Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [NH] centering image for all monitors

Expand Messages
  • Edward
    Mick I have purloined you page for the present. Looks like what the boss wants. I will be making changes as I go, but I may stay with your tables until I get
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Mick
      I have purloined you page for the present. Looks like what the boss wants.
      I will be making changes as I go, but I may stay with your tables until I
      get to working with divs. I have used tables within tables and in fact just
      about every you that you can use tables but I quit making pages several
      years ago and not only lost out on keeping up with the changes, but at 80+
      years my brain has lost some of its abilities but it still does pretty good.
      Thanks for your help. I will be working with divs. May have to go find the
      latest cightml book.
      Ed

      Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves
      for they shall never cease to be amused.
      -- Unknown

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "MotoMania" <motomania@...>
      To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 12:15 AM
      Subject: Re: [NH] centering image for all monitors


      > Howdy Ed,
      >
      > I took a quick look at your source code and you were trying to solve the
      > layout using tables inside of tables. As you discovered, nesting tables
      > can quickly make it very difficult to figure out what is where without
      > using different color borders for different tables or cells.
      >
      > I redid your layout using a single table that has 3 rows with 3 columns.
      > Like sisterscape, I prefer using div's for layout purposes but tables
      > have been used for years. Feel free to take a look the source code, I
      > put in a few comments to try to help explain a few things. The bottom
      > row of three columns were merged, mainly just to show that you can do
      > that like if want to use it as a footer that stretches across the width
      > of table as one area.
      >
      > Of course, you can change the table width to a set size in pixels, If
      > wanted but that will keep the table from being "liquid".
      >
      > Here's that page I put together. Hope it helps a bit.
      >
      > http://www.mickhousel.com/edbrown/edbrown.html
      >
      > Mick
      >
      > Edward wrote:
      >> I am having trouble getting an image to center after putting a table
      >> with the links ot other pages on the left side of the page. I have
      >> managed on my computer to center the statement beneath the image. You
      >> can see what I have on the web at this address:
      >> http://home.comcast.net/~ebrown1927/Weatherford/home.html
      >> <http://home.comcast.net/~ebrown1927/Weatherford/home.html> The picture
      >> and the statement was centered until I put the links on the left side,
      >> that is where the owner wants the links, and then both the picture and
      >> statement moved to the right. I have the statement now centered on my
      >> computer but not on the web yet. But I have not been able to get the
      >> picture to move left any amount, except it will move all the way over
      >> next to the links. I want them centered below the top or opening
      >> statement which is the title of the home page. When I try to use
      >> absolute postioning the postion appears to change with monitor size. I
      >> must not be doing something right.
      >>
      >> Ed Brown
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
      > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
      > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
      >
      > ***
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
    • MotoMania
      Sorry if I came across as preaching about nesting tables but it s an easy way to get lost in layouts. Glad that got things started. I try to stay W3C XHTML 1.1
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Sorry if I came across as preaching about nesting tables but it's an
        easy way to get lost in layouts.

        Glad that got things started. I try to stay W3C XHTML 1.1 and CSS
        standard with any sites that I create or update. Once you get your head
        around working with div's for layout, you create some interesting stuff.

        Good on ya for keeping your brain occupied and being creative. I use PHP
        quite a bit in websites. Building modules like menus, footers, etc.
        using various variables such as userlevels, etc. and then just include
        the correct menu/file/etc. I love the fact that I can edit one line in
        one file that is used in hundreds/thousands of pages instead of editing
        hundreds/thousands of pages for a one line change. Even with the great
        search and replace functionality of NTB, it's just much simpler to do a
        quick edit and be done.

        Mick

        Edward wrote:
        > Mick
        > I have purloined you page for the present. Looks like what the boss wants.
        > I will be making changes as I go, but I may stay with your tables until I
        > get to working with divs. I have used tables within tables and in fact just
        > about every you that you can use tables but I quit making pages several
        > years ago and not only lost out on keeping up with the changes, but at 80+
        > years my brain has lost some of its abilities but it still does pretty
        > good.
        > Thanks for your help. I will be working with divs. May have to go find the
        > latest cightml book.
        > Ed
        >
        > Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves
        > for they shall never cease to be amused.
        > -- Unknown
      • Edward
        ... From: Axel Berger To: Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:32 AM Subject: Re: [NH] centering image for
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Axel Berger" <Axel-Berger@...>
          To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:32 AM
          Subject: Re: [NH] centering image for all monitors


