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Re: [NH] Key Search Terms

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  • R Shapp
    Robert, Rudolph, Loro: Thanks for your replies. It looks like my simple question is leading me to a huge new field of study! The PHP Website
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
      Robert, Rudolph, Loro:

      Thanks for your replies. It looks like my simple question is leading me to a
      huge new field of study!

      The PHP Website (http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu/index.php?&MMN_position=1:1)
      looks like a goldmine for CMS. I'll check the other links you provided too.

      Rudolph said:
      << * Headlines (H1-H3)
      Structure Your code, so the machine (Google) gets enough hints how
      to interpret Your page.
      >>

      What does that mean? The site I'm working on contains mostly images of
      antique cars in various states of restoration. Most makes are Cadillacs.
      Although the Home page and the Parts page certainly contain the word,
      "Cadillac" in the headlines, it would be redundant to repeat "Cadillac" in
      headlines all over the site. This is why I am looking for a way to place key
      terms on all pages, but keep them invisible to the user.

      <<website owners have been sued for using brand names>>

      I really doubt this will be a problem for us. If anyone is interested, the
      website is>>>
      www.classiccars.ws

      The site has been dormant for a while, and I have only recently been involved
      with it. Some parts are still broken (for example, I haven't even begun to
      look at the visitor counter).

      If keywords in the <meta> tag are totally ignored, I won't use them, but if
      they get ANY use, I'll put them in because it's so easy to do so. And, yes, I
      won't be propagating any spam.

      Thanks again for your comments.

      Ray Shapp
    • Rudolf Horbas
      Ray, ... If You used lynx, You d know ;-) I just checked the site with lynx and Mozilla; one huge improvement for search engines would be to use alt attribute
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
        Ray,

        > Rudolph said:
        > << * Headlines (H1-H3)
        > Structure Your code, so the machine (Google) gets enough hints how
        > to interpret Your page.
        > What does that mean? The site I'm working on contains mostly images of
        > antique cars in various states of restoration.

        If You used lynx, You'd know ;-)
        I just checked the site with lynx and Mozilla; one huge improvement for
        search engines would be to use alt attribute for the car images.
        e.g. <img src="cadillac1.jpg" alt="1932 Cadillac V-16" width="...

        I'm not into cars at all, but I can imagine that it is of some interest
        to the others who are -- at least in the US. So it should not be too
        hard to improve it for the search engines.

        The source code is not /that/ bad ... even though it's FrontPage :-}

        (If I may make a wish -- get rid of those <blink>-tags.)

        The navigation image map took me awhile to recognize as the navigation
        in Mozilla -- it just didn't look like something clickable ...

        > And, yes, I
        > won't be propagating any spam.

        With spam, I was referring to redundant useless information, not the
        notorious spam mails, of course. (See the famous ->Monty Python sketch ...)

        Good luck, looks like a lot of work.

        Rudi
        --
        Munich, Germany
      • Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
        The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags. Adrian Worsfold http://www.pluralist.co.uk
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
          The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags.

          Adrian Worsfold

          http://www.pluralist.co.uk
        • loro
          Hi Adrian, ... Yes, but not the one ha talks about, keywords . Read part 2. You are not alone in drawing the conclusion no meta tags should be used. Not
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
            Hi Adrian,

            >The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags.

            Yes, but not the one ha talks about, "keywords". Read part 2. You are not alone in drawing the conclusion no meta tags should be used.

            Not really related, but personally I hate "description". Or rather when search engines use it. When I search for something I like to see a sample from the real text on the page in the result, not a piece of advertising copy that may or may not be in line with the rest of the page.

            L.
          • R Shapp
            HI Rudi and Adrian, Thank you for visiting the site. Alt
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
              HI Rudi and Adrian,

              <<one huge improvement for search engines would be to use alt attribute for
              the car images.>>

              Thank you for visiting the site. Alt attributes are very high on my to-do
              list. In the few days I've been involved, I have been striving merely to get
              most of the links fixed. Grammar, punctuation, usage, and consistency in the
              text are also of concern.

              <<The source code is not /that/ bad ... even though it's FrontPage :-}>>

              The previous web guy uses FrontPage. I don't even own a copy, but I heard
              somewhere that the latest version produces much cleaner code than earlier
              versions. Does anyone in the group have opinions about improved coding in the
              current version of FP?

              <<The navigation image map took me awhile to recognize as the navigation
              in Mozilla -- it just didn't look like something clickable ...>>

              That is my first encounter with FrontPage maps. I would like to add alt
              attributes to each section of the map, but I don't know whether that is
              possible. If alt attributes are possible, I'm sure they could be coded
              manually, but I just might buy myself a copy of FP for that and for other FP
              features, especially if I hear some favorable responses to my question in the
              paragraph above.

              <<get rid of those <blink>-tags.)>>

              I didn't even notice their presence. Do the fields actually blink in your
              browser? Now that they have been eliminated, the offending page looks no
              different to me in MSIE.

              <<The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags.>>

              That settles the matter. <meta> tags will be included.

