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Re: [NH] Form

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  • Jody
    Hi Stefan, ... Yes, but if you look at any text book, at least the ones I have seen, block quotes are always indented evenly on both sides. Although, I suppose
    Message 1 of 22 , May 24, 2000
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      Hi Stefan,

      > So I think you should be happy that you get no quotation marks
      > around your constructs, at least. ;-)

      Yes, but if you look at any text book, at least the ones I have
      seen, block quotes are always indented evenly on both sides.
      Although, I suppose there are some publishers that refuse to be
      associated with the others. <bg>

      I submitted a bug report to Opera anyway whether it is or not. At
      any rate, the indentation shifts on the right side depending on
      how many <BQ>s are used. To me, that in itself is wrong. If
      they don't want to be like M$, and I don't blame them (except for
      cases like this), then at least make the right side even all the
      way.

      Anyhow, I guess I have to start relearning HTML and unlearning all
      my "bad" habits. :( Don't those guys have anything else better to
      do than make more work for us all. <g> I know, it is for the
      better trying to get to a standard of some type.

      Bye for now,
      Jody Adair
      Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

      http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
      http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
      http://www.sureword.com/notetab
    • Lotta
      Hi All, ... I think you would find WDG s HTML 4.0 Reference useful. Definitions of terms like Element is found under Structure of a HTML 4.0 Document . The
      Message 2 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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        Hi All,

        Jody wrote:

        >Is there an online dictionary like Web-O-Mania for HTML terms?
        >As far as I am concerned an "element" is what one puts his pot of
        >grits on and turns on the stove to cook them. ;)

        I think you would find WDG's 'HTML 4.0 Reference useful. Definitions of
        terms like 'Element' is found under 'Structure of a HTML 4.0 Document'.

        The whole thing can be down loaded in .chm. It's very comprehensive yet
        easy to use.

        Glad you are beginning to see the light regarding Blockquotes ;)

        Bye,

        Lotta
      • Jody
        Hi Lotta, ... Thanks - I ll hunt for it. ... There is really no light to see except that when it don t make sense you can bet there is a buck in it. The way I
        Message 3 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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          Hi Lotta,

          > I think you would find WDG's 'HTML 4.0 Reference useful.
          > Definitions of terms like 'Element' is found under 'Structure
          > of a HTML 4.0 Document'.

          Thanks - I'll hunt for it.

          > Glad you are beginning to see the light regarding Blockquotes ;)

          There is really no light to see except that when it don't make
          sense you can bet there is a buck in it.

          The way I see it is HTML use to be very easy so the average Joe
          could come along and learn it. They are trying to make it into a
          real language that is to difficult or time consuming to learn so
          people will have to pay people to do it. That is my take on it
          anyway.

          So far, I cannot see any advantage in speed of me making a style
          sheet so I can block quote over just clicking on my clip a few
          times and be done with it. I am sure .css is better else it
          would not be so popular, but then programmers knock NoteTab's
          scripting code the way it is written all the time. However, I
          would probably have never learned it had it looked like PERL or
          RegExp.

          Bye for now,
          Jody Adair
          Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

          http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
          http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
          http://www.sureword.com/notetab
        • Lotta
          Jody, ... OOops. HTML Help by The Web Design Group: http://www.htmlhelp.com/ ... The thing is HTML was never constructed for presentation. So people jammed
          Message 4 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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            Jody,


            >thanks - I'll hunt for it.

            OOops.

            HTML Help by The Web Design Group:
            http://www.htmlhelp.com/


            >So far, I cannot see any advantage in speed of me making a style
            >sheet so I can block quote over just clicking on my clip a few
            >times and be done with it. I am sure .css is better else it
            >would not be so popular, but then programmers knock NoteTab's

            The thing is HTML was never constructed for presentation. So people jammed
            things into structural or formatting tags, like Blockquote. CSS will take
            care of the presentational stuff.

            But when it comes to wanting all to be able to access your page, which I
            guess is the case since you're concerned about Opera, one has to be careful
            with CSS too. My Netscpe 4.5 don't understand much of it. Don't know for
            the new version. IE is better and Opera is said to be a wiz.

            Here's to the Golden Middle Way!

