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Re: [NH] Code for HTML Extended Characters

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  • Marcelo de Castro Bastos
    On the last exciting episode, aired on 2/5/2006 17:53, Jody invited the ... Just found an old message in which I gave the same info as in the previous message,
    Message 1 of 23 , May 2, 2006
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      On the last exciting episode, aired on 2/5/2006 17:53, Jody invited the
      wrath of the gods by saying:
      > Hi All,
      >
      > I know I have this somewhere, but does anybody have a list of the
      > extended characters converted to HTML that are not working
      > correctly. I was once told that it was from a certain number and
      > all the way up the list from there, if that makes any sense to
      > you. <g>
      >
      >
      Just found an old message in which I gave the same info as in the
      previous message, only in a more structured way:

      Marcelo

      -------- Original Message --------
      Subject: Re: [NH] Extended Characters Not Getting Converted?
      Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:37:49 -0300
      From: Marcelo de Castro Bastos <mcblista@...>
      Reply-To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
      To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
      References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040527085617.00caa690@...>



      On 27/5/2004 14:58, Jody invited the wrath of the gods by saying:

      >Hi All,
      >
      >(Please don't all reply here at once. ;) See what has been posted - thanks!)
      >
      >There were some reports awhile back about some extended
      >characters not getting converted correctly. I believe it was when
      >doing a Document to HTML. They were either incorrect or not
      >converted at all. I need to know:
      >
      >What are the characters, ie Alt+0252, ü,
      >252 FC 374 11111100 ü · ü Latin small U, diæresis/umlaut)
      >
      >
      >
      Main problem stems from the fact that characters from 128 to 159 are
      UNDEFINED on Latin-1 (iso-8859-1) encoding. However, Windows has special
      characters defined in this range, which can cause problems. The ones I
      noticed, for instance, are all in this range. There's two in particular
      which annoy the hell of me, because Notetab converts them to the wrong
      entity:

      146 92 U+2019 : RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK (gets converted to ´
      which is NOT the same -- should be ’ or ’)
      148 94 U+201D : RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK (gets converted to ’
      which is plain wrong -- should be ” or ”)

      Generally speaking, characters in the range 128-159 should NOT be
      converted to numeric entities in the range € - Ÿ -- this range
      is undefined and disallowed. Oh, it WORKS, kinda, IF you don't mind that
      your page won't validate and if you don't mind that people with
      non-Windows systems will get weird characters. HTMLTidy will fix it --
      but will also generate a long error report, with the actual *important*
      coding errors lost in the middle of the garbage. I got to the point that
      I created a clip to fix the conversion...

      >What NoteTab does or does not do with them and what it should do...
      >
      >
      >
      Characters in the 128-159 range should be converted thus (at least for
      Windows standard fonts, with encoding Windows-1252) -- some authors
      prefer numeric entities (defined in
      http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/sgml/entities.html ) because not all
      browsers will recognize all named entities. I didn't have the time to
      look up all numeric references one by one, BUT Tidy will convert from
      characters to numbered entities with NO error messages.

      128 to €
      130 to ‚
      131 to ƒ
      132 to „
      133 to …
      134 to †
      135 to ‡
      136 to ˆ
      137 to ‰
      138 to Š
      139 to ‹
      140 to Œ
      142 to é
      145 to ‘
      146 to ’
      147 to “
      148 to ”
      149 to •
      150 to –
      151 to —
      152 to ˜
      153 to ™
      154 to š
      155 to ›
      156 to œ
      158 to ž
      159 to Ÿ

      >Is it NoteTab Pro or NoteTab Standard/Light or all...
      >
      >
      >
      >
      I have noticed it both in Light and in Pro.

      >What steps to take to see it happen...
      >
      >
      >
      1. Write a plain text file containing characters in the range above
      (especially "smart" quotes)
      2. Convert to HTML
      3. RunTIDY in order to see the error messages (not harmful)
      4. Open the HTML file in your browser and check the smartquotes.

