Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Key Search Terms

Expand Messages
  • R Shapp
    Hi Group, How does one code key search terms into one s web pages for detection by search engines? Somewhere I heard that some construct within HTML is
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 24, 2003
      Hi Group,

      How does one code key search terms into one's web pages for detection by
      search engines? Somewhere I heard that some construct within HTML is intended
      for containing words that will be seen only by search engines. For example,
      in a website for an antique car restoration service, one might include such
      terms as, "antique classic restore restoration car auto rare cadillac ford
      mercedes jaguar".

      Is this device what's known as a "metatag"?

      Thanks for the help.

      Ray Shapp
    • Robert Romberger
      ... Correct. Below is an example with your keywords above:
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 24, 2003
        On 24 Jul 2003 at 20:41, R Shapp wrote:

        > intended for containing words that will be seen only by search engines. For
        > example, in a website for an antique car restoration service, one might
        > include such terms as, "antique classic restore restoration car auto rare
        > cadillac ford mercedes jaguar".
        > Is this device what's known as a "metatag"?

        Correct. Below is an example with your keywords above:

        <meta name="keywords" content="antique, classic, restore, restoration, car,
        auto, rare, cadillac, ford, mercedes, jaguar">

        This goes between the <head> and </head> tags.

        --
        Robert

        Thought for the day: Immortality lies not in the things you leave behind,
        but in the people your life has touched. Unknown
      • R Shapp
        Hi Robert, Thanks for the reply. Your example is now incorporated. I m a little chagrined because I did have most of the concept, yet, I couldn t find
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 24, 2003
          Hi Robert,

          Thanks for the reply. Your example is now incorporated. I'm a little
          chagrined because I did have most of the concept, yet, I couldn't find
          anything relevant in Help.

          In reading about the <meta> tag, it appears key words can actually consist of
          phrases such as "statue of liberty" or "dinner bell". Is it correct to assume
          that after such a page is indexed, a search for "liberty bell" would NOT find
          this page? What about a search for "liberty" or for "bell"?

          I do appreciate your help.

          Ray Shapp
        • Robert Romberger
          On 25 Jul 2003 at 0:04, R Shapp wrote: Hello Ray, ... The meta tags are very specialized and hard to figure out from the standards documents (no real
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
            On 25 Jul 2003 at 0:04, R Shapp wrote:

            Hello Ray,

            > Thanks for the reply. Your example is now incorporated. I'm a little
            > chagrined because I did have most of the concept, yet, I couldn't find
            > anything relevant in Help.

            The meta tags are very specialized and hard to figure out from the
            standards documents (no real examples). I came by my info from various
            html help sites and books.

            > In reading about the <meta> tag, it appears key words can actually consist
            > of phrases such as "statue of liberty" or "dinner bell". Is it correct to
            > assume that after such a page is indexed, a search for "liberty bell" would
            > NOT find this page? What about a search for "liberty" or for "bell"?

            My example used single words, but you can use phrases just as easily -
            everything is comma separated. The robots look for and use the comma and
            whitespace to put the keyword list together for each page they index. They
            then use additional stuff (like number of times the keywords appear in the
            document) to help determine if the page actually does talk about that
            subject and to position the page on the search engine. That is a very
            simplified version of it by the way.

            One thing to remember about keywords is to pick words that relate to the
            page (site) that are common to the site but unique enough to be search
            engine fodder. Words such as "the", "and", and the like would likely not
            help people searching for your site, while "antique cars" would probably
            get them closer to you. Even better would be to have a unique company name
            that people think of automatically when they want to find your site -
            "Coke", "Pepsi", and "Red Cross" will certainly find the main company long
            before the folks that might have little of those products or services as a
            part of their name. Of course, not every company can enjoy that kind of
            noteriety. There is a whole science dedicated to selecting keywords that
            place well on search engines, and you can probably find many books about
            the subject that would help you define some for your site.

            --
            Robert

            Thought for the day: Silence is the most perfect expression of scorn.
            George Bernard Shaw
          • Rudolf Horbas
            Ray, ... As many web producers have abused meta keywords for spamming search engines, they are more or less ignored at present. If You want a high ranking in
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
              Ray,

              > In reading about the <meta> tag, it appears key words can actually consist of
              > phrases such as "statue of liberty" or "dinner bell". Is it correct to assume
              > that after such a page is indexed, a search for "liberty bell" would NOT find
              > this page? What about a search for "liberty" or for "bell"?

              As many web producers have abused meta keywords for spamming search
              engines, they are more or less ignored at present.

