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Re: [NH] Pop-ups Good, Bad and Ugly (was: viewing source code)

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  • Mike
    Alec, More information, please, about browsers that do not open a new window when a link is clicked. Do you mean that these browsers only open new pages in the
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 24, 2002
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      Alec,

      More information, please, about browsers that do not open a new window when
      a link is clicked.

      Do you mean that these browsers only open new pages in the "target=_self"
      window and don't know how to deal with "target=_blank"???

      Mike Hopkins
      ironmike@...


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Alec Burgess" <burale@...>
      Subject: Re: [NH] Pop-ups Good, Bad and Ugly (was: viewing source code)


      > Wayne:
      > Request for clarification:
      > >>>> "Pop-ups" could mean legitimate auxiliary windows
      > >> belonging to the site you are visiting.
      > >
      > > Does such a thing exist? I've never seen one. Though, I
      > > have seen sites where legitimate content was illegitimately
      > > placed into pop-up windows.<<
      >
      > There are lots of sites that when a particular link is clicked the
      > information displayed is presented in a "pop-up". As an example
      > Zap2It-Tv listings: Click on the link for a TV show, a "pop-up" shows
      > details of time, date, plot and actors.
      >
      > Seems like a totally ligitimate use of pop-ups.
      >
      > If you mean a pop-up that gets auto-generated when you go to the main
      > site or exit from it then I agree with you totally ;-) though if I
      > scratched my head long enough I *might* be able to come up with
      > something semi-ligitimate as a counter example.
      >
      > I suspect that you are just not including the pop-up on click in your
      > definition of "pop-up". Is that the case? The reason I ask is that MyIE2
      > (and maybe CB and Netcaptor as well - I'm not sure) suppress these
      > "good" pop-ups as well as the ads when you request generalized pop-up
      > blocking. As a result I've had to allow pop-ups but block by URL mask
      > which is a PITA.
      >
      >
    • h.paulissen@facburfdcw.unimaas.nl
      ... Alec, After my upgrade to XP at home I no longer have myIE. To avoid annoying (unwanted) pop-up windows I searched for a small utility to block these. I am
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 24, 2002
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        >
        > Do you know a more general solution that works with the IE-add-on
        > browsers?
        >
        >

        Alec,

        After my upgrade to XP at home I no longer have myIE. To avoid annoying
        (unwanted) pop-up windows I searched for a small utility to block these. I
        am now using "IE middle clicker" and it does it quite well, I find.

        http://www.cs.huji.ac.il/~gadam/

        Hugo
      • Alec Burgess
        ... I m not quite sure what you mean by target=_self and target=_blank ? These browsers (NetCaptor (not free), CrazyBrowser, MyIE and MyIE2 (my personal
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 24, 2002
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          Mike:
          > More information, please, about browsers that do not open a
          > new window when a link is clicked.
          >
          > Do you mean that these browsers only open new pages in the
          > "target=_self" window and don't know how to deal with
          > "target=_blank"???

          I'm not quite sure what you mean by "target=_self" and "target=_blank"?

          These browsers (NetCaptor (not free), CrazyBrowser, MyIE and MyIE2 (my
          personal favorite at present) (all free)) are tabbed browsers: they have
          an interface that looks like notetab - It doesn't matter how many
          sub-windows you open, its still just one entry on the task bar.

          Re the Kensington athletics link: Maybe I'm over simplifying but I think
          the reason you couldn't see any source is that there really isnt any to
          speak of its just a link that points at a JPG picture whose location IS
          available on the calling page.
          >><A href="athletics/9-23-2002_big_6741.jpg"><IMG height=260 alt="Mike
          Triscaro"
          src="athletics/9-23-2002_small_6741.jpg" width=375
          border=0></A><BR><SPAN
          class=veranda12><FONT face=Verdana size=2><BR></FONT></SPAN><FONT
          face=Verdana
          size=2>Mike Triscaro runs his way past the Magics </FONT>
          <<

          I guess your problem was that the old function you were (I think) using:
          View partial source requires that you have selected at least one
          character of "text" outside of the the <A href .... </A> tag.