      --
      Marcelo de Castro Bastos
    • Kerry Coates
      Marcelo, I still use for double quotes. Is that not correct anymore? I also use ® for Registered Trademark and & for the symbol & , etc. When I validate
      Message 2 of 23 , May 2, 2006
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        Marcelo,
        I still use " for double quotes. Is that not correct anymore? I
        also use ® for Registered Trademark and & for the symbol "&", etc.
        When I validate my pages I don't get any errors on these ( just other stuff
        I can't seem to get right!)

        Kerry Coates
        Visit all my websites!
        http://www.GilaMountainDulcimers.com
        http://www.Amazing-Health-Products.com
        http://www.GamblingStrategyCards.com
        http://www.CharroCoats.com
        http://www.PaulCoatesGuitar.com


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Marcelo de Castro Bastos" <mcblista@...>
        To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 6:37 PM
        Subject: Re: [NH] Code for HTML Extended Characters


        > On the last exciting episode, aired on 2/5/2006 17:53, Jody invited the
        > wrath of the gods by saying:
        >> Hi All,
        >>
        >> I know I have this somewhere, but does anybody have a list of the
        >> extended characters converted to HTML that are not working
        >> correctly. I was once told that it was from a certain number and
        >> all the way up the list from there, if that makes any sense to
        >> you. <g>
        >>
        >>
        > Just found an old message in which I gave the same info as in the
        > previous message, only in a more structured way:
        >
        > Marcelo
        >
        > -------- Original Message --------
        > Subject: Re: [NH] Extended Characters Not Getting Converted?
        > Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 16:37:49 -0300
        > From: Marcelo de Castro Bastos <mcblista@...>
        > Reply-To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
        > To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
        > References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040527085617.00caa690@...>
        >
        >
        >
        > On 27/5/2004 14:58, Jody invited the wrath of the gods by saying:
        >
        >>Hi All,
        >>
        >>(Please don't all reply here at once. ;) See what has been posted -
        >>thanks!)
        >>
        >>There were some reports awhile back about some extended
        >>characters not getting converted correctly. I believe it was when
        >>doing a Document to HTML. They were either incorrect or not
        >>converted at all. I need to know:
        >>
        >>What are the characters, ie Alt+0252, ü,
        >>252 FC 374 11111100 ü · ü Latin small U, diæresis/umlaut)
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > Main problem stems from the fact that characters from 128 to 159 are
        > UNDEFINED on Latin-1 (iso-8859-1) encoding. However, Windows has special
        > characters defined in this range, which can cause problems. The ones I
        > noticed, for instance, are all in this range. There's two in particular
        > which annoy the hell of me, because Notetab converts them to the wrong
        > entity:
        >
        > 146 92 U+2019 : RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK (gets converted to ´
        > which is NOT the same -- should be ’ or ’)
        > 148 94 U+201D : RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK (gets converted to ’
        > which is plain wrong -- should be ” or ”)
        >
        > Generally speaking, characters in the range 128-159 should NOT be
        > converted to numeric entities in the range € - Ÿ -- this range
        > is undefined and disallowed. Oh, it WORKS, kinda, IF you don't mind that
        > your page won't validate and if you don't mind that people with
        > non-Windows systems will get weird characters. HTMLTidy will fix it --
        > but will also generate a long error report, with the actual *important*
        > coding errors lost in the middle of the garbage. I got to the point that
        > I created a clip to fix the conversion...
        >
        >>What NoteTab does or does not do with them and what it should do...
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > Characters in the 128-159 range should be converted thus (at least for
        > Windows standard fonts, with encoding Windows-1252) -- some authors
        > prefer numeric entities (defined in
        > http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/sgml/entities.html ) because not all
        > browsers will recognize all named entities. I didn't have the time to
        > look up all numeric references one by one, BUT Tidy will convert from
        > characters to numbered entities with NO error messages.
        >
        > 128 to €
        > 130 to ‚
        > 131 to ƒ
        > 132 to „
        > 133 to …
        > 134 to †
        > 135 to ‡
        > 136 to ˆ
        > 137 to ‰
        > 138 to Š
        > 139 to ‹
        > 140 to Œ
        > 142 to é
        > 145 to ‘
        > 146 to ’
        > 147 to “
        > 148 to ”
        > 149 to •
        > 150 to –
        > 151 to —
        > 152 to ˜
        > 153 to ™
        > 154 to š
        > 155 to ›
        > 156 to œ
        > 158 to ž
        > 159 to Ÿ
        >
        >>Is it NoteTab Pro or NoteTab Standard/Light or all...
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > I have noticed it both in Light and in Pro.
        >
        >>What steps to take to see it happen...
        >>
        >>
        >>
        > 1. Write a plain text file containing characters in the range above
        > (especially "smart" quotes)
        > 2. Convert to HTML
        > 3. RunTIDY in order to see the error messages (not harmful)
        > 4. Open the HTML file in your browser and check the smartquotes.
        >
        > --
        > Marcelo de Castro Bastos
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > CSE HTML Validator Lite - it's free:
        > http://home.earthlink.net/~5wink/dl/cselite652.exe
        >
        > Fookes Software Home: http://www.fookes.us/redir
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Marcelo de Castro Bastos
        On the last exciting episode, aired on 3/5/2006 01:47, Kerry Coates ... No, it s OK to use " , it s just not REQUIRED. Same for ® , except that
        Message 3 of 23 , May 3, 2006
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          On the last exciting episode, aired on 3/5/2006 01:47, Kerry Coates
          invited the wrath of the gods by saying:
          > Marcelo,
          > I still use " for double quotes. Is that not correct anymore? I
          > also use ® for Registered Trademark and & for the symbol "&", etc.
          > When I validate my pages I don't get any errors on these ( just other stuff
          > I can't seem to get right!)
          >
          No, it's OK to use " , it's just not REQUIRED. Same for ® ,
          except that depending on the charset you may be required to use the
          ® form -- the "registered trademark" glyph is allowed in iso-8859-1
          and win-1252 character sets, but not in other charsets, like "pure" ASCII.

