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Re: [NH] Working with frame sets...

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  • woodysnomad
    How would I do that? I am working in NoteTab Pro on my computer and the pages have not been forwarded to the comcast server until they are working ones.
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 28, 2010
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      How would I do that? I am working in NoteTab Pro on my computer and the pages have not been forwarded to the comcast server until they are working ones.

      --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, "Don - HtmlFixIt.com" <don@...> wrote:
      >
      > much nicer if you simply post your page and then give us a link
      > beats long pastes etc. and we can see it in context
      >
      > > Now my latest: This css doesn't work... I don't know why and am going
      > > nuts... Here is my code and I'm hoping you will look at at and tell me why
      > > it won't work.
      >
    • Don - HtmlFixIt.com
      post the broken page to comcast like create a directory called test or demo and put the broken pages there and then we can trouble shoot them
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 28, 2010
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        post the broken page to comcast like
        create a directory called "test" or "demo" and put the broken pages
        there and then we can trouble shoot them

        On 2/28/2010 10:09 PM, woodysnomad wrote:
        > How would I do that? I am working in NoteTab Pro on my computer and the pages have not been forwarded to the comcast server until they are working ones.
      • Greg Chapman
        Hi Joe, ... So you didn t do what the first paragraph suggested and reduce the size of your window or add more content to the page? :-) ... The specs for HTML
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 28, 2010
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          Hi Joe,

          On 01 Mar 10 01:31 "jmgledhill" <jmgledhill@...> said:
          > I ran your code as suggested and it worked fine! That is what I
          > want and I assume that the left side will not scroll where the right
          > side will?

          So you didn't do what the first paragraph suggested and reduce the
          size of your window or add more content to the page? :-)

          > I got great help on the frames and it is working well to so why do
          > you feel it is an obsolete technique?

          The specs for HTML 4.01 were published in December 1999, so have been
          around for over ten years. The W3C would have expected all new sites
          constructed since then to use the STRICT doctype. That specification
          bans the use of FRAMESET, FRAME and NOFRAME, so you cannot produce a
          site that uses them and have code that will pass validation.

          The TRANSITIONAL doctype that you are currently using does allow them,
          but was only intended to be used for updating an existing site. Ten
          years on and a complete rebuild of the type you are contemplating
          should prompt you to use best practice coding techniques.

          While it's true that most modern browsers are exceedingly forgving in
          handling invalid and elderly code, so that many people will say "Why
          bother?", but a further reason for using the best modern pratice is to
          allow for new technologies that have developed since 1999. These days
          more many people are using PDAs Smartphones, netbooks, etc, to access
          the web and some of these devices do not handle old coding techniques,
          like frames, as well as a browser on a desktop computer.

          > Others seem to thing what I have done so far is OK.

          Others have, perhaps, chosen simply to answer your questions rather
          than open a can of worms by advising on the best approach. Answering a
          question in the form that you know a questioner will be able to
          implement is less hassle than challenging their whole approach. Who
          can blame them for going for the easy life? :-)

          > I am reading up on div but and I do plan on using the li for the
          > menu items later after I get other stuff fixed in css.

          It's good to know that you are reading up on DIVs. I saw that your
          current site uses a minimal external stylesheet, so I know you know
          how to implement one. Using <divs> and CSS should prove to be a
          trivial bit of new learning but with a fundamental impact on the
          quality of your site building. My demo file used an internal
          stylesheet, but I would expect you to export it as a separate file
          when used in your updated site.

          I am assuming that when you say you are fixing things in CSS you are
          planning to take the opportunity to remove all those BLOCKQUOTE and BR
          tags. You seem to use these elements a lot to produce indentation and
          breaks between paragraphs. I would urge you to use the appropriate <p>
          tags for your body text and use CSS to add any non-standard margins
          where you want them (e.g. add a margin in your CSS for <h1> instead of
          adding a <br>). Use of appropriate tags, can help with search engine
          rankings.

          Now that's probably far more than you wanted to handle, but I think
          will bring your coding quality on in leaps an bounds. :-)

          OK, one more example snippet of code to add to the stylesheet on that
          demo file I posted earlier. Change the h1 styling segment to read:

          #main h1 {
          margin-bottom: 1em;
          margin-top: 0em;
          font-size: 2em;
          font-family: "Times New Roman",Times,serif;
          border: 1px solid #cccccc;
          background-color: #660000;
          padding-top: 0.25em;
          color: white;
          text-align: center;
          padding-bottom: 0.25em;
          }

          There's a lot more there than a bit of bottom margin to replace the
          <br> tag and CSS centering of the heading rather than the HTML
          attribute that you are currently using, but with your current method
          you'd have to go through every page and change the code. With CSS
          every page alters with just the change to the CSS file.

          And that definitely is more than enough for you to chew on! :-)

          Greg
        • Michael Rawley
          Hi Joe, Let me add my two penniworth. As has been said, Frames are on their way out. The reason that they still work is that if browsers no longer react to
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 1, 2010
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            Hi Joe,

            Let me add my two penniworth. As has been said, Frames are on their way
            out. The reason that they still work is that if browsers no longer react
            to them, too many webmasters are going to have to burn the the midnight oil.

