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Re: [NH] Crediting a Photograph

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  • Greg Chapman
    Hi Lotta,On 26 Mar 07 15:15 loro said: Add margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto for the div (that already has a width).
    Message 1 of 18 , Mar 26, 2007
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      Hi Lotta,

      On 26 Mar 07 15:15 loro <loro-spam01-@...> said:
      > Add 'margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto' for the div (that
      > already has a width).
      > <http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement>

      Mmm! My page works in Firefox but not IE7. I see from the link on
      that page that it's all to do with that dreaded "quirks mode"
      behaviour. My test page has a tidy.exe inserted DOCTYPE of:

      <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

      I think I'll give up and go back to good old tables!

      At least I understand them! :-)

      Greg


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    • Axel Berger
      ... Yes, that is the correct way. Unfortunately it seems not to be reliably supportet by many browsers. I found that myself on my page with a BODY max-width.
      Message 2 of 18 , Mar 26, 2007
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        loro wrote:
        > Add 'margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto' for the div
        > (that already has a width).
        > <http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement>

        Yes, that is the correct way. Unfortunately it seems not to be reliably
        supportet by many browsers. I found that myself on my page with a BODY
        max-width. It didn't centre but invariably floated to the left. So I now
        deliberately let it float to the right which gives a nicer appearance
        than left imho.

        Axel
      • loro
        ... Not many. Old. The only one of significance is IE version 5.x and older. IE6 needs to be in Standards Mode IIRC. The workaround for old IE is simple
        Message 3 of 18 , Mar 26, 2007
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          Axel Berger wrote:
          >loro wrote:
          > > Add 'margin-right: auto; margin-left: auto' for the div
          > > (that already has a width).
          > > <http://css-discuss.incutio.com/?page=CenteringBlockElement>
          >
          >Yes, that is the correct way. Unfortunately it seems not to be reliably
          >supportet by many browsers.

          Not many. Old. The only one of significance is IE version 5.x and older.
          IE6 needs to be in Standards Mode IIRC. The workaround for old IE is simple
          enough. Use 'text-align: center on a containing element.

          body { text-align: center }
          #box { text-align: left;
          width: 500px; height: 100px;
          color: black; background: red;
          margin: auto }


          <div id="box></div>

          Lotta
        • Axel Berger
          ... Don t know, I had that problem with the newest Firefox 1.5. Maybe it was because I did not use width but just a max-width and wanted centering when that
          Message 4 of 18 , Mar 26, 2007
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            loro wrote:
            > Not many. Old.

            Don't know, I had that problem with the newest Firefox 1.5. Maybe it was
            because I did not use width but just a max-width and wanted centering
            when that was exceeded, but it didn't happen.

            OTOH I think it is the old ones we ought to support. If we conform to
            standards (that of course is a must, always) and early adopters install
            new junk that does not, tough.
            But if someone uses software she's content with and we use new gimmiks
            without any real need for them that break it and force her to upgrade,
            then that's the height of arrogance on our side. Even well known old
            bugs should be taken into account if possible within reasonable effort.
            Sure there may be reasons. Playing MP3s just can't be done on an IBM XT,
            so no upgrade no music and that can't be helped.

            But I just encountered the opposide. My old phone switchboard used a few
            menues to enter data and wrote them into the switchboard through a
            serial connection. All that under DOS and on my XT compatible DOS 5.0
            handheld. My new switchboard uses a few menues to enter data and writes
            them into the switchboard through a serial connection. But the software,
            if anything less useable than the old but with more colours, runs in
            interpreted Java and my notebook with 780 times the computing power of
            an XT can't keep up with the serial timing. Those nutters expect me to
            get a new computer just to stand out in the landing and log some calls.

            We web designers are often the same. We do not normally offer anything
            that an old browser wasn't designed to cope with, we only do it in a
            more garish way.

            (And yes, I may well be a purist leaning towards the puritan.)

            Axel
          • loro
            ... It works with max-width. But the box is always expanded to the max-width. ... If you mean really old ones like Netscape 4 and the like, don t you think
            Message 5 of 18 , Mar 26, 2007
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              Axel Berger wrote:
              >Don't know, I had that problem with the newest Firefox 1.5. Maybe it was
              >because I did not use width but just a max-width and wanted centering
              >when that was exceeded, but it didn't happen.

              It works with max-width. But the box is always expanded to the max-width.

