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Re: [NH] Warning: expected "html PUBLIC"

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  • Grant
    ... debugger line numbers can be confusing most likely the error is with your Doctype declaration at the top of your document and Tidy is looking for closure.
    Message 1 of 11 , May 31, 2000
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      > Tidy gives me this warning, but it is the last line of the doc,
      > so what is it telling me to do? My page ends with:
      >
      > </BODY>
      > </HTML>

      > line 79 column 1 - Warning: expected "html PUBLIC" or "html SYSTEM"

      debugger line numbers can be confusing
      most likely the error is with your Doctype declaration at the top of your
      document and Tidy is looking for closure.

      > CSEVAlidator 4 tells me about the font tag be done away with so
      > I went to CSS, but it still sees <FONT CLASS as a font tag. It
      > appears Tidy is telling me the same thing:
      >
      > You are recommended to use CSS to specify the font and
      > properties such as its size and color. This will reduce
      > the size of HTML files and make them easier maintain
      > compared with using <FONT> elements.
      > ----
      > Am I doing something that needs to be corrected?

      Let me quote myself from my "relearning Html" post :-I
      "Depreciated elements are elements which don't add significance or meaning
      to
      the text. What meaning does CENTER give to a piece of text or FONT etc?
      Zilch!. These elements don't tell us anything as to how the text should be
      meaningfully interpreted only how it should be displayed."

      So what do you use instead of all those Fonts. Choose an inline elements
      that best expreses your intent. em for emphasis strong for strong
      emphasis.and so on and if none of are good enough use the generic "span"
      element.
      In fact you could markup the body of a document with only 2 structural tags;
      the generic block DIV tag and the generic inline SPAN tag.
      In your case do NTP search and replace <FONT with <SPAN and </FONT with
      </SPAN
      and then in your stylesheet replace your font class selectors with span
      selectors.
      Now that should keep tidy and cse happy.

      ps Can't remember the last time I used a font tag. ya get used to it. but
      just in case.
      :-)
      ^!Url www.FontWithDrawalSociety.org
    • Jody
      Hi Grant, ... Tidy (vers 13th January 2000) Parsing console input (stdin) stdin appears to be HTML 4.0 Transitional no warnings or errors were found ;) I
      Message 2 of 11 , May 31, 2000
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        Hi Grant,

        >> line 79 column 1 - Warning: expected "html PUBLIC" or "html SYSTEM"
        >
        >debugger line numbers can be confusing

        Tidy (vers 13th January 2000) Parsing console input (stdin)

        "stdin" appears to be HTML 4.0 Transitional
        no warnings or errors were found

        ;)

        I took off the last half of the following, because I thought
        it was a like to www.w3.org and those are the guys causing me
        all these headaches. ;)

        <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

        > What meaning does CENTER give to a piece of text or FONT etc?
        > Zilch!. These elements don't tell us anything as to how the
        > text should be meaningfully interpreted only how it should be
        > displayed."

        Gee, guy, FONT tells me a whole lot more than SPAN. <EM> Hmm?
        Did I make that red on this one, was it bold, gee, how many pts
        was it. Hmm? What was the name of that .css file - oh yeah, its
        at the top of the doc, scroll, get filename, etc. open .css
        file... look, close, scroll... uh, why did I go looking for
        that... ... ... ARGH, oh yeah, I remember - know where was I at
        in the doc... ... scroll down, scroll up, scroll down... ;)

        FONT tells me right there where I am looking at it the size,
        color, face... one look and I know - right then.

        > Now that should keep tidy and cse happy.

        Yes, but not Jody. I like some of it, but I think other stuff
        stinks. xhtml for instance. What's the big deal with not
        allowing uppercase tags and lower case attributes. I really do
        not think it is going to take up that much bandwidth. <g> So
        what if I use upper - who should care unless it is some program
        specific thing for dynamic stuff. Then OK, I don't have a
        problem with it. But just to come out and say The *committee"
        decided you have to do it in lowercase is for the birds. If so,
        I'll have to make me a XHTML button with a big red circleX over
        it for my pages. Maybe even a water drop background. ;)

        > ^!Url www.FontWithDrawalSociety.org

        I'll look later. Thanks.

