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Re: [NH] CSS "Margin" acting like "Indent"

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  • Axel Berger
    ... It is very early in the morning her and I don t have the time for your long example. Just this: Margin gives an outer margin to the element in question,
    Message 1 of 19 , May 19, 2008
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      Ray Shapp wrote:
      > Please give an example of how to use margin-left.
      > <td class="basic_summary">
      > .basic_summary {
      > color : #000000;
      > font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
      > font-size : .8em;
      > margin-left: 2%;
      > margin-right: 0%;
      > }

      It is very early in the morning her and I don't have the time for
      your long example. Just this:
      Margin gives an outer margin to the element in question, the table
      cell. What you want is a magin to the the text, i.e. an inner margin
      as seen from the cell. Try padding.

      Axel
    • loro
      ... Wrap the text in a block level element (P, DIV) and use the class with that. Or simply use padding-left for the TD if all text in that TD should be
      Message 2 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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        Ray wrote:
        >I don't comprehend what you are saying. I tried several permutations
        >of moving
        >the basic-summary class into the TD tag or changing the style sheet to use
        >indent instead of margin-left. Most of my trials failed validation
        >and none of
        >them produce the desired result.

        Wrap the text in a block level element (P, DIV) and use the class
        with that. Or simply use padding-left for the TD if all text in that
        TD should be indented.

        Lotta
      • buralex@gmail.com
        ... Hi Ray; (I m very impressed with myself . This is the first time I ve used the free GOTD copy of CSE HTML Validator. Actually its the first time I ve
        Message 3 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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          Ray Shapp <ras45@...> said on May 20, 2008 1:03 -0400 (in part):
          > Hi Marcelo,
          >
          > Thank you for your reply.
          >
          > I don't comprehend what you are saying. I tried several permutations
          > of moving
          > the basic-summary class into the TD tag or changing the style sheet to
          > use
          > indent instead of margin-left. Most of my trials failed validation and
          > none of
          > them produce the desired result.
          >
          > The HTML snippet below passes validation. The CSS snippet doesn't
          > adjust the
          > alignment of the summary whether I use "margin-left" or "indent". The
          > result
          > of using the files from which these snippets were taken is that the
          > summary is
          > displayed with no indentation of any part of the summary. The entire
          > summary
          > is displayed flush left against the original left margin.
          >
          > Please give an example of how to use margin-left.
          >
          > Thank you.
          >
          > Ray Shapp
          Hi Ray; (I'm very impressed with myself <GRIN>. This is the first time
          I've used the free GOTD copy of CSE HTML Validator. Actually its the
          first time I've used styles at all)

          indent is not a valid property. Use text-indent instead (found by
          googling CSS+indent which lead to a couple of examples)

          Your sample (with headers inserted by Notetab TEXT-->HTML, formated by
          CTL+F7 tidy.exe, a couple of tweaks suggested by the CSE-Validator and
          extra text so I could see if it actually indented)
          >>>>>>>>>>>
          <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">


          <html>
          <head><style type="text/css"> .basicSummary {text-indent:5% ; color:
          black;background-color : lightgreen; font-family : Arial,
          sans-serif; font-size : .8em; margin-left: 20%; margin-right:
          20%; }
          </style>
          <meta http-equiv="Content-Type"
          content="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
          <meta name="generator"
          content="NoteTab Pro">

          <title>*** Your Title Here ***</title>
          </head>

          <body>

          <table>
          <tr>
          <td colspan="2"></td>

          <td class="basicSummary">I don't comprehend what you are
          saying. I tried several permutations of moving
          the basic-summary class into the TD tag or changing the style sheet to use
          indent instead of margin-left. Most of my trials failed validation and
          none of
          them produce the desired result.

          The HTML snippet below passes validation. The CSS snippet doesn't adjust
          the
          alignment of the summary whether I use "margin-left" or "indent". The
          result
          of using the files from which these snippets were taken is that the
          summary is
          displayed with no indentation of any part of the summary. The entire
          summary
          is displayed flush left against the original left margin.