              >OTOH I think it is the old ones we ought to support.

              If you mean really old ones like Netscape 4 and the like, don't you think
              they are best supported by giving them unstyled pages? If you want
              everything to *look* exactly the same in every existing browser, then it's
              questionable if there is any point at all in using CSS.

              Lotta
            • Axel Berger
              ... Yes, of course I do. They need not look the same, but they have to be legible and useable. All too many new pages are a totally incoherent jumble with CSS
              Message 6 of 18 , Mar 27, 2007
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                loro wrote:
                > don't you think they are best supported by giving them unstyled pages?

                Yes, of course I do. They need not look the same, but they have to be
                legible and useable. All too many new pages are a totally incoherent
                jumble with CSS turned off. And if some things just can't be done, then
                leave notes (display:hidden) "With style sheets you would ..." and "With
                Javascript on you could ..."
                The same for IE. If max-width and min-width don't work I need not go to
                enormous lengths to mock them up. But if the results without them become
                unacceptable I should think about an alternative. Perhaps, depending on
                content, a fixed width is the lesser evil.

                > It works with max-width. But the box is always expanded to the max-width.

                Don't know what I did wrong there, but for me it did not centre. The
                max-width as such worked fine.

                Axel
              • Axel Berger
                ... I still do not, but now it works all of a sudden, so the mistake must have been mine. This is from my current central stylesheet: HTML { margin-left:1em;
                Message 7 of 18 , Mar 27, 2007
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                  Axel Berger wrote:
                  > Don't know what I did wrong there,

                  I still do not, but now it works all of a sudden, so the mistake must
                  have been mine. This is from my current central stylesheet:

                  HTML { margin-left:1em; margin-right:1em}
                  BODY { margin-left:auto; margin-right:auto; max-width:700px}

                  I have found that while all browsers show unstyled pages alright they
                  sometimes let the letters touch the left window border on styled ones,
                  which is both ugly and makes text hard to read. That's what the margins
                  in HTML are there to fix.

                  Thanks for making me look at it again.

                  Axel
                • bruce.somers@web.de
                  loro-spam01-@telia.com wrote ... I would have expected CSS to AID one in making everything look exactly the same in every existing browser. That it does not,
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                    loro-spam01-@... wrote

                    > If you want everything to *look* exactly the same in every
                    > existing browser, then it's questionable if there is any
                    > point at all in using CSS.

                    I would have expected CSS to AID one in "making everything look exactly the same in every existing browser."

                    That it does not, makes it nearly useless, or at the least terribly irritating.

                    Bruce
                  • Corl DeLuna
                    Hi Bruce, Yes, CSS can be terribly irritating, but not useless. Browse a few examples of CSS in action to see what I mean: http://www.cssplay.co.uk/ and
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                      Hi Bruce,

                      Yes, CSS can be terribly irritating, but not useless. Browse a few examples
                      of CSS in action to see what I mean: http://www.cssplay.co.uk/ and
                      http://www.csszengarden.com/ and consider
                      http://developer.yahoo.com/yui/reset/ to take most of the CSS blues away.

                      Best,
                      Corl


                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ntb-html@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of bruce.somers@...
                      Sent: Monday, April 02, 2007 1:46 PM
                      To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [NH] Crediting a Photograph

                      loro-spam01-@... wrote

                      > If you want everything to *look* exactly the same in every existing
                      > browser, then it's questionable if there is any point at all in using
                      > CSS.

                      I would have expected CSS to AID one in "making everything look exactly the
                      same in every existing browser."

                      That it does not, makes it nearly useless, or at the least terribly
                      irritating.

                      Bruce








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                    • loro
                      ... That s a tall order if CSS isn t supported or disabled. Just joking you! ;-) I was objecting the use of HTML to make things look pretty in old browsers
                      Message 10 of 18 , Apr 2, 2007
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                        bruce.somers@... wrote:
                        >I would have expected CSS to AID one in "making everything look exactly
                        >the same in every existing browser."

                        That's a tall order if CSS isn't supported or disabled. Just joking you! ;-)
                        I was objecting the use of HTML to make things look pretty in old browsers
                        that can't handle the CSS. Likewise I see nothing wrong in adding some
                        fancy CSS fluff that maybe can't be seen in IE. It hurts no one. After all,
                        CSS is supposed to be optional.

                        Lotta
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