          --
          Regards ... Alec

          ---- Original Message ----
          From: "Mike" <ironmike@...>
          To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: 24 September, 2002 03:26
          Subject: Re: [NH] Pop-ups Good, Bad and Ugly (was: viewing
          source code)

          > Alec,
          >
          > More information, please, about browsers that do not open a
          > new window when a link is clicked.
          >
          > Do you mean that these browsers only open new pages in the
          > "target=_self" window and don't know how to deal with
          > "target=_blank"???
        • Neil Felton
          ... page of its origin. Is there any difference between (blank) and (new). Neil
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 25, 2002
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            Mike wrote:

            > ... If the named or ID'd frame or window doesn't
            > exist, the browser will open a new window, give it the specified label, and
            > load the new document into that window. Thereafter hypertexed documents can
            > link to the new window." --

            > There are four "special" target values, all of which begin with the
            > underscore character.
            >
            > *Target="_blank" will open a new, unnamed window.....

            >Hi Mike, I sometimes use (target="_new"), when I want a page not to replace the
            page of its origin. Is there any difference between (blank) and (new).
            Neil
          • Mike
            Alec, Target=.... is an attribute of the tag which will load and display the document named in the tag s HREF attribute in a frame or window whose
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 26, 2002
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              Alec,

              " 'Target=....' is an attribute of the <.A> tag which will load and display
              the document named in the tag's HREF attribute in a frame or window whose
              name or ID matches the target. If the named or ID'd frame or window doesn't
              exist, the browser will open a new window, give it the specified label, and
              load the new document into that window. Thereafter hypertexed documents can
              link to the new window." -- from HTML The Definitive Guide, 3rd edition;
              Musciano and Kennedy, published by O'Reilly & Associates, 1998. (Slightly
              paraphrased)

              In other words, it's how you get a new window to open when you click on a
              link, or how you tell the browser which of several frames to use to open a
              new document when that document is linked from the current window or frame.

              There are four "special" target values, all of which begin with the
              underscore character.

              *Target="_blank" will open a new, unnamed window.

              *Target="_self" forces a new document to open in the window from which it
              was linked. This is also the default behavior if no target is specified.

              Target="_parent" causes a new document to be loaded into the parent window,
              or the container frame of a frameset when linked from one of the contained
              frames. In a single window or top-level frame this value is the equivalent
              of target _self.

              Target="_top" causes the new document to be loaded into the window which
              contains the frameset thus replacing any frames.

              -- again, modified from Musciano and Kennedy.

              So, for displaying a larger view from a photo gallery in a new window, the
              code would be something like:

              <.a href="http://my.site.com/bigs/pix0125.JPG" TARGET="_BLANK" ><.img
              src="my.site.com/thumbs/tn_pix0125.JPG" /><./a>

              which would show a thumbnail -- tn_pix0125 -- in the first window, then the
              larger view -- pix0125 -- in a second window when the thumbnail was clicked.

              Targets are a lot more important in framesets than they are in non-framed
              windows.

              HTH, and isn't too "schoolish".

              My questions for you: do the tabbed browsers open "target=blank"s in a new
              window ??
              How do they handle javascript, php,etc.? Do the tabbed browsers open every
              page on a single site in a new window?

              Guess I'll have to download and try one.

              Mike Hopkins
              ironmike@...