              If You want a high ranking in search engines, follow Google's advice for
              webmasters under http://www.google.com/webmasters/

              Here are a couple quick hints:

              1. Provide content
              There's nothing like a good amount of text with the words that a
              user might be looking for.
              2. Keep Your content fresh
              A page that never changes may fall in ranking, if You have many
              competitors. Think about using a content management system (CMS)
              to update Your pages.
              3. Put the most important keywords in such prominent areas as
              * Domain name ( e.g. www.car-restoration.com)
              If a good short domain name is not available, use a long one for
              search engines (no one will ever type them, just click) and a short
              one for business cards; let them point to the same website
              * Page title
              (e.g. "Rare and old car restoration for brands as Cadillac, Ford,
              Mercedes, Jaguar, ..."
              Be careful not to make Your title too long!
              * Headlines (H1-H3)
              Structure Your code, so the machine (Google) gets enough hints how
              to interpret Your page.

              4. If You want to see Your page like Google sees it, use the text
              browser Lynx (http://lynx.browser.org/).

              Most of these hints come down to: Don't worry about meta keywords, use
              good and valid HTML, and don't spam!

              HTH,
              Rudi
              --
              Munich, Germany
            • loro
              ... Let me just add some links (some a little old). Death Of A Meta Tag Revisiting Meta Tags
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
                At 10:48 2003.07.25, Rudolf Horbas wrote:
                >As many web producers have abused meta keywords for spamming search
                >engines, they are more or less ignored at present.
                >
                >If You want a high ranking in search engines, follow Google's advice for
                >webmasters under http://www.google.com/webmasters/

                Let me just add some links (some a little old).

                Death Of A Meta Tag
                <http://searchenginewatch.com/sereport/02/10-meta.html>
                Revisiting Meta Tags
                <http://www.searchenginewatch.com/sereport/02/12-meta.html>
                An End to Metatags (Enough Already, Part 1) - Traffick.com
                <http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=102>
                Google Uses Meta Tags Sparingly, But Should You? (Enough Already, Part 2) - Traffick.com
                <http://www.traffick.com/article.asp?aID=105>

                I think it's a Good Thing™ that most SEs ignore them. Things like that is too easy to abuse and searches become less reliable.

                >Munich, Germany

                Uppsala, Sweden, 31 °C
              • Rudolf Horbas
                Hi loro, ... Full ACK. ... Geez, You up there have that heat, too? The report says only 26°C today here, but we ve been up at 37 on Tuesday... Talk bout
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
                  Hi loro,

                  loro wrote:

                  > Let me just add some links (some a little old).

                  ... but good. Thank You!

                  > I think it's a Good Thing™ that most SEs ignore them.
                  > Things like that is too easy to abuse and searches become less reliable.

                  Full ACK.

                  >>Munich, Germany

                  > Uppsala, Sweden, 31 °C

                  Geez, You up there have that heat, too?
                  The report says only 26°C today here, but we've been up at 37 on Tuesday...

                  Talk 'bout countries: Ray, there have been cases (in Germany) where
                  website owners have been sued for using brand names or competitor's
                  names in their keywords. It might be a good idea to check jurisdiction
                  regarding this in Your country ...

                  Rudi
                  --
                  Munich, Germany
                • R Shapp
                  Robert, Rudolph, Loro: Thanks for your replies. It looks like my simple question is leading me to a huge new field of study! The PHP Website
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
                    Robert, Rudolph, Loro:

                    Thanks for your replies. It looks like my simple question is leading me to a
                    huge new field of study!

                    The PHP Website (http://phpwebsite.appstate.edu/index.php?&MMN_position=1:1)
                    looks like a goldmine for CMS. I'll check the other links you provided too.

                    Rudolph said:
                    << * Headlines (H1-H3)
                    Structure Your code, so the machine (Google) gets enough hints how
                    to interpret Your page.
                    >>

                    What does that mean? The site I'm working on contains mostly images of
                    antique cars in various states of restoration. Most makes are Cadillacs.
                    Although the Home page and the Parts page certainly contain the word,
                    "Cadillac" in the headlines, it would be redundant to repeat "Cadillac" in
                    headlines all over the site. This is why I am looking for a way to place key
                    terms on all pages, but keep them invisible to the user.

                    <<website owners have been sued for using brand names>>

                    I really doubt this will be a problem for us. If anyone is interested, the
                    website is>>>
                    www.classiccars.ws

                    The site has been dormant for a while, and I have only recently been involved
                    with it. Some parts are still broken (for example, I haven't even begun to
                    look at the visitor counter).

                    If keywords in the <meta> tag are totally ignored, I won't use them, but if
                    they get ANY use, I'll put them in because it's so easy to do so. And, yes, I
                    won't be propagating any spam.