          Please give an example of how to use margin-left.</td>

          <td></td>
          </tr>
          </table>
          </body>
          </html>
          <<<<<<<<<<<

          Regards ... Alec -- buralex-gmail
          --



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ray Shapp
          Hi Don, Axel, Alec, Thank you all for trying to help me, but I m still at a loss. Don, I did give complete copy of the style sheet file and the HTML file in
          Message 4 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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            Hi Don, Axel, Alec,

            Thank you all for trying to help me, but I'm still at a loss.

            Don, I did give complete copy of the style sheet file and the HTML file in the
            original email. Another copy of that is included here below my signature.
            Marcelo said the fix was easy, but I don't understand how to implement what he
            suggested. Marcelo said:

            OK, that's easy to see where you went wrong. You tried to use a box
            attribute (margin) in an inline element (font). Try eliminating the
            <font> tag entirely and moving the "class" to the <td> element.

            Axel, I did try padding even before I sent my first email. The problem is that
            cellpadding applies to every cell in the table. In my case, I will be listing
            about 70 or 80 articles that appeared in a newsletter. The original
            publication date, the starting page number, the title, and the author's name
            all appear on the first line of the listing for each article. None of these
            cells should be padded. The second and third line of the listing for an
            article may or may not be present. If present, the second line contains the
            article's subtitle. If present the third line contains a summary. Both the
            second line and the third line need to be indented. The problem is that if the
            subtitle or the summary is too long, it will wrap back to the left margin. I
            want the wrapped portion of subtitle or summary to be indented as much as the
            first line of subtitle or summary.


            Example of wrong format:

            Date Pg Title Author
            Subtitle (if present)
            Summary begins indented but long line
            wraps back to left margin of Title cell.


            Example of correct format:

            Date Pg Title Author
            Subtitle (if present)
            Summary begins indented and long line
            wraps in line with same indent as subtitle and first
            line of summary.

            Alec, I also tried text-indent, but just as in your example, the indentation
            applies to the first line in the cell. All wrapped lines (both in MSIE and in
            Firefox) are flush with the left margin of the cell (same left margin as
            Title).

            I know how to fix this using an extra cell on each row of the table. I'm
            hoping to fix this using CSS and the four existing cells per row. Marcelo says
            it's easy to do. I need to see an example because all my attempts to interpret
            what he said fail.

            It's also early in the morning here (5am EDT).

            Thanks again.

            Ray Shapp

            ***C:\asterism\styles\basic.css begins on 2nd line below***

            @charset "utf-8";
            /* CSS Document */
            /* By Ray Shapp */

            .basic_headline {
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : 1.8em;
            font-weight : bold;
            }

            .basic_issue {
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            vertical-align: middle;
            line-height: 1.2em;
            margin-left: 0%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_page {
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            vertical-align: middle;
            line-height: 1.2em;
            margin-left: 2%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_title {
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            vertical-align: middle;
            line-height: 1.2em;
            font-weight : bold;
            margin-left: 0%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_author {
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            vertical-align: middle;
            line-height: 1.2em;
            margin-left: 0%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_subtitle {
            color : #dd5622;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            font-weight : bold;
            margin-left: 2%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_summary {
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            margin-left: 2%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_leading {
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .4em;
            margin-left: 0%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_body_text {
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            margin-left: 0%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_nav_text {
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            font-weight : bold;
            margin-left: 0%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }

            .basic_prototype {
            background-color : #D3D3D3;
            border-top : 1px solid #000000;
            width : 800px;
            color : #000000;
            font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
            font-size : .8em;
            vertical-align: bottom;
            font-weight : bold;
            padding : 2px 5px;
            line-height: 1.2em;
            margin-left: 0%;
            margin-right: 0%;
            }
            ***CSS style sheet ends on the line above***


            ***HTML document begins on 2nd line below***

            <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
            "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

            <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
            <head>
            <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />

            <title>Articles of Enduring Interest</title>
            <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="../styles/basic.css" />
            </head>

            <body bgcolor="#D3D3D3">
            <!--==== Program: endure.htm, Author: Ray Shapp ==========-->

            <table width="800" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" align="center"
            border="0" summary="Listing of articles">
            <tr>
            <td align="center" colspan="4"><img src="../gifs/astrline.gif"
            width="460" height="42" alt="Drawing of Observatory" /></td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="4"> </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td align="center" colspan="4"><font class="basic_headline">Articles
            of Enduring Interest</font></td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="5"> </td>
            </tr>
            <!-- Enter up to three rows of info for each article here -->

            <tr>
            <td width="70"><font class="basic_issue">Sep 2005</font></td>

            <td width="49"><font class="basic_page">Pg 3</font></td>

            <td width="529"><a
            href="../newsletter/2005-09.pdf#page=3&view=Fit"><font
            class="basic_title">Astronomical Time Scales</font></a></td>

            <td width="159"><font class="basic_author">Lew Thomas</font></td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="4">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_leading"> </font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td width="70">
            </td>

            <td width="49"><font class="basic_page">Pg 4</font></td>

            <td width="529"><a
            href="../newsletter/2005-09.pdf#page=4&view=Fit"><font
            class="basic_title">Stewart's Skybox</font></a></td>

            <td width="159"><font class="basic_author">Stewart Meyers</font></td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="2">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_subtitle">Deep Impact (Not the
            Movie)</font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="2">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_summary">Coverage of the Deep Impact mission as
            well as an overview of comets in general.</font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="4">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_leading"> </font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td width="70"><font class="basic_issue">Oct 2005</font></td>

            <td width="49"><font class="basic_page">Pg 4</font></td>

            <td width="529"><a
            href="../newsletter/2005-10.pdf#page=4&view=Fit"><font
            class="basic_title">Stewart's Skybox</font></a></td>

            <td width="159"><font class="basic_author">Stewart Meyers</font></td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="2">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_subtitle">A Possible 10</font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="2">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_summary">Background on the discovery of the
            object that would later be named Eris as well as its impact on the "Pluto as a
            planet" debate.</font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="4">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_leading"> </font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td width="70"><font class="basic_issue">Nov 2005</font></td>

            <td width="49"><font class="basic_page">Pg 1</font></td>

            <td width="529"><a
            href="../newsletter/2005-11.pdf#page=1&view=Fit"><font
            class="basic_title">Old Astrophotographers Never Die... They Just
            Redevelop</font></a></td>

            <td width="159"><font class="basic_author">Bonnie B.
            Witzgall</font></td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="4">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_leading"> </font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td width="70"><font class="basic_issue">Mar 2006</font></td>

            <td width="49"><font class="basic_page">Pg 6</font></td>

            <td width="529"><a
            href="../newsletter/2006-03.pdf#page=6&view=Fit"><font
            class="basic_title">A New Look At The Early Universe</font></a></td>

            <td width="159"><font class="basic_author">Lew Thomas</font></td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="2">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_summary">A hypothesis for negative mass moving
            backwards along the time line.</font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="4">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_leading"> </font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td width="70"><font class="basic_issue">Aug 2006</font></td>

            <td width="49"><font class="basic_page">Pg 1</font></td>

            <td width="529"><a
            href="../newsletter/2006-07.pdf#page=1&view=Fit"><font
            class="basic_title">The New Red Spot On Jupiter</font></a></td>

            <td width="159"><font class="basic_author">Clif Ashcraft</font></td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="4">
            </td>

            <td><font class="basic_leading"> </font></td>

            <td>
            </td>
            </tr>
            <!-- Prototype of three-line entry

