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ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9

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  • WV-Mike
    Greetings, In FF, I cannot get the following link to find the target - although it gets close...
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
    • 0 Attachment
      Greetings,

      In FF, I cannot get the following link to "find" the target - although it
      gets close...
      http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/index.php#ert07CA_D19-2
      0_wk4_sat-sun32.jpg

      Works in EI 6 and Opera 9.24

      The link is also here:
      http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/monday.php
      The link text is "test" above the first image.

      Anyone else seeing this behavior in FF?
      Is my mark-up the problem?

      Thanks,
      -Mike
    • Axel Berger
      ... I don t see what you mean. Firefox 1.5.0.12 and Opera 9.24 do exactly the same thing. But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to use an ID as
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
      • 0 Attachment
        WV-Mike wrote:
        > In FF, I cannot get the following link to "find" the target

        I don't see what you mean. Firefox 1.5.0.12 and Opera 9.24 do exactly
        the same thing. But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
        use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
        reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.

        N.B: Your page is terrible with graphics turned off and there are no ALT
        tags. I get 28 validation errors and 3 warnings.
        I highly recommend the Firefox extension HTML validator 0.8.3.9 (0.8.4.0
        and up doesn't run in W98SE). It used to be a bore to have to call up
        the W3C's validadation site, no longer necessary now.

        Axel
      • WV-Mike
        ... I have had the FF behavior verified by others but not the Opera behavior. Opera Works fine for me. So does IE. ... I just switched from name to ID. Back
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
        • 0 Attachment
          At 11:33 AM 11/7/2007 , Axel Berger wrote:
          >I don't see what you mean. Firefox 1.5.0.12 and Opera 9.24 do exactly
          >the same thing.

          I have had the FF behavior verified by others but not the Opera behavior.
          Opera Works fine for me.
          So does IE.

          >But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
          >use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
          >reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.

          I just switched from name to ID.
          Back and forth...

          >N.B: Your page is terrible with graphics turned off and there are no ALT tags.

          At the risk of being callous and politically incorrect I am not to
          concerned about the missing ALT tags.
          I consider my comments, off site links and quotes the ALT for the images.

          >I get 28 validation errors and 3 warnings.
          >I highly recommend the Firefox extension HTML validator 0.8.3.9 (0.8.4.0
          >and up doesn't run in W98SE). It used to be a bore to have to call up
          >the W3C's validadation site, no longer necessary now.

          Below is the reply I made previously to another list concerning validation
          as well as missing height declarations.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          Greetings,

          When I run Tidy, I get no errors reported.
          I think a lot of the errors reported from the link above are related to the
          menu includes:
          http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/navigation.php
          http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/bot_nav.php

          I did find a couple of open tags and fixed them, but as far as the rest of
          the errors, I am at a loss to understand them and cannot find them in the
          mark-up.

          When I check just the page with fire bug I get:
          Result: 0 errors / 3 warnings

          *line 147 column 37 - Warning: <img> element not empty or not closed
          *line 154 column 59 - Warning: <img> element not empty or not closed
          line 131 column 1 - Warning: <li> anchor "currentpage" already defined
          Info: Doctype given is "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
          Info: Document content looks like XHTML 1.0 Transitional

          * I do not see what is being referred to here.


          When validated with http://validator.w3.org/ I get this mess:
          The following missing or conflicting information caused the validator to
          perform guesswork prior to validation. If the guess or fallback is
          incorrect, it may make validation results entirely incoherent. It is highly
          recommended to check these potential issues, and, if necessary, fix them
          and re-validate the document.

          1.

          Warning No Character Encoding Found! Falling back to UTF-8.

          None of the standards sources gave any information on the character
          encoding labeling for this document. Without encoding information it is
          impossible to reliably validate the document. As a fallback solution, the
          "UTF-8" encoding was used to read the content and attempt to perform the
          validation, but this is likely to fail for all non-trivial documents.

          The sources used to find encoding information include:
          * The HTTP Content-Type field.
          * The XML Declaration.
          * The HTML "META" element.

          The algorithm defined in Appendix F of the XML 1.0 Recommendation
          was also used, without success.

          Since none of these sources yielded any usable information, reliable
          validation of this document is not possible. Sorry. Please make sure you
          specify the character encoding in use.

          Specifying a character encoding is typically done by the web server
          configuration, by the scripts that put together pages, or inside the
          document itself. IANA maintains the list of official names for character
          encodings (called charsets in this context). You can choose from a number
          of encodings, though we recommend UTF-8 as particularly useful.

          The W3C I18N Activity has collected a few tips on how to declare the
          encoding of a Web document.

