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Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project

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  • Cary Driscoll
    Hi Kerry, Here s some things you can try. ... From: Kerry Coates To: Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:47 PM Subject: [NH] [NTB]
    Message 1 of 12 , Nov 16, 2006
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      Hi Kerry,

      Here's some things you can try.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Kerry Coates"
      To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:47 PM
      Subject: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


      > ok, the website URL is http://www.3ringrodeo.net/index3.htm
      > The style sheet is http://www.3ringrodeo.net/styles2.css
      >
      > The things that bother me about this page is that in Mozilla it has a
      solid border. In IE, the double border shows up.
      > I like the double border and I think the solid border in Mozilla is not as
      attractive. Just my little quirk, I guess.
      > But I am wondering if that can be fixed and if it takes too much work, I
      will just leave it the way it is.

      For this to work "#wrapper" and "#footer" can't have black backgrounds, but
      if they don't you'll need another div within each to supply the black
      background for their content. For this I created a "backing" class.

      Add two new divs to your html.

      <div id="wrapper">
      <div class="backing">
      ...
      </div>
      <div>

      <div id="footer">
      <div class="backing">
      ...
      </div>
      <div>

      Your original #wrapper style:

      #wrapper {
      width:750px;
      margin:0px auto;
      background-color: #000000;
      border-left: thick double #000000;
      border-right: thick double #000000;
      border-top: thick double #000000;
      border-bottom: thick double #000000;
      padding:10px; }

      Two new styles to do the same thing:

      #wrapper {
      border: thick double #000000;
      width:770px;
      margin:0px auto; }

      #wrapper .backing {
      padding:10px;
      background-color: #000000; }

      You don't want the padding on #wrapper because it won't be black. It will be
      used with the inner div's styling instead. Since you wanted #wrapper to have
      a width of 750px and a padding of 10px on the left and right, its width
      becomes 750 + 10 + 10 or 770px. This allows room for the 10px padding on the
      backing div. The backing div will be black, of course, and #wrapper will
      still provide the margins and double border.

      The orginal #footer style:

      #footer {
      margin:10px auto;
      margin-bottom:2px;
      padding:2px;
      width:670px;
      background-color: #000000;
      border-left: thick double #000000;
      border-right: thick double #000000;
      border-top: thick double #000000;
      border-bottom: thick double #000000; }

      Two new styles to do the same thing:

      #footer {
      margin: 10px auto 2px auto;
      width:674px;
      border: thick double #000000; }

      #footer .backing {
      padding:2px;
      background-color: #000000; }

      When you apply these styles all should look well in Firefox and Opera, but
      IE 6 has some white space at the bottom edge of #wapper. If you give
      #profiles' margin-bottom property a value of 0px, that seems to fix it.

      > Another thing is that the boys' profiles are neatly centered in Mozilla,
      but in IE they are off-set a little to the right.
      > I jerked around with the margins, but I am wondering if there is a bigger
      problem since I couldn't get the margins
      > set to where it would render as centered in IE the way it is in Mozilla.

      You have #profiles' left margin set to 150px. Setting the left and right
      margins to "auto" will center the profiles in both Mozilla and IE.

      > And also, I want the marquees to be to the right of their pictures, but
      they end up under their pictures. Of all the
      > time I spent on creating this non-tables code, I spent the most of my time
      trying to figure this one out. I am lost.

      Relative positioning provides an easy solution which I'll give here, but it
      also leaves an empty space beneath each profile where the marquees
      originally appear without the relative positioning.

      First you can adjust the length of the scrolling lines by changing the width
      of #profiles. I changed the width to 290px in this instance and made a new
      style for "marquee".

      New #profiles and marquee styles:

      #profiles {
      margin:10px auto 0px auto;
      padding:5px;
      border:0px solid #bbb;
      width:290px;
      background-color: #000000;
      clear:both; }

      marquee {
      left: 230px;
      top: -120px;
      position: relative; }

      The marquee styling moves the marquees 230px to the right and 120px up from
      their original locations.

      > I also heard that marquee is not good code. Is that true?

      It's a propietary IE tag with some support in Mozilla and Opera, but they
      aren't all identical in how they handle the positioning and such, so this
      was the easiest solution I could find for getting the same results in these
      three browsers.
    • Cary Driscoll
      ... From: Cary Driscoll To: Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:03 PM Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project ... I
      Message 2 of 12 , Nov 16, 2006
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        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Cary Driscoll"
        To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:03 PM
        Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


        > When you apply these styles all should look well in Firefox and Opera, but
        > IE 6 has some white space at the bottom edge of #wapper. If you give
        > #profiles' margin-bottom property a value of 0px, that seems to fix it.

