Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [NH] &

Expand Messages
  • John Zeman
    ... address ... ok. ... I ve never read the *official* reason why certain characters such as & should be converted, but I know in many programming languages &
    Message 1 of 19 , May 6 9:31 AM
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, Kathy Jungjohann <kjj@a...> wrote:
      >
      > >You're supposed to put the & into Your HTML, not into Your
      address
      > >bar (is that what You were doing?)
      > Rudi,
      > You're right: I had typed it straight into the address bar.
      > I see when I put the entity in the url of a link, it does convert
      ok.
      > My mistake. (But I'll stick to plain old & in links just the same.)
      > Kathy


      I've never read the *official* reason why certain characters such as
      & should be converted, but I know in many programming languages & is
      a command. And when & is used as anything other than a command the
      script fails unless the & has been escaped.

      Basically, that's what the & is, a safe way to use & in your html
      even though all the browsers I'm aware of will display it either way.

      Besides & I also convert non breaking spaces, single, and double
      quotes. It may not be necessary but it makes it easy for me to
      differentiate the html code from the plain text in the document.

      John
    • John Zeman
      ... I know in many programming languages & is ... A slight correction to my previous post. & Is not a command in many other languages, it s used to group
      Message 2 of 19 , May 6 9:50 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, "John Zeman" <john041650@y...> wrote:
        I know in many programming languages & is
        > a command. And when & is used as anything other than a command the
        > script fails unless the & has been escaped.


        A slight correction to my previous post.

        & Is not a command in many other languages, it's used to group
        commands in many other languages. To run one command and then
        another.

        John
      • Jody
        Hi John ... "e;non breaking spaces"e; or only in urls and such? (I just guessed at the "e;.) Take care, Jody Adair The whole world doth
        Message 3 of 19 , May 6 9:52 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi John

          >Besides & I also convert non breaking spaces, single, and double
          >quotes. It may not be necessary but it makes it easy for me to
          >differentiate the html code from the plain text in the document.

          >Does that mean that you would convert "non breaking spaces" into

          "e;non breaking spaces"e;

          or only in urls and such? (I just guessed at the "e;.)


          Take care,
          Jody Adair

          The whole world doth err save you and me,
          and even thou doest err some!
          http://clean-funnies.com
          http://notetab.net, http://fookes.us
        • Don - htmlfixit.com
          ... Then your pages will be non-compliant with standards if you care. It is better to do as they suggest and use the character entity so you generate
          Message 4 of 19 , May 6 10:13 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Kathy Jungjohann wrote:

            >>You're supposed to put the & into Your HTML, not into Your address
            >>bar (is that what You were doing?)
            >
            > Rudi,
            > You're right: I had typed it straight into the address bar.
            > I see when I put the entity in the url of a link, it does convert ok.
            > My mistake. (But I'll stick to plain old & in links just the same.)
            > Kathy
            >

            Then your pages will be non-compliant with standards if you care. It is
            better to do as they suggest and use the character entity so you
            generate validated pages.
          • sisterscape
            ... I never gave this a second thought until validation became important for me. Now I would never think of publishing an unvalidated page!
            Message 5 of 19 , May 6 10:28 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              --- "Don - htmlfixit.com" <don@...> wrote:
              > Kathy Jungjohann wrote:

              > > (But I'll stick to plain old & in links just the same.)
              > > Kathy
              > >
              >
              > Then your pages will be non-compliant with standards if you care. It
              > is better to do as they suggest and use the character entity so you
              > generate validated pages.
              >
              I never gave this a second thought until validation became important
              for me. Now I would never think of publishing an unvalidated page!




              __________________________________
              Do you Yahoo!?
              Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
              http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover
            • John Zeman
              ... Not quite Jody. in html extra (more than one) spaces are ignored by the browser, that s why you can indent your code if you want. To force extra spaces to
              Message 6 of 19 , May 6 11:11 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, Jody <kjv-av1611@e...> wrote:
                > Hi John
                >
                > >Besides & I also convert non breaking spaces, single, and double
                > >quotes. It may not be necessary but it makes it easy for me to
                > >differentiate the html code from the plain text in the document.
                >
                > >Does that mean that you would convert "non breaking spaces" into
                >
                > "e;non breaking spaces"e;
                >
                > or only in urls and such? (I just guessed at the "e;.)
                >
                >


                Not quite Jody. in html extra (more than one) spaces are ignored by
                the browser, that's why you can indent your code if you want. To
                force extra spaces to be displayed in the text, you need to use
                  in place of, or along with, regular spaces. In your example,
                unless you had non breaking spaces in place of regular spaces, it
                would be converted as follows:

                Does that mean that you would convert "non breaking spaces"
                into

                Only the quotes are converted.