            Lotta








            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >Failed tests, classes skipped, forgotten locker combinations.
            >Remember the good 'ol days
            >http://click.egroups.com/1/4053/8/_/2799/_/959240940/
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          • Jody
            Hi Lotta, ... Already got it and one on css, but could not find a .chm which I prefer over .hlp or .html. ... So, we re back to a browser
            Message 5 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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              Hi Lotta,

              > HTML Help by The Web Design Group:
              > http://www.htmlhelp.com/

              Already got it and one on css, but could not find a .chm which I
              prefer over .hlp or .html.

              > But when it comes to wanting all to be able to access your
              > page, which I guess is the case since you're concerned about
              > Opera, one has to be careful with CSS too. My Netscpe 4.5 don't
              > understand much of it. Don't know for the new version. IE is
              > better and Opera is said to be a wiz.

              <Jody on soap box>
              So, we're back to a browser thing. It all just does not make any
              sense to me that all those knuckle heads running the show can't
              get their rear ends out of their heads and get their act
              together. I would like to see a ball park figure in perhaps
              decades of how many hours web authors both the serious and ones
              like me that just dabble with it have spent (or needlessly
              wasted) trying to make it so their site can be viewed by
              visitors. Gee, do we have to go back to the Best viewed in IE
              buttons or Optimized for Netscape? It is a crying shame that all
              the hours spent by us should have been solved years ago, but as
              far as I can tell it hasn't got much better. I understand that
              OS' play a part too. They too need to start working with each
              other. All those knuckle heads need to get together and say
              OK, this is how were going to do it and DO IT!
              </Jody on soap box>

              Next thing you know, the tag above will be obsolete. Either
              Eudora, PMail, Messenger, or whichever won't view it correctly.
              ARGH! ;)

              Happy HTML'n!
              Jody

              http://www.sureword.com/notetab

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            • Lotta
              Hi, ... For HTML 4.0 there is a .chm for CSS there isn t. Both are offered in other formats too, should anyone prefer something else. ... That s true. But on
              Message 6 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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                Hi,


                > > http://www.htmlhelp.com/
                >
                >Already got it and one on css, but could not find a .chm which I
                >prefer over .hlp or .html.

                For HTML 4.0 there is a .chm for CSS there isn't. Both are offered in other
                formats too, should anyone prefer something else.



                > >one has to be careful with CSS too.
                > >My Netscpe 4.5 don't
                > > understand much of it. Don't know for the new version. IE is
                > > better and Opera is said to be a wiz.
                >
                ><Jody on soap box>
                >So, we're back to a browser thing. It all just does not make any
                >sense to me that all those knuckle heads running the show can't
                >get their rear ends out of their heads and get their act
                >together.


                That's true. But on the other hand one can't expect a software written
                several years ago to understand W3C latest decrees. But for basic CSS they
                have had some time, I think.

                Not being an expert, I humbly think that basic HTML with careful use of CSS
                is probably the best way to go if one wants the page to be 'accessible to
                all'. And I think that most pages should be that.

                On the other hand, if one wants to play around - use whatever. If I want a
                site for me and my friends I don't care if the rest of the world can view
                it. One can always put a warning on the index to scare off any stray
                surfers ;).

                On Browsers - IE is evil in it's special way as it allows for vary bad
                coding and kindly display the page correctly anyway. This result in that
                it's very tricky to learn HTML using IE. "If it looks right I must have
                done it right". Two month later one adds something to this perfect site and
                everything collapses. "Why? I KNOW I had done every thing right." Great
                mystery!

                Opera - here I come!

                Lotta
              • Jody
                Hi Lotta, ... Where? :) I ll answer the rest of your post later. Doing ClipClass now. Happy HTML n! Jody http://www.sureword.com/notetab The NoteTab and Html
                Message 7 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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                  Hi Lotta,

                  >> > http://www.htmlhelp.com/

                  >For HTML 4.0 there is a .chm

                  Where? :)

                  I'll answer the rest of your post later. Doing ClipClass now.

                  Happy HTML'n!
                  Jody

                  http://www.sureword.com/notetab

                  The NoteTab and Html List...
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                • Lotta
                  Hi, I m lying my head off! I went to WDG to check were they had hidden it and then it hit me. The .chm that I ve got is included in my validator. When I got
                  Message 8 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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                    Hi,

                    I'm lying my head off!

                    I went to WDG to check were they had hidden it and then it hit me. The .chm
                    that I've got is included in my validator. When I got the validator I took
                    the Reference out and put it were I have had the old .hlp. I had forgotten
                    it had ever looked different.