        I just discovered a problem with IE 6's rendering of the footer using this
        technique. All looks well until you mouse over the links. They change size
        and the divs shift in size as well. After the shift the #footer div doesn't
        return to it original size and leaves a clear gap along the bottom edge
        between itself and the backing div. I don't know how to fix this, but I
        assume it's one of the many IE bugs for which hacks have been developed.
      • Cary Driscoll
        Well, I got lucky and came up with something which seems to work. If just the outer div is in fact the only one which doesn t return to its original size then
        Message 3 of 12 , Nov 17, 2006
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          Well, I got lucky and came up with something which seems to work. If just
          the outer div is in fact the only one which doesn't return to its original
          size then all that would be necessary is another div outside the #footer
          div.

          So I made a new div around the #footer div, and it didn't work. However,
          after transfering the margin and width styles to it all was well. I gave the
          new div a class called "fixer" and widened the width to account for the
          double border. Now the empty space at the bottom edge doesn't show up.


          .fixer {
          margin: 10px auto 2px auto;
          width: 686px; }
          #footer {
          border: thick double #000000;
          padding: 0px; }
          #footer .backing {
          padding:2px;
          background-color: #000000;
          margin: 0px;
          border: none; }

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Cary Driscoll"
          Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:49 PM
          Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project
          >
          > > When you apply these styles all should look well in Firefox and Opera,
          but
          > > IE 6 has some white space at the bottom edge of #wapper. If you give
          > > #profiles' margin-bottom property a value of 0px, that seems to fix it.
          >
          > I just discovered a problem with IE 6's rendering of the footer using this
          > technique. All looks well until you mouse over the links. They change size
          > and the divs shift in size as well. After the shift the #footer div
          doesn't
          > return to it original size and leaves a clear gap along the bottom edge
          > between itself and the backing div. I don't know how to fix this, but I
          > assume it's one of the many IE bugs for which hacks have been developed.
          >
        • Kerry Coates
          wow. I have a LOT to learn!!! You have taught me a lot in just a short time. I still don t understand the clear:both; thing -- why it works and how it
          Message 4 of 12 , Nov 17, 2006
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            wow. I have a LOT to learn!!! You have taught me a lot in just a short time. I still don't understand the clear:both; thing -- why it works and how it works. I have messed with it some and have just come up with things through trial and error, still not understanding the whys of it. I do have a full-time job so this is something I mess with in my "spare" time. I am trying to get my websites to earn me a living and until then I need to work a "day job" for someone else. I did notice that I got better placement in the search engines once I converted them to style sheets and cleaned up all that unnecessary code and I didn't change anything else. I am assuming that the engines liked the lighter files -- easier to crawl -- but I can't be certain. I am hoping that taking away the tables will be another very positive step. My real thrill, however, was when I got the other page to validate! That was a rush! The old pages seemed to have a lot of little stuff that had to do with the tables and all that goes with it. Once that was gone, voila!
            Now I am going to go in and make the changes you suggested and see what you are talking about in regards to the footer. Your solution to the double border was interesting. I would have either messed with that problem until I was totally frustrated, or else I would have just "lived with" what I had.
            It will take me a little bit to get this all together then I will write again. I see you are up in the "wee" hours of the night like me. Seems that is the time when things are most quiet and I can concentrate.
            Thanks again!!!!

            Hugs,
            Kerry Coates
            Visit all my websites!
            http://www.GilaMountainDulcimers.com
            http://www.Amazing-Health-Products.com
            http://www.3RingRodeo.net
            http://www.GamblingStrategyCards.com
            http://www.CharroCoats.com
            http://www.PaulCoatesGuitar.com

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Cary Driscoll
            To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 1:38 AM
            Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


            Well, I got lucky and came up with something which seems to work. If just
            the outer div is in fact the only one which doesn't return to its original
            size then all that would be necessary is another div outside the #footer
            div.

            So I made a new div around the #footer div, and it didn't work. However,
            after transfering the margin and width styles to it all was well. I gave the
            new div a class called "fixer" and widened the width to account for the
            double border. Now the empty space at the bottom edge doesn't show up.