          Alex wrote:

          > Sorry for being a nasty unhelpful soandso again, but your code does
          > not even validate and is full of mistakes. Validating tools exist
          > and trying to make anything surrounded by unvalid code do something
          > specific, be it sing, dance, or centre, is a mug's game.
          >
          > Apart from errors and typos like missing quotes there is one big
          > mistage: You let the user load down a huge image over his slow and
          > expensive connection and then use the browser's (any browser's) very
          > basic and substandard mechanism to scale it down. Always scale
          > images to the desired size first and insert them at exactly that
          > size.
          >
          > Axel
          and he also wrote:
          One shouldn't use *any* fixed size for fonts. It is up to the user to
          set up his browser to suit his monitor and eyesight and up to us to
          respect these choices. This means the basic font size for normal text
          should never be messed with and all other sizes, big, headlines, and the
          "small print", ought to be expressed in units of em. Many sites are done
          so badly that the only sensible choice is turning off the rendering of
          CSS completely. Is this what we want to force our readers (and sometimes
          voters and customers) into having to do?

          Alex,
          Of course you are correct and I will endeavor to make the necessary changes
          as time marches on. I really appreciate you help. I think letting the
          viewer be the master of the fonts is a great idea. Would you give me a web
          page site of yours so I can view the source and see exactly how you did
          this. I can read about it all day on W3C and never really fully understand
          what they are saying. Seeing the code on a page is very helpful and changing
          the fonts to the ones that I like would be great. Once again let me say
          thank you for replying to my questions. I really do appreciate all the
          critiques, I always find them very useful and the people on this yahoo group
          are always so good to pitch in and help.

          I will check the images, I thought I had photoshopped them down to a small
          resolution. Very sorry about that. I will do make the resolution smaller as
          time permits and before I put the pages up on a hosting site.
          Ed B
        • Don - HtmlFixIt.com
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
            "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
            <html lang="en">
            <head>
            <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
            <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
            <title>Saltillo Home Page</title>
            <style type="text/css" media="screen">
            body
            {
            margin: 0;
            padding: 0;
            font-size: 90%;
            font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
            color: blue;
            }

            #gutter
            {
            float: left;
            width: 3%;
            height: 1px;
            }

            #col1
            {
            float: left;
            width: 800px;
            background-color: #fff;
            margin-bottom: 10px;
            margin-left: 3%;
            text-align: center;
            }

            #col2
            {
            float: left;
            width: 170px;
            background-color: #fff;
            margin-bottom: 10px;
            }

            #col3
            {
            float: left;
            width: 170px;
            margin-left: 3%;
            background-color: #fff;
            margin-bottom: 10px;
            }

            #footer
            {
            clear: both;
            height: 50px;
            background-color: #fff;
            }

            h1
            {
            margin: 0;
            padding: 5px;
            text-align: center;
            color: blue;
            }

            h2
            {
            margin-top: 0;
            padding-top: 7px;
            text-align: center
            font-size: 25pt
            color: blue;
            }

            h2, p
            {
            margin-left: 7px;
            margin-right: 7px;
            color: blue;
            }
            h3 {text-align: center
            font-size: 20pt
            color: blue;
            }

            h4 {
            onload='javascript:write_date()'
            }

            a:link {
            text-decoration: none;
            color: navy;
            }
            a:visited {
            text-decoration: none;
            color: navy;
            }
            a:active {
            text-decoration: none;
            color: navy;
            }
            a:hover {color: red;
            text-decoration: bold;
            }
            </style>
            </head>


            <body>
            <div id="gutter"></div>
            <div id="col2">
            <p><img
            src="http://home.comcast.net/~ebrown1927/Weatherford/images/elite1a.jpg"
            width="144" height="157" border="0" alt="elite physical therapy logo" /></p>
            <p>
            <a href="home.html">Home</a><br>
            <a href="dir.html">Directions</a><br>
            <a href="water_aerobics.html">Water Aerobics</a><br>
            <a href="aquatic_therapy.html">Water Therapy</a><br>
            <a href="contact.html">Contact Us</a><br>
            <a href="about.html">About Us</a><br>
            <a href="gallery.html">Our Picture Gallery</a>
            </p>
            </div>

            <div id="col1">
            <h1>Saltillo</h1>
            <h2>Elite Physical Therapy and Aquatic Center</h2>
            <p><img
            src="http://home.comcast.net/~ebrown1927/Weatherford/images/bldg1b.jpg"
            width="360" height="187" border="0" alt="physical therapy building" /></p>
            <h3>"Meeting all of your Physical Therapy<br>and Rehabilitation Needs"</h3>


