Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [NH] Web Pages in Netscape

Expand Messages
  • jaydrake@inthecastle.com
    For the longest time I ve designed for Netscape 4.x, which guarantees a very high percentage of compatibility, but when given the choice I let my server logs
    Message 1 of 12 , Mar 7, 2003
    • 0 Attachment
      For the longest time I've designed for Netscape 4.x, which guarantees a very
      high percentage of compatibility, but when given the choice I let my server
      logs dictate how far back I really need to go. The fact is that NN 4 was
      terrible and the sooner the world rids itself of it the happier designers
      will be. The determining factor will be how far you're willing to sacrifice
      style for the lowest common denominator. If your logs show that you receive
      1% NN 4.x visitors, 29% NN 6.x, 10% 'other' and 60% IE 5.x+, you can
      probably design for IE 5+ and NN 6.x+ and feel pretty confident that you've
      done the right thing. Simply put, by doing so you are catering to the
      majority of your visitors. This is a fairly reasonable statement for a
      personal or business site, although some exceptions would really require
      100% compatibility at which point in time you're really looking at a true
      content based site and not something which requires alot of style at all.
      (Such as a good government informational site.)

      For business and personal sites I generally look toward the 80/20 marketing
      principle. Make 80% of the people as happy as can be even if it may turn
      away 20%.

      Jay Drake

      > Hi Group,
      >
      > What version of Netscape do most web masters use when they want to test
      the
      > appearance of their HTML pages? My default browser is MSIE6, and I'm
      finally
      > getting around to wanting to test my stuff for Netscape users.
      >
      > Related question: I just downloaded and installed Netscape v7, but I
      don't
      > see how to give it the details for my dial-up ISP account. It will
      interact
      > with the web only if I am already connected via my browser or my mail
      client.
      >
      > Most of my readers use various versions of MSIE, but about 20% use
      Netscape.
      > A very few use other browsers.
      >
      > Thanks for the advice.
      >
      > Ray Shapp
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Lewlinkous@cs.com
      In a message dated 3/7/2003 2:01:25 PM Central Standard Time, ... I have the same problem. So far I have been using Netscape 7 by working offline with NoteTab.
      Message 2 of 12 , Mar 7, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        In a message dated 3/7/2003 2:01:25 PM Central Standard Time,
        rayshapp@... writes:
        > Related question: I just downloaded and installed Netscape v7, but I don't
        > see how to give it the details for my dial-up ISP account. It will
        > interact
        > with the web only if I am already connected via my browser or my mail
        > client.
        >
        I have the same problem. So far I have been using Netscape 7 by working
        offline with NoteTab. This is sufficient to get a page together. However, I
        also require help before my Netscape 7 will function as my preferred browser.
        TIA,
        Lew


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ray Shapp
        Hi Jay, Thank you for or advice. My estimate of my users browser types
        Message 3 of 12 , Mar 7, 2003
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Jay,

          Thank you for or advice.

          <<when given the choice I let my server
          logs dictate how far back I really need to go>>

          My estimate of my users' browser types is based on guestimate. Am I correct
          in assuming that each ISP's log formats are unique? If not, can you suggest a
          way for me to mine the logging data files for pertinent info such as browser
          types? I was assuming I'd have to write some kind of Java script to create my
          own log files.

          Thanks again,

          Ray Shapp
        • calamityjanenow
          Hi Ray, I use a free cgi script from http://willmaster.com/master/alphainventory.shtml It makes a file I can download, but also adds to my site s logs. It has
          Message 4 of 12 , Mar 7, 2003
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Ray,
            I use a free cgi script from
            http://willmaster.com/master/alphainventory.shtml
            It makes a file I can download, but also adds to my site's logs. It
            has lots of info.
            Karen

            --- In ntb-html@yahoogroups.com, "Ray Shapp" <rayshapp@e...> wrote:
            > Hi Jay,
            >
            > Thank you for or advice.
            >
            > <<when given the choice I let my server
            > logs dictate how far back I really need to go>>
            >
            > My estimate of my users' browser types is based on guestimate. Am I
            correct
            > in assuming that each ISP's log formats are unique? If not, can you
            suggest a
            > way for me to mine the logging data files for pertinent info such as
            browser
            > types? I was assuming I'd have to write some kind of Java script to
            create my
            > own log files.
            >
            > Thanks again,
            >
            > Ray Shapp
          • loro
            ... No. There are a few formats but unique they are not. They are just text files that list a number of entries for each request that s made to the server.
            Message 5 of 12 , Mar 8, 2003
            • 0 Attachment
              Ray Shapp wrote:
              >My estimate of my users' browser types is based on guestimate. Am I correct
              >in assuming that each ISP's log formats are unique? If not, can you suggest a
              >way for me to mine the logging data files for pertinent info such as browser
              >types? I was assuming I'd have to write some kind of Java script to create my
              >own log files.