            .fixer {
            margin: 10px auto 2px auto;
            width: 686px; }
            #footer {
            border: thick double #000000;
            padding: 0px; }
            #footer .backing {
            padding:2px;
            background-color: #000000;
            margin: 0px;
            border: none; }

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Cary Driscoll"
            Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:49 PM
            Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project
            >
            > > When you apply these styles all should look well in Firefox and Opera,
            but
            > > IE 6 has some white space at the bottom edge of #wapper. If you give
            > > #profiles' margin-bottom property a value of 0px, that seems to fix it.
            >
            > I just discovered a problem with IE 6's rendering of the footer using this
            > technique. All looks well until you mouse over the links. They change size
            > and the divs shift in size as well. After the shift the #footer div
            doesn't
            > return to it original size and leaves a clear gap along the bottom edge
            > between itself and the backing div. I don't know how to fix this, but I
            > assume it's one of the many IE bugs for which hacks have been developed.
            >





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kerry Coates
            Ok this all worked except that the footer was as wide as the screen. I have determined that the problem with the blank space was with the copyright-signature
            Message 5 of 12 , Nov 17, 2006
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              Ok this all worked except that the footer was as wide as the screen. I have determined that the problem with the blank space was with the copyright-signature that I had at the bottom. After jerking things around a little, this is what I ended up with:

              I added a width to the footer of 586 and removed the fixer altogether putting the margins you had in the fixer into the footer instead, and now the footer is the right width, not extending the entire width of the screen, but rather being narrower than the rest of the webpage.
              I also moved the copyright signature thing up into the footer. I think somehow that was the problem causing the blank space but I don't know why. (I had it at the bottom of the page trying to make it more unnoticeable somehow, but being there just for reference-sake.) Once I moved it up into the footer the blank space disappeared!
              So the new footer looks like this and there is no longer any fixer div:

              #footer {
              margin:10px auto 0px auto;
              border:thick double #000000;
              padding:0px;
              width:586px; }

              I kept the footer.backing as you had it.

              Something I am wondering. I see that sometimes you use a period and sometimes a dash as a separator (if that is what it is called) in the ccs. What is the difference and how is it used? For instance, "footer.back" as opposed to "footer-back"? I am seeing that content-main is not "content.main" -- is it just "another way" of writing things?

              Hugs,
              Kerry Coates
              Visit all my websites!
              http://www.GilaMountainDulcimers.com
              http://www.Amazing-Health-Products.com
              http://www.3RingRodeo.net
              http://www.GamblingStrategyCards.com
              http://www.CharroCoats.com
              http://www.PaulCoatesGuitar.com

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Cary Driscoll
              To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 1:38 AM
              Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


              Well, I got lucky and came up with something which seems to work. If just
              the outer div is in fact the only one which doesn't return to its original
              size then all that would be necessary is another div outside the #footer
              div.

              So I made a new div around the #footer div, and it didn't work. However,
              after transfering the margin and width styles to it all was well. I gave the
              new div a class called "fixer" and widened the width to account for the
              double border. Now the empty space at the bottom edge doesn't show up.

              .fixer {
              margin: 10px auto 2px auto;
              width: 686px; }
              #footer {
              border: thick double #000000;
              padding: 0px; }
              #footer .backing {
              padding:2px;
              background-color: #000000;
              margin: 0px;
              border: none; }

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Cary Driscoll"
              Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 11:49 PM
              Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project
              >
              > > When you apply these styles all should look well in Firefox and Opera,
              but
              > > IE 6 has some white space at the bottom edge of #wapper. If you give
              > > #profiles' margin-bottom property a value of 0px, that seems to fix it.
              >
              > I just discovered a problem with IE 6's rendering of the footer using this
              > technique. All looks well until you mouse over the links. They change size
              > and the divs shift in size as well. After the shift the #footer div
              doesn't
              > return to it original size and leaves a clear gap along the bottom edge
              > between itself and the backing div. I don't know how to fix this, but I
              > assume it's one of the many IE bugs for which hacks have been developed.
              >





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Cary Driscoll
              ... From: Kerry Coates To: Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 4:07 AM Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project ... sometimes
              Message 6 of 12 , Nov 17, 2006
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                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Kerry Coates"
                To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 4:07 AM
                Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


                > Something I am wondering. I see that sometimes you use a period and
                sometimes a dash as a separator (if that is what it is called) in the ccs.
                What is the difference and how is it used? For instance, "footer.back" as
                opposed to "footer-back"? I am seeing that content-main is not
                "content.main" -- is it just "another way" of writing things?