                    Thanks again for your comments.

                    Ray Shapp
                  • Rudolf Horbas
                    Ray, ... If You used lynx, You d know ;-) I just checked the site with lynx and Mozilla; one huge improvement for search engines would be to use alt attribute
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
                      Ray,

                      > Rudolph said:
                      > << * Headlines (H1-H3)
                      > Structure Your code, so the machine (Google) gets enough hints how
                      > to interpret Your page.
                      > What does that mean? The site I'm working on contains mostly images of
                      > antique cars in various states of restoration.

                      If You used lynx, You'd know ;-)
                      I just checked the site with lynx and Mozilla; one huge improvement for
                      search engines would be to use alt attribute for the car images.
                      e.g. <img src="cadillac1.jpg" alt="1932 Cadillac V-16" width="...

                      I'm not into cars at all, but I can imagine that it is of some interest
                      to the others who are -- at least in the US. So it should not be too
                      hard to improve it for the search engines.

                      The source code is not /that/ bad ... even though it's FrontPage :-}

                      (If I may make a wish -- get rid of those <blink>-tags.)

                      The navigation image map took me awhile to recognize as the navigation
                      in Mozilla -- it just didn't look like something clickable ...

                      > And, yes, I
                      > won't be propagating any spam.

                      With spam, I was referring to redundant useless information, not the
                      notorious spam mails, of course. (See the famous ->Monty Python sketch ...)

                      Good luck, looks like a lot of work.

                      Rudi
                      --
                      Munich, Germany
                    • Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
                      The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags. Adrian Worsfold http://www.pluralist.co.uk
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 25, 2003
                        The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags.

                        Adrian Worsfold

                        http://www.pluralist.co.uk
                      • loro
                        Hi Adrian, ... Yes, but not the one ha talks about, keywords . Read part 2. You are not alone in drawing the conclusion no meta tags should be used. Not
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
                          Hi Adrian,

                          >The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags.

                          Yes, but not the one ha talks about, "keywords". Read part 2. You are not alone in drawing the conclusion no meta tags should be used.

                          Not really related, but personally I hate "description". Or rather when search engines use it. When I search for something I like to see a sample from the real text on the page in the result, not a piece of advertising copy that may or may not be in line with the rest of the page.

                          L.
                        • R Shapp
                          HI Rudi and Adrian, Thank you for visiting the site. Alt
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
                            HI Rudi and Adrian,

                            <<one huge improvement for search engines would be to use alt attribute for
                            the car images.>>

                            Thank you for visiting the site. Alt attributes are very high on my to-do
                            list. In the few days I've been involved, I have been striving merely to get
                            most of the links fixed. Grammar, punctuation, usage, and consistency in the
                            text are also of concern.

                            <<The source code is not /that/ bad ... even though it's FrontPage :-}>>

                            The previous web guy uses FrontPage. I don't even own a copy, but I heard
                            somewhere that the latest version produces much cleaner code than earlier
                            versions. Does anyone in the group have opinions about improved coding in the
                            current version of FP?

                            <<The navigation image map took me awhile to recognize as the navigation
                            in Mozilla -- it just didn't look like something clickable ...>>

                            That is my first encounter with FrontPage maps. I would like to add alt
                            attributes to each section of the map, but I don't know whether that is
                            possible. If alt attributes are possible, I'm sure they could be coded
                            manually, but I just might buy myself a copy of FP for that and for other FP
                            features, especially if I hear some favorable responses to my question in the
                            paragraph above.

                            <<get rid of those <blink>-tags.)>>

                            I didn't even notice their presence. Do the fields actually blink in your
                            browser? Now that they have been eliminated, the offending page looks no
                            different to me in MSIE.

                            <<The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags.>>

                            That settles the matter. <meta> tags will be included.

                            Adrian, I visited the Pluralist website. Very colorful! What is the purpose
                            of the ending forward slash "/>" in some of your tags? For examples:
                            <meta name="Keywords" content="Menu" />
                            <meta name="Description" content="Main menu for frames by Adrian Worsfold." />
                            <link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="guid.css" />

                            Regards,

                            Ray Shapp
                          • loro
                            ... You not only can. You should. It s required. ... is a proprietary Netscape tag. ... Why
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
                              >That is my first encounter with FrontPage maps. I would like to add alt
                              >attributes to each section of the map, but I don't know whether that is
                              >possible.