            <tr>
            <td width="70"> <font class="basic_issue"> date </font> </td>
            <td width="49"> <font class="basic_page"> Pg # </font> </td>
            <td width="529"> <a
            href="../newsletter/2005-09.pdf#page=3&view=Fit"> <font class="basic_title">
            Main Title </font> </a> </td>
            <td width="159"> <font class="basic_author"> Author </font> </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="2"> </td>
            <td> <font class="basic_subtitle"> Subtitle </font> </td>
            <td> </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="2"> </td>
            <td> <font class="basic_summary"> Brief Summary </font> </td>
            <td> </td>
            </tr>

            <tr>
            <td colspan="4"> </td>
            <td> <font class="basic_leading">   </font> </td>
            <td> </td>
            </tr>

            -->
            </table>
            <br />
            <br />


            <table align="center" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"
            width="600" summary="Selection criteria">
            <tr align="center" valign="middle">
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            <ol>
            <li><font class="basic_body_text">The article should have
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            <li>The article should give a historical treatment of its subject
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            <li>The article should be mainly instructional.</li>

            <li style="list-style: none"><br />
            In addition:<br />
            <br />
            </li>

            <li>Articles which serve mainly to express an author's opinion
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            <li>Articles which are of an ephemeral nature will not be
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            </ol>
            The intent is to make it easy for users of the website to find
            articles that would still be considered to be of value say ten years from
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            <br />
            <br />
            </td>
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          • bruce.somers@web.de
            That s interesting: You tried to use a box attribute (margin) in an inline element (font). Try eliminating the tag entirely and moving the class to
            Message 5 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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              That's interesting:
              "You tried to use a box attribute (margin) in an inline element (font). Try eliminating the <font> tag entirely and moving the "class" to the <td> element."

              Is there a comprehensive list somewhere, of block and inline elements and what attributes apply to each?

              Bruce
            • Hugo Paulissen
              Hi All,   Would display: block; be a solution? .basic_summary { display: block; color : #000000; font-family : Arial, sans-serif; font-size : .8em;
              Message 6 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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                Hi All,
                 
                Would display: block; be a solution?

                .basic_summary {
                display: block;
                color : #000000;
                font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
                font-size : .8em;
                margin-left: 2%;
                margin-right: 0%;
                }
                 
                Regards,
                Hugo





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Bruce Meyers
                Bruce, Here is a list of the most common block elements: was not listed, but I believe it is also a block
                Message 7 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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                  Bruce,
                  Here is a list of the most common block elements:
                  <p>
                  <div>
                  <blockquote>
                  <table>
                  <br>
                  <ol> <ul> was not listed, but I believe it is also a block element
                  and the <h1> to <h6> tags
                  The block exists between the opening and closing tags.

                  A block element is one that is intended to be displayed as a distinct block of content starting and ending with a new line.

                  inline elements don't necessarily begin and end with new lines; they are contained within
                  the flow of the text. examples: <em> <span> <b> <img> <a>

                  in css, the box model involving border, margin, and padding applies to block elements
                  but not to inline elements (not a complete comprehensive explanation of all the attributes of block and inline elements - just all I know at this time)

                  Bruce Meyers


                  bruce.somers@... wrote:
                  That's interesting:
                  "You tried to use a box attribute (margin) in an inline element (font). Try eliminating the tag entirely and moving the "class" to the element."

                  Is there a comprehensive list somewhere, of block and inline elements and what attributes apply to each?

                  Bruce


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                • Axel Berger
                  ... No it won t. You re styling a specific cell with a specific class there. Any styles like {padding-left: 2%} will only apply to your CLASS= basic_summary .
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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                    Ray Shapp wrote:
                    > The problem is that cellpadding applies to every cell in the
                    > table.

                    No it won't. You're styling a specific cell with a specific class
                    there. Any styles like {padding-left: 2%} will only apply to your
                    CLASS="basic_summary".

                    I'll look at your full example later.

                    Axel
                  • Axel Berger
                    ... I d be aunable to write a single line without just such a list permanently available to refer to. Unfortunately mine s in German. It s this:
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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                      bruce.somers@... wrote:
                      > Is there a comprehensive list somewhere, of block and inline
                      > elements and what attributes apply to each?