                    My excuses
                    Lotta
                  • Lotta
                    Hi, I m lying my head off! I went to WDG to check were they had hidden it and then it hit me. The .chm that I ve got is included in my validator. When I got
                    Message 9 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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                      Hi,

                      I'm lying my head off!

                      I went to WDG to check were they had hidden it and then it hit me. The .chm
                      that I've got is included in my validator. When I got the validator I took
                      the Reference out and put it were I have had the old .hlp. I had forgotten
                      it had ever looked different.

                      My excuses
                      Lotta
                    • Jody
                      Hi Lotta, ... No problem. I just found out there is one in my Top Style. OK, I did my first one. ;) But I obviously have to be missing a very big point
                      Message 10 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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                        Hi Lotta,

                        > I went to WDG to check were they had hidden it and then it hit
                        > me. The .chm that I've got is included in my validator. When I
                        > got the validator I took the Reference out and put it were I
                        > have had the old .hlp. I had forgotten it had ever looked
                        > different.

                        No problem. I just found out there is one in my Top Style. <bg>

                        OK, I did my first one. ;)

                        But I obviously have to be missing a very big point here. Below
                        is good for one font tag. Now, I want to use about say 10 different
                        colors in my page. Using the old method which CSEVal... says is
                        getting replaced by .css I would wrap the text in it. In other
                        words show me how I make red white and blue font colors to use in
                        three places.

                        FONT
                        {
                        font-family : times;
                        font-style : normal;
                        color: blue;
                        }

                        Also, <CENTER> is to be replaced. I already have P equaling
                        "justify." How do I center text now without using H1, etc.

                        Thanks!
                        Jody

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                      • elssner@gmx.net
                        Hi Jody, ... Yes to all. ;-) There is a really good and somewhat easy to understand introduction to CSS in part three of our all father-and-mother-of-Tidy Dave
                        Message 11 of 22 , May 25, 2000
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                          Hi Jody,

                          >
                          > OK, after studying it a bit and seeing how it worked I said to
                          > myself, "Self, you know, this doesn't appear to be as hard as it
                          > looks. Maybe an ignernt hillbilly like you can learn himself
                          > it." ;)
                          >
                          > From what I can see is in the definition area (?) that the tags
                          > are defined there and wherever used in the document body it will
                          > ...

                          Yes to all. ;-)

                          There is a really good and somewhat easy to understand introduction to
                          CSS in part three of our all father-and-mother-of-Tidy Dave Ragget's
                          HTML tutorial. There is a link to it somewhere on the Tidy home page,
                          as far as I remember.

                          Happy CSSin' ! *g*

                          Stefan
                          ---
                          elssner@...
                        • William K. Hardeman
                          Jody, You define different font classes to get the different colors. For example, the FONT definition you gave might be for your default page font, while the
                          Message 12 of 22 , May 26, 2000
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                            Jody,

                            You define different font classes to get the different colors. For example, the FONT definition you
                            gave might be for your default page font, while the others might be

                            FONT.RED
                            {
                            font-family : times;
                            font-style : normal;
                            color: red;
                            }

                            FONT.WHITE
                            {
                            font-family : times;
                            font-style : normal;
                            color: white;
                            }

                            FONT.ETC...

                            Then, in your <font> tags, you would change the color by using the class definition via <font
                            class=RED> to use any color other than the default one. Or, if you prefer to create classes that
                            are not tied to a tag, just do the same as above, but don't use the FONT, just the .WHATEVER
                            (dot WHATEVER). Then, you can refer to those classes in areas outside of FONT tags, doing
                            away with them all together.

                            Hope this helps,
                            Will

                            On 25 May 00, at 8:22, Jody said:

                            > Hi Lotta,
                            >
                            <snip>
                            >
                            > But I obviously have to be missing a very big point here. Below
                            > is good for one font tag. Now, I want to use about say 10 different
                            > colors in my page. Using the old method which CSEVal... says is
                            > getting replaced by .css I would wrap the text in it. In other
                            > words show me how I make red white and blue font colors to use in
                            > three places.
                            >
                            > FONT
                            > {
                            > font-family : times;
                            > font-style : normal;
                            > color: blue;
                            > }
                            >
                            <snip>

                            Truly great madness can not be achieved without significant
                            intelligence. (Henrik Tikkanen)

                            The closest distance between two people is a good laugh. - Leo Bascalia
                          • Jody
                            Hi Grant, ... test Thanks - don t know what I would use it for, but it may come in handy sometime. ... I couldn t find the
                            Message 13 of 22 , May 29, 2000
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                              Hi Grant,

                              > Some notes on Take 48
                              >
                              > in UL can only contain a LI element but if you want to nest
                              > unordered lists LI can contain UL

                              <UL>
                              <LI>
                              <UL>
                              test
                              </UL>
                              </LI>
                              </UL>

                              Thanks - don't know what I would use it for, but it may come
                              in handy sometime.