        Thanks!
        Jody

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      • Jody
        Hi Grant, ... A joke right? :) The online Validator at w3g won t pass me until I take out my bordercolorlight/dark. OH well, I guess I won t pass on those
        Message 3 of 11 , May 31, 2000
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          Hi Grant,

          >^!Url www.FontWithDrawalSociety.org

          A joke right? :)

          The online Validator at w3g won't pass me until I take out my
          bordercolorlight/dark. OH well, I guess I won't pass on those
          pages. Bobby likes my pages though and I feel that is a very
          high honor to get. ;) To be honest with you, I think I will just
          take what I have learned and use the browsers as my validators.
          If it looks good in them - I really don't care what w3g and xhtml
          think. I would rather it look good for people than have to be
          chained up by rules and not be able to do things I would like. I
          do appreciate all you have taught me, so don't take the above the
          wrong way. It is way past my bed time and I'm tired and grumpy
          too. -- Sometimes I wake up grumpy in the morning, but I usually
          let her sleep. ;)

          Bye for now,
          Jody Adair
          Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

          http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
          http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
          http://www.sureword.com/notetab
        • Red Leader
          ... Amen to that! ... Emmett Hawkins
          Message 4 of 11 , May 31, 2000
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            Jody wrote:

            > To be honest with you, I think I will just
            > take what I have learned and use the browsers as my validators.
            > If it looks good in them - I really don't care what w3g and xhtml
            > think.

            Amen to that!

            ---
            Emmett Hawkins
          • Ian Ornstein
            Hmmm... As I understand it, correct me if I have it wrong, part of the rational for xhtml is to overcome past abuses in the use of HTML. We are rapidly comming
            Message 5 of 11 , May 31, 2000
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              Hmmm...
              As I understand it, correct me if I have it wrong,
              part of the rational for xhtml is to overcome past abuses in the use
              of HTML.

              We are rapidly comming into the development for more portable devices
              like cell phones and Dick Tracy wristwatches. Whereas the big browsers
              could exist as bloatware (11mg downloads) so that they could
              accomodate
              good and bad HTML, the new devices will have their brower on a chip
              and will *only* function with good code.
              This means follow the rules: proper nesting, closing tags etc.
              It seems to me that it is not too soon to get in the habit of passing
              some kind of validation - choose your exceptions and either agree
              with them
              or fix the code.

              Of course all this depends on the expected life of your pages ;-)

              So I do care what xhtml thinks.
              - IanO -
              ps I am as confused as the next developer as to what needs to be
              in the <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0
              Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/loose.dtd">
              line. I admit that I haven't taken the time to learn about it and
              occasionally it is the cause of my page not working as I expect.
              This discussion is motivating me to find out more about it.
            • Jody
              Hi Ian, As I understand it, correct me if I have it wrong, part of the rational for xhtml is to overcome past abuses in the use of HTML. That is what I
              Message 6 of 11 , May 31, 2000
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                Hi Ian, > As I understand it, correct me if I have it wrong, part of the > rational for xhtml is to overcome past abuses in the use of > HTML. That is what I understand also. > This means follow the rules: proper nesting, closing tags etc. > It seems to me that it is not too soon to get in the habit of > passing some kind of validation - choose your exceptions and > either agree with them or fix the code. I don't have a problem with proper coding, but I do when they start getting nit picky. WC3 doesn't allow bordercolordark and light, etc. Why not just take out border altogether and all text color and while their at it images too? Not that I care for MS, but they do have some good ideas every now and then. ;) > Of course all this depends on the expected life of your pages ;-) True and how much one is concerned how many devices he can display in. > So I do care what xhtml thinks. Good for you! I hope all the Dick Tracey fans can view your big images on their watch face. I am reall
                y only concerned that the majority of PC's can get some kind of presentable/readable page. > is used on the first line and just says the doc appears to be HTML. I'll probably continue to validate a page a day and maybe just start building Clips as I go to replace tags with the new and eventually get all of them in one Clip that should cover my 5000 or whatever web pages depending on what I felt like doing on each one of them and what program I made them with. Some of my pages pass first time through believe it or not. ;)

