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RE: [NH] Re: Different browsers

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  • Jeff Burrows
    Didn t mean to cause a heated conflict, but I do think this is an important issue. I think my view is due, in part, to the fact that I develop mostly for
    Message 1 of 26 , Feb 18, 2002
      Didn't mean to cause a heated conflict, but I do think this
      is an important issue.

      I think my view is due, in part, to the fact that I develop
      mostly for business users rather than casual users or general
      consumers. I don't care about "whiz" or "bang" unless it will
      make me or my customers more money (and then I would suggest
      Flash).

      One thing that might help everyone dealing with this question
      is better statistics. Scott mentions that 20% of people use
      something other than IE 5,5.5, or 6. That may be true, but
      where do you get that stat? If we add in NS 4.7 or higher,
      amd IE 4 what percentage are we up to?

      I would direct people to:
      http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2002/February/browser.php
      This counts all the visitors to the Internet.com family of
      sites (about 300 Million hits a month) and this shows
      IE5.x 62%, IE6.x 25%, IE4.x 4% (that's 91%) and then
      NS4.x 4% and NSother 1% The rest are all less than 1%.

      Another is:
      http://webdesign.about.com/msubstats.htm
      This shows a very different view. With all IE at 62.7%,
      all NS at 17.6%, and Opera with a surprising 11.4%

      Another is:
      http://www.upsdell.com/BrowserNews/stat.htm
      Which has three sources that all line up almost exactly
      with my first example from Internet.com (though thay are
      all different sources)

      If anyone know good/better sources, please share!

      Cooperation is good and I see a lot of it. However, without
      the profit motive and, yes, <gasp> greed, not much would get
      done. Open standards are great if there is a payoff in terms
      of dollars instead of just a group hug...


      -----Original Message-----
      From: Scott Fordin [mailto:sfordin@...]
      Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:37 PM
      To: ntb-html@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [NH] Re: Different browsers


      I promise I won't say any more about this...

      Jeff Burrows wrote:

      > IE (4+) has been the best browser
      > platform, by far, for creating interactive pages and web-based
      > applications.


      If you don't mind massive security holes and Windows-only
      operating systems.

      > The standards have been trying to keep up with
      > IE, and they have adopted almost everything that IE has had
      > the research and development money to create and introduce.


      The point is that HTML is an *open* standard. That means
      no single company owns it. Microsoft, by pushing proprietary
      extensions -- and now excluding things like Java, QuickTime,
      and Netscape-style plugins -- is trying to usurp the platform-
      neutral standard and turn it into something proprietary. If
      Microsoft can own HTML, then they own e-commerce and can