                              You not only can. You should. It's required.
                              <http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/objects.html#adef-alt>

                              ><<get rid of those <blink>-tags.)>>
                              >
                              >I didn't even notice their presence. Do the fields actually blink in your
                              >browser? Now that they have been eliminated, the offending page looks no
                              >different to me in MSIE.

                              <blink> is a proprietary Netscape tag.

                              ><<The article which claims death of a meta tag has meta tags.>>
                              >
                              >That settles the matter. <meta> tags will be included.

                              Why not? The article is about _one_ meta tag, <meta name="keywords" content="hot, sexy, free"> . He doesn't use it.

                              Lotta
                            • Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
                              Well anyway I have used simple and few keywords. However, I have put in keywords that were missing in the body of the text (so if discussing radical
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
                                Well anyway I have used simple and few keywords. However, I have put in
                                keywords that were missing in the body of the text (so if discussing radical
                                Christianity in the text I might have put liberal in as a keyword if missing). A very
                                recent example is below ***. It seems that this is a wasted effort. Also I tend to
                                repeat the first heading into the title. The description sometimes joins keywords
                                into a prose sentence.

                                ***So the article about a BBC Four programme making the argument that Jesus did
                                not die on the cross had these few keywords:

                                "Keywords" content="Jesus, Jesus Seminar, Biography, Relevance"
                                "Description" content="Biography of Jesus"
                                "Author" content="Adrian Worsfold"
                                title>Biography of Jesus and relevance</title

                                which has been done because I knew search engines would pick up the text
                                anyway. Even "Biography of Jesus" as a description was misleading because it is
                                several biographical and properly non-historical literary narratives, but the
                                description was what someone might type into a search engine. The point is again
                                that I was obviously wasting my time putting nearly missing or not explicit words
                                into the keywords.

                                Adrian Worsfold

                                http://www.pluralist.co.uk
                              • Adrian/ Rosemary Worsfold
                                Image Maps are best made with GeoHTML which is free. There is no need to buy anything for that. As for alt tags, they work with image map segments. I tend to
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 26, 2003
                                  Image Maps are best made with GeoHTML which is free. There is no need to buy
                                  anything for that. As for alt tags, they work with image map segments. I tend to
                                  use the overlib system because I noticed when my former tutor went to my website
                                  in class with Netscape 7 that they never appeared, so I realised if they were
                                  important there needed to be another mouseover method.

                                  Adrian Worsfold

                                  http://www.pluralist.co.uk
                                • Don Passenger
                                  I believe that you should still use meta tags for keywords and description. You should include a brief description that tells what the one page it appears on
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Jul 27, 2003
                                    I believe that you should still use meta tags for keywords and description.
                                    You should include a brief description that tells what the one page it
                                    appears on is and use keywords that apply to that particular page. There
                                    are still search engines and indexes that rely on them. Just because they
                                    are abused by others doesn't mean you should skip them entirely.

                                    Just because one person doesn't like (and thus presumably avoids)
                                    description type of search results doesn't mean others don't. You want to
                                    cover all of your bases. I don't believe any search engine will hurt your
                                    ratings as a result of keywords or descriptions ... IF THEY ARE ACCURATE AND
                                    RELEVANT. But some will hurt your ratings if they are not present.

                                    The article referenced indicated that only one major engine now uses
                                    keywords. That search engine is in turn included for example in Dogpile,
                                    which then increases the number of searchs with it. Keep in mind however,
                                    that the search engines are often tight lipped about what they actually do.
                                    Even Alta Vista says in that article that it may re-include keywords at a
                                    later time. It takes seconds to do, why not do it? Obviously opinions may
                                    differ.

                                    --

                                    Don Passenger

                                    > Yes, but not the one ha talks about, "keywords". Read part 2. You are not
                                    alone in drawing the conclusion no meta tags should be used.
                                    >
                                    > Not really related, but personally I hate "description". Or rather when
                                    search engines use it. When I search for something I like to see a sample
                                    from the real text on the page in the result, not a piece of advertising
                                    copy that may or may not be in line with the rest of the page.
                                  • joshuabosh
                                    ... Bloat. Don t use the Keywords OR Description META tags (or FONT tags, or element attributes that can be replaced by CSS, or...). ... Bloat.
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Jul 27, 2003
                                      R Shapp:
                                      > This is why I am looking for a way to place key
                                      > terms on all pages, but keep them invisible to the user.

                                      Bloat.

                                      Don't use the Keywords OR Description META tags (or FONT tags, or
                                      element attributes that can be replaced by CSS, or...).

                                      Don Passenger:
                                      > Even Alta Vista says in that article that it may re-include
                                      > keywords at a later time. It takes seconds to do, why not do it?

                                      Bloat.
                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.