          Generally speaking, the named entities (like ®) and numbered
          entities (like һ) are ALWAYS allowed. However, some named
          entities are poorly supported, and might not work in all browsers
          (numbered entities should always work, unless the client computer does
          not have a font with the right glyph). There are sites listing all of those.

          The advantages to using the character itself instead of the entity form are:
          1- The file is slightly smaller, and
          2- It's more human-readable.

          Another good option, instead of using entities, is to convert the entire
          file to Unicode (for instance, in UTF-8). However, this is harder to do
          by hand...

          Marcelo
        • Jody
          Hi Marcelo, Thanks! This is the one I was referring to. Once you gave me some text to search on, I found my copy. Most of them are already fixed in NoteTab
          Message 4 of 23 , May 3, 2006
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            Hi Marcelo,

            Thanks! This is the one I was referring to. Once you gave me some
            text to search on, I found my copy. <g> Most of them are already fixed
            in NoteTab v5.0 :)

            >> I know I have this somewhere, but does anybody have a list of the
            >> extended characters converted to HTML that are not working
            >> correctly. I was once told that it was from a certain number and
            >> all the way up the list from there, if that makes any sense to
            >> you. <g>
            >>
            >Just found an old message in which I gave the same info as in the
            >previous message, only in a more structured way:
            >
            >Marcelo
            >
            >On 27/5/2004 14:58, Jody invited the wrath of the gods by saying:
            >
            >>Hi All,
            >>
            >> There were some reports awhile back about some extended
            >> characters not getting converted correctly. I believe it was
            >> when doing a Document to HTML. They were either incorrect or
            >> not converted at all. I need to know:
            >>
            >>What are the characters, ie Alt+0252, ü,
            >>252 FC 374 11111100 ü · ü Latin small U, diæresis/umlaut)