                Happy HTML'n!
                Jody

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              • Michael Gerholdt
                Jody, There is a little confusion about the notion of validity which I hope to knock out of that head of yours! When you say that WC3 doesn t allow
                Message 7 of 11 , May 31, 2000
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                  Jody,

                  There is a little confusion about the notion of "validity" which I hope to
                  knock out of that head of yours!

                  When you say that WC3 "doesn't allow" bordercolor stuff - that's not exactly
                  what's happening here. That tag is proprietary and was created by a browser
                  vendor. It is not part of the HTML specifications in any version. When an
                  SMGL parser comes along to check your HTML code and finds something there
                  that isn't part of the specification, then it has no choice but to say that
                  "this doesn't qualify as valid HTML ...."

                  Now I consider myself rather a purist regarding HTML. I use the validator to
                  check my pages. But if I run across something like the above that causes my
                  page not to validate, I am not concerned. Why? Because I know that other
                  browsers that do not support TOPMARGIN or BORDERCOLOR or the like simply
                  ignore the tag. It causes no problems. Therefore I can make an informed
                  decision that this page will fail validity because I have chosen to use a
                  tag which doesn't exist in the HTML specifications, yet I choose to use it
                  because I like how it works in browser X.

                  So my pages will not all validate. But I will not have a page which fails
                  validation because I write sloppy code in general.

                  Validation is a tool to use for your use, not a slavemaster. WC3 does not
                  mind if you use TOPMARGIN on your page, or BORDERCOLOR either. They are just
                  tags which are, properly speaking, not HTML at all.

                  You are not under the law! Yet you might find the law to be useful.

                  Bottom line: use validation to write good code. Break specs when you know
                  the consequences and take responsibility for them.

                  Regards,
                  Michael Gerholdt
                  SUNY College at Fredonia

                  > I don't have a problem with proper coding, but I do when they start
                  getting nit picky. WC3 doesn't allow bordercolordark and light, etc. Why not
                  just take out border altogether and all text color and while their at it
                  images too?
                • Jody
                  Hi Michael, ... Thanks - that is the way I was starting to feel - that I was under the law. I guess I wanted w3c to say like my boy would say, Good job Jody
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 31, 2000
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                    Hi Michael,

                    > You are not under the law! Yet you might find the law to be
                    > useful.
                    >
                    > Bottom line: use validation to write good code. Break specs
                    > when you know the consequences and take responsibility for them.

                    Thanks - that is the way I was starting to feel - that I was
                    under the law.

                    I guess I wanted w3c to say like my boy would say, "Good job
                    Jody" since everybody else is happy, even Bobby. :)

                    I guess I could take it could, save, and hit my upload icon on my
                    Clipbar, validate so I get my pat on the back, undo the changes,
                    save, and upload. <bg> I could do that faster in NoteTab than
                    some people would take to find their ftp program. :)

                    Happy HTML'n!
                    Jody

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                  • Grant
                    ... DOCTYPE the type of document in your case is a
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jun 1, 2000
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                      > I took off the last half of the following, because I thought
                      > it was a like to www.w3.org and those are the guys causing me
                      > all these headaches. ;)
                      >
                      >
                      <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
                      "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

                      DOCTYPE the type of document in your case is a PUBLIC document based on the
                      HTML 4.01 Transitional DTD.
                      first quote is the name of the DTD
                      "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
                      the 2nd quote is the url where the DTD can be found.
                      "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"

                      .The DTD (document type definition) defines exactly what elements and
                      attributes can be contained in your document.
                      When you validate a document you validate it against the DTD that the
                      document is linked to.

