Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [NH] Helvetica Not In Control Panel

Expand Messages
  • Ray Shapp
    Hi Greg and Lotta,
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 28, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Greg and Lotta,

      <<I'd say 'Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif' would be better >>

      I'm beginning to incorporate this spec in all new and updated pages.

      Thanks again for the help.

      Ray Shapp
    • Marcelo de Castro Bastos
      ... I would add an extra piece of info regarding the above link: A large portion of Windows machines (mostly those with Microsoft Office installed) have a font
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 29, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Interviewed by CNN on 28/1/2008 22:30, loro told the world:
        >
        > Ray, you may also want to read this. A couple of years old, so things
        > may have changed.
        > http://realworldstyle.com/fonts.html
        >
        >

        I would add an extra piece of info regarding the above link:

        A large portion of Windows machines (mostly those with Microsoft Office
        installed) have a font called "Lucida Sans Unicode" that's almost
        identical to realworldstyle's first choice for Macs, Lucida Grande.
        Besides the consistency between Mac, Windows and Unix, you have the
        bonus of putting as first-choice a font with reasonably good Unicode
        coverage.

        So, I suggest amending realworldstyle's suggested list this way:

        font-family: 'Lucida Grande', 'Lucida Sans Unicode', Verdana, Geneva,
        Lucida, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;

        Regarding the other fonts... the author mentions that Geneva is
        "preferred" to Arial and Helvetica, but doesn't explain his reasoning.
        Might be something related to bad Arial and Helvetica fonts in old Macs,
        or something. I don't know.

        I like the Lucida fonts; they are generally very legible and
        well-designed. "Lucida Console," for instance, is my preferred
        monospaced font, because it manages to look good while not having too
        much of a "typewriter" look.

        Verdana is somewhat of a controversial choice. While it looks very crisp
        on screen (it was designed for screens, like its companion, the serif
        font "Georgia"), it has a very large x-height that looks odd if you mix
        it with other fonts -- Verdana typically "looks" one or two points
        larger than other fonts. Also, because of that, a page rendered in
        Verdana might end up looking quite different from a page rendered in
        Lucida Sans, Arial, or Helvetica -- different BEYOND the normal expected
        difference in fonts. Look at this page, which explains better the issues:

        http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html

        There are other fonts that might be considered as valid options. I don't
        remember my reasoning right now, but some time ago I added "Trebuchet
        MS" to my sans-serif alternates list. I think it had something to do
        with having about the same metrics as Arial, but looking better.

        Windows Vista and Office 2007 come with a new set of fonts that might be
        better choices in some circumstances.

        Linux machines are a harder problem; the font mix is hardly
        standardized, and some distros (mostly old ones) suffer from a bad Arial
        clone. So it might be useful to add a common Linux font, like Bitstream
        Vera Sans, to the list.




        -=-=-
        A critic is a man who leaves no turn unstoned.
        * TagZilla 0.066 on Seamonkey 1.1.7
      • Marcelo de Castro Bastos
        The update pack to Notetab Pro 5.6 has been available for a few days now. Just open Help/Check for Updates menu and get it. The main Notetab page still
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 29, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          The update pack to Notetab Pro 5.6 has been available for a few days
          now. Just open "Help/Check for Updates" menu and get it.

          The main Notetab page still mentions only the 5.5 version, though.

          Marcelo

          -=-=-
          Spell chequers dew knot work write.
          * TagZilla 0.066 on Seamonkey 1.1.7
        • sisterscape
          In addition to font choice, there is the issue of font sizing. I found these two links very helpful in sorting things out:
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 29, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            In addition to font choice, there is the issue of font sizing. I found
            these two links very helpful in sorting things out:

            http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/box_lesson/font/index.html#screens

            http://www.thenoodleincident.com/tutorials/typography/index.html

            In addition, I started a thread over at Sitepoint on this very issue.
            It includes feedback from Jeffrey Zeldman and Eric Meyers concerning
            the font sizing practices on the ALA site (which suffers from the sub
            1em glitch mentioned by Owen Briggs):

            http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=309991




            ____________________________________________________________________________________
            Looking for last minute shopping deals?
            Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping
          • Ray Shapp
            Hi Marcelo and sister Many thanks for your comprehensive answers. Ray Shapp
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 30, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Hi Marcelo and sister

              Many thanks for your comprehensive answers.

              Ray Shapp
            • Axel Berger
              ... Two additions perhaps: If your layout gets more refined, don t forget to test the fallbacks too. And remember that since time immemorial all browsers offer
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 30, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Ray Shapp wrote:
                > Many thanks for your comprehensive answers.

                Two additions perhaps:
                If your layout gets more refined, don't forget to test the fallbacks
                too.

                And remember that since time immemorial all browsers offer the settings
                "ignore font styles and sizes", "ignore colours", and "use only my
                preffered font size", which is how three out of four of my browsers are
                set up. One of the three also ignores all CSS and renders the pure HTML,
                while all of them ignore scripts unless explicitly allowed for the site,
                which I am much less likely to do than just leave in disgust.
                Any well made sites must work with these limitations, they need not be
                especially beautiful that way, but they have to be useable.

                Axel
              • Ray Shapp
                Hi Axel,
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 1, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Axel,

                  <<since time immemorial all browsers offer the settings
                  "ignore font styles and sizes", "ignore colours", and "use only my
                  preffered font size",>>

                  Yes, two of my four PCs ignore all the best efforts of the web designers.


                  Thanks for mentioning it.

                  Ray Shapp
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.