            Happy HTML'n!
            Jody

            http://www.notetab.net
            http://www.fookes.us/aid4mail
            Fookes Software Yahoogroups:
            http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
          • Marcelo de Castro Bastos
            On the last exciting episode, aired on 3/5/2006 17:07, Jody invited the ... 1. Just most? ;-) 2. Do you have a timeline to offer us hardcore fans now? It has
            Message 5 of 23 , May 3, 2006
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              On the last exciting episode, aired on 3/5/2006 17:07, Jody invited the
              wrath of the gods by saying:
              > Hi Marcelo,
              >
              > Thanks! This is the one I was referring to. Once you gave me some
              > text to search on, I found my copy. <g> Most of them are already fixed
              > in NoteTab v5.0 :)
              >
              1. Just "most?" ;-)
              2. Do you have a timeline to offer us hardcore fans now? It has been
              what, FOUR YEARS?
              3. Or at least a new feature list to keep us waiting?

              Marcelo
            • Jody
              Hi Marcelo, ... Nope! Sorry. ... There have been some subtle changes in behavior. One thing that has been an issue on the list is not being able to have
              Message 6 of 23 , May 4, 2006
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                Hi Marcelo,

                >On the last exciting episode, aired on 3/5/2006 17:07, Jody invited the
                >wrath of the gods by saying:
                >> Hi Marcelo,
                >>
                >> Thanks! This is the one I was referring to. Once you gave me some
                >> text to search on, I found my copy. <g> Most of them are already fixed
                >> in NoteTab v5.0 :)
                >>
                >1. Just "most?" ;-)
                >2. Do you have a timeline to offer us hardcore fans now? It has been
                >what, FOUR YEARS?

                Nope! Sorry.

                >3. Or at least a new feature list to keep us waiting?

                There have been some subtle changes in behavior. One thing that
                has been an issue on the list is not being able to have NoteTab
                write to the INI file when users are logged in by an account
                name. Now, if no INI file is found like NotePro.ini for instance,
                NoteTab will create an INI file under the Documents and Settings
                for the logged in user such as:

                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Tips.ndx
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\NotePro 5b01.fpr
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\NotePro 5b1.ini
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\SPELL.CFG
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Samples\
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Scripts\
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Sounds\
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Spelling\
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Templates\
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Dictionaries\
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Favorites\
                D:\Documents and Settings\Sojourner\Application Data\NoteTab Pro\Libraries\

                I don't know id Spelling replace Dictionaries or not or visa versa. We done
                about 18-20 betas counting the ones that was just Eric and I.

                I have to leave for an appointment; just noticed I'm late. Gotta run!

                bcnu,
                jody

                I can only please one person a day.
                Today is obviously not your day.
                Tomorrow doesn't look good either. 8D
                http://www.clean-funnies.com
                http://www.fookes.com/regnow.html?2448 ;)
                http://www.sojourner.us/software
              • Jody
                Hi Marcelo and Others, I thought I might let you all know that all extended characters are now set correctly in NoteTab v5B16. There s only two that remain the
                Message 7 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                  Hi Marcelo and Others,

                  I thought I might let you all know that all extended characters
                  are now set correctly in NoteTab v5B16. There's only two that
                  remain the decimal instead of the html source code. They are the
                  following. Eric told me why he left them, but I forget.