                      If you set the doctype to system then you can locate the DTD on your
                      harddrive.
                      <!DOCTYPE HTML system "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
                      "C:\dtds\loose.dtd">

                      There is nothing stopping you altering this local DTD and give certain
                      elements attributes like TOPMARGIN, BORDERCOLOR or any other attributes you
                      like so it will comply to a certain propriety browser. If you use these
                      attrributes in your document and defined these attributes in the DTD then
                      your document would VALIDATE. In short validation has got nothing to do with
                      how a browser displays your documents but whether or not it complies to a
                      DTD.

                      IMHO every HTML clipbook library should be based on a DTD.The xhtml library
                      being based on the xhtml strict DTD is an example how this can be done. In
                      fact the library is an attempt to translate a DTD into a clip library.
                      If you want to check it out the xhtml library is available at.
                      www.markup.co.nz/xhtml/libraries/xhtml.zip
                    • Grant
                      ... Pro loose.dtd ... If you want to customise the DTD Doctype needs to be set to system not public.
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jun 2, 2000
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                        > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//w3c//dtd HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "E:\NoteTab
                        Pro\loose.dtd">
                        >
                        If you want to customise the DTD Doctype needs to be set to system not
                        public.
                        <!DOCTYPE HTML SYSTEM

                        The following article shows how you can validate your document by
                        customising a DTD
                        http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/customdtd.html

                        you also might want to check out the discusion of the difference between
                        lints and validators.
                        http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/differences.html

                        >I tried the following in my .dtd file with and without %Color;
                        >but Tidy still reports it. ???

                        TIDY doesn't lay claim to be a validator and as far I am aware it is not DTD
                        aware. It just checks that your markup is wellformed and that it complies
                        with w3c recomendations.
                        I'm not quite sure whether customising the DTD would work with the cse
                        validator The above article says it is a lint not a real.validator.

                        Just checked the CSE site.....
                        In a reply to a post the CSE author Albert Wiersch said

                        "CSE does not read DTDs.

                        I will look into XHTML more for the next major upgrade. There are some
                        features you can check now to help you:
                        XML Compatibility
                        Require optional closing tags
                        Require lowercase tags and attributes
                        Require quoted attribute values

                        I think checking the above will help. Those options are in the Validator 2
                        tab in the Validator Engine Options. "
                        http://www.htmlvalidator.com/phorum/read.php3?num=4&id=46&loc=1&thread=45&
                      • Jody
                        Hi Grant, ... Ah, maybe that is my problem. ;) ... OH, I must have misunderstood you. I was trying to get Tidy not to check for bordercolor... ... I know. :)
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jun 2, 2000
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                          Hi Grant,

                          > If you want to customise the DTD Doctype needs to be set to
                          > system not public.
                          > <!DOCTYPE HTML SYSTEM

                          Ah, maybe that is my problem. ;)

                          >> I tried the following in my .dtd file with and without %Color;
                          >> but Tidy still reports it. ???
                          >
                          > TIDY doesn't lay claim to be a validator and as far I am aware
                          > it is not DTD aware.

                          OH, I must have misunderstood you. I was trying to get Tidy not
                          to check for bordercolor...

                          > Just checked the CSE site.....
                          > In a reply to a post the CSE author Albert Wiersch said
                          >
                          > "CSE does not read DTDs.

                          I know. :) Tidy is the one complaining.

                          > I will look into XHTML more for the next major upgrade.

                          OK, but that won't interest me. I won't use all lowercase until
                          forced to. The reason I asked before about using your library
                          and then making it all upper tag, lower attribute was I would
                          get a strict validation, but then change the case and change
                          <!DocType after that.

                          Thanks!
                          Jody

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