              No. There are a few formats but unique they are not. They are just text
              files that list a number of entries for each request that's made to the
              server. There are log analyzers that output nice statistics and pie charts
              from them, but they are humanly readable as they are.

              The question is rather if you have access to your logs. Does your host let
              you download raw log files or provide stats?

              Lotta
            • David
              Hi As far as I know ask whether you want them to be your default browser as soon as you set default it becomes your main browser . Go to options and Internet
              Message 6 of 12 , Mar 8, 2003
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi
                As far as I know ask whether you want them to be your default browser as
                soon as you set default it becomes your main browser . Go to options and
                Internet put your location of netscape into to the left side and your second
                choice into the right side .
                THANKYOU DAVE
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: <Lewlinkous@...>
                To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 8:48 AM
                Subject: Re: [NH] Web Pages in Netscape


                > In a message dated 3/7/2003 2:01:25 PM Central Standard Time,
                > rayshapp@... writes:
                > > Related question: I just downloaded and installed Netscape v7, but I
                don't
                > > see how to give it the details for my dial-up ISP account. It will
                > > interact
                > > with the web only if I am already connected via my browser or my mail
                > > client.
                > >
                > I have the same problem. So far I have been using Netscape 7 by working
                > offline with NoteTab. This is sufficient to get a page together. However,
                I
                > also require help before my Netscape 7 will function as my preferred
                browser.
                > TIA,
                > Lew
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
              • Kathy Jungjohann
                Installed latest version of NoteTab (4.92), and now when I preview a page in a browser window (right now IE6 is the primary browser selected), it opens a new
                Message 7 of 12 , Mar 8, 2003
                • 0 Attachment
                  Installed latest version of NoteTab (4.92), and now when I preview a page
                  in a browser window (right now IE6 is the primary browser selected), it
                  opens a new window each time - tho bringing the original window to the
                  fore. I can't seem to find any place in the options to make it always load
                  into the open window. Hummh!

                  (Must admit that at almost the same time I installed DSL and it did screw
                  around with IE when it installed. Have since uninstalled it - my cable
                  conn. was almost 4-times faster ... but perhaps DSL changed some of the IE
                  settings.)

                  Help!

                  Kathy
                • jaydrake
                  ... correct ... suggest a ... browser ... create my ... I would put a reasonable amount of faith in your ISP s server logs. While not 100% infallible, it s
                  Message 8 of 12 , Mar 8, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    > logs dictate how far back I really need to go>>
                    >
                    > My estimate of my users' browser types is based on guestimate. Am I
                    correct
                    > in assuming that each ISP's log formats are unique? If not, can you
                    suggest a
                    > way for me to mine the logging data files for pertinent info such as
                    browser
                    > types? I was assuming I'd have to write some kind of Java script to
                    create my
                    > own log files.

                    I would put a reasonable amount of faith in your ISP's server logs. While
                    not 100% infallible, it's pretty darned close. Log format will be based on
                    web server used, whether that be MS IIS, Apache or one of the other less
                    used web servers out there. Beyond that the only thing that is unique is how
                    the data is displayed and there are many different reporting systems that
                    can be used on the bare logs. If you absolutely don't trust the logs you can
                    always rely on a cgi script which collects user data and puts it into text
                    files or a database of it's own. Personally, I wouldn't bother. Take what
                    you've got and make your cutoff. It might hurt a small percentage of the
                    visitors, but will be better for your other visitors which, while not 'fair'
                    to that small percentage, is the way you need to go if you want 'success'
                    from your site, be that sales or just more traffic.

                    Jay Drake
                  • Ray Shapp
                    Hi Jay, David, Lotta, Karen. My webhost (HostCentric) does load tons of log info right onto our site, and it is all readily available. A short excerpt is
                    Message 9 of 12 , Mar 10, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi Jay, David, Lotta, Karen.

                      My webhost (HostCentric) does load tons of log info right onto our site, and
                      it is all readily available. A short excerpt is included below. For their
                      older accounts (like ours) they provide Urchin to view our logs, but I don't
                      see any indication of the browser types being used.

                      Karen, I may try that cgi script you suggested, but first, I'd like to
                      experiment with writing my own Java script. I just learned how to collect
                      browser types using JS. At this point it may be academic, because I get very
                      few complaints from NN users when I write for MSIE and check with Tidy.

                      The comments from this group have helped to settle these questions for me.
                      Thank you.