                  150 96 226 10010110 – – · – SPA - En-dash (Start of Guarded Area)
                  151 97 227 10010111 — — · — EPA - Em-dash (End of Guarded Area)

                  He had already done a lot of work to them without mentioning it
                  as he does at times and uses the catchall phrase, "And other
                  small glitches as well," referring to all the bugs he fixed and
                  for some reason doesn't tell us. <g> Anyway, I went to AsciiCat
                  and copied the whole list from 128 on. I found about 15 that still
                  needed fixing, only a few that were "critical" but he fixed them all. :)

                  >> I know I have this somewhere, but does anybody have a list of the
                  >> extended characters converted to HTML that are not working
                  >> correctly. I was once told that it was from a certain number and
                  >> all the way up the list from there, if that makes any sense to
                  >> you. <g>
                  >>
                  >Just found an old message in which I gave the same info as in the
                  >previous message, only in a more structured way:
                  >
                  >Marcelo
                  >
                  >146 92 U+2019 : RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK (gets converted to ´
                  >which is NOT the same -- should be ’ or ’)
                  >148 94 U+201D : RIGHT DOUBLE QUOTATION MARK (gets converted to ’
                  >which is plain wrong -- should be ” or ”)
                  >
                  >128 to €
                  >130 to ‚
                  >131 to ƒ
                  >132 to „
                  >133 to …
                  <snip>


                  Happy HTML'n!
                  Jody

                  http://www.notetab.net
                  http://www.fookes.us/aid4mail
                  Fookes Software Yahoogroups:
                  http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                • loro
                  ... That s good. Decimal is generally better than named entities because they have better support in old crap like NS4. :-) The only advantage of named
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                    Jody wrote:


                    >I thought I might let you all know that all extended characters
                    >are now set correctly in NoteTab v5B16. There's only two that
                    >remain the decimal instead of the html source code. They are the
                    >following. Eric told me why he left them, but I forget.
                    >
                    >150 96 226 10010110 ­ – · – SPA - En-dash (Start of Guarded Area)

                    That's good. Decimal is generally better than named entities because they
                    have better support in old crap like NS4. :-)
                    The only advantage of named entities is that they are easier to type and
                    remember, really. That's not an issue here. The problem in v. 4.x, isn't
                    that the values are decimal but that they are illegal. em- and en-dash are
                    currently converted to – and — . The whole range from 
                    through Ÿ are invalid characters. Windows stuff.

                    Lotta
                  • Marcelo de Castro Bastos
                    On the last exciting episode, aired on 1/6/2006 14:50, Jody invited the ... By the way, as I was working in some files the other day I became aware of a
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                      On the last exciting episode, aired on 1/6/2006 14:50, Jody invited the
                      wrath of the gods by saying:
                      > Hi Marcelo and Others,
                      >
                      > I thought I might let you all know that all extended characters
                      > are now set correctly in NoteTab v5B16. There's only two that
                      > remain the decimal instead of the html source code. They are the
                      > following. Eric told me why he left them, but I forget.
                      >
                      >
                      By the way, as I was working in some files the other day I became aware
                      of a shortcoming in one aspect of Notetab -- namely, the line numbering:

                      The line-numbering refers to the number of lines as *displayed*, not as
                      *saved.* That is, the same line has different numbers when word-wrapping
                      is turned on or off. Since Tidy error reports always refer to "real"
                      line counts (that is, counting actual line breaks), I have to turn
                      wordwrapping off for this info to be of any use. But then, if the lines
                      are long, editing becomes a pain.

                      Of course, I *could* set up Tidy to break long lines -- it solves the
                      problem, kinda. But it also makes the code harder to follow, because
                      the indentations get lost.

                      So, what I would really like is... well, to be able to choose if Notetab
                      counts/numbers/searches lines "as displayed" on screen (meaning that a
                      word-wrapped long line would count as several lines -- that's the
                      present behavior) or if it counts/numbers/searches lines "as saved"
                      (meaning that it long word-wrapped line would count as a single line,
                      that is, it would have the same "line number" no matter if wordwrapping
                      was on or off).

                      I realize this is rather late in the beta stage to ask for new features
                      but... well, I don't know, maybe Eric already considered it? If so, he
                      might interested in knowing that there are people who would like this
                      feature.

