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Smart quotes + Characters to HTML = BAD!

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  • Cody B.
    There s quite a major bug in the way that certain typesetting characters-- specifically, the em and en dash and smart quotes-- are handled by the
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 9, 2003
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      There's quite a major bug in the way that certain typesetting
      characters-- specifically, the em and en dash and smart quotes-- are
      handled by the Modify->Characters to HTML command. They're all
      replaced with entities, but three of the entities is deprecated and
      two are just plain wrong.

      These are the replacements made by NoteTab, which seem to be
      hard-coded into the program as far as I can tell:

      left single quote (alt-0145) = ‘
      This entity is correct, but not supported by all browsers.

      right single quote (alt-0146) = ´
      This is the WRONG character, though it looks somewhat like a right
      single quote.

      left double quote (alt-0147) = “
      This entity is deprecated, though supported by some browsers.

      right double quote (alt-0148) = ’
      This is a right *single* quote, not a right double quote!

      en dash (alt-0150) = –
      em dash (alt-0151) = —
      Both dashes' entities are deprecated.

      These really need to be fixed for those of us who wish to easily
      publish HTML documents containing curly quotes and dashes. Even
      deprecated entities would be better than those which are just plain
      wrong...

      The correct XHTML-compliant entities, for the record, are:

      left single (alt-0145) = ‘
      right single (alt-0146) = ’
      left double (alt-0147) = “
      right double (alt-0148) = ”
      en dash (alt-0150) = –
      em dash (alt-0151) = —

      -- cody a.k.a. codeman38
    • Cody B.
      ... Erm. Three of the entities *are* deprecated, not is. I really ought to proofread my posts after I ve made changes to them... :-/ -- cody, compulsive
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 9, 2003
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        --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, "Cody B." <cody@z...> wrote:
        > ...three of the entities is deprecated and
        > two are just plain wrong.

        Erm. Three of the entities *are* deprecated, not is. I really ought to
        proofread my posts after I've made changes to them... :-/

        -- cody, compulsive proofreader
      • loro
        ... Bah, I do that all the time. :-) Yeah, they are all illegal but I m wondering, how did you get the curlies and em and en dashes into Notatab in the first
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 10, 2003
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          >Erm. Three of the entities *are* deprecated, not is. I really ought to
          >proofread my posts after I've made changes to them... :-/

          Bah, I do that all the time. :-)

          Yeah, they are all illegal but I'm wondering, how did you get the curlies
          and em and en dashes into Notatab in the first place? At first I didn't
          understand what you were talking about because NTB has never converted any
          quotes for me but then I got clever and used the character map to insert
          curlies and now NTB did what you say.

          If this or similar is how you do it I guess it's disputable if NTB does it
          right or wrong. After all, that is the characters it's given. Or am I wrong
          in thinking all curlies aren't the same curlies?

          Talking about the character conversion feature, wasn't there a fix that
          stopped NTB from converting spaces to &nbs;? Something in the ini? Can
          someone refresh my memory?

          Lotta
        • Jody
          Hi Lotta, ... I m pretty sure you are right. It was one of those silent fixes like I ll fix it in the next release (betas at the time). For now you can
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 10, 2003
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            Hi Lotta,

            >Talking about the character conversion feature, wasn't there a fix that
            >stopped NTB from converting spaces to &nbs;? Something in the ini? Can
            >someone refresh my memory?

            I'm pretty sure you are right. It was one of those "silent"
            fixes like "I'll fix it in the next release" (betas at the time).


            For now you can just run a Clip for as many as you need such as:

            ^!Replace "�" >> "“" WAS
            ^!Replace "�" >> "”" WAS

            or just type it as you go: Alt+0147 and Alt+0148

            I notice NoteTab does OK on the 147, but renders a single curly closing for 148.
            I don't use them so the above it just a how to, not a this is
            correct thing. So don't get all geek'd out on me. :)

            This was not it, I do not think. I'll try to get Eric to step in
            here and let us know where we stand.

            ---- Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2002 14:07:18 +0200 ----
            Subject: RE: [NRN] NTP 4.9: Characters to HTML !?
            Reply-To: ntb-NextRelease@yahoogroups.com
            Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII
            Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

            Ruben you wrote:
            > Eric added this as new feature.
            > Often spaces are used to align text, converting them to  's
            > keeps that the way the originator intended. If you not translate
            > them all spaces will be compressed to one by the browser.

            Uhu...I'm with Knut. This is not good. In fact it will be a PITA. Both
            "Extended characters" and "All special characters" work this way too it seems.

            Lotta

            Happy Tab'n!
            Jody

            mailto:ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
            mailto:ntb-html-UnSubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ntb-html
            www.notetab.net www.clean-funnies.com
          • Eric G.V. Fookes
            Hi cody, ... Thanks for your feedback. Referring to this as a major bug is a slight exaggeration in my opinion . The Characters to HTML command command
            Message 5 of 5 , Jul 10, 2003
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              Hi cody,

              >There's quite a major bug in the way that certain typesetting
              >characters-- specifically, the em and en dash and smart quotes-- are
              >handled by the Modify->Characters to HTML command. They're all
              >replaced with entities, but three of the entities is deprecated and
              >two are just plain wrong.

              Thanks for your feedback. Referring to this as a "major bug" is a slight
              exaggeration in my opinion <g>.

              The "Characters to HTML command" command has been around for quite a while.
              At the time of its development, the entities you mentioned were not
              deprecated. I haven't made changes to the code because I believe there are
              more browsers that will fail to correctly render the compliant entities
              than the deprecated ones. I'm planning to make the entity conversion user
              customizable in NoteTab 5, so this won't really be an issue anymore.

              I've taken note of the two wrong entities and will correct them in the next
              update...


              Regards,
              Eric G.V. Fookes
              Author of NoteTab, Mailbag Assistant, and Easy Imager
              http://www.fookes.com/ and http://www.notetab.com/







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