                              > A plug..You might want to try my xhtml library
                              > www.markup.co.nz/xhtml/libraries/xhtml.zip

                              I couldn't find the Clip(s) to check the tags, etc. Nice Libraries
                              though and I see you added your Clipbar. ;)

                              A suggestion to add to certain Clips. ^!SetScreenUpdate Off makes
                              a number of them faster and much easier on the eyes. ;) Check out the difference in your select tag Clip in xhtml.

                              -selectTag
                              ^!SetScreenUpdate Off

                              Bye for now,
                              Jody Adair
                              Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

                              http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
                              http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
                              http://www.sureword.com/notetab
                            • Grant
                              ... Try selecting any text with tags then attempt to wrap with a provided clip element. Try a few badly formed wraps. eg; In trying to wrap without the
                              Message 14 of 22 , May 30, 2000
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                                > I couldn't find the Clip(s) to check the tags, etc.

                                Try selecting any text with tags then attempt to wrap with a provided clip
                                element.
                                Try a few badly formed wraps.
                                eg; In trying to wrap </ul> without the opening <ul> an infobox will report
                                "You are trying to wrap a closing tag. Where is the opening tag?"
                                eg; try to wrap Ul element with another Ul element and an infobox will
                                report
                                "You cannot wrap Element <ul> with <ul>
                                valid Tags for <ul> are li".

                                This does prevent all cases of syntactically bad wrapping but I think does a
                                reasonble job to prevent some common markup typos.

                                Nice Libraries
                                > though and I see you added your Clipbar. ;)
                                Ok so I cheated a bit and appropiated the existing icons to suit my own
                                purposes. If I've got the time I'll create my own icons. Know of a good icon
                                editor?

                                > A suggestion to add to certain Clips. ^!SetScreenUpdate Off makes
                                > a number of them faster and much easier on the eyes. ;) Check out the
                                difference in your select tag Clip in xhtml.

                                Good idea and I'll see where else I can apply this.

                                I have now added a new "element_can_contain" button , when cursor placed on
                                an existing tag and pressed will present in an info box a list of acceptable
                                tags that can follow. This should help those learning xhtml.
                                Library can be downloaded at.
                                www.markup.co.nz/xhtml/libraries/xhtml.zip
                              • Jody
                                Hi Grant, ... OK, will do. ... I normally use PSP for my .bmp s for NoteTab. If you use .ico NoteTab has to convert them. I have a mess of different image
                                Message 15 of 22 , May 30, 2000
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                                  Hi Grant,

                                  > Try selecting any text with tags then attempt to wrap with a
                                  > provided clip element. Try a few badly formed wraps.

                                  OK, will do.

                                  > Ok so I cheated a bit and appropiated the existing icons to
                                  > suit my own purposes. If I've got the time I'll create my own
                                  > icons. Know of a good icon editor?

                                  I normally use PSP for my .bmp's for NoteTab. If you use .ico
                                  NoteTab has to convert them. I have a mess of different image
                                  software, PSP the only shareware. From my NoteView Clipbar:

                                  Requires NoteTab v4.81 or above

                                  H="NoteView"
                                  http://www.sureword.com/notetab/zip/noteview/zip

                                  H="Get BKColour Coder"
                                  ^!Url ftp://sunsite.cnlab-switch.ch/mirror/winsite/winnt/netutil/coder20.exe


                                  H="Get Embellish"
                                  ^!Url http://www.dadaware.com


                                  H="Get IconEdit32"
                                  ^!Url ftp://zdftp.zdnet.com/pub/private/sWlIB/graphics_multimedia_tools/icon_tools/pcmicone.zip


                                  H="Get IconJack32"
                                  ^!Url ftp://ftp.zdnet.com/pcmag/2000/0509/ijack32.zip

                                  H="Get IconMaker"
                                  ^!Url ftp://ftp.euro.net/d5/simtelnet/win95/icon/imak05.zip


