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Re: [NH] Strange characters...

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  • loro
    ... But you suggested Bob would use .htaccess. I d say declaring the charset is one of the most common uses people make of .htaccess. ... You are absolutely
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 9, 2008
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      Axel Berger wrote:
      > > That doesn't mean the host made that happen.
      >
      >Well, someone who has control over the server. And that usually is not
      >the customer or only to the very limited degree .htaccess allows.

      But you suggested Bob would use .htaccess. I'd say declaring the
      charset is one of the most common uses people make of .htaccess.

      >UTF-8. And I have tried this: The validator said
      >"illegal, no UTF-8" first and was satisfied when I overrode that with
      >telling it "use cp-1252".

      You are absolutely right. The W3C validator does do that now (while
      the WDG one does not). My bad.

      Lotta
    • Axel Berger
      ... We do know, Bob told us. He uses NoteTab and writes in his native Windows charset. Apart from that you re right of course, and I already said so. If Bob
      Message 2 of 28 , Nov 9, 2008
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        loro wrote:
        > This is so backwards. If Bob can use .htaccess, he should of course
        > use it to make the server send the character encoding he prefers,
        > which may very well be UTF-8 for all we know.

        We do know, Bob told us. He uses NoteTab and writes in his native
        Windows charset.
        Apart from that you're right of course, and I already said so.
        If Bob can make the server send the correct HTTP headers, that's best.
        Only his provider can tell him that. The two providers I'm using (one is
        my own choice and with the other I'm webmaster for someone else) don't,
        but at least allow me to stop them sending the wrong ones.

        > Bob, just use the entities (¹ and ²) for now and be done
        > with it.

        That is a possibility. It is the one I use on my own site for maximum
        backwards compatibility and there I declare US-ASCII in step with what
        I'm actually doing.

        For the other site I made easy maintainabilty by others the priority and
        declare cp-1252, meaning that they can just type whatever their Windows
        computer allows them and need not bother about encoding.
        Unless you want to restrict yourself to the lowest common denominator on
        ideological grounds, like I do, that's the best choice. It means in
        essence "whatever you can type and display correctly in NoteTab, the
        server and browser will accept and display correctly too."

        > You can read up about character encoding when you feel up to it.

        Bob, there really is not much to it. Most computers use a 255 character
        alphabet - I'm ignoring extensions like UTF for the moment. In all these
        the first 127 characters are identical and standardized by ASCII. The
        top 128 ones, your ä ö ü é ê € µ and so on, can be all over the place.
        This used to be more of a problem when the Macs, Ataris, Amigas DOS with
        cp-437, DOS with cp-850 and so on all had sizeable market shares. As
        long as you are using Windows and don't switch to cyrillic, greek,
        hebrew or something like that, everything you type and display will be
        encoded as cp-1252 (of which terms like AnsiNew and others are synonyms,
        but not ANSI, Latin-1 or ISO 8859-1). So if you go and tell that to the
        browsers rendering your pages, you'll be fine. If you don't, they or the
        server have to guess and may guess wrong. That's all there is to it.

        Axel
      • loro
        ... Axel, it s only the so called illegal range that s unique to the windows codepage. The rest, as the superscript characters at hand, are not. ... Trial and
        Message 3 of 28 , Nov 10, 2008
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          >We do know, Bob told us. He uses NoteTab and writes in his native
          >Windows charset.

          Axel, it's only the so called illegal range that's unique to the
          windows codepage. The rest, as the superscript characters at hand, are not.

          >If Bob can make the server send the correct HTTP headers, that's best.
          >Only his provider can tell him that.

          Trial and error works pretty well too. ;-)

          >The two providers I'm using (one is
          >my own choice and with the other I'm webmaster for someone else) don't,
          >but at least allow me to stop them sending the wrong ones.

          Do they let you use .htaccess but they don't let you use it to
          declare the character encoding? That sounds strange and unusual indeed.


          >encoded as cp-1252 (of which terms like AnsiNew and others are synonyms,
          >but not ANSI, Latin-1 or ISO 8859-1). So if you go and tell that to the
          >browsers rendering your pages, you'll be fine.

          So he will with an iso latin charset.

          I'll be quiet now. This doesn't lead anywhere and has very little to
          do with Bob's question. Again, I'm sorry for this bickering. It
          really wasn't my intention but that's how it turned out. I just
          wanted Bob to get an answer to his question.

          Lotta
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