Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [NH] Strange characters...

Expand Messages
  • loro
    ... This is so backwards. If Bob can use .htaccess, he should of course use it to make the server send the character encoding he prefers, which may very well
    Message 1 of 28 , Nov 9, 2008
      Axel Berger wrote:
      >Bob Gorman wrote:
      > > Something in the Head part of my html files?
      >
      >Yes, that too. First you need to shut up that server. You might need
      >help from your provider, but this line in .htaccess ought to be the
      >first step:
      >
      > AddDefaultCharset Off

      This is so backwards. If Bob can use .htaccess, he should of course
      use it to make the server send the character encoding he prefers,
      which may very well be UTF-8 for all we know. Why in the whole world
      not use it as it is intended instead of relying solely on a fallback
      mechanism like Meta?

      ><META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=US-ASCII">

      Except ASCII doesn't cover superscript 1 and 2, so that's hardly an
      improvement.

      Bob, just use the entities (¹ and ²) for now and be done
      with it. You can read up about character encoding when you feel up to
      it. I fear this will just confuse you and I'm sorry for my part in that.

      Lotta
    • Bob Gorman
      ... Yes, I did, & I m happy for now. ... I will. I obviously need to learn about character sets and this mysterious .htaccess, but it can wait till I get a
      Message 2 of 28 , Nov 9, 2008
        loro wrote:

        > Bob, just use the entities (¹ and ²) for now and be done
        > with it.

        Yes, I did, & I'm happy for now.

        > You can read up about character encoding when you feel up to
        > it.

        I will.
        I obviously need to learn about character sets and this mysterious
        .htaccess, but it can wait till I get a good night's sleep.

        I have 30+ web pages now and plan over time to double that, so I want to
        learn good practices now, to avoid excessive fix-up later.

        Thanks, and good night.

        Bob
      • Axel Berger
        ... Absolutely. It was way past midnight here, when I wrote that. ... Well, someone who has control over the server. And that usually is not the customer or
        Message 3 of 28 , Nov 9, 2008
          loro wrote:
          > I think you mean HTTP headers.

          Absolutely. It was way past midnight here, when I wrote that.

          > That doesn't mean the host made that happen.

          Well, someone who has control over the server. And that usually is not
          the customer or only to the very limited degree .htaccess allows.

          > Superscript 1 and 2, encoded the way they are, are not exclusive to
          > cp-1252, and that was what you were talking about. They aren't
          > "illegal", they just mean different things in ANSI and UTF-8.

          I have to admit to not being firm in UTF-8. I do know that (nearly?)
          everything that's in the upper 128 for other encodings is a two
          character sequence in UTF-8. And I have tried this: The validator said
          "illegal, no UTF-8" first and was satisfied when I overrode that with
          telling it "use cp-1252". I have not checked which characters were the
          offenders, but the ones that showed up wrong in the browser is a good
          guess IMHO.

          Axel
        • loro
          ... But you suggested Bob would use .htaccess. I d say declaring the charset is one of the most common uses people make of .htaccess. ... You are absolutely
          Message 4 of 28 , Nov 9, 2008
            Axel Berger wrote:
            > > That doesn't mean the host made that happen.
            >
            >Well, someone who has control over the server. And that usually is not
            >the customer or only to the very limited degree .htaccess allows.

            But you suggested Bob would use .htaccess. I'd say declaring the
            charset is one of the most common uses people make of .htaccess.

            >UTF-8. And I have tried this: The validator said
            >"illegal, no UTF-8" first and was satisfied when I overrode that with
            >telling it "use cp-1252".

            You are absolutely right. The W3C validator does do that now (while
            the WDG one does not). My bad.

            Lotta
          • Axel Berger
            ... We do know, Bob told us. He uses NoteTab and writes in his native Windows charset. Apart from that you re right of course, and I already said so. If Bob
            Message 5 of 28 , Nov 9, 2008
              loro wrote:
              > This is so backwards. If Bob can use .htaccess, he should of course
              > use it to make the server send the character encoding he prefers,
              > which may very well be UTF-8 for all we know.

              We do know, Bob told us. He uses NoteTab and writes in his native
              Windows charset.
              Apart from that you're right of course, and I already said so.
              If Bob can make the server send the correct HTTP headers, that's best.
              Only his provider can tell him that. The two providers I'm using (one is
              my own choice and with the other I'm webmaster for someone else) don't,
              but at least allow me to stop them sending the wrong ones.

              > Bob, just use the entities (¹ and ²) for now and be done
              > with it.

              That is a possibility. It is the one I use on my own site for maximum
              backwards compatibility and there I declare US-ASCII in step with what
              I'm actually doing.

              For the other site I made easy maintainabilty by others the priority and
              declare cp-1252, meaning that they can just type whatever their Windows
              computer allows them and need not bother about encoding.
              Unless you want to restrict yourself to the lowest common denominator on
              ideological grounds, like I do, that's the best choice. It means in
              essence "whatever you can type and display correctly in NoteTab, the
              server and browser will accept and display correctly too."

              > You can read up about character encoding when you feel up to it.

              Bob, there really is not much to it. Most computers use a 255 character
              alphabet - I'm ignoring extensions like UTF for the moment. In all these
              the first 127 characters are identical and standardized by ASCII. The
              top 128 ones, your ä ö ü é ê € µ and so on, can be all over the place.
              This used to be more of a problem when the Macs, Ataris, Amigas DOS with
              cp-437, DOS with cp-850 and so on all had sizeable market shares. As
              long as you are using Windows and don't switch to cyrillic, greek,
              hebrew or something like that, everything you type and display will be
              encoded as cp-1252 (of which terms like AnsiNew and others are synonyms,
              but not ANSI, Latin-1 or ISO 8859-1). So if you go and tell that to the
              browsers rendering your pages, you'll be fine. If you don't, they or the
              server have to guess and may guess wrong. That's all there is to it.

              Axel
            • loro
              ... Axel, it s only the so called illegal range that s unique to the windows codepage. The rest, as the superscript characters at hand, are not. ... Trial and
              Message 6 of 28 , Nov 10, 2008
                >We do know, Bob told us. He uses NoteTab and writes in his native
                >Windows charset.

                Axel, it's only the so called illegal range that's unique to the
                windows codepage. The rest, as the superscript characters at hand, are not.

                >If Bob can make the server send the correct HTTP headers, that's best.
                >Only his provider can tell him that.

                Trial and error works pretty well too. ;-)

                >The two providers I'm using (one is
                >my own choice and with the other I'm webmaster for someone else) don't,
                >but at least allow me to stop them sending the wrong ones.

                Do they let you use .htaccess but they don't let you use it to
                declare the character encoding? That sounds strange and unusual indeed.


                >encoded as cp-1252 (of which terms like AnsiNew and others are synonyms,
                >but not ANSI, Latin-1 or ISO 8859-1). So if you go and tell that to the
                >browsers rendering your pages, you'll be fine.

                So he will with an iso latin charset.

                I'll be quiet now. This doesn't lead anywhere and has very little to
                do with Bob's question. Again, I'm sorry for this bickering. It
                really wasn't my intention but that's how it turned out. I just
                wanted Bob to get an answer to his question.

                Lotta
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.