                In the case of content-main I was simply refering to your div,
                "#content-main". As for "footer.back", there is the styling for #footer
                .backing" that I made. If I actully refered to it as "footer.back" at some
                point then my bad. The space between the "r" and the period is important.
                The styling won't work without that space. The period indicates that
                "backing" is a class, so the styling applied to this will only affect
                elements within your "#footer" div if they have "class='backing'" in the
                tag. You've mainly been using IDs which are preceeded by the hash symbol
                when defined in styles. A particular ID can only be used once on a page, but
                any given class name can be used for multiple elements on a page, much like
                tags but you can have different kinds of tags with the same class name.

                The "clear" property can be used to change the flow of elements on the page.
                For instance, suppose you had two pictures small enough that they could both
                fit in the same row and that is the way they were tending to flow, but you
                wanted one to be below the other. Using the clear property with the second
                picture would force it to appear lower on the page than whatever was being
                cleared, in this instance the first picture. Suppose you had a picture on
                the left side and text on the right. If you want the second picture to
                appear below the first you could give it the syle "clear:left float:left".
                If you wanted the second picture to appear below the the text on the right
                you could use the style "clear:right float:right". Now suppose you have two
                columns of text, and you have content you wish to included beneath them, but
                the text in the two columns may change from time to time, so their heights
                will not always be same and the one which was longer today may at a later
                time be shorter. Using "clear: both" for the style of the content below the
                columns would force the content to always appear far enough down the page to
                clear the longest column of text, regardless of whether that text is the
                left or right column.

                I hope this helps.
                Have fun.
              • Cary Driscoll
                Looking at your page again, obviously you already understand the use of classes. I noticed you haven t replaced your embeded audio code. Just in case you
                Message 7 of 12 , Nov 17, 2006
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                  Looking at your page again, obviously you already understand the use of
                  classes. I noticed you haven't replaced your embeded audio code. Just in
                  case you missed the post you can embed MP3s with the following:

                  <object classid="clsid:02bf25d5-8c17-4b23-bc80-d3488abddc6b"
                  codebase="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab" width="100"
                  height="20">
                  <param name="src" value="music/oldloversmoon.mp3">
                  <param name="controller" value="true">
                  <param name="autoplay" value="true">
                  <!--[if !IE]>-->
                  <object type="audio/x-mpeg" data="music/oldloversmoon.mp3" width="100"
                  height="20">
                  <param name="controller" value="true">
                  <param name="autoplay" value="true">
                  </object>
                  <!--<![endif]-->
                  </object>


                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "Cary Driscoll"
                  >
                  >
                  > In the case of content-main I was simply refering to your div,
                  > "#content-main". As for "footer.back", there is the styling for #footer
                  > .backing" that I made. If I actully refered to it as "footer.back" at some
                  > point then my bad. The space between the "r" and the period is important.
                  > The styling won't work without that space. The period indicates that
                  > "backing" is a class, so the styling applied to this will only affect
                  > elements within your "#footer" div if they have "class='backing'" in the
                  > tag. You've mainly been using IDs which are preceeded by the hash symbol
                  > when defined in styles. A particular ID can only be used once on a page,
                  but
                  > any given class name can be used for multiple elements on a page, much
                  like
                  > tags but you can have different kinds of tags with the same class name.
                • Kerry Coates
                  No, I didn t miss it. I just didn t get to it!! Thank you for the code. I sort of understand the difference between - and . now. Thank you for the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Nov 17, 2006
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                    No, I didn't miss it. I just didn't get to it!! Thank you for the code. I sort of understand the difference between "-" and "." now. Thank you for the explanation.
                    I work full time and I am in the middle of trying to switch all this (all six sites) to a new server while trying to re-create them. This will take me a while!! LOL But this time I am going to do it right and I am not going to upload anything into their proper folders until I can get it to validate both the css and the html. I get so anxious to get it up there that I have glitches. The 3Ring Rodeo site does not render well at all in Mozilla the way I have it (with the tables). Now that I have the index.htm page set I can work on the other pages -- I have chosen this site first because it is smaller than GilaMountainDulcimers.com and easier than Amazing-Health-Products.com. CharroCoats.com is a really small site and not much activity as far as orders as is also the GamblingStrategyCards.com -- SO, I will do the 3RingRodeo.net site first to help get my husband into better venues with the aid of a nice web presence. Then I will start on the dulcimer site which will someday get me out of my day job and then the Amazing Health site which I am building a business around to keep me in my retirement.
                    I think the Amazing Health site is going to be another "doosey". It has the shopping cart and it is three columns with a header and footer. There are two css files with two different backgrounds. <BG>
                    I learned a LOT from doing the 3RingRodeo site but I am sure I am not done there yet! LOL The photos page will be interesting as will be the slide shows on the boys' profile pages. I am going to try to get the embed thing taken care of tonight and then hopefully start working on one of the inner pages.
                    Thank you for all your help!!! Really!!!! I am hoping you might want to dig into the Amazing Health site a little -- . It will be a whole new design. There are lots of tables to get rid of in that site and I think there are a couple hundred pages -- can't remember -- but they are all similar within each css. The GilaMountainDulcimer site also has LOTS of tables on the clubs, festivals and performers pages -- now that one I am not really looking forward to because it also has a couple hundred pages and there are several different layouts within each link -- but that might change!!!