                      Marcelo
                    • loro
                      ... Ha! I ve asked for this for10 years - at least. I m sure it s on the special don t-fix-this-because-Lotta-wants-it list. ;-) Jokes aside, I guess the
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                        Marcelo de Castro Bastos wrote:
                        >So, what I would really like is... well, to be able to choose if Notetab
                        >counts/numbers/searches lines "as displayed" on screen

                        Ha! I've asked for this for10 years - at least. I'm sure it's on the
                        special don't-fix-this-because-Lotta-wants-it list. ;-)
                        Jokes aside, I guess the clippo stuff complicates it maybe. Then again, I
                        don't see why clips need to count wrapped lines either. I probably miss
                        something.

                        Lotta
                      • adrien
                        ... Do not know if it is the same. But when one runs the validator http://validator.w3.org/ than, for example, it says: on line X error this and error
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                          Op do, 01-06-2006 te 15:37 -0300, schreef Marcelo de Castro Bastos:
                          > So, what I would really like is... well, to be able to choose if
                          > Notetab counts/numbers/searches lines "as displayed" on screen
                          > (meaning that a word-wrapped long line would count as several lines --
                          > that's the present behavior) or if it counts/numbers/searches lines
                          > "as saved" (meaning that it long word-wrapped line would count as a
                          > single line, that is, it would have the same "line number" no matter
                          > if wordwrapping was on or off).

                          Do not know if it is the same. But when one runs the validator
                          http://validator.w3.org/ than, for example, it says: on line X error
                          'this' and error 'that'. The line number from the validator is always
                          different from the linenumber in NoteTab (Pro 4.95).
                          --
                          adrien
                        • Marcelo de Castro Bastos
                          On the last exciting episode, aired on 1/6/2006 15:24, loro invited the ... Yes, numbered entities are actually more reliable (although harder to interpret by
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                            On the last exciting episode, aired on 1/6/2006 15:24, loro invited the
                            wrath of the gods by saying:
                            > Jody wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >> I thought I might let you all know that all extended characters
                            >> are now set correctly in NoteTab v5B16. There's only two that
                            >> remain the decimal instead of the html source code. They are the
                            >> following. Eric told me why he left them, but I forget.
                            >>
                            >> 150 96 226 10010110 ­ – · – SPA - En-dash (Start of Guarded Area)
                            >>
                            >
                            > That's good. Decimal is generally better than named entities because they
                            > have better support in old crap like NS4. :-)
                            > The only advantage of named entities is that they are easier to type and
                            > remember, really. That's not an issue here. The problem in v. 4.x, isn't
                            > that the values are decimal but that they are illegal. em- and en-dash are
                            > currently converted to – and — . The whole range from 
                            > through Ÿ are invalid characters. Windows stuff.
                            >
                            >
                            Yes, numbered entities are actually more reliable (although harder to
                            interpret by hand) than named entities. I'm OK with numbered entities
                            too, as long as they are valid ones. Another problem with the current
                            (4.x) conversion, besides the 129-159 range thing, is that a couple
                            values are converted wrongly.

                            Anyway, if the user prefers named entities over numbered entities, or
                            vice versa, there's a fairly easy way to do the conversion -- just one
                            of the many options in Tidy. Which, by the way, can also be used to
                            convert from hard-to-edit-by-hand UTF-8 to, say, ISO-8859-1 plus named
                            entities. (Myself, I use Win-1252 in the development stage, and convert
                            to either ISO-8859-1 or UTF-8 before publishing). I even use it now and
                            then to convert texts from Mac-encoding...

                            I use these kinds of tricks so much that I have the tidy.cfg in my
                            Notetab Favourites list -- lots of times I open it, tweak it a bit,
                            save, runTidy, open it again and revert to my usual default.

