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Re: [NH] Funky XHTML Problem

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  • Don Passenger
    under view/options/html files tab check xhtml box then with file open under modify/html tags/covert to xhtml when you start a new file after checking the xhtml
    Message 1 of 11 , May 23, 2002
      under view/options/html files tab check xhtml box
      then with file open under modify/html tags/covert to xhtml

      when you start a new file after checking the xhtml box under options the
      correct headers will simply be there

      --
      Don Passenger
      mailto:dpasseng@...
      home: http://www.iserv.net/~dpasseng
      work: http://www.grcourt.org
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Ian Rastall" <idrastall@...>
      To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2002 12:49 AM
      Subject: [NH] Funky XHTML Problem


      > Sorry, don't know how else to describe it. I was told by a friend that
      > my XHTML documents are incomplete without an XML declaration at the
      > very beginning of the document, before the DTD. Well, I cut and paste
      > some at the top of my documents, and suddenly they wouldn't load when
      > I chose "View in Browser". I would see the code itself displayed on
      > the page.
      >
      > Is there something I need to set in my Note Tab options?
      >
      > Ian
      > --
      > I think I'm possessed by some kinda paint devil,
      > the demon Latexabub: the god of Underworld, Flat Wall
      > and Trim. Little bastard. (Kendal Franceschi)
      >
      > http://www.aspipes.org/
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Ian Rastall
      ... Thanks for the advice. I ve already got that box checked in the options, and using modify-- html tags-- convert to xhtml does nothing, since I already
      Message 2 of 11 , May 23, 2002
        On Thu, 23 May 2002 09:37:20 -0400, you wrote:

        >under view/options/html files tab check xhtml box
        >then with file open under modify/html tags/covert to xhtml
        >
        >when you start a new file after checking the xhtml box under options the
        >correct headers will simply be there

        Thanks for the advice. I've already got that box checked in the
        options, and using modify-->html tags-->convert to xhtml does nothing,
        since I already write everything in xhtml. I did that to one of my
        files, and it didn't even become save-able, if you see what I mean.

        I guess I should have been more specific. I was told that I should put
        the following code at the very top of all my pages:

        <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>

        Well, since I write in XHTML 1.0, and use Unicode in my pages, this is
        what I did. And suddenly they wouldn't load in the previews any more.
        All I saw was the code itself.

        Is it something that Note Tab's not set up to handle? According to my
        friend, it's not proper XHTML without this declaration, so it's
        important to me that I put it in, though I've been leaving it out in
        order to view my pages.

        Ian
        --
        I think I'm possessed by some kinda paint devil,
        the demon Latexabub: the god of Underworld, Flat Wall
        and Trim. Little bastard. (Kendal Franceschi)

        http://www.aspipes.org/
      • Grant Mackenzie
        ... This is wrong, you don t have to put in the xml declaration. at the top of the page for an xml document to be either
        Message 3 of 11 , May 24, 2002
          > I guess I should have been more specific. I was told that I should put
          > the following code at the very top of all my pages:

          > Well, since I write in XHTML 1.0, and use Unicode in my pages, this is
          > what I did. And suddenly they wouldn't load in the previews any more.
          > All I saw was the code itself.
          >
          > Is it something that Note Tab's not set up to handle? According to my
          > friend, it's not proper XHTML without this declaration,

          This is wrong, you don't have to put in the xml declaration.
          <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
          at the top of the page for an xml document to be either valid or wellformed.
          Since xhtml is an application of xml this is also true for xhtml documents.

          since certain browsers cark at the xml declaration I think ie5 for mac it
          pays to leave it out.
          Having said this , I have had no problems viewing xhtml documents in any
          browser whether or not the declaration is in place.

          What I think is hapening is the extension you are giving your document.
          if .htm or .html browser will parse as html (mshtml parser)
          if .xml extension browser will parse as xml. (msxml parser)
          if extension .xhtml... if no xml declaration parse as html if or if xml
          declaration parse as xml ( ie Browser xml displays source code as you call
          it).

          I normaly give my xhtml documents a .htm extension .. no problems
        • Ian Rastall
          ... That s good to know. ... That makes a lot of sense. I m sure that s what it was. Ian -- I think I m possessed by some kinda paint devil, the demon
          Message 4 of 11 , May 24, 2002
            On Fri, 24 May 2002 21:37:54 +1200, you wrote:

            >you don't have to put in the xml declaration.
            ><?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
            >at the top of the page for an xml document to be either valid or wellformed.
            >Since xhtml is an application of xml this is also true for xhtml documents.

            That's good to know.

            >What I think is hapening is the extension you are giving your document.
            >if .htm or .html browser will parse as html (mshtml parser)
            >if .xml extension browser will parse as xml. (msxml parser)
            >if extension .xhtml... if no xml declaration parse as html if or if xml
            >declaration parse as xml ( ie Browser xml displays source code as you call
            >it).

            That makes a lot of sense. I'm sure that's what it was.

            Ian
            --
            I think I'm possessed by some kinda paint devil,
            the demon Latexabub: the god of Underworld, Flat Wall
            and Trim. Little bastard. (Kendal Franceschi)

            http://www.aspipes.org/
          • stephen riddle
            Hi all, This did not seem right to me, so I went to the good old W3C to check it out. It is true the prologue in not needed for the document to be well-formed,
            Message 5 of 11 , May 24, 2002
              Hi all,
              This did not seem right to me, so I went to the good old W3C to check it out.
              It is true the prologue in not needed for the document to be well-formed, but
              it is needed for it to be valid:
              http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-xml-19980210#dt-valid
              and
              http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-xml-19980210#sec-prolog-dtd

              Even so, in my experience, life is easier with niether xml declarations nor
              prologues. The browsers are just to brain-dead or something.

