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OFFTOPIC Popfile IE vs Firefox HTML puzzle

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  • Alec Burgess
    Hi HTML, Proxomitron and Notetab-HTML guru s (crossposted to Proxomitron and Notetab-HTML lists) This page:
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 12, 2004
      Hi HTML, Proxomitron and Notetab-HTML guru's
      (crossposted to Proxomitron and Notetab-HTML lists)

      This page:
      http://s89507451.onlinehome.us//popfile/PopfileOceanSkin/configuration.htm

      which uses this skin:
      http://s89507451.onlinehome.us//popfile/PopfileOceanSkin/configuration%5ffiles/style.css

      is generated by Popfile. When viewed in Firefox it has NAV buttons at the
      top which float down the page as it is scrolled - ie. the buttons stay at
      the top while the contents of the page scroll underneath.

      when same page is viewed in IE the buttons don't float which I understand is
      a limitation of how IE works so not a problem, but ...

      when this page is viewed in IE, if you attempt to select any text (usually
      to copy to the clipboard or view partial source) the selection applied is
      from beginning of the page to the "insertion point".

      I'm seeing this usiNG IE-6 SP1 Win2K SP4. Another user with Win98 reports
      that for him the selection is applied from the selection point to
      end-of-page instead of top-of-page.

      The author of the skin says he hasn't got a clue what is going on.

      *QUESTION*
      Just wondering if any of the HTML wizards that frequent this/these lists
      have any explanation for the aberrant behaviour in IE.

      fwiw: I tried the same page in Opera and it behaves identically to Firefox -
      NAV buttons "float" and select for copy works as expected.

      I ran it through HTML tidy and got these warnings reported but don't see any
      reason they'd make a difference.
      >>>
      line 426 column 13 - Warning: trimming empty <p>
      line 700 column 6 - Warning: <input> Anchor "configPopPort" already defined
      line 728 column 6 - Warning: <input> Anchor "configSeparator" already
      defined
      line 804 column 6 - Warning: <input> Anchor "SOCKSServer" already defined
      line 828 column 6 - Warning: <input> Anchor "configSOCKSPort" already
      defined
      line 878 column 18 - Warning: <input> Anchor "windowTrayIconOn" already
      defined
      line 912 column 17 - Warning: <input> Anchor "configPopPort" already defined
      line 942 column 6 - Warning: <input> Anchor "SOCKSServer" already defined
      line 966 column 6 - Warning: <input> Anchor "configSOCKSPort" already
      defined
      line 1070 column 18 - Warning: <input> Anchor "windowTrayIconOff" already
      defined
      <<<
      Regards ... Alec
      --
    • loro
      ... One of IE6 s many odd CSS bugs. Caused by the absolute positioning, most likely. Usually you can get rid of it by putting IE in Quirks Mode and it works in
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 13, 2004
        Alec Burgess wrote:
        >when this page is viewed in IE, if you attempt to select any text (usually
        >to copy to the clipboard or view partial source) the selection applied is
        >from beginning of the page to the "insertion point".

        One of IE6's many odd CSS bugs. Caused by the absolute positioning, most
        likely. Usually you can get rid of it by putting IE in Quirks Mode and it
        works in this case. If you want to do that is another matter, of course.

        Lotta
      • Alec Burgess
        Lotta: The page I posted has this DOCTYPE: Googling for
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 13, 2004
          Lotta:

          The page I posted has this DOCTYPE:
          <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
          "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

          Googling for doctype quirks amongst hundreds of hits shows this page:
          http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
          (old I guess? - it only goes up to HTML 4.0)

          Someone on the Prox list echoed your advice about the problem being
          Position: absolute. Changing this to Position: relative in the styles.css
          for the content section seems to have done the trick.

          From what I've read, I assume changing the css style to relative is the
          prefered option especially if the intent is to have standards compliant
          code. Just curious, how would the the above doctype be rewritten to put it
          into quirks mode? Is it as simple as just removing the <!DOCTYPE> from the
          document or is choosing one of the other possiblities more "correct"?