                      I'd be aunable to write a single line without just such a list
                      permanently available to refer to. Unfortunately mine's in German.
                      It's this:
                      http://de.selfhtml.org/
                      I've just seen, there's French, Spanish and Japanese too, maybe
                      you'd like to volunteer to do the English?

                      Axel
                    • Ray Shapp
                      Hello Hugo and Bruce Meyers et al. That s it!!!! Your example works exactly as desired. It even passes the HTML validation test. I won t ask for further
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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                        Hello Hugo and Bruce Meyers et al.

                        That's it!!!!

                        Your example works exactly as desired. It even passes the HTML validation
                        test.

                        I won't ask for further modifications, however, I am a bit puzzled because
                        Marcelo advised, "Try eliminating the <font> tag entirely and moving the
                        "class" to the <td> element". Hugo's solution did not work when the class was
                        applied to the TD element, but it works fine in the font tag.

                        Bruce, your quick listing of block versus inline elements is a bonus.
                        Apparently Hugo's "display: block;" line in the CSS file is what permits the
                        "margin-left" specification to be effective.

                        Many thanks to everyone who helped.

                        Ray Shapp

                        ***CSS snippet offered by Hugo***

                        .basic_summary {
                        display: block;
                        color : #000000;
                        font-family : Arial, sans-serif;
                        font-size : .8em;
                        margin-left: 2%;
                        margin-right: 0%;
                        }

                        ***HTML snippet with Hugo's class applied to the font tag***

                        <tr>
                        <td colspan="2"></td>
                        <td><font class="basic_summary">Background on the discovery of the object that
                        would later be named Eris as well as its impact on the "Pluto as a
                        planet" debate.</font></td>
                        <td></td>
                        </tr>
                      • loro
                        ... Margin properties do apply to inline elements. They just don t do what Ray wants when used with them. http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/box.html#margin-properties
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 20, 2008
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                          Bruce wrote:
                          >That's interesting:
                          >"You tried to use a box attribute (margin) in an inline element
                          >(font). Try eliminating the <font> tag entirely and moving the
                          >"class" to the <td> element."

                          Margin properties do apply to inline elements. They just don't do
                          what Ray wants when used with them.
                          http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/box.html#margin-properties

                          >Is there a comprehensive list somewhere, of block and inline
                          >elements and what attributes apply to each?

                          The HTML 4.01 spec. In a more easy to read form here:
                          <http://www.htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/block.html>

                          Lotta
                        • sandeep syamnath
                          Hi, Please unsubscribe my id. Thanks, Sandeep
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 25, 2008
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                            Hi,
                            Please unsubscribe my id.

                            Thanks,
                            Sandeep
                          • loro
                            ... You have to get off the same way you got on, by doing it yourself. There are instructions in the footer of each post. Lotta
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 25, 2008
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                              sandeep syamnath wrote:
                              >Please unsubscribe my id.

                              You have to get off the same way you got on, by doing it yourself.
                              There are instructions in the footer of each post.

                              Lotta
                            • fw7oaks
                              ... If easier than that, there s a link unsubscribe . Click it and you are GONE.
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 25, 2008
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                                --- On Sun, 5/25/08, loro <loro-spam01-@...> wrote:


                                > You have to get off the same way you got on, by doing it yourself.

                                > There are instructions in the footer of each post.

                                If easier than that, there's a link 'unsubscribe'. Click it and you are GONE.
                              • Julie
                                To quote an old Eagles tune, they re Already gone . :)
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 25, 2008
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                                  To quote an old Eagles' tune, they're "Already gone". :)

                                  At 5/25/2008 12:27 PM, loro wrote:
                                  >sandeep syamnath wrote:
                                  > >Please unsubscribe my id.
                                  >
                                  >You have to get off the same way you got on, by doing it yourself.
                                  >There are instructions in the footer of each post.
                                  >
                                  >Lotta
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