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Alec Burgess" <burale@...>


              > Mike:
              > > More information, please, about browsers that do not open a
              > > new window when a link is clicked.
              > >
              > > Do you mean that these browsers only open new pages in the
              > > "target=_self" window and don't know how to deal with
              > > "target=_blank"???
              >
              > I'm not quite sure what you mean by "target=_self" and "target=_blank"?
              >
            • loro
              ... Mike, I m not Alec and I have never tried any of the IE based browsers mentioned. I do have Opera and Mozilla though. They and the few pop-up stoppers I ve
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 26, 2002
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                At 09:39 2002.09.26, Mike wrote:
                >My questions for you: do the tabbed browsers open "target=blank"s in a new
                >window ??
                >How do they handle javascript, php,etc.? Do the tabbed browsers open every
                >page on a single site in a new window?

                Mike,

                I'm not Alec and I have never tried any of the IE based browsers mentioned.
                I do have Opera and Mozilla though. They and the few pop-up stoppers I've
                tried can disable pop-up windows opened by JavaScript, not new windows
                opened with target=_blank. I think Opera at one point did, but I'm not
                sure. In Mozilla you can choose to have only "unrequested windows" killed.
                Meaning pop-ups spawned with body onload are zapped but the ones that are
                triggered by a link click are left alone.

                This isn't a problem really. As long as one avoids evil JavaScript URLs and
                open the pop-ups with an event handler backed up with an ordinary URL as
                the value of href everyone gets there, only in different ways.

                Lotta
              • Neil Felton
                Thank you Ron, re - ... to use it with an underscore. Do you suggest I do not use, new, but instead use, blank? Or if I want to have the new page accessible
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 26, 2002
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                  Thank you Ron, re -

                  Ron Woodall wrote:

                  > ...........Caution though with the use of the
                  > underscore character in your naming conventions. I'd recommend you only use
                  > it with the reserved target arguments............
                  >

                  >So you are saying, new, is not a conventional target name and it is not wise
                  to use it with an underscore. Do you suggest I do not use, new, but instead
                  use, blank? Or if I want to have the new page accessible from other sources to
                  use, target="new" ? And is that the same as saying target="anyname" ?
                  Neil
                • h.paulissen@facburfdcw.unimaas.nl
                  ... Hi Lotta, What are you trying to say exactly here? * Evil Javascript URL - how do you know it is evil? (something as javascript:goTo( AABBEAAOOOEAAU )
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 26, 2002
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                    >
                    > This isn't a problem really. As long as one avoids evil
                    > JavaScript URLs and
                    > open the pop-ups with an event handler backed up with an
                    > ordinary URL as
                    > the value of href everyone gets there, only in different ways.
                    >

                    Hi Lotta,

                    What are you trying to say exactly here?

                    * Evil Javascript URL - how do you know it is evil?
                    (something as "javascript:goTo('AABBEAAOOOEAAU')" appears in the statusbar
                    when I want to view the privacy-page on my bank's website)

                    * event-handler backed up with (etc...)
                    I am in the dark about your intentions here...

                    BTW. I've been using tabbed browsers and some of them allow for setting
                    different behaviours for dealing with new windows. In front of the original
                    one, open at the background, do not open new windows, stuff like that). It
                    really is easier to see for yourself - if you download MyIE you'll get a
                    hunch of the advantages of a tabbed IE browser).

                    Mozilla is good as well, I just upgraded from 1.0 to 1.1 and I think the
                    support for tabs is better now.

                    Hugo
                  • loro
                    ... Click BAD karma. If the browser isn t JavaScript enabled nothing happens and everyone screams in chorus that JavaScript
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 26, 2002
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                      At 12:27 2002.09.26, h.paulissen@... wrote:
                      >What are you trying to say exactly here?
                      >
                      >* Evil Javascript URL - how do you know it is evil?
                      >(something as "javascript:goTo('AABBEAAOOOEAAU')" appears in the statusbar
                      >when I want to view the privacy-page on my bank's website)
                      >
                      >* event-handler backed up with (etc...)
                      >I am in the dark about your intentions here...

                      <a href="javascript:PopUp()">Click</a>

                      BAD karma. If the browser isn't JavaScript enabled nothing happens and
                      everyone screams in chorus that JavaScript sucks. Boo-boo!