          Regards ... Alec
          --


          ---- Original Message ----
          From: "loro" <loro-spam01-@...>
          To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 20:31
          Subject: [gla: Re: [NH] OFFTOPIC Popfile IE vs Firefox HTML
          puzzle

          > Alec Burgess wrote:
          >> when this page is viewed in IE, if you attempt to select
          >> any text (usually to copy to the clipboard or view
          >> partial source) the selection applied is from beginning
          >> of the page to the "insertion point".
          >
          > One of IE6's many odd CSS bugs. Caused by the absolute
          > positioning, most likely. Usually you can get rid of it
          > by putting IE in Quirks Mode and it works in this case.
          > If you want to do that is another matter, of course.
        • loro
          ... I think the same goes for 4.01 as for 4.0. You might need these too.
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 13, 2004
            >Googling for doctype quirks amongst hundreds of hits shows this page:
            >http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
            >(old I guess? - it only goes up to HTML 4.0)

            I think the same goes for 4.01 as for 4.0. You might need these too.

            <http://www.hut.fi/u/hsivonen/doctype.html>
            <http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch/table.html>
            <http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/quirks/doctypes.html>
            <http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/doctype/>

            > >From what I've read, I assume changing the css style to relative is the
            >prefered option especially if the intent is to have standards compliant
            >code.

            Well, no. Relative and absolute accomplishes different things and both are
            very much standards.

            >Just curious, how would the the above doctype be rewritten to put it
            >into quirks mode? Is it as simple as just removing the <!DOCTYPE> from the
            >document or is choosing one of the other possiblities more "correct"?

            Remove it, change it according to the tables above (basically to an
            URL-less doctype) or, if you want other browsers to stay in Standards Mode,
            just put a comment before the doctype. Anything before the doctype,
            including the XML prologue if the flavor is XHTML, puts IE6 in Quirks.

            Lotta
          • Alec Burgess
            ... I wasn t very clear there :-( I meant that making a change to the position argument was a better way to get the page to function correctly than leaving
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 13, 2004
              >>> From what I've read, I assume changing the css style to
              >>> relative is the
              >> prefered option especially if the intent is to have
              >> standards compliant code.
              >
              > Well, no. Relative and absolute accomplishes different
              > things and both are very much standards.

              I wasn't very clear there :-(
              I meant that making a change to the position argument was a "better" way to
              get the page to function correctly than leaving it as was and using quirks
              mode.

              I'll check out the specific references you quoted - thanks!

              Regards ... Alec
              --


              ---- Original Message ----
              From: "loro" <loro-spam01-@...>
              To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 22:13
              Subject: [gla: Re: Re: [NH] OFFTOPIC Popfile IE vs Firefox
              HTML puzzle

              >> Googling for doctype quirks amongst hundreds of hits
              >> shows this page:
              >>
              http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnie60/html/cssenhancements.asp
              >> (old I guess? - it only goes up to HTML 4.0)
              >
              > I think the same goes for 4.01 as for 4.0. You might need
              > these too.
              >
              > <http://www.hut.fi/u/hsivonen/doctype.html>
              > <http://gutfeldt.ch/matthias/articles/doctypeswitch/table.html>
              > <http://www.mozilla.org/docs/web-developer/quirks/doctypes.html>
              > <http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/doctype/>
              >
              >>> From what I've read, I assume changing the css style to
              >>> relative is the
              >> prefered option especially if the intent is to have
              >> standards compliant code.
              >
              > Well, no. Relative and absolute accomplishes different
              > things and both are very much standards.
              >
              >> Just curious, how would the the above doctype be
              >> rewritten to put it
              >> into quirks mode? Is it as simple as just removing the
              >> <!DOCTYPE> from the document or is choosing one of the
              >> other possiblities more "correct"?
              >
              > Remove it, change it according to the tables above
              > (basically to an URL-less doctype) or, if you want other
              > browsers to stay in Standards Mode, just put a comment
              > before the doctype. Anything before the doctype,
              > including the XML prologue if the flavor is XHTML, puts
              > IE6 in Quirks.
              >
              > Lotta
              >
              >
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            • loro
              ... Oh, sorry! I guess, if you can do it without breaking something. I didn t check if it is one or both of the absolutely positioned boxes that trigger the
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 13, 2004
                Alec Burgess wrote:
                >I meant that making a change to the position argument was a "better" way to
                >get the page to function correctly than leaving it as was and using quirks
                >mode.

                Oh, sorry! I guess, if you can do it without breaking something. I didn't
                check if it is one or both of the absolutely positioned boxes that trigger
                the bug in IE. For the #content rule relative would do the same job as
                absolute, because #content would be at the top-left of the browser window
                without any positioning (which means 4em from the top of the window is the
                same as 4em down from #content's static position). Using top and left
                margins with the same values would work too, I think.

                #content {
                position: absolute;
                top: 4em;
                left: 1%;
                width: 98%;
                }

                Lotta
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