            </div>

            <div id="col3">
            <img
            src="http://home.comcast.net/~ebrown1927/Weatherford/images/elite1a.jpg"
            width="144" height="157" border="0" alt="elite physical therapy
            logo"></div>


            <div id="footer"><!-- currently empty footer --></div>
            </body>
            </html>


            Edward wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: "Axel Berger" <Axel-Berger@...>
            > To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
            > Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:32 AM
            > Subject: Re: [NH] centering image for all monitors
            >
            >
            > Alex wrote:
            >
            >> Sorry for being a nasty unhelpful soandso again, but your code does
            >> not even validate and is full of mistakes. Validating tools exist
            >> and trying to make anything surrounded by unvalid code do something
            >> specific, be it sing, dance, or centre, is a mug's game.
            >>
            >> Apart from errors and typos like missing quotes there is one big
            >> mistage: You let the user load down a huge image over his slow and
            >> expensive connection and then use the browser's (any browser's) very
            >> basic and substandard mechanism to scale it down. Always scale
            >> images to the desired size first and insert them at exactly that
            >> size.
            >>
            >> Axel
            > and he also wrote:
            > One shouldn't use *any* fixed size for fonts. It is up to the user to
            > set up his browser to suit his monitor and eyesight and up to us to
            > respect these choices. This means the basic font size for normal text
            > should never be messed with and all other sizes, big, headlines, and the
            > "small print", ought to be expressed in units of em. Many sites are done
            > so badly that the only sensible choice is turning off the rendering of
            > CSS completely. Is this what we want to force our readers (and sometimes
            > voters and customers) into having to do?
            >
            > Alex,
            > Of course you are correct and I will endeavor to make the necessary changes
            > as time marches on. I really appreciate you help. I think letting the
            > viewer be the master of the fonts is a great idea. Would you give me a web
            > page site of yours so I can view the source and see exactly how you did
            > this. I can read about it all day on W3C and never really fully understand
            > what they are saying. Seeing the code on a page is very helpful and changing
            > the fonts to the ones that I like would be great. Once again let me say
            > thank you for replying to my questions. I really do appreciate all the
            > critiques, I always find them very useful and the people on this yahoo group
            > are always so good to pitch in and help.
            >
            > I will check the images, I thought I had photoshopped them down to a small
            > resolution. Very sorry about that. I will do make the resolution smaller as
            > time permits and before I put the pages up on a hosting site.
            > Ed B
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
            > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
            > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
            >
            > ***
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Greg Chapman
            Hi, ... I understand that no modern browser actually renders true XHTML and simply converts the code to HTML and renders that. In consequence, there is little
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi,

              On 08 Jan 09 19:14 MotoMania <motomania@...> said:
              > Glad that got things started. I try to stay W3C XHTML 1.1 and CSS
              > standard with any sites that I create or update.

              I understand that no modern browser actually renders true XHTML and
              simply converts the code to HTML and renders that. In consequence,
              there is little point in writing XHTML markup for web sites. These
              days XHTML is seen as a (rare?) blind alley up which the W3C
              travelled. Indeed, I believe there is now an W3C HTML v5 working group
              to update HTML for the modern environment.

              I confess that I have never bothered to check out these tales (from
              people I respect) which I read on other forums, but the snippets I do
              read elsewhere suggest that their remarks are true.

              These days my own sites use HTML4 STRICT (which obliges use of CSS).
              It certainly handles the vast majority of hassles I used to get with
              some browsers.

              Greg
            • Axel Berger
              ... A good choice. A few words about why I have chosen differently. For myself I absolutely see no point whatsoever in updating working and well set-up
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Greg Chapman wrote:
                > These days my own sites use HTML4 STRICT

                A good choice. A few words about why I have chosen differently. For
                myself I absolutely see no point whatsoever in updating working and
                well set-up software (and hardware for that matter) every five
                minutes unless it brings genuine new capabilities that I consider
                worth it. So I've made absolute backwards compatibility my second
                priority, right after validity. Unless a main part of my content
                can't be shown in an old version in principle, like images and video
                in a pure text browser, I want to make it as good as possible for
                even the oldest and most basic browsers there were and I still check
                everything in Netscape 4.8.
                Now, when there is no CSS capability, a few ALIGN="" tags and such
                can make a lot of difference. If they and CSS are both present and
                in conflict, then CSS takes precedence, so they won't hurt. For that
                I need to stick to TRANSITIONAL, but I try to go beyond strict only
                sparingly.