          To quickly check whether the document would validate after
          addressing the missing character encoding information, you can use the
          "Encoding" form control earlier in the page to force an encoding override
          to take effect. "iso-8859-1" (Western Europe and North America) and "utf-8"
          (Universal, but not commonly used in legacy documents) are common encodings
          if you are not sure what encoding to choose.
          2.

          Warning Unable to Determine Parse Mode!

          The validator can process documents either as XML (for document
          types such as XHTML, SVG, etc.) or SGML (for HTML 4.01 and prior versions).
          For this document, the information available was not sufficient to
          determine the parsing mode unambiguously, because:
          * the MIME Media Type (text/html) can be used for XML or SGML
          document types
          * No known Document Type could be detected
          * No XML declaration (e.g <?xml version="1.0"?>) could be found
          at the beginning of the document.

          As a default, the validator is falling back to SGML mode.
          3.

          Warning No DOCTYPE found, and unknown root element. Aborting validation.

          The DOCTYPE Declaration was not recognized or is missing. This
          probably means that the Formal Public Identifier contains a spelling error,
          or that the Declaration is not using correct syntax, or that your document
          is not using a DOCTYPE Declaration.

          Without a DOCTYPE Declaration it is not possible to check the
          validity of your document. Since the document does not start with the root
          <html> element, automatic fallback to an HTML document type was not
          performed, and most of the validation process was aborted: only basic
          markup syntax was checked.

          Learn how to add a doctype to your document from our FAQ, or use the
          validator's Document Type option to validate your document against a
          specific Document Type.

          ? Top
          Validation Output: 10 Errors

          1. Error Line 2, Column 0: no document type declaration; will parse
          without validation.

          <p style="text-align: center;margin-bottom:-15px;"><strong>ERT
          2007<br /> ~ Cali

          ?

          The document type could not be determined, because the document had
          no correct DOCTYPE declaration. The document does not look like HTML,
          therefore automatic fallback could not be performed, and the document was
          only checked against basic markup syntax.

          Learn how to add a doctype to your document from our FAQ, or use the
          validator's Document Type option to validate your document against a
          specific Document Type.
          2. Warning Line 2, Column 71: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG YES.

          …ter;margin-bottom:-15px;"><strong>ERT 2007<br /> ~ California ~
          Week 4</strong></p>

          ?

          The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
          ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
          '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
          browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
          Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
          and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
          3. Error Line 3, Column 17: document type does not allow element "UL" here.

          <ul id="navlist1">

          ?

          The element named above was found in a context where it is not
          allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
          as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
          two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

          One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
          documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
          can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
          tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
          cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
          of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
          reported error).
          4. Warning Line 5, Column 65: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG YES.

          …monday.php'><strong>M</strong>onday - October 08<br /></a></li>

          ?

          The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
          ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
          '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
          browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
          Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
          and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
          5. Warning Line 14, Column 86: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG
          YES.

          …ndex.php'><strong>W</strong>eek 3<br /></a></li>

          ?

          The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
          ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
          '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
          browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
          Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
          and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
          6. Error Line 19, Column 108: document type does not allow element
          "DIV" here.

          …; color:#000;background:transparent;">

          ?

          The element named above was found in a context where it is not
          allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
          as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
          two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

          One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
          documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
          can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
          tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
          cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
          of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
          reported error).
          7. Warning Line 22, Column 93: cannot generate system identifier for
          general entity "nbsp".

          …e="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br /

          ?

          An entity reference was found in the document, but there is no
          reference by that name defined. Often this is caused by misspelling the
          reference name, unencoded ampersands, or by leaving off the trailing
          semicolon (;). The most common cause of this error is unencoded ampersands
          in URLs as described by the WDG in "Ampersands in URLs".

          Entity references start with an ampersand (&) and end with a
          semicolon (;). If you want to use a literal ampersand in your document you
          must encode it as "&" (even inside URLs!). Be careful to end entity
          references with a semicolon or your entity reference may get interpreted in
          connection with the following text. Also keep in mind that named entity
          references are case-sensitive; &Aelig; and æ are different characters.

          If this error appears in some markup generated by PHP's session
          handling code, this article has explanations and solutions to your problem.

          Note that in most documents, errors related to entity references
          will trigger up to 5 separate messages from the Validator. Usually these
          will all disappear when the original problem is fixed.
          8. Error Line 22, Column 93: general entity "nbsp" not defined and no
          default entity.

          …e="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br /

          ?

          This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
          reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
          the previous message for further details.
          9. Error Line 22, Column 97: reference to entity "nbsp" for which no
          system identifier could be generated.