                    Hugs,
                    Kerry Coates
                    Visit all my websites!
                    http://www.GilaMountainDulcimers.com
                    http://www.Amazing-Health-Products.com
                    http://www.3RingRodeo.net
                    http://www.GamblingStrategyCards.com
                    http://www.CharroCoats.com
                    http://www.PaulCoatesGuitar.com

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Cary Driscoll
                    To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:51 PM
                    Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


                    Looking at your page again, obviously you already understand the use of
                    classes. I noticed you haven't replaced your embeded audio code. Just in
                    case you missed the post you can embed MP3s with the following:

                    <object classid="clsid:02bf25d5-8c17-4b23-bc80-d3488abddc6b"
                    codebase="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab" width="100"
                    height="20">
                    <param name="src" value="music/oldloversmoon.mp3">
                    <param name="controller" value="true">
                    <param name="autoplay" value="true">
                    <!--[if !IE]>-->
                    <object type="audio/x-mpeg" data="music/oldloversmoon.mp3" width="100"
                    height="20">
                    <param name="controller" value="true">
                    <param name="autoplay" value="true">
                    </object>
                    <!--<![endif]-->
                    </object>

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Cary Driscoll"
                    >
                    >
                    > In the case of content-main I was simply refering to your div,
                    > "#content-main". As for "footer.back", there is the styling for #footer
                    > .backing" that I made. If I actully refered to it as "footer.back" at some
                    > point then my bad. The space between the "r" and the period is important.
                    > The styling won't work without that space. The period indicates that
                    > "backing" is a class, so the styling applied to this will only affect
                    > elements within your "#footer" div if they have "class='backing'" in the
                    > tag. You've mainly been using IDs which are preceeded by the hash symbol
                    > when defined in styles. A particular ID can only be used once on a page,
                    but
                    > any given class name can be used for multiple elements on a page, much
                    like
                    > tags but you can have different kinds of tags with the same class name.





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Cary Driscoll
                    You re welcome. Let me know when you have an Amazing Health page for me to look at. ... From: Kerry Coates Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:48 PM Subject:
                    Message 9 of 12 , Nov 18, 2006
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                      You're welcome. Let me know when you have an Amazing Health page for me to
                      look at.

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Kerry Coates"
                      Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:48 PM
                      Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


                      > Thank you for all your help!!! Really!!!! I am hoping you might want
                      to dig into the Amazing Health site a little -- . It will be a whole new
                      design. There are lots of tables to get rid of in that site and I think
                      there are a couple hundred pages -- can't remember -- but they are all
                      similar within each css. The GilaMountainDulcimer site also has LOTS of
                      tables on the clubs, festivals and performers pages -- now that one I am not
                      really looking forward to because it also has a couple hundred pages and
                      there are several different layouts within each link -- but that might
                      change!!!
                      >
                    • Kerry Coates
                      Got a problem with the style sheet validating. It doesn t like onload: runslideshow; I got that code off of the old Frontpage template that I re-worked. We
                      Message 10 of 12 , Nov 18, 2006
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                        Got a problem with the style sheet validating. It doesn't like

                        onload: runslideshow;

                        I got that code off of the old Frontpage template that I re-worked. We have worked on a lot of the code on the css but that one I didn't look at because it was on a working website from a huge casino outfit. Those kinds of companies usually can afford high dollar webdevelopers so I didn't think to look into that. I am totally unfamiliar with slide shows and video code. Do you know what to replace this with or a place where I can go find out more about it?

