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Re: [NH] Working with frame sets...

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  • Michael Rawley
    Hi Joe, Let me add my two penniworth. As has been said, Frames are on their way out. The reason that they still work is that if browsers no longer react to
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 1 1:14 AM
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      Hi Joe,

      Let me add my two penniworth. As has been said, Frames are on their way
      out. The reason that they still work is that if browsers no longer react
      to them, too many webmasters are going to have to burn the the midnight oil.

      At the same time you can't get too up-to-date because browsers have not
      caught up to the latest standards, apart from which some people still
      use out-of-date browsers.

      In my web writing tutorial, I have tried to keep to the latest standards
      that on the whole work in most browsers. Having said that, we are due to
      get a new standard during this year!

      Regards,

      Michael,
      www.normist.co.uk
    • Greg Chapman
      Hi Michael, ... Even more reason for recommending that any new project should be done to a HTML4.01 STRICT doctype then! (i.e. No Frames!) Once browsers have
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 1 1:48 AM
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        Hi Michael,

        On 01 Mar 10 09:14 Michael Rawley <rawley@...> said:

        > we are due to get a new standard during this year!

        Even more reason for recommending that any new project should be done
        to a HTML4.01 STRICT doctype then! (i.e. No Frames!)

        Once browsers have caught up to handle it, the job of updating to th
        new standard will be so much easier. No point in setting yourself up
        for another complete re-build in a couple of years time.

        (My understanding is that HTML5 will not require a major rebuild of
        existing 4.01 STRICT code. It will just add a few bells and whistles
        to make some popular features easy to implement, e.g. rounded corners
        will no longer require a host of miniature graphics to implement.)

        Greg Chapman
        http://www.gregtutor.plus.com
        Helping new users of KompoZer and The GIMP
      • Axel Berger
        ... Not quite. and are alowed neither in strict nor in transitional but only in frameset. I do not use strict myself, because I insist on
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 1 3:38 AM
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          Greg Chapman wrote:
          > Even more reason for recommending that any new project should be done
          > to a HTML4.01 STRICT doctype then! (i.e. No Frames!)

          Not quite. <FRAME> and <FRAMESET> are alowed neither in strict nor in
          transitional but only in frameset. I do not use strict myself, because I
          insist on being able to use tags like <CENTER> and attributes like ALIGN
          for a little minimal styling in browsers without CSS support - I test my
          pages in Netscape 4.8. But apart from that I adhere to the strict rules
          even if not binding myself to them.

          Apart from that I wholeheartedly agree about frames. The resize exremely
          badly with the window size and they make it impossible to bookmark
          relevant pages, both hurting the visitor very much. Even if not using
          SSI, Notetab makes it extremely easy to do the same change in a whole
          bunch of pages in one go, thus invalidating the main reason for them.

          Axel
        • Marcelo Bastos
          Tidy is a great tool and I use it a lot. Unfortunately, the official version is still stuck in HTML 4/XHTML, so attempting to use HTML5 elements causes a lot
          Message 4 of 20 , Aug 5, 2012
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            Tidy is a great tool and I use it a lot. Unfortunately, the official
            version is still stuck in HTML 4/XHTML, so attempting to use HTML5
            elements causes a lot of noise in the error log.

            But of course, being free software, somebody is taking care of this
            problem. An experimental fork of Tidy is being developed here:

            http://w3c.github.com/tidy-html5/

            A Windows build (dated from April, so not the latest cutting-edge thing,
            but probably acceptable) can be found here:

            http://www.broerse.net/wordpress/2012/04/28/tidy-html5/

            It's supposedly not production quality software, but it might be useful
            anyway.

            --
            MCBastos

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          • Adrien Verlee
            ... That webpage seems to be a security risk, it is blocked by Microsoft Security Essentials -- Adrien
            Message 5 of 20 , Aug 5, 2012
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              Op 5/08/2012 20:35, Marcelo Bastos schreef:

              > http://www.broerse.net/wordpress/2012/04/28/tidy-html5/
              >

              That webpage seems to be a security risk, it is blocked by Microsoft
              Security Essentials

              --
              Adrien
            • Marcelo Bastos
              ... You re right, I checked and Google Safe Browsing gives a warning too, but the full diagnostic page is a bit ambivalent about it:
              Message 6 of 20 , Aug 5, 2012
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                Interviewed by CNN on 05/08/2012 15:51, Adrien Verlee told the world:
                > Op 5/08/2012 20:35, Marcelo Bastos schreef:
                >
                >> http://www.broerse.net/wordpress/2012/04/28/tidy-html5/
                >>
                > That webpage seems to be a security risk, it is blocked by Microsoft
                > Security Essentials

                You're right, I checked and Google Safe Browsing gives a warning too,
                but the full diagnostic page is a bit ambivalent about it:

                <http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://www.broerse.net/wordpress/2012/04/28/tidy-html5/&hl=en>

                I didn't notice any problems, but then, I have NoScript blocking most
                scripts... Avast didn't complain either. I think they got hacked at some
                point in the past and some script was trying to install malware. Perhaps
                it's fixed now and the site just wasn't cleared from the blacklists
                yet. It's probably a bad idea to visit it with vanilla Internet
                Explorer, particularly older version, anyway.

                But the Tidy binary itself seems to be OK; I uploaded it to Virustotal
                and it got a totally clean bill of health -- 0 alerts from 40 antivirus
                products.

                --
                MCBastos

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