                      <a href="my_little_popup_page.html" onclick="PopUp(); return false">Click</a>

                      GOOD! Everyone is happy because they get there.

                      JavaScript on: The function in onclick works and the "return false" kills
                      the link so it isn't opened a second time in the original window.
                      JavaScript off: No harm done. The link is followed through as usual.


                      L.
                    • Ron Woodall
                      Hi Neil: ... Yes, _blank creates a new window frame with no name. The only way to target that frame is with the original, populating page. Your use of _new
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 26, 2002
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                        Hi Neil:

                        At 11:38 AM 9/26/02 +1200, you wrote:

                        > >Hi Mike, I sometimes use (target="_new"), when I want a page not to
                        > replace the
                        >page of its origin. Is there any difference between (blank) and (new).

                        Yes, "_blank" creates a new window frame with no name. The only
                        way to target that frame is with the original, populating page. Your use of
                        "_new" creates a frame with the name "_new" which is addressable from other
                        than the original populating page. Caution though with the use of the
                        underscore character in your naming conventions. I'd recommend you only use
                        it with the reserved target arguments.

                        I have to refer back to the message from Mike quoting "Musciano and
                        Kennedy." "Target=" is not restricted to <.a>. It is also used in the
                        <.area>, <.base>, <.div>, <.form>, <.link> and, <.span> tags.

                        However, I've only been able to get it to work with <.a> and <.area> tags.
                        <.base> and <.link> both have the potential to use target= but there are
                        some logical reasons why it shouldn't. The others, <.div>, <.form> and
                        <.span> I've not been able to figure out what they should work. I'll be
                        experimenting more with these soon.

                        There is a fifth argument to "target=" and that is "_search". This is
                        documented by MSIE 5+ but I've not actually been able to get it to work. I
                        don't have a search engine to experiment with. If anyone has gotten this to
                        work, I'd appreciate hearing about it.

                        Ron Woodall

                        ---------------------------------------
                        Ron Woodall
                        nor@...

                        The Compendium of HTML Elements
                        "your essential web publishing resource"

                        - available at/disponible à:
                        http://au.htmlcompendium.org/index.htm (Australia)
                        http://www.htmlcompendium.org/index.htm (Europe and North America)
                      • loro
                        ... Hi Ron, It works in my IE5 or at least I thought so. It opens the linked to page in IEs Favorites/Search pane. Is there more to it? Lotta
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 26, 2002
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                          At 16:04 2002.09.26, Ron Woodall wrote:
                          >There is a fifth argument to "target=" and that is "_search". This is
                          >documented by MSIE 5+ but I've not actually been able to get it to work. I
                          >don't have a search engine to experiment with. If anyone has gotten this to
                          >work, I'd appreciate hearing about it.


                          Hi Ron,

                          It works in my IE5 or at least I thought so. It opens the linked to page in
                          IEs Favorites/Search pane. Is there more to it?

                          Lotta
                        • Ron Woodall
                          Hi Lotta: ... I don t know. I ve never been able to decypher MSIE s description it opens a search window and relate it to something functional. But, thanks
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 26, 2002
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                            Hi Lotta:

                            At 05:08 PM 9/26/02 +0200, you wrote:

                            >Hi Ron,
                            >
                            >It works in my IE5 or at least I thought so. It opens the linked to page in
                            >IEs Favorites/Search pane. Is there more to it?

                            I don't know. I've never been able to decypher MSIE's description
                            "it opens a search window" and relate it to something functional. But,
                            thanks for your input. I'll experiment some more in a few weeks.

                            Thanks

                            Ron

                            ---------------------------------------
                            Ron Woodall
                            nor@...

                            The Compendium of HTML Elements
                            "your essential web publishing resource"

                            - available at/disponible à:
                            http://au.htmlcompendium.org/index.htm (Australia)
                            http://www.htmlcompendium.org/index.htm (Europe and North America)
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