                Axel
              • Edward
                This does not work on my monitor. The right logo is under the left logo.The picture and statements are to far to the right. ed Blessed are they who can laugh
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  This does not work on my monitor. The right logo is under the left logo.The
                  picture and statements are to far to the right.
                  ed

                  Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves
                  for they shall never cease to be amused.
                  -- Unknown

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Don - HtmlFixIt.com" <don@...>
                  To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 2:36 PM
                  Subject: Re: [NH] centering image for all monitors


                  > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
                  > "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
                  > <html lang="en">
                  > <head>
                  > <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
                  > <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
                  > <title>Saltillo Home Page</title>
                  > <style type="text/css" media="screen">
                  > body
                  > {
                  > margin: 0;
                  > padding: 0;
                  > font-size: 90%;
                  > font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
                  > color: blue;
                  > }
                  >
                  > #gutter
                  > {
                  > float: left;
                  > width: 3%;
                  > height: 1px;
                  > }
                  >
                  > #col1
                  > {
                  > float: left;
                  > width: 800px;
                  > background-color: #fff;
                  > margin-bottom: 10px;
                  > margin-left: 3%;
                  > text-align: center;
                  > }
                  >
                  > #col2
                  > {
                  > float: left;
                  > width: 170px;
                  > background-color: #fff;
                  > margin-bottom: 10px;
                  > }
                  >
                  > #col3
                  > {
                  > float: left;
                  > width: 170px;
                  > margin-left: 3%;
                  > background-color: #fff;
                  > margin-bottom: 10px;
                  > }
                  >
                  > #footer
                  > {
                  > clear: both;
                  > height: 50px;
                  > background-color: #fff;
                  > }
                  >
                  > h1
                  > {
                  > margin: 0;
                  > padding: 5px;
                  > text-align: center;
                  > color: blue;
                  > }
                  >
                  > h2
                  > {
                  > margin-top: 0;
                  > padding-top: 7px;
                  > text-align: center
                  > font-size: 25pt
                  > color: blue;
                  > }
                  >
                  > h2, p
                  > {
                  > margin-left: 7px;
                  > margin-right: 7px;
                  > color: blue;
                  > }
                  > h3 {text-align: center
                  > font-size: 20pt
                  > color: blue;
                  > }
                  >
                  > h4 {
                  > onload='javascript:write_date()'
                  > }
                  >
                  > a:link {
                  > text-decoration: none;
                  > color: navy;
                  > }
                  > a:visited {
                  > text-decoration: none;
                  > color: navy;
                  > }
                  > a:active {
                  > text-decoration: none;
                  > color: navy;
                  > }
                  > a:hover {color: red;
                  > text-decoration: bold;
                  > }
                  > </style>
                  > </head>
                  >
                  >
                  > <body>
                  > <div id="gutter"></div>
                  > <div id="col2">
                  > <p><img
                  > src="http://home.comcast.net/~ebrown1927/Weatherford/images/elite1a.jpg"
                  > width="144" height="157" border="0" alt="elite physical therapy logo"
                  > /></p>
                  > <p>
                  > <a href="home.html">Home</a><br>
                  > <a href="dir.html">Directions</a><br>
                  > <a href="water_aerobics.html">Water Aerobics</a><br>
                  > <a href="aquatic_therapy.html">Water Therapy</a><br>
                  > <a href="contact.html">Contact Us</a><br>
                  > <a href="about.html">About Us</a><br>
                  > <a href="gallery.html">Our Picture Gallery</a>
                  > </p>
                  > </div>
                  >
                  > <div id="col1">
                  > <h1>Saltillo</h1>
                  > <h2>Elite Physical Therapy and Aquatic Center</h2>
                  > <p><img