                You can't have spaces in URLS so there's no reason to use non
                breaking spaces in links. Non breaking spaces only apply to plain
                text. To see a good example of it, just use the NoteTab command
                of "modify document to html with paragraph tags" on a text document
                that has two or more spaces between sentences.

                John
              • Jody
                Hi John, ... Yes, I was just curious if you did the whole document literally. ... %20 :) ... Yep. I have two Clips I use a lot: H=   1 Space  
                Message 7 of 19 , May 6 11:45 AM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi John,

                  >> >Does that mean that you would convert "non breaking spaces" into
                  >>
                  >> "e;non breaking spaces"e;
                  >>
                  >> or only in urls and such? (I just guessed at the "e;.)
                  >
                  >Not quite Jody. in html extra (more than one) spaces are ignored by
                  >the browser, that's why you can indent your code if you want.

                  Yes, I was just curious if you did the whole document literally.

                  >You can't have spaces in URLS so there's no reason to use non
                  >breaking spaces in links.

                  %20 :)

                  >Non breaking spaces only apply to plain text. To see a good
                  >example of it, just use the NoteTab command of "modify document
                  >to html with paragraph tags" on a text document that has two or
                  >more spaces between sentences.

                  Yep. I have two Clips I use a lot:

                  H="  1 Space"
                   

                  H="  5 Spaces"
                       

                  Sometimes I use the menu; just depends on where I'm at, but I can
                  get to most of my frequent Clips as fast as I can to the menu and
                  don't take the chance of my mouse pointer sliding off and having
                  to start again because it collapses.

                  I just added this clip :)

                  H=Fill Spaces with  
                  ^$StrFill(" ";^$GetSelSize$)$

                  bcnu,
                  jody

                  I can only please one person a day.
                  Today is obviously not your day.
                  Tomorrow doesn't look good either. 8D
                  http://www.clean-funnies.com
                  http://www.fookes.com/regnow.html?2448 ;)
                  http://www.sojourner.us/software
                • John Zeman
                  ... by ... That s true Jody, if someone attempts to use spaces in a URL they should be changed to %20 instead. One thing you may want to keep in mind when
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 6 1:08 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, Jody <kjv-av1611@e...> wrote:
                    > Hi John,
                    >
                    > >> >Does that mean that you would convert "non breaking spaces" into
                    > >>
                    > >> "e;non breaking spaces"e;
                    > >>
                    > >> or only in urls and such? (I just guessed at the "e;.)
                    > >
                    > >Not quite Jody. in html extra (more than one) spaces are ignored
                    by
                    > >the browser, that's why you can indent your code if you want.
                    >
                    > Yes, I was just curious if you did the whole document literally.
                    >
                    > >You can't have spaces in URLS so there's no reason to use non
                    > >breaking spaces in links.
                    >
                    > %20 :)
                    >
                    > >Non breaking spaces only apply to plain text. To see a good
                    > >example of it, just use the NoteTab command of "modify document
                    > >to html with paragraph tags" on a text document that has two or
                    > >more spaces between sentences.
                    >
                    > Yep. I have two Clips I use a lot:
                    >
                    > H="  1 Space"
                    >  
                    >
                    > H="  5 Spaces"
                    >      
                    >
                    > Sometimes I use the menu; just depends on where I'm at, but I can
                    > get to most of my frequent Clips as fast as I can to the menu and
                    > don't take the chance of my mouse pointer sliding off and having
                    > to start again because it collapses.
                    >
                    > I just added this clip :)
                    >
                    > H=Fill Spaces with  
                    > ^$StrFill(" ";^$GetSelSize$)$
                    >
                    > bcnu,
                    > jody
                    >


                    That's true Jody, if someone attempts to use spaces in a URL they
                    should be changed to %20 instead.

                    One thing you may want to keep in mind when using non breaking
                    spaces, is they mean just what their name implies. They're meant to
                    keep text together on one line. So as a general rule if you're going
                    to display a long string of spaces, you may want to consider
                    alternating between regular spaces and non breaking ones. e.g.