          …ikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br /> th

          ?

          This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
          reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
          the previous message for further details.
          10. Info Line 22, Column 92: entity was defined here.

          …le="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br

          11. Warning Line 22, Column 100: cannot generate system identifier for
          general entity "gt".

          …Pedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br /> the f

          ?

          An entity reference was found in the document, but there is no
          reference by that name defined. Often this is caused by misspelling the
          reference name, unencoded ampersands, or by leaving off the trailing
          semicolon (;). The most common cause of this error is unencoded ampersands
          in URLs as described by the WDG in "Ampersands in URLs".

          Entity references start with an ampersand (&) and end with a
          semicolon (;). If you want to use a literal ampersand in your document you
          must encode it as "&" (even inside URLs!). Be careful to end entity
          references with a semicolon or your entity reference may get interpreted in
          connection with the following text. Also keep in mind that named entity
          references are case-sensitive; &Aelig; and æ are different characters.

          If this error appears in some markup generated by PHP's session
          handling code, this article has explanations and solutions to your problem.

          Note that in most documents, errors related to entity references
          will trigger up to 5 separate messages from the Validator. Usually these
          will all disappear when the original problem is fixed.
          12. Error Line 22, Column 100: general entity "gt" not defined and no
          default entity.

          …Pedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br /> the f

          ?

          This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
          reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
          the previous message for further details.
          13. Error Line 22, Column 102: reference to entity "gt" for which no
          system identifier could be generated.

          …dia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br
          /> the fre

          ?

          This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
          reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
          the previous message for further details.
          14. Info Line 22, Column 99: entity was defined here.

          …iPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br /> the

          15. Warning Line 22, Column 117: NET-enabling start-tag requires
          SHORTTAG YES.

          …ncyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br /> the free
          encyclopedia

          ?

          The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
          ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
          '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
          browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
          Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
          and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
          16. Warning Line 22, Column 132: NET-enabling start-tag requires
          SHORTTAG YES.

          …sp;=>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br /> the free encyclopedia </a>

          ?

          The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
          ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
          '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
          browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
          Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
          and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
          17. Error Line 26, Column 105: document type does not allow element
          "DIV" here.

          …; color:#000;background:transparent;">

          ?

          The element named above was found in a context where it is not
          allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
          as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
          two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

          One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
          documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
          can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
          tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
          cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
          of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
          reported error).
          18. Error Line 29, Column 119: reference to entity "nbsp" for which no
          system identifier could be generated.

          …ikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br
          />WikiPedia<…

          ?

          This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
          reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
          the previous message for further details.
          19. Info Line 22, Column 92: entity was defined here.

          …le="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br

          20. Error Line 29, Column 124: reference to entity "gt" for which no
          system identifier could be generated.

          …dia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br
          />WikiPedia</a>

          ?

          This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
          reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
          the previous message for further details.
          21. Info Line 22, Column 99: entity was defined here.

          …iPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
          />WikiPedia<br /> the

          22. Warning Line 29, Column 146: NET-enabling start-tag requires
          SHORTTAG YES.

          …edia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br />WikiPedia</a> ?

          The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
          ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
          '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
          browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
          Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
          and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
          At 11:21 AM 11/7/2007 , Ian Leckie wrote:
          >On Nov 7, 2007, at Wed, Nov 7 - 9:55AM, Mike Breiding wrote:
          >
          > > In FF, I cannot get the following link to "find" the target -
          > > although it
          > > gets close...
          > > http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/
          > > index.php#ert07CA_D19-2
          > > 0_wk4_sat-sun32.jpg
          > >
          > > Works in EI 6 and Opera 9.24
          >
          >You don't have heights and widths set on your images. It looks like
          >Firefox scrolls to the correct spot initially, but then the layout of
          >the page changes as all of the images draw in. If you reload the page
          >with all of the images in your cache, it jumps to the correct spot.
          >Set all of your heights and widths and I bet it will start working.

          This *may* be it.
          I filled in the missing heights and tried it.
          FF jumps to the ID immediately but then scrolls back up as the images are read.
          I don't think I missed any heights.

          With the cache cleared IE jumps to the ID and stays put as all the images load.
          Opera opens to the top of the page and then jumps to the ID.

          Freaky...