              Adrian, I visited the Pluralist website. Very colorful! What is the purpose
              of the ending forward slash "/>" in some of your tags? For examples:
              <meta name="Keywords" content="Menu" />
              <meta name="Description" content="Main menu for frames by Adrian Worsfold." />
              <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="guid.css" />

              Regards,

              Ray Shapp
            • loro
              ... You not only can. You should. It s required. ... is a proprietary Netscape tag. ... Why
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
                >That is my first encounter with FrontPage maps. I would like to add alt
                >attributes to each section of the map, but I don't know whether that is
                >possible.

                You not only can. You should. It's required.
                <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#adef-alt>

                ><<get rid of those <blink>-tags.)>>
                >
                >I didn't even notice their presence. Do the fields actually blink in your
                >browser? Now that they have been eliminated, the offending page looks no
                >different to me in MSIE.

                <blink> is a proprietary Netscape tag.

                ><<The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags.>>
                >
                >That settles the matter. <meta> tags will be included.

                Why not? The article is about _one_ meta tag, <meta name="keywords" content="hot, sexy, free"> . He doesn't use it.

                Lotta
              • Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
                Well anyway I have used simple and few keywords. However, I have put in keywords that were missing in the body of the text (so if discussing radical
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
                  Well anyway I have used simple and few keywords. However, I have put in
                  keywords that were missing in the body of the text (so if discussing radical
                  Christianity in the text I might have put liberal in as a keyword if missing). A very
                  recent example is below ***. It seems that this is a wasted effort. Also I tend to
                  repeat the first heading into the title. The description sometimes joins keywords
                  into a prose sentence.

                  ***So the article about a BBC Four programme making the argument that Jesus did
                  not die on the cross had these few keywords:

                  "Keywords" content="Jesus, Jesus Seminar, Biography, Relevance"
                  "Description" content="Biography of Jesus"
                  "Author" content="Adrian Worsfold"
                  title>Biography of Jesus and relevance</title

                  which has been done because I knew search engines would pick up the text
                  anyway. Even "Biography of Jesus" as a description was misleading because it is
                  several biographical and properly non-historical literary narratives, but the
                  description was what someone might type into a search engine. The point is again
                  that I was obviously wasting my time putting nearly missing or not explicit words
                  into the keywords.

                  Adrian Worsfold

                  http://www.pluralist.co.uk
                • Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
                  Image Maps are best made with GeoHTML which is free. There is no need to buy anything for that. As for alt tags, they work with image map segments. I tend to
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
                    Image Maps are best made with GeoHTML which is free. There is no need to buy
                    anything for that. As for alt tags, they work with image map segments. I tend to
                    use the overlib system because I noticed when my former tutor went to my website
                    in class with Netscape 7 that they never appeared, so I realised if they were
                    important there needed to be another mouseover method.

                    Adrian Worsfold

                    http://www.pluralist.co.uk
                  • Don Passenger
                    I believe that you should still use meta tags for keywords and description. You should include a brief description that tells what the one page it appears on
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 27, 2003
                      I believe that you should still use meta tags for keywords and description.
                      You should include a brief description that tells what the one page it
                      appears on is and use keywords that apply to that particular page. There
                      are still search engines and indexes that rely on them. Just because they
                      are abused by others doesn't mean you should skip them entirely.

                      Just because one person doesn't like (and thus presumably avoids)
                      description type of search results doesn't mean others don't. You want to
                      cover all of your bases. I don't believe any search engine will hurt your
                      ratings as a result of keywords or descriptions ... IF THEY ARE ACCURATE AND
                      RELEVANT. But some will hurt your ratings if they are not present.

                      The article referenced indicated that only one major engine now uses
                      keywords. That search engine is in turn included for example in Dogpile,
                      which then increases the number of searchs with it. Keep in mind however,
                      that the search engines are often tight lipped about what they actually do.
                      Even Alta Vista says in that article that it may re-include keywords at a
                      later time. It takes seconds to do, why not do it? Obviously opinions may
                      differ.

                      --

                      Don Passenger

                      > Yes, but not the one ha talks about, "keywords". Read part 2. You are not
                      alone in drawing the conclusion no meta tags should be used.
                      >
                      > Not really related, but personally I hate "description". Or rather when
                      search engines use it. When I search for something I like to see a sample
                      from the real text on the page in the result, not a piece of advertising
                      copy that may or may not be in line with the rest of the page.
                    • joshuabosh
                      ... Bloat. Don t use the Keywords OR Description META tags (or FONT tags, or element attributes that can be replaced by CSS, or...). ... Bloat.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 27, 2003
                        R Shapp:
                        > This is why I am looking for a way to place key
                        > terms on all pages, but keep them invisible to the user.

                        Bloat.

                        Don't use the Keywords OR Description META tags (or FONT tags, or
                        element attributes that can be replaced by CSS, or...).

                        Don Passenger:
                        > Even Alta Vista says in that article that it may re-include
                        > keywords at a later time. It takes seconds to do, why not do it?

                        Bloat.
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