                  > src="http://home.comcast.net/~ebrown1927/Weatherford/images/bldg1b.jpg"
                  > width="360" height="187" border="0" alt="physical therapy building" /></p>
                  > <h3>"Meeting all of your Physical Therapy<br>and Rehabilitation
                  > Needs"</h3>
                  >
                  >
                  > </div>
                  >
                  > <div id="col3">
                  > <img
                  > src="http://home.comcast.net/~ebrown1927/Weatherford/images/elite1a.jpg"
                  > width="144" height="157" border="0" alt="elite physical therapy
                  > logo"></div>
                  >
                  >
                  > <div id="footer"><!-- currently empty footer --></div>
                  > </body>
                  > </html>
                  >
                  >
                  > Edward wrote:
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ----- Original Message -----
                  >> From: "Axel Berger" <Axel-Berger@...>
                  >> To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
                  >> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 4:32 AM
                  >> Subject: Re: [NH] centering image for all monitors
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> Alex wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> Sorry for being a nasty unhelpful soandso again, but your code does
                  >>> not even validate and is full of mistakes. Validating tools exist
                  >>> and trying to make anything surrounded by unvalid code do something
                  >>> specific, be it sing, dance, or centre, is a mug's game.
                  >>>
                  >>> Apart from errors and typos like missing quotes there is one big
                  >>> mistage: You let the user load down a huge image over his slow and
                  >>> expensive connection and then use the browser's (any browser's) very
                  >>> basic and substandard mechanism to scale it down. Always scale
                  >>> images to the desired size first and insert them at exactly that
                  >>> size.
                  >>>
                  >>> Axel
                  >> and he also wrote:
                  >> One shouldn't use *any* fixed size for fonts. It is up to the user to
                  >> set up his browser to suit his monitor and eyesight and up to us to
                  >> respect these choices. This means the basic font size for normal text
                  >> should never be messed with and all other sizes, big, headlines, and the
                  >> "small print", ought to be expressed in units of em. Many sites are done
                  >> so badly that the only sensible choice is turning off the rendering of
                  >> CSS completely. Is this what we want to force our readers (and sometimes
                  >> voters and customers) into having to do?
                  >>
                  >> Alex,
                  >> Of course you are correct and I will endeavor to make the necessary
                  >> changes
                  >> as time marches on. I really appreciate you help. I think letting the
                  >> viewer be the master of the fonts is a great idea. Would you give me a
                  >> web
                  >> page site of yours so I can view the source and see exactly how you did
                  >> this. I can read about it all day on W3C and never really fully
                  >> understand
                  >> what they are saying. Seeing the code on a page is very helpful and
                  >> changing
                  >> the fonts to the ones that I like would be great. Once again let me say
                  >> thank you for replying to my questions. I really do appreciate all the
                  >> critiques, I always find them very useful and the people on this yahoo
                  >> group
                  >> are always so good to pitch in and help.
                  >>
                  >> I will check the images, I thought I had photoshopped them down to a
                  >> small
                  >> resolution. Very sorry about that. I will do make the resolution smaller
                  >> as
                  >> time permits and before I put the pages up on a hosting site.
                  >> Ed B
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> ------------------------------------
                  >>
                  >> Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
                  >> NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
                  >> NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
                  >>
                  >> ***
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Fookes Software: http://www.fookes.com/
                  > NoteTab website: http://www.notetab.com/
                  > NoteTab Discussion Lists: http://www.notetab.com/groups.php
                  >
                  > ***
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Axel Berger
                  ... There are two: http://axel.berger-odenthal.de/ http://fdp-odenthal.de/pages/Technik.shtml The first is my own and as primitive and basic as it gets. The
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Edward wrote:
                    > Would you give me a web page site of yours