          -Mike
        • Corl DeLuna
          Hi Mike, I use both name and ID:
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Mike,

            I use both name and ID:

            <a href="#a1"><a name="a1" id="a1"></a> <!-- match anchor link name --></a>

            <a name="a1" id="a1"></a> <!-- match anchor link name -->

            Plus, Just so you don't spin your wheels in the sand too much trying to
            please every browser out there, take a look at these browser stats:
            http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=6
            <http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=6&qpmr=55&qpdt=1&qpct=3&q
            pcal=1&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=105>
            &qpmr=55&qpdt=1&qpct=3&qpcal=1&qptimeframe=M&qpsp=105

            Happy Road Trippin',
            Corl

            _____

            From: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-html@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of WV-Mike
            Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:18 AM
            To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [NH] ID/Target # => will not work in FF 2.0.9



            At 11:33 AM 11/7/2007 , Axel Berger wrote:
            >I don't see what you mean. Firefox 1.5.0.12 and Opera 9.24 do exactly
            >the same thing.

            I have had the FF behavior verified by others but not the Opera behavior.
            Opera Works fine for me.
            So does IE.

            >But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
            >use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
            >reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.

            I just switched from name to ID.
            Back and forth...

            >N.B: Your page is terrible with graphics turned off and there are no ALT
            tags.

            At the risk of being callous and politically incorrect I am not to
            concerned about the missing ALT tags.
            I consider my comments, off site links and quotes the ALT for the images.

            >I get 28 validation errors and 3 warnings.
            >I highly recommend the Firefox extension HTML validator 0.8.3.9 (0.8.4.0
            >and up doesn't run in W98SE). It used to be a bore to have to call up
            >the W3C's validadation site, no longer necessary now.

            Below is the reply I made previously to another list concerning validation
            as well as missing height declarations.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            Greetings,

            When I run Tidy, I get no errors reported.
            I think a lot of the errors reported from the link above are related to the
            menu includes:
            http://epicroadtrip
            <http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/navigation.php>
            s.us/2007/summer/california/week4/navigation.php
            http://epicroadtrip
            <http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/bot_nav.php>
            s.us/2007/summer/california/week4/bot_nav.php

            I did find a couple of open tags and fixed them, but as far as the rest of
            the errors, I am at a loss to understand them and cannot find them in the
            mark-up.

            When I check just the page with fire bug I get:
            Result: 0 errors / 3 warnings

            *line 147 column 37 - Warning: <img> element not empty or not closed
            *line 154 column 59 - Warning: <img> element not empty or not closed
            line 131 column 1 - Warning: <li> anchor "currentpage" already defined
            Info: Doctype given is "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
            Info: Document content looks like XHTML 1.0 Transitional

            * I do not see what is being referred to here.

            When validated with http://validator. <http://validator.w3.org/> w3.org/ I
            get this mess:
            The following missing or conflicting information caused the validator to
            perform guesswork prior to validation. If the guess or fallback is
            incorrect, it may make validation results entirely incoherent. It is highly
            recommended to check these potential issues, and, if necessary, fix them
            and re-validate the document.

            1.

            Warning No Character Encoding Found! Falling back to UTF-8.

            None of the standards sources gave any information on the character
            encoding labeling for this document. Without encoding information it is
            impossible to reliably validate the document. As a fallback solution, the
            "UTF-8" encoding was used to read the content and attempt to perform the
            validation, but this is likely to fail for all non-trivial documents.

            The sources used to find encoding information include:
            * The HTTP Content-Type field.
            * The XML Declaration.
            * The HTML "META" element.

            The algorithm defined in Appendix F of the XML 1.0 Recommendation
            was also used, without success.

            Since none of these sources yielded any usable information, reliable
            validation of this document is not possible. Sorry. Please make sure you
            specify the character encoding in use.

            Specifying a character encoding is typically done by the web server
            configuration, by the scripts that put together pages, or inside the
            document itself. IANA maintains the list of official names for character
            encodings (called charsets in this context). You can choose from a number
            of encodings, though we recommend UTF-8 as particularly useful.

            The W3C I18N Activity has collected a few tips on how to declare the
            encoding of a Web document.

            To quickly check whether the document would validate after
            addressing the missing character encoding information, you can use the
            "Encoding" form control earlier in the page to force an encoding override
            to take effect. "iso-8859-1" (Western Europe and North America) and "utf-8"
            (Universal, but not commonly used in legacy documents) are common encodings
            if you are not sure what encoding to choose.
            2.

            Warning Unable to Determine Parse Mode!

            The validator can process documents either as XML (for document
            types such as XHTML, SVG, etc.) or SGML (for HTML 4.01 and prior versions).
            For this document, the information available was not sufficient to
            determine the parsing mode unambiguously, because:
            * the MIME Media Type (text/html) can be used for XML or SGML
            document types
            * No known Document Type could be detected
            * No XML declaration (e.g <?xml version="1.0"?>) could be found
            at the beginning of the document.