                                  H="Get I_View"
                                  ^!Url http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e9227474/


                                  H="Get LView Pro"
                                  ^!Url ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/garbo/garbo_win/graphics/lviewp1b.zip


                                  H="Get Psp"
                                  ^!Url http://www.psp.com

                                  H=LView Pro Image Editor
                                  ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/garbo/garbo_win/graphics/lviewp1b.zip

                                  H=Icon Maker
                                  ftp://ftp.euro.net/d5/simtelnet/win95/icon/imak05.zip

                                  > www.markup.co.nz/xhtml/libraries/xhtml.zip

                                  If I do xhtml can I turn right around and use NoteTab's Tags to
                                  uppercase? Why do you use xhtml over regular html and, in short,
                                  what is the difference as far as a weekend page builder would use
                                  them for?

                                  Also, I can mess around with Tidy.cfg a bit and figured out how
                                  to adjust indent or none at all, but how do I make it not do
                                  anything to my existing format?

                                  Happy HTML'n!
                                  Jody

                                  http://www.sureword.com/notetab

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                                • Grant
                                  Hi Jody Thanks for the list of URLs ... Yes but it won t be xhtml because xhtml is case sensitive and the case of tags and thier attributes must all be in
                                  Message 16 of 22 , May 31, 2000
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                                    Hi Jody
                                    Thanks for the list of URLs

                                    > If I do xhtml can I turn right around and use NoteTab's Tags to
                                    > uppercase?

                                    Yes but it won't be xhtml because xhtml is case sensitive and the case of
                                    tags and thier attributes must all be in lower case.

                                    >Why do you use xhtml over regular html and, in short,
                                    > what is the difference as far as a weekend page builder would use
                                    > them for?

                                    For beginners ---
                                    Mark up with xhtml is easier to learn than html as as the xhtml markup rules
                                    are more consistent than html.
                                    all tags and attributes in lower case
                                    all tags must be closed. eg; <p>closed with </p>
                                    Attribute values must always be quoted.
                                    and so on ... refer to the following one page w3c doc
                                    http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1

                                    Also xhtml ought to produce a cleaner and more easily readible and alterable
                                    markup.

                                    For advanced user.
                                    With xhtml you get the ease and familiarity of html with the power of xml.
                                    When you markup with xhtml what you get is "a reformulation of HTML 4 as an
                                    XML 1.0 application".
                                    If your xhtml document is well formed and valid then you can parse it as XML
                                    and use the DOM to manipulate it and CSS to style it. In an ms enviroment
                                    this means you can use the ms COM object. "microsoft.xmldom" and use the
                                    scriptable properties and methods available for that object. There are also
                                    various perl and java xml parsers you can use. It's early stages yet but it
                                    seems the futures is xml. I don't know who said it I think the quote is
                                    "Xhtml is the bridge between the past and future web"

                                    > Also, I can mess around with Tidy.cfg a bit and figured out how
                                    > to adjust indent or none at all, but how do I make it not do
                                    > anything to my existing format?

                                    set "markup" config declaration to "no".

                                    "markup: bool
                                    Determines whether Tidy generates a pretty printed version of the markup.
                                    Bool values are either yes or no. Note that Tidy won't generate a pretty
                                    printed version if it finds unknown tags, or missing trailing quotes on
                                    attribute values, or missing trailing '>' on tags. The default is yes. "

                                    The xhtml library has a wizard to help build a tidy config file. You can
                                    access the config file wizard by holding ctrl down while pressing the tidy
                                    button.
                                  • Jody
                                    Hi Grant, Thanks for the info in the other posts. I tried the following in my .dtd file with and without %Color; but Tidy still reports it. ???
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jun 2, 2000
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                                      Hi Grant,

                                      Thanks for the info in the other posts.

                                      I tried the following in my .dtd file with and without %Color;
                                      but Tidy still reports it. ???

                                      <!ATTLIST TABLE -- table element --
                                      <snip>
                                      bgcolor %Color; #IMPLIED -- background color for cells --
                                      bordercolorlight #IMPLIED -- bordercolor for IE tables --
                                      bordercolordark #IMPLIED -- bordercolor for IE tables --
                                      bordercolor #IMPLIED -- bordercolor for IE tables --
                                      >

                                      <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//w3c//dtd HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" "E:\NoteTab Pro\loose.dtd">

                                      Thanks!
                                      Jody

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