                        Hugs,
                        Kerry Coates
                        Visit all my websites!
                        http://www.GilaMountainDulcimers.com
                        http://www.Amazing-Health-Products.com
                        http://www.3RingRodeo.net
                        http://www.GamblingStrategyCards.com
                        http://www.CharroCoats.com
                        http://www.PaulCoatesGuitar.com

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Cary Driscoll
                        To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 2:51 PM
                        Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


                        Looking at your page again, obviously you already understand the use of
                        classes. I noticed you haven't replaced your embeded audio code. Just in
                        case you missed the post you can embed MP3s with the following:

                        <object classid="clsid:02bf25d5-8c17-4b23-bc80-d3488abddc6b"
                        codebase="http://www.apple.com/qtactivex/qtplugin.cab" width="100"
                        height="20">
                        <param name="src" value="music/oldloversmoon.mp3">
                        <param name="controller" value="true">
                        <param name="autoplay" value="true">
                        <!--[if !IE]>-->
                        <object type="audio/x-mpeg" data="music/oldloversmoon.mp3" width="100"
                        height="20">
                        <param name="controller" value="true">
                        <param name="autoplay" value="true">
                        </object>
                        <!--<![endif]-->
                        </object>

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "Cary Driscoll"
                        >
                        >
                        > In the case of content-main I was simply refering to your div,
                        > "#content-main". As for "footer.back", there is the styling for #footer
                        > .backing" that I made. If I actully refered to it as "footer.back" at some
                        > point then my bad. The space between the "r" and the period is important.
                        > The styling won't work without that space. The period indicates that
                        > "backing" is a class, so the styling applied to this will only affect
                        > elements within your "#footer" div if they have "class='backing'" in the
                        > tag. You've mainly been using IDs which are preceeded by the hash symbol
                        > when defined in styles. A particular ID can only be used once on a page,
                        but
                        > any given class name can be used for multiple elements on a page, much
                        like
                        > tags but you can have different kinds of tags with the same class name.





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Cary Driscoll
                        Onload is supposed to be used within javascript. According to TopStyle, onload isn t a css property that any common browser recognizes. Just delete that line
                        Message 11 of 12 , Nov 18, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Onload is supposed to be used within javascript. According to TopStyle,
                          onload isn't a css property that any common browser recognizes. Just delete
                          that line since it shouldn't be having any effect.

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Kerry Coates"
                          Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:58 AM
                          Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


                          > Got a problem with the style sheet validating. It doesn't like
                          >
                          > onload: runslideshow;
                          >
                          > I got that code off of the old Frontpage template that I re-worked. We
                          have worked on a lot of the code on the css but that one I didn't look at
                          because it was on a working website from a huge casino outfit. Those kinds
                          of companies usually can afford high dollar webdevelopers so I didn't think
                          to look into that. I am totally unfamiliar with slide shows and video code.
                          Do you know what to replace this with or a place where I can go find out
                          more about it?
                        • Kerry Coates
                          I did that and then re-validated my css and this is the message I got: No error or warning found To work as intended, your CSS style sheet needs a correct
                          Message 12 of 12 , Nov 18, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I did that and then re-validated my css and this is the message I got:

                            No error or warning found
                            To work as intended, your CSS style sheet needs a correct document parse tree. This means you should use valid HTML.

                            I think it has to do with the "Marque" on my index.htm since that is the only thing that is stopping the index.htm from validating.

                            I renamed the index3.htm and the index4.htm to index.htm and index2.htm since I felt they were ready to publish.


                            Hugs,
                            Kerry Coates
                            Visit all my websites!
                            http://www.GilaMountainDulcimers.com
                            http://www.Amazing-Health-Products.com
                            http://www.3RingRodeo.net
                            http://www.GamblingStrategyCards.com
                            http://www.CharroCoats.com
                            http://www.PaulCoatesGuitar.com

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Cary Driscoll
                            To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 12:39 PM
                            Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project


                            Onload is supposed to be used within javascript. According to TopStyle,
                            onload isn't a css property that any common browser recognizes. Just delete
                            that line since it shouldn't be having any effect.

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Kerry Coates"
                            Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 1:58 AM
                            Subject: Re: [NH] [NTB] Tables or not new project

                            > Got a problem with the style sheet validating. It doesn't like
                            >
                            > onload: runslideshow;
                            >
                            > I got that code off of the old Frontpage template that I re-worked. We
                            have worked on a lot of the code on the css but that one I didn't look at
                            because it was on a working website from a huge casino outfit. Those kinds
                            of companies usually can afford high dollar webdevelopers so I didn't think
                            to look into that. I am totally unfamiliar with slide shows and video code.
                            Do you know what to replace this with or a place where I can go find out
                            more about it?





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