            As a default, the validator is falling back to SGML mode.
            3.

            Warning No DOCTYPE found, and unknown root element. Aborting validation.

            The DOCTYPE Declaration was not recognized or is missing. This
            probably means that the Formal Public Identifier contains a spelling error,
            or that the Declaration is not using correct syntax, or that your document
            is not using a DOCTYPE Declaration.

            Without a DOCTYPE Declaration it is not possible to check the
            validity of your document. Since the document does not start with the root
            <html> element, automatic fallback to an HTML document type was not
            performed, and most of the validation process was aborted: only basic
            markup syntax was checked.

            Learn how to add a doctype to your document from our FAQ, or use the
            validator's Document Type option to validate your document against a
            specific Document Type.

            ? Top
            Validation Output: 10 Errors

            1. Error Line 2, Column 0: no document type declaration; will parse
            without validation.

            <p style="text-align: center;margin-bottom:-15px;"><strong>ERT
            2007<br /> ~ Cali

            ?

            The document type could not be determined, because the document had
            no correct DOCTYPE declaration. The document does not look like HTML,
            therefore automatic fallback could not be performed, and the document was
            only checked against basic markup syntax.

            Learn how to add a doctype to your document from our FAQ, or use the
            validator's Document Type option to validate your document against a
            specific Document Type.
            2. Warning Line 2, Column 71: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG YES.

            .ter;margin-bottom:-15px;"><strong>ERT 2007<br /> ~ California ~
            Week 4</strong></p>

            ?

            The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
            ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
            '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
            browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
            Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
            and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
            3. Error Line 3, Column 17: document type does not allow element "UL" here.

            <ul id="navlist1">

            ?

            The element named above was found in a context where it is not
            allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
            as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
            two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

            One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
            documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
            can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
            tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
            cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
            of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
            reported error).
            4. Warning Line 5, Column 65: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG YES.

            .monday.php'><strong>M</strong>onday - October 08<br /></a></li>

            ?

            The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
            ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
            '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
            browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
            Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
            and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
            5. Warning Line 14, Column 86: NET-enabling start-tag requires SHORTTAG
            YES.

            .ndex.php'><strong>W</strong>eek 3<br /></a></li>

            ?

            The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
            ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
            '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
            browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
            Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
            and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
            6. Error Line 19, Column 108: document type does not allow element
            "DIV" here.

            .; color:#000;background:transparent;">

            ?

            The element named above was found in a context where it is not
            allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
            as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
            two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

            One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
            documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
            can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
            tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
            cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
            of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
            reported error).
            7. Warning Line 22, Column 93: cannot generate system identifier for
            general entity "nbsp".

            .e="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br /

            ?

            An entity reference was found in the document, but there is no
            reference by that name defined. Often this is caused by misspelling the
            reference name, unencoded ampersands, or by leaving off the trailing
            semicolon (;). The most common cause of this error is unencoded ampersands
            in URLs as described by the WDG in "Ampersands in URLs".

            Entity references start with an ampersand (&) and end with a
            semicolon (;). If you want to use a literal ampersand in your document you
            must encode it as "&" (even inside URLs!). Be careful to end entity
            references with a semicolon or your entity reference may get interpreted in
            connection with the following text. Also keep in mind that named entity
            references are case-sensitive; &Aelig; and æ are different characters.

            If this error appears in some markup generated by PHP's session
            handling code, this article has explanations and solutions to your problem.

            Note that in most documents, errors related to entity references
            will trigger up to 5 separate messages from the Validator. Usually these
            will all disappear when the original problem is fixed.
            8. Error Line 22, Column 93: general entity "nbsp" not defined and no
            default entity.

            .e="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br /

            ?

            This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
            reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
            the previous message for further details.
            9. Error Line 22, Column 97: reference to entity "nbsp" for which no
            system identifier could be generated.

            .ikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br /> th

            ?

            This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
            reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
            the previous message for further details.
            10. Info Line 22, Column 92: entity was defined here.

            .le="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br

            11. Warning Line 22, Column 100: cannot generate system identifier for
            general entity "gt".

            .Pedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br /> the f

            ?

            An entity reference was found in the document, but there is no
            reference by that name defined. Often this is caused by misspelling the
            reference name, unencoded ampersands, or by leaving off the trailing
            semicolon (;). The most common cause of this error is unencoded ampersands
            in URLs as described by the WDG in "Ampersands in URLs".