                    There are two:
                    http://axel.berger-odenthal.de/
                    http://fdp-odenthal.de/pages/Technik.shtml

                    The first is my own and as primitive and basic as it gets. The
                    second is done for the local party and the page with the technical
                    details is in English (as technical documentation ought to be IMHO).
                    You'll notice I disregarded my own rule about font size and set it
                    at 75% of the browser default (but using a relative size it can
                    still be scaled). That's because the visual design is a faithful
                    copy and ripoff of other party designs, though the code is mine,
                    clean and validating.

                    The technical sample is seriously out of date by now, but the main
                    parts not changed.

                    Axel
                  • Cary
                    Basically, all modern, major browsers handle true xhtml, that is xhtml served as xhtml rather than html, except IE which will ask you to save the page as a
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Basically, all modern, major browsers handle true xhtml, that is xhtml
                      served as xhtml rather than html, except IE which will ask you to save
                      the page as a file.

                      Obviously, sites configured for access by the general public are set
                      up to serve pages as html so IE won't choke. Xhtml 1.0 is fine for
                      this purpose, but xhtml 1.1 should only be used if it is in fact going
                      to be served as xhtml.


                      --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, Greg Chapman wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi,
                      >
                      > On 08 Jan 09 19:14 MotoMania said:
                      > > Glad that got things started. I try to stay W3C XHTML 1.1 and CSS
                      > > standard with any sites that I create or update.
                      >
                      > I understand that no modern browser actually renders true XHTML and
                      > simply converts the code to HTML and renders that. In consequence,
                      > there is little point in writing XHTML markup for web sites. These
                      > days XHTML is seen as a (rare?) blind alley up which the W3C
                      > travelled. Indeed, I believe there is now an W3C HTML v5 working group
                      > to update HTML for the modern environment.
                      >
                      > I confess that I have never bothered to check out these tales (from
                      > people I respect) which I read on other forums, but the snippets I do
                      > read elsewhere suggest that their remarks are true.
                      >
                      > These days my own sites use HTML4 STRICT (which obliges use of CSS).
                      > It certainly handles the vast majority of hassles I used to get with
                      > some browsers.
                      >
                      > Greg
                      >
                    • Cary
                      Looking at the current page, the link styling should be changed so hover comes before active. a:link {text-decoration: none; color: navy;} a:visited
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Looking at the current page, the link styling should be changed so
                        hover comes before active.

                        a:link {text-decoration: none; color: navy;}
                        a:visited {text-decoration: none; color: navy;}
                        a:hover {color: red; text-decoration: bold}
                        a:active {text-decoration: none; color: navy;}
                        a.other:link {color: #99FFFF; text-decoration: none}
                        a.other:visited {color: #99FFFF; text-decoration: none}
                        a.other:hover {color: pink; text-decoration: bold}
                        a.other:active {color: red; text-decoration: none}


                        --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, "Edward" wrote:
                        >
                        > I am having trouble getting an image to center after putting a table
                        with the links ot other pages on the left side of the page...
                      • loro
                        ... Exactly my opinion. With reservations for what Cary already said, that XHTML is treated as XML if it s served with an XHTML content-type. But it can t be,
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 8, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Greg Chapman wrote:
                          >I understand that no modern browser actually renders true XHTML and
                          >simply converts the code to HTML and renders that. In consequence,
                          >there is little point in writing XHTML markup for web sites.

                          Exactly my opinion. With reservations for what Cary already said,
                          that XHTML is treated as XML if it's served with an XHTML
                          content-type. But it can't be, partly because of IE and partly
                          because many (most?) XHTML pages wouldn't display in any browser if
                          they were served with the correct content-type.

                          XML has few requirements, but one of them is that a page that isn't
                          well-formed shouldn't be displayed by the browser. All browsers
                          conform to this. Since many XHTML pages aren't as well-written as
                          their authors think when they plaster that XHTML button on, there
                          would be a lot of blank pages on the web and most authors would
                          quickly revert to HTML and the blessings of the error handling HTML
                          parsers are so richly equipped with.

                          This requirement makes me think XML isn't really suited to be used on
                          this side of the server. Generated on the server, validated and
                          foolproofed on the server, maybe. But how often does that happen? Can
                          you imagine a site of any importance to its users or to the owner
                          that goes blank until someone has found the tiny little error that
                          maybe originates deep down in some server side program?

                          Strict instead of Transitional is much more important. The fact that
                          there even exists a Transitional version of XHTML and that it's
                          widely used say everything about what the XHTML hype is about. I
                          think the expression is "blowing smoke". ;-)

                          Lotta
                        • Axel Berger
                          ... I would consider that as a huge advantage over current affairs. Now there is all kinds of junk all over the place and if it isn t displayed, people blame
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 9, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            loro wrote:
                            > there would be a lot of blank pages on the web and most
                            > authors would quickly revert to HTML and the blessings
                            > of the error handling HTML parsers are so richly equipped
                            > with.

                            I would consider that as a huge advantage over current affairs. Now
                            there is all kinds of junk all over the place and if it isn't
                            displayed, people blame their browser. More importantly and worse,
                            if you go and complain to the junk merchants, they have the gall to
                            tell you everyone else was satisfied and that it must be your fault.
                            And of course, if all browsers gave error messages instead of
                            guessed at approximate renderings our life would be easier and we'd
                            not need to employ all those extra validating tools and would not
                            get caught out by those easily overlooked little mistakes, that
                            happen not to show up when trying things out in the few browsers and
                            versions we happen to have at our disposal.

                            Life would become harder for all thise idiots out there refusing to
                            take care and not trying to do a good rather than botched job, but I
                            don't see how that would be bad.

                            Axel
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.