                      Ray Shapp

                      *************sample log info below this line************
                      <HEAD><META http-equiv="Expires" content="now">
                      <SCRIPT Language="JavaScript">

                      parent.cdelimiter = "|"
                      parent.sClear();
                      parent.sLoad("index.html",1114,1114,1114,0,1,0);
                      parent.sLoad("cgi-bin/nph-count2",819,819,819,0,2,0);
                      parent.sLoad("siteindx.htm",776,776,776,3,1,0);
                      parent.sLoad("aaihome.htm",761,761,761,1,1,0);
                      [snip]
                      </SCRIPT></HEAD>
                    • loro
                      ... Maybe it isn t configured that way. Below is an entry from a raw Apache log. Almost all fields are optional and can be disabled/enabled. 217.208.32.57 - -
                      Message 10 of 12 , Mar 10, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        At 09:11 2003.03.10, Ray Shapp wrote:
                        >My webhost (HostCentric) does load tons of log info right onto our site, and
                        >it is all readily available. A short excerpt is included below. For their
                        >older accounts (like ours) they provide Urchin to view our logs, but I don't
                        >see any indication of the browser types being used.

                        Maybe it isn't configured that way. Below is an entry from a raw Apache
                        log. Almost all fields are optional and can be disabled/enabled.

                        217.208.32.57 - - [10/Mar/2003:10:54:30 +0100] "GET /violent/tomatazo.gif
                        HTTP/1.1" 304 - "-" "Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0)"

                        If you can view the raw logs and they seem complete you could maybe run
                        another log analyzer. If not ask your host if he can change the way the
                        logging is configured.

                        >Karen, I may try that cgi script you suggested, but first, I'd like to
                        >experiment with writing my own Java script. I just learned how to collect
                        >browser types using JS.

                        Only you won't catch the ones that turn javascript off that way.

                        >At this point it may be academic, because I get very
                        >few complaints from NN users when I write for MSIE and check with Tidy

                        I still say that writing for no one and fix the problems with browser bugs
                        as they occur is the fastest and easiest. :-)

                        Lotta
                      • calamityjanenow
                        ... collect ... O I forgot, the cgi script uses javascript too. Karen
                        Message 11 of 12 , Mar 10, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          >
                          > >Karen, I may try that cgi script you suggested, but first, I'd like to
                          > >experiment with writing my own Java script. I just learned how to
                          collect
                          > >browser types using JS.
                          >
                          > Only you won't catch the ones that turn javascript off that way.
                          >
                          O I forgot, the cgi script uses javascript too.
                          Karen
                        • Don Passenger
                          Ray, The Mozilla part in your logs is the browser engine. If you have that type of information, you can get a clip to process the log file and calculate your
                          Message 12 of 12 , Mar 10, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Ray,

                            The Mozilla part in your logs is the browser engine. If you have that type
                            of information, you can get a clip to process the log file and calculate
                            your results. While you can collect information via javascript, you would
                            still need to forward it to the server via a cgi script.

                            --

                            Don Passenger

                            If you need an html fix visit
                            http://www.htmlfixit.com

                            html/perl/php/xhtml/javascript presented
                            in easy tutorials with live help and forums
                            to fix your problems
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "Ray Shapp" <rayshapp@...>
                            To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Monday, March 10, 2003 3:11 AM
                            Subject: Re: [NH] Web Pages in Netscape


                            > Hi Jay, David, Lotta, Karen.
                            >
                            > My webhost (HostCentric) does load tons of log info right onto our site,
                            and
                            > it is all readily available. A short excerpt is included below. For
                            their
                            > older accounts (like ours) they provide Urchin to view our logs, but I
                            don't
                            > see any indication of the browser types being used.
                            >
                            > Karen, I may try that cgi script you suggested, but first, I'd like to
                            > experiment with writing my own Java script. I just learned how to collect
                            > browser types using JS. At this point it may be academic, because I get
                            very
                            > few complaints from NN users when I write for MSIE and check with Tidy.
                            >
                            > The comments from this group have helped to settle these questions for me.
                            > Thank you.
                            >
                            > Ray Shapp
                            >
                            > *************sample log info below this line************
                            > <HEAD><META http-equiv="Expires" content="now">
                            > <SCRIPT Language="JavaScript">
                            >
                            > parent.cdelimiter = "|"
                            > parent.sClear();
                            > parent.sLoad("index.html",1114,1114,1114,0,1,0);
                            > parent.sLoad("cgi-bin/nph-count2",819,819,819,0,2,0);
                            > parent.sLoad("siteindx.htm",776,776,776,3,1,0);
                            > parent.sLoad("aaihome.htm",761,761,761,1,1,0);
                            > [snip]
                            > </SCRIPT></HEAD>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.