            Entity references start with an ampersand (&) and end with a
            semicolon (;). If you want to use a literal ampersand in your document you
            must encode it as "&" (even inside URLs!). Be careful to end entity
            references with a semicolon or your entity reference may get interpreted in
            connection with the following text. Also keep in mind that named entity
            references are case-sensitive; &Aelig; and æ are different characters.

            If this error appears in some markup generated by PHP's session
            handling code, this article has explanations and solutions to your problem.

            Note that in most documents, errors related to entity references
            will trigger up to 5 separate messages from the Validator. Usually these
            will all disappear when the original problem is fixed.
            12. Error Line 22, Column 100: general entity "gt" not defined and no
            default entity.

            .Pedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br /> the f

            ?

            This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
            reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
            the previous message for further details.
            13. Error Line 22, Column 102: reference to entity "gt" for which no
            system identifier could be generated.

            .dia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br
            /> the fre

            ?

            This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
            reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
            the previous message for further details.
            14. Info Line 22, Column 99: entity was defined here.

            .iPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br /> the

            15. Warning Line 22, Column 117: NET-enabling start-tag requires
            SHORTTAG YES.

            .ncyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br /> the free
            encyclopedia

            ?

            The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
            ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
            '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
            browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
            Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
            and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
            16. Warning Line 22, Column 132: NET-enabling start-tag requires
            SHORTTAG YES.

            .sp;=>OFF SITE"><br />WikiPedia<br /> the free encyclopedia </a>

            ?

            The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
            ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
            '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
            browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
            Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
            and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.
            17. Error Line 26, Column 105: document type does not allow element
            "DIV" here.

            .; color:#000;background:transparent;">

            ?

            The element named above was found in a context where it is not
            allowed. This could mean that you have incorrectly nested elements -- such
            as a "style" element in the "body" section instead of inside "head" -- or
            two elements that overlap (which is not allowed).

            One common cause for this error is the use of XHTML syntax in HTML
            documents. Due to HTML's rules of implicitly closed elements, this error
            can create cascading effects. For instance, using XHTML's "self-closing"
            tags for "meta" and "link" in the "head" section of a HTML document may
            cause the parser to infer the end of the "head" section and the beginning
            of the "body" section (where "link" and "meta" are not allowed; hence the
            reported error).
            18. Error Line 29, Column 119: reference to entity "nbsp" for which no
            system identifier could be generated.

            .ikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br
            />WikiPedia<.

            ?

            This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
            reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
            the previous message for further details.
            19. Info Line 22, Column 92: entity was defined here.

            .le="WikiPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br

            20. Error Line 29, Column 124: reference to entity "gt" for which no
            system identifier could be generated.

            .dia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br
            />WikiPedia</a>

            ?

            This is usually a cascading error caused by a an undefined entity
            reference or use of an unencoded ampersand (&) in an URL or body text. See
            the previous message for further details.
            21. Info Line 22, Column 99: entity was defined here.

            .iPedia, the free encyclopedia  =>OFF SITE"><br
            />WikiPedia<br /> the

            22. Warning Line 29, Column 146: NET-enabling start-tag requires
            SHORTTAG YES.

            .edia  =>OFF SITE">Support<br />WikiPedia</a> ?

            The sequence <FOO /> can be interpreted in at least two different
            ways, depending on the DOCTYPE of the document. For HMTL 4.01 Strict, the
            '/' terminates the tag <FOO (with an implied '>'). However, since many
            browsers don't interpret it this way, even in the presence of an HMTL 4.01
            Strict DOCTYPE, it is best to avoid it completely in pure HTML documents
            and reserve its use solely for those written in XHTML.

            ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
            At 11:21 AM 11/7/2007 , Ian Leckie wrote:
            >On Nov 7, 2007, at Wed, Nov 7 - 9:55AM, Mike Breiding wrote:
            >
            > > In FF, I cannot get the following link to "find" the target -
            > > although it
            > > gets close...
            > > http://epicroadtrip
            <http://epicroadtrips.us/2007/summer/california/week4/>
            s.us/2007/summer/california/week4/
            > > index.php#ert07CA_D19-2
            > > 0_wk4_sat-sun32.jpg
            > >
            > > Works in EI 6 and Opera 9.24
            >
            >You don't have heights and widths set on your images. It looks like
            >Firefox scrolls to the correct spot initially, but then the layout of
            >the page changes as all of the images draw in. If you reload the page
            >with all of the images in your cache, it jumps to the correct spot.
            >Set all of your heights and widths and I bet it will start working.

            This *may* be it.
            I filled in the missing heights and tried it.
            FF jumps to the ID immediately but then scrolls back up as the images are
            read.
            I don't think I missed any heights.