                             

                    instead of:

                             

                    Doing it the first way will allow line breaks to take place at proper
                    points when the page is viewed in a smaller window.

                    John
                  • Jody
                    Hi John, I suppose           w/o breaking them could be one of the reasons for getting the horizontal scrollbar.
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 6 1:31 PM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi John,

                      I suppose          
                      w/o breaking them could be one of the reasons for getting the
                      horizontal scrollbar. (I hate finding those problems in my code.)
                      I know images can do it, bad code,... but I haven't found other
                      reasons (at least that I can remember) other than some table and
                      margin-left/right in css and width sometimes. I have a few pages
                      somewhere <g> that has the horizontal bar just for about 1/2" and
                      cannot figure out what is causing it. None of the above seems to.
                      Feel free to change the Subject to Unwanted Horizontal Scrollbar
                      if you want to offer suggestions (off the top of your head)
                      because I'd have to go searching for the pages to send a link in.

                      >One thing you may want to keep in mind when using non breaking
                      >spaces, is they mean just what their name implies. They're meant to
                      >keep text together on one line. So as a general rule if you're going
                      >to display a long string of spaces, you may want to consider
                      >alternating between regular spaces and non breaking ones. e.g.
                      >
                      >         
                      >
                      >instead of:
                      >
                      >         
                      >
                      >Doing it the first way will allow line breaks to take place at proper
                      >points when the page is viewed in a smaller window.


                      I've got Fookesability!
                      Sometimes, no sensibility. :(
                      Jody

                      fookes.us, notetab.net
                      clean-funnies.com, bwbc.us
                      sureword.net, sojourner.us
                    • Marcelo de Castro Bastos
                      ... &, are reserved characters in HTML. This means that they should be used ONLY for marking elements ( ) or entities (&). This way, the browser
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 6 4:06 PM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        On 6/5/2004 13:31, John Zeman invited the wrath of the gods by saying:

                        > I've never read the *official* reason why certain characters such as
                        >
                        >& should be converted, but I know in many programming languages & is
                        >a command. And when & is used as anything other than a command the
                        >script fails unless the & has been escaped.
                        >
                        >Basically, that's what the & is, a safe way to use & in your html
                        >even though all the browsers I'm aware of will display it either way.
                        >
                        >Besides & I also convert non breaking spaces, single, and double
                        >quotes. It may not be necessary but it makes it easy for me to
                        >differentiate the html code from the plain text in the document.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        &, < and > are "reserved" characters in HTML. This means that they
                        should be used ONLY for marking elements (<>) or entities (&). This way,
                        the browser parser won't have to "guess" if you are using them for other
                        things.

                        That means: the ONLY syntactically-allowed way to use "&" in HTML is as
                        the prefix for an entity. So, if you WANT and "&" there, you have to use
                        the equivalent entity instead.

                        Since there are a LOT of badly-coded pages out there, in practice
                        browsers have additional code to try and "guess" what to do when they
                        find things that aren't standard HTML. That's why you find sites with
                        unescaped "&" in the middle of the code, or unterminated entities, and
                        it still displays as intended. But you shouldn't trust on the browser
                        guesses; you should try to create syntactically-valid HTML instead.

                        Double-quotes (") used to be considered reserved too, but this is no
                        longer true. You may prefer leaving them as entities for the reason you
                        mentioned (easier to separate them from the code), but it's not
                        necessary to validate. Single-quotes were never reserved, so the same
                        applies. OTOH, if there are a LOT of quotes in the text (for instance, a
                        dialogue), converting them into entities will make your pages a bit larger.


                        --
                        Marcelo de Castro Bastos

                        -=-=-
                        ... No one is listening until you make a mistake.
                        * TagZilla 0.049
                      • John Zeman
                        ... way, ... other ... That makes perfect sense Marcelo, and I should have realized it. Every other language I work with has reserved characters, that s what I
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 6 4:45 PM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, Marcelo de Castro Bastos
                          <mcblista@t...> wrote:

                          > &, < and > are "reserved" characters in HTML. This means that they
                          > should be used ONLY for marking elements (<>) or entities (&). This
                          way,
                          > the browser parser won't have to "guess" if you are using them for
                          other
                          > things.
                          >


                          That makes perfect sense Marcelo, and I should have realized it.
                          Every other language I work with has reserved characters, that's what
                          I was kinda sorta alluding to earlier.

                          I was just having a brain hiccup as to what they're called in html.

                          Thanks for the refresher.

                          John
                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.