              Take care,
              Stephen

              On Friday 24 May 2002 04:10, you wrote:
              > On Fri, 24 May 2002 21:37:54 +1200, you wrote:
              > >you don't have to put in the xml declaration.
              > ><?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
              > >at the top of the page for an xml document to be either valid or
              > > wellformed. Since xhtml is an application of xml this is also true for
              > > xhtml documents.
              >
              > That's good to know.
              >
            • loro
              Hi Stephen, ... Nope, only under the below circumstances. ... http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#docconf Note that in this example, the XML declaration is included.
              Message 6 of 11 , May 25, 2002
                Hi Stephen,

                >This did not seem right to me, so I went to the good old W3C to check it out.
                >It is true the prologue in not needed for the document to be well-formed, but
                >it is needed for it to be valid:

                Nope, only under the below circumstances.

                ---------------
                http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#docconf
                Note that in this example, the XML declaration is included. An XML
                declaration like the one above is not required in all XML documents. XHTML
                document authors are strongly encouraged to use XML declarations in all
                their documents. Such a declaration is required when the character encoding
                of the document is other than the default UTF-8 or UTF-16.
                --------------

                I don't remember, but I think there are (older?) browsers that don't
                display the document at all if the XML processing instruction is included.
                Some render the line on the page instead of dealing with it. As said, IE6
                goes into Quirks Mode if the very first line isn't a DTD. A rather big
                large payload. Boo-boo dumb browsers!


                Lotta
              • Ed Brown
                OK, so what is a DTD?? I don t remember, but I think there are (older?) browsers that don t display the document at all if the XML processing instruction is
                Message 7 of 11 , May 25, 2002
                  OK, so what is a DTD??

                  I don't remember, but I think there are (older?) browsers that don't
                  display the document at all if the XML processing instruction is included.
                  Some render the line on the page instead of dealing with it. As said, IE6
                  goes into Quirks Mode if the very first line isn't a DTD. A rather big
                  large payload. Boo-boo dumb browsers!


                  Lotta





                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                • Alec Burgess
                  Ed: I didn t know either. Try: http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Ac ronym=DTD&Find=Find DTD Document Type Definition (markup languages)
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 25, 2002
                    Ed:

                    I didn't know either.

                    Try:
                    http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Ac
                    ronym=DTD&Find=Find

                    "DTD Document Type Definition (markup languages) "

                    Acronymfinder is permanently on my links bar - very
                    useful!


                    Regards ... Alec

                    ---- Original Message ----
                    From: "Ed Brown" <edbrown@...>
                    To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: 25 May, 2002 12:12
                    Subject: Re: [NH] Funky XHTML Problem

                    > OK, so what is a DTD??
                    >
                  • stephen riddle
                    Hi all, DTD is the Document Type Definition. It should only be necessary when a document claims to be XML of some kind or other. Browsers are s u p p o s e d
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 25, 2002
                      Hi all,
                      DTD is the Document Type Definition.
                      It should only be necessary when a document claims to be XML of some kind or
                      other.
                      Browsers are s u p p o s e d to revert to html 3 or 4 if the DTD is missing.

                      (Surely Microsoft would not have a problem with that?)

                      >Nope, only under the below circumstances.

                      #*&%(*%^__%)( They lied to me (w3c folks). AGAIN!

                      The only really old browser I have is Netscape 2. It displays the prologue
                      as if it was text. (I believe Lynx is ok with it though.)

                      Take care,
                    • Ian Rastall
                      ... Ed, I think there s two levels to knowing what a DTD is. The first level, where I m at, is just knowing that it s the Document Type Declaration that goes
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 25, 2002
                        On Sat, 25 May 2002 11:12:03 -0500, you wrote:

                        >OK, so what is a DTD??

                        Ed, I think there's two levels to knowing what a DTD is. The first
                        level, where I'm at, is just knowing that it's the Document Type
                        Declaration that goes at the beginning of your document. If you go to
                        the W3C, you should be able to find a DTD for any flavor of HTML,
                        including HTML 4, 4.01, XHTML 1.0, 1.1, etc. Just copy and paste. HTML
                        Tidy (which no human should be without) also puts in a DTD for you. It
                        goes before the <html> tag, at the top of your document.

                        The other "level" to knowing DTD's is knowing how to write them, and
                        that involves actually going through some kind of online tutorial that
                        shows you what all of it means, how to write it, how to make use of
                        it, etc. I've never tried learning, though it doesn't look like it
                        would take too long. It may be tied up with other things, like XML or
                        the Document Object Model, or who knows, so I'm a little leary of
                        checking it out.

                        Ian
                        --
                        We must "pull" the smoke gently from the bowl,
                        while allowing the gentle breeze of air to
                        nurse and caress our embers. (Traeldor)

                        http://www.aspipes.org/
                      • Ian Rastall
                        ... Sorry, that should be Definition Ian -- We must pull the smoke gently from the bowl, while allowing the gentle breeze of air to nurse and caress our
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 25, 2002
                          On Sat, 25 May 2002 21:56:06 -0400, you wrote:

                          >Ed, I think there's two levels to knowing what a DTD is. The first
                          >level, where I'm at, is just knowing that it's the Document Type
                          >Declaration

                          Sorry, that should be "Definition"

                          Ian
                          --
                          We must "pull" the smoke gently from the bowl,
                          while allowing the gentle breeze of air to
                          nurse and caress our embers. (Traeldor)

                          http://www.aspipes.org/
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