            With the cache cleared IE jumps to the ID and stays put as all the images
            load.
            Opera opens to the top of the page and then jumps to the ID.

            Freaky...

            -Mike






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • loro
            ... That can t be right. IE has been able to use an id as an anchor since IE4 IIRC. Netscape 4 - that s another cup of tea. Mike, I see no problem with your
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
            • 0 Attachment
              Axel Berger wrote:
              >But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
              >use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
              >reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.

              That can't be right. IE has been able to use an id as an anchor since
              IE4 IIRC. Netscape 4 - that's another cup of tea.

              Mike, I see no problem with your link in FF either.

              Lotta
            • WV-Mike
              ... Weird. I must have some gremlins in my connection! Thanks, -Mike
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 7, 2007
              • 0 Attachment
                At 07:22 PM 11/7/2007 , you wrote:

                >Axel Berger wrote:
                > >But neither Netscape 4.8 nor IE 5.5 seem to be able to
                > >use an ID as anchor, which is why I shall continue to stick to good old
                > >reliable a name="" for the foreseeable.
                >
                >That can't be right. IE has been able to use an id as an anchor since
                >IE4 IIRC. Netscape 4 - that's another cup of tea.
                >
                >Mike, I see no problem with your link in FF either.
                >
                >Lotta


                Weird. I must have some gremlins in my connection!

                Thanks,
                -Mike
              • Axel Berger
                ... Both FF and Opera do the same thing here, they choose the anchor and place it right at the top of the window. As you have anchored the description beneath
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 8, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  WV-Mike wrote:
                  > Weird. I must have some gremlins in my connection!

                  Both FF and Opera do the same thing here, they choose the anchor and
                  place it right at the top of the window. As you have anchored the
                  description beneath the image that image is not shown. Are you sure
                  that's what you want?

                  Today my IE 5.5 works as advertised, you're right loro. But it *only*
                  does so the first time. Scrolling to the top and clicking "Go" will
                  *not* go to the right place again.

                  Opera works as expected. It starts with the top of the page, waits until
                  everything is loaded, and then jumps to the anchor.

                  And I think I have found the problem with Firefox:
                  On opening the page it jumps right to the anchor. But when all those
                  images near the top without specified sizes are loaded the focus shifts
                  and is not restored. This behaviour can't be reproduced once the images
                  are cached which must be why we all could not see anything wrong. It
                  only happens once on an empty cache.

                  I believe, but am not sure, that some of these faults do not occur when
                  using a name="" instead of ID="".

                  Axel
                • WV-Mike
                  ... Greetings, I added the image dimensions, but I see now I missed a few. I will go back and fix these and then see what happens. To be on the safe side I
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 8, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    At 04:26 AM 11/8/2007 , you wrote:

                    >WV-Mike wrote:
                    > > Weird. I must have some gremlins in my connection!
                    >
                    >Both FF and Opera do the same thing here, they choose the anchor and
                    >place it right at the top of the window. As you have anchored the
                    >description beneath the image that image is not shown. Are you sure
                    >that's what you want?
                    >
                    >Today my IE 5.5 works as advertised, you're right loro. But it *only*
                    >does so the first time. Scrolling to the top and clicking "Go" will
                    >*not* go to the right place again.
                    >Opera works as expected. It starts with the top of the page, waits until
                    >everything is loaded, and then jumps to the anchor.
                    >
                    >And I think I have found the problem with Firefox:
                    >On opening the page it jumps right to the anchor. But when all those
                    >images near the top without specified sizes are loaded the focus shifts
                    >and is not restored. This behaviour can't be reproduced once the images
                    >are cached which must be why we all could not see anything wrong. It
                    >only happens once on an empty cache.
                    >
                    >I believe, but am not sure, that some of these faults do not occur when
                    >using a name="" instead of ID="". Axel


                    Greetings,
                    I added the image dimensions, but I see now I missed a few. I will go back
                    and fix these and then see what happens.
                    To be on the safe side I will use both ID and NAME hence forth.

                    Thanks for the feedback.
                    -Mike
                  • Axel Berger
                    ... I wouldn t if it was me. The decided advantage of the ID is, that you can add it to any existing semantic tag, while the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 8, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      WV-Mike wrote:
                      > To be on the safe side I will use both ID and NAME hence forth.

                      I wouldn't if it was me. The decided advantage of the ID is, that you
                      can add it to any existing semantic tag, while the <a name needs to be a
                      separate unsemantic element. So a very good case can be made for getting
                      rid of it. Once you value backwards compatibility enough to retain it, I
                      can see no advatage whatever of an additional ID, unless you address it
                      through CSS or script.