            At the same time you can't get too up-to-date because browsers have not
            caught up to the latest standards, apart from which some people still
            use out-of-date browsers.

            In my web writing tutorial, I have tried to keep to the latest standards
            that on the whole work in most browsers. Having said that, we are due to
            get a new standard during this year!

            Regards,

            Michael,
            www.normist.co.uk
          • Greg Chapman
            Hi Michael, ... Even more reason for recommending that any new project should be done to a HTML4.01 STRICT doctype then! (i.e. No Frames!) Once browsers have
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 1, 2010
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              Hi Michael,

              On 01 Mar 10 09:14 Michael Rawley <rawley@...> said:

              > we are due to get a new standard during this year!

              Even more reason for recommending that any new project should be done
              to a HTML4.01 STRICT doctype then! (i.e. No Frames!)

              Once browsers have caught up to handle it, the job of updating to th
              new standard will be so much easier. No point in setting yourself up
              for another complete re-build in a couple of years time.

              (My understanding is that HTML5 will not require a major rebuild of
              existing 4.01 STRICT code. It will just add a few bells and whistles
              to make some popular features easy to implement, e.g. rounded corners
              will no longer require a host of miniature graphics to implement.)

              Greg Chapman
              http://www.gregtutor.plus.com
              Helping new users of KompoZer and The GIMP
            • Axel Berger
              ... Not quite. and are alowed neither in strict nor in transitional but only in frameset. I do not use strict myself, because I insist on
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 1, 2010
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                Greg Chapman wrote:
                > Even more reason for recommending that any new project should be done
                > to a HTML4.01 STRICT doctype then! (i.e. No Frames!)

                Not quite. <FRAME> and <FRAMESET> are alowed neither in strict nor in
                transitional but only in frameset. I do not use strict myself, because I
                insist on being able to use tags like <CENTER> and attributes like ALIGN
                for a little minimal styling in browsers without CSS support - I test my
                pages in Netscape 4.8. But apart from that I adhere to the strict rules
                even if not binding myself to them.

                Apart from that I wholeheartedly agree about frames. The resize exremely
                badly with the window size and they make it impossible to bookmark
                relevant pages, both hurting the visitor very much. Even if not using
                SSI, Notetab makes it extremely easy to do the same change in a whole
                bunch of pages in one go, thus invalidating the main reason for them.

                Axel
              • Marcelo Bastos
                Tidy is a great tool and I use it a lot. Unfortunately, the official version is still stuck in HTML 4/XHTML, so attempting to use HTML5 elements causes a lot
                Message 7 of 20 , Aug 5, 2012
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                  Tidy is a great tool and I use it a lot. Unfortunately, the official
                  version is still stuck in HTML 4/XHTML, so attempting to use HTML5
                  elements causes a lot of noise in the error log.

                  But of course, being free software, somebody is taking care of this
                  problem. An experimental fork of Tidy is being developed here:

                  http://w3c.github.com/tidy-html5/

                  A Windows build (dated from April, so not the latest cutting-edge thing,
                  but probably acceptable) can be found here:

                  http://www.broerse.net/wordpress/2012/04/28/tidy-html5/

                  It's supposedly not production quality software, but it might be useful
                  anyway.

                  --
                  MCBastos

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                • Adrien Verlee
                  ... That webpage seems to be a security risk, it is blocked by Microsoft Security Essentials -- Adrien
                  Message 8 of 20 , Aug 5, 2012
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                    Op 5/08/2012 20:35, Marcelo Bastos schreef:

                    > http://www.broerse.net/wordpress/2012/04/28/tidy-html5/
                    >

                    That webpage seems to be a security risk, it is blocked by Microsoft
                    Security Essentials

                    --
                    Adrien
                  • Marcelo Bastos
                    ... You re right, I checked and Google Safe Browsing gives a warning too, but the full diagnostic page is a bit ambivalent about it:
                    Message 9 of 20 , Aug 5, 2012
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                      Interviewed by CNN on 05/08/2012 15:51, Adrien Verlee told the world:
                      > Op 5/08/2012 20:35, Marcelo Bastos schreef:
                      >
                      >> http://www.broerse.net/wordpress/2012/04/28/tidy-html5/
                      >>
                      > That webpage seems to be a security risk, it is blocked by Microsoft
                      > Security Essentials

                      You're right, I checked and Google Safe Browsing gives a warning too,
                      but the full diagnostic page is a bit ambivalent about it:

                      <http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/diagnostic?site=http://www.broerse.net/wordpress/2012/04/28/tidy-html5/&hl=en>

                      I didn't notice any problems, but then, I have NoScript blocking most
                      scripts... Avast didn't complain either. I think they got hacked at some
                      point in the past and some script was trying to install malware. Perhaps
                      it's fixed now and the site just wasn't cleared from the blacklists
                      yet. It's probably a bad idea to visit it with vanilla Internet
                      Explorer, particularly older version, anyway.

                      But the Tidy binary itself seems to be OK; I uploaded it to Virustotal
                      and it got a totally clean bill of health -- 0 alerts from 40 antivirus
                      products.

                      --
                      MCBastos

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