                            Marcelo
                          • Jody
                            Hi Marcelo, Just a short note to let you know that I mentioned the line numbering to Eric a couple weeks ago, that it was a fairly often requested issue. I ll
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                              Hi Marcelo,

                              Just a short note to let you know that I mentioned the line
                              numbering to Eric a couple weeks ago, that it was a fairly often
                              requested issue. I'll check the status about that, whether it
                              might be added this update or not. I'd be happy if there was just
                              a number by the actual line starts (cr/lf) and when word wrap is
                              on you have a bunch of lines with no numbers by them. I would
                              think that blank lines should be numbered as well. I know my CSE
                              HTML Validator used with Tools | Validate HTML and W3C's online
                              validation tool numbers the blanks and counts the lines only at
                              the true line breaks.

                              >On the last exciting episode, aired on 1/6/2006 14:50, Jody invited the
                              >wrath of the gods by saying:
                              >> Hi Marcelo and Others,
                              >>
                              >> I thought I might let you all know that all extended characters
                              >> are now set correctly in NoteTab v5B16. There's only two that
                              >> remain the decimal instead of the html source code. They are the
                              >> following. Eric told me why he left them, but I forget.
                              >>
                              >By the way, as I was working in some files the other day I became aware
                              >of a shortcoming in one aspect of Notetab -- namely, the line numbering:
                              >
                              >The line-numbering refers to the number of lines as *displayed*, not as
                              >*saved.* That is, the same line has different numbers when word-wrapping
                              >is turned on or off. Since Tidy error reports always refer to "real"
                              >line counts (that is, counting actual line breaks), I have to turn
                              >wordwrapping off for this info to be of any use. But then, if the lines
                              >are long, editing becomes a pain.
                              >
                              >Of course, I *could* set up Tidy to break long lines -- it solves the
                              >problem, kinda. But it also makes the code harder to follow, because
                              >the indentations get lost.
                              >
                              >So, what I would really like is... well, to be able to choose if Notetab
                              >counts/numbers/searches lines "as displayed" on screen (meaning that a
                              >word-wrapped long line would count as several lines -- that's the
                              >present behavior) or if it counts/numbers/searches lines "as saved"
                              >(meaning that it long word-wrapped line would count as a single line,
                              >that is, it would have the same "line number" no matter if wordwrapping
                              >was on or off).
                              >
                              >I realize this is rather late in the beta stage to ask for new features
                              >but... well, I don't know, maybe Eric already considered it? If so, he
                              >might interested in knowing that there are people who would like this
                              >feature.


                              Happy HTML'n!
                              Jody

                              http://www.notetab.net
                              http://www.fookes.us/aid4mail
                              Fookes Software Yahoogroups:
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                            • Jody
                              Hi Adrien, ... That is exactly what we are discussing. I sent in another message to number the lines the way I mentioned in the my last message under this
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                                Hi Adrien,

                                >Op do, 01-06-2006 te 15:37 -0300, schreef Marcelo de Castro Bastos:
                                >> So, what I would really like is... well, to be able to choose if
                                >> Notetab counts/numbers/searches lines "as displayed" on screen
                                >> (meaning that a word-wrapped long line would count as several lines --
                                >> that's the present behavior) or if it counts/numbers/searches lines
                                >> "as saved" (meaning that it long word-wrapped line would count as a
                                >> single line, that is, it would have the same "line number" no matter
                                >> if wordwrapping was on or off).
                                >
                                >Do not know if it is the same. But when one runs the validator
                                >http://validator.w3.org/ than, for example, it says: on line X error
                                >'this' and error 'that'. The line number from the validator is always
                                >different from the linenumber in NoteTab (Pro 4.95).

                                That is exactly what we are discussing. I sent in another message
                                to number the lines the way I mentioned in the my last message
                                under this thread that I now changed and put my reply following. :)
                                I mentioned numbering the status bar the same way as the number
                                bar only numbering lines with real hard line breaks with word
                                wrap not effecting it. I did suggest it to be a feature added to
                                Pro and Std, but also leave the current way in for writers (of
                                literature), etc. It's just my guess that there are people in
                                other areas, not html and other coders that want the soft wrapped
                                lines numbered.