                      Axel
                    • WV-Mike
                      ... Hi Axel, To be sure I know what you mean: A semantic tag would be , etc and unsemantic element would be
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 8, 2007
                      • 0 Attachment
                        At 06:39 AM 11/8/2007 , Axel Berger wrote:
                        >WV-Mike wrote:
                        > > To be on the safe side I will use both ID and NAME hence forth.
                        >
                        >I wouldn't if it was me. The decided advantage of the ID is, that you
                        >can add it to any existing semantic tag, while the <a name needs to be a
                        >separate unsemantic element. So a very good case can be made for getting
                        >rid of it. Once you value backwards compatibility enough to retain it, I
                        >can see no advatage whatever of an additional ID, unless you address it
                        >through CSS or script.

                        Hi Axel,
                        To be sure I know what you mean:

                        A semantic tag would be <p>, etc and
                        unsemantic element would be <img and ???

                        If I am understanding you correctly you are saying ID is the one to use in
                        "all cases" since it can be using "anywhere".
                        Please excuse my generalizations.

                        -Mike
                      • WV-Mike
                        ... I wanted to revisit the necessity of using ALT tags . ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_attribute Alternative text is especially useful in the
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 8, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          At 11:33 AM 11/7/2007 , you wrote:
                          >N.B: Your page is terrible with graphics turned off and there are no ALT
                          >tags. I get 28 validation errors and 3 warnings.


                          I wanted to revisit the necessity of using ALT "tags".

                          Reading this:
                          ----
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt_attribute
                          "Alternative text is especially useful in the following situations:

                          * For people with low bandwidth connections, who may opt not to load
                          graphics
                          * For people using handheld devices
                          * For people with disabilities who use assistive technology, such as
                          refreshable braille displays or screen readers
                          * For people using a pay per transferred data connection
                          * Search engine optimization: most search engines interpret the
                          meaning of objects by analysing their alt attribute"

                          And this:
                          http://htmlhelp.com/feature/art3.htm
                          "Why should authors bother with ALT texts?

                          Well, from the fact that you're reading this article, I hope you already
                          think it's a good idea, but I have written some notes [3] on this topic.

                          Some of the biggest "casualties" on the information dirt-track are
                          documents whose authors didn't take the indexing robots seriously. Every
                          step that you take towards text-mode accessibility is, at the same time, a
                          step towards being friendly to those indexing robots, so (whether or not
                          you care about minority audiences such as the blind or users of text mode
                          terminals) I'd say it's in your own interest to keep text-mode
                          accessibility in mind. "
                          ----

                          These gave me some food for thought about not using ALT text in my pages.
                          My previous post on this was a justification for not using them because I
                          felt all the info needed was in the text comments, quotes and links.
                          This seemed to me to make using ALT text superfluous.

                          But, search engine optimization does seem to be reason enough to use ALT text.

                          I wish I had a better idea how useful sight impaired users find ALT tag info.

                          I can't end this without stating another reason I stopped using ALT text.
                          Laziness.
                          All my pages have lots of images and I just never seemed to get around to
                          adding the ALT text because it was too much trouble and slowed the already
                          sluggish pace at which I work.

                          -Mike

                          p.s. Is the "N.B:" above an abbreviation for nota bene, a latin expression
                          meaning "note well"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NB
                          I confess to being ignorant as to it's meaning.
                        • Axel Berger
                          ... No, a semantic element is one, that tells you something about the content and must or should be there irrespective of layout like: this is a paragraph this
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 8, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            WV-Mike wrote:
                            > A semantic tag would be <p>, etc and
                            > unsemantic element would be <img and ???

                            No, a semantic element is one, that tells you something about the
                            content and must or should be there irrespective of layout like:
                            this is a paragraph
                            this is a heading
                            this is an image
                            this is a table (of tabular data)
                            this is a list
                            and also this is a link to something else

                            Unsemantic are all elements that are there for reasons of layout rather
                            than content, i.e. all DIVs and SPANs, tables if they're there for
                            layout, and of course all deprecated nonsense like FONT or CENTER (I
                            sometimes use the latter to cater for browsers without styleshets).
                            Internal anchors are a borderline case, but no doubt an ID attribute
                            inside a tag, that needs to be there anyway, makes for cleaner code.

                            In HTML I'm often pulled both ways by the two important rules I try to
                            comply to:
                            1) Always write totally standards conformant code and shun anything
                            deprecated or proprietary.
                            2) Never use anything newer than you absolutely have to to achieve your
                            goal. Always be compatible to the oldest version of anything that your
                            content allows.

                            Axel
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