotes. That's why I suggested Unicode.

            Regards,
            John
            Recipe formatting tools: <http://recipetools.gotdns.com/> http://recipetools.gotdns.com
            RecipeTools FTP Site: <ftp://recipetoolsftp.gotdns.com/> ftp://recipetoolsftp.gotdns.com
            Beaverton Weather: <http://shotsky.gotdns.com/> http://shotsky.gotdns.com

            From: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-html@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Don
            Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 9:51 PM
            To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [NH] Question about special characters being replaced with '?' in HTML documents


            I have had similar problems in fact. I emailed about it not long ago.
            I think I found relief by switching to a different font if I remember
            correctly.

            On 2/4/2011 12:23 AM, John Shotsky wrote:
            > Yes, of course it could be a character set problem - I never said it couldn't be. But my suspicion is that it really
            is
            > a Unicode problem. NoteTab is very unreliable when working with Unicode. I can tell, if I have access to one of the
            > original files, not saved by NoteTab. Once saved, the question marks are saved in place of the characters in question.
            >



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Don
            or do they? double quotes aren t always double quotes, they are smart quotes and so forth which was where I was having troubles
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 3, 2011
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              or do they? double quotes aren't always double quotes, they are smart
              quotes and so forth which was where I was having troubles

              On 2/4/2011 12:56 AM, John Shotsky wrote:
              > But every font accepts double quotes. That's why I suggested Unicode.
              >
            • Axel Berger
              ... I agree, after all Unicode is a kind of character set. I tend to use the primitive notepad for pasting and saving from websites and only paste short
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 4, 2011
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                John Shotsky wrote:
                > But my suspicion is that it really is a Unicode problem.
                > NoteTab is very unreliable when working with Unicode.

                I agree, after all Unicode is a kind of character set. I tend to use the
                primitive notepad for pasting and saving from websites and only paste
                short snippets directly. In the latter case wrong characters are obvious
                and quickly dealt with. (And many html pages are pasted into in the
                first place and have broken characters right there, so there's no way
                manual rework can be eliminated entirely.)

                Axel
              • Sheri
                ... NoteTab is an ANSI editor, not a Unicode one. Since version 6, it supports raw utf-8 as a way of preserving unicode. NoteTab allows you to use the
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 4, 2011
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                  On 2/4/2011 4:02 AM, Axel Berger wrote:
                  > John Shotsky wrote:
                  >> But my suspicion is that it really is a Unicode problem.
                  >> NoteTab is very unreliable when working with Unicode.
                  > I agree, after all Unicode is a kind of character set. I tend to use the
                  > primitive notepad for pasting and saving from websites and only paste
                  > short snippets directly. In the latter case wrong characters are obvious
                  > and quickly dealt with. (And many html pages are pasted into in the
                  > first place and have broken characters right there, so there's no way
                  > manual rework can be eliminated entirely.)
                  >
                  > Axel
                  >

                  NoteTab is an ANSI editor, not a Unicode one. Since version 6, it
                  supports raw utf-8 as a way of preserving unicode. NoteTab allows you to
                  use the Microsoft "ansi" table for utf-8. If you use raw utf-8, upper
                  characters will always appear as multiple bytes (goobledy gook) in
                  NoteTab regardless of the font chosen. Raw utf-8 is the only choice if
                  you want to edit unicode (Basic Multilinqual Plane only) completely
                  losslessly in NoteTab. When used for that purpose, it is more like a
                  data editor than a text editor. It is possible to use NoteTab to
                  reliably modify "unicode" that will be viewed outside of NoteTab, or to
                  carry out custom character conversions to "normal" ANSI formats.Utf-8
                  regex is the only tool provided.

                  All of this operates reliably, but easily goes awry when the user makes
                  a mistake. I think (and have previously reported) that better error
                  reporting could be implemented. For example, if you tell the PCRE regex
                  engine you are testing utf-8 and it sees text that is not utf-8 (e.g.,
                  because you've already made erroneous changes) it raises an error which
                  NoteTab doesn't tell you.

                  Despite the limitations, I've found having the capability to be useful.
                  Also, for more pedestrian use where losslessness is not imperative,
                  unicode can be converted to normal ANSI and edited normally in NoteTab.
                  But for obvious reasons when you need a unicode editor you should use one.

                  Regards,
                  Sheri
                • loro
                  ... Do you copy the text from a page displayed in a browser or from the source? In either case is the source document on the web and can you link to it? I
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 4, 2011
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                    John wrote:
                    >For example - if I paste the following from anotehr site:
                    >
                    >"We were never happy with the production. Perhaps we should have
                    >taken more time over the record. But now we've got the chance to
                    >improve things. There will be no re-recording, just a remix".
                    >
                    >It will appear in Notetab as:
                    >
                    >?We were never happy with the production. Perhaps we should have
                    >taken more time over the record. But now we?ve got the chance to
                    >improve things. There will be no re-recording, just a remix?.

                    Do you copy the text from a page displayed in a browser or from the
                    source? In either case is the source document on the web and can you
                    link to it? I tried to google it up, but that quote is used on
                    hundreds of sites, it seems.

                    Lotta
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