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Re: [NTB] Editing pages created in MS Frontpage

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  • sisterscape
    I m going to reply to this on the HTML list. I have been watching this exchange with some interest. I started out years ago using a WYSIWYG editor but saw the
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 22 4:30 PM
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      I'm going to reply to this on the HTML list.

      I have been watching this exchange with some interest. I started out
      years ago using a WYSIWYG editor but 'saw the light' thanks to some
      designers who are real purists and would never touch one - especially
      Front Page. [Eeeeek!] (I hear that even Dreamweaver doesn't get it
      quite right and requires a good cleaning up.) Now, I handcode all my
      sites with browser compatibility and user accessibility in mind.
      Writing beautiful code is an art in which I take great pride. Besides,
      working with a blank canvas is much more exciting and satisfying than
      painting by the numbers.

      sisterscape

      --- David Smart <smartware@...> wrote:

      > Most of what you're saying is perfectly correct, but tends to miss
      > the point a bit IMHO. The same argument could easily be used towards
      > writing all software in assembler.
      >
      > But it ain't done, because it's slower. Only software considered
      > time critical is coded in assembler. Only web pages considered
      > download-time-critical can justify being hand coded. (I must admit I
      > tend to hand-code - using a combination of NoteTab and Arachnophilia,
      > but I certainly can't claim that it's cost-justified.)
      >
      > Essentially, the technology will move on (CPU speed and disk space
      > for compilers, link speed for web pages) and the inefficiencies of
      > the automation tool are absorbed. (I don't accept the server-space
      > argument for web pages - they're tiny compared to other things, and
      > pretty insignificant on today's large disks.)
      >
      > Of course, the idea of any web automation tool producing an end
      > result that is not compatible with all browsers is a totally
      > different story.
      >
      > Dave S
      >
      > PS - I acknowledge that this is better off the [NTB] list. But I
      > don't take that one, so have popped this last message here.
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: Jeff Scism
      > To: notetab@yahoogroups.com ; ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:20 AM
      > Subject: Re: [NTB] Editing pages created in MS Frontpage
      >
      >
      > Copying this to: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
      > Please continue the discussion there...
      >
      >
      > "What you see is what you get (WYSIWYG)" vs. Coding by NoteTab
      >
      >
      > The MAIN issues with WYSIWYG coding is that it is BULKY,
      > redundant, and
      > consumes way too much server space, and takes a LOT longer to
      > upload, view and update.
      >
      > A single line in most programs is ALMOST treated as a stand alone
      > html
      > page, with each line having all attributes inserted, (the STYLE
      > should
      > be set for the document as a whole), and then each line within
      > should
      > have a default setting, WYSIWYG Programs can expand a document to
      > 4-5
      > times it's "efficient" size.
      >
      > If it is one or two pages it generally is no big deal, but if you
      > are
      > presenting a LARGE database it slows the loading of the pages to
      > each
      > user, devours cache capacity, and slows the user's functionality,
      > consuming MORE RAM availibility.
      >
      > It can also cause compatibility issues as some web page creation
      > "tools" are non-standard in code usage and have proprietary codes
      > that
      > only they interpret correctly.
      >
      > The reason to use NOTETAB as a tool is that
      > 1. The HTML-ar library will teach you how to code HTML by daily
      > use, you
      > can see what does what and why. This means when you have a problem
      > you
      > can't fix in WYSIWYG, you can look at the source code and SEE what
      > is
      > wrong. (I sometimes will code in NoteTab, run into a coding
      > problem, run
      > it through a WYSIWYG, and then rerun it through NoteTab to clean
      > up
      > codes, as some of the WYSIWYG programs will correct subtle code
      > ommissions automatically (Composer))
      >
      > 2. Verificcation with HTML coding standards is easily done through
      >
      > HTML-Tidy and through HTML validation applications, and editing
      > is
      > easy with on page replacement of text, and in Standard and Pro
      > "global"
      > directory replacements of text.
      >
      > NoteTab also facilitates quick viewing of the Coded pages BEFORE
      > uploading.
      >
      > Jeff
      >
      >
      >
      > <<I agree with you that FrontPage generated HTML is nasty, but it's
      >
      > never meant to be looked at. Consider it more like object code
      > from a
      > compiler, with the source code being the (sort-of) WYSIWYG display
      > in
      > FrontPage. If you look at the output of any compiler, the machine
      > code
      > is certainly nowhere near as "nice" as you'd write by yourself in
      > assembler.
      > --
      > ~~
      >
      > Jeffery G. Scism. IBSSG
      >
      > "Just the facts, maam."
      > Sgt. Joe Friday,
      > LAPD Badge #714
      >
      > Do your civic duty, Know your candidates and
      > VOTE for the candidate of your choice.
      >
      > Jimmy Hoffa, 1960
      >
      >
      >
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      >
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