                                Hi Marcelo,

                                Just a short note to let you know that I mentioned the line
                                numbering to Eric a couple weeks ago, that it was a fairly often
                                requested issue. I'll check the status about that, whether it
                                might be added this update or not. I'd be happy if there was just
                                a number by the actual line starts (cr/lf) and when word wrap is
                                on you have a bunch of lines with no numbers by them. I would
                                think that blank lines should be numbered as well. I know my CSE
                                HTML Validator used with Tools | Validate HTML and W3C's online
                                validation tool numbers the blanks and counts the lines only at
                                the true line breaks.

                                Happy HTML'n!
                                Jody

                                http://www.notetab.net
                                http://www.fookes.us/aid4mail
                                Fookes Software Yahoogroups:
                                http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
                              • Jody
                                Hi Lotta, Marcelo, and Others, ... LOL - But, I know what you mean. At times, I feel like I don t get some commands/functions I request that Eric doesn t do it
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jun 1, 2006
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                                  Hi Lotta, Marcelo, and Others,

                                  >> So, what I would really like is... well, to be able to choose
                                  >> if Notetab counts/numbers/searches lines "as displayed" on
                                  >> screen
                                  >
                                  >Ha! I've asked for this for10 years - at least. I'm sure it's on
                                  >the special don't-fix-this-because-Lotta-wants-it list. ;-)

                                  LOL - But, I know what you mean. At times, I feel like I don't
                                  get some commands/functions I request that Eric doesn't do it
                                  because he doesn't want people to think he has favorites. <g>
                                  And, I surely don't want to be called the "teacher's pet." <g>

                                  >Jokes aside, I guess the clippo stuff complicates it maybe. Then
                                  >again, I don't see why clips need to count wrapped lines either.
                                  >I probably miss something.

                                  My guess would be that it would slow down NoteTab too much and,
                                  probably a lot more difficult to program than we non-programmers
                                  think. Eric's known about it you full 10+ years too Lotta, oh, so
                                  it's your fault that we don't have it! Well, at least we know why
                                  and can say, "It's Lotta's fault!" <g>

                                  I'll hopefully get an answer about it tomorrow and will let you
                                  know what Eric's plans are in reference to the line numbering. I
                                  have a pretty nice Library called nnnLines, but I just noticed a
                                  tiny bug in it. Will upload later. Here's some general info about
                                  it...

                                  The only way you can print line numbers is by adding/inserting
                                  the line numbers to the document. So, you would want to make a
                                  copy first, place your cursor on line one or where you want to
                                  start the numbering at, and then click on Modify | Lines | Number
                                  lines...

                                  You can also look over my nnnLines Library. There are a number of
                                  ways to add line numbers some of them have many options and yet
                                  one you might like automatically makes a new document, numbers
                                  the lines, and then prints all with one click. You can add as
                                  many of the Clips to your default Clipbar when using a registered
                                  version of NoteTab.

                                  About halfway down in the attached Library there is a Clip called
                                  "Remove Numbers..." If there is no period, colon, etc. after the
                                  numbers just type in the amount of spaces, literally, use the
                                  Spacebar. You may have to use the Replace dialog to remove any
                                  leading spaces that may have been used for padding your numbers
                                  or any other stuff that the Clip does not do. It will remove all
                                  of like "239 " "66. " "777. " without the quotes though. If there
                                  are different separators following the numbers, you will need to
                                  run the Clip for as many times as there are different separators.

                                  The Library gets extracted to NoteTab's Libraries folder.
                                  nnnLines download link:
                                  http://www.notetab.net/zip/nnnlines.zip


                                  Happy HTML'n!
                                  Jody

                                  http://www.notetab.net
                                  http://www.fookes.us/aid4mail
                                  Fookes Software Yahoogroups:
                                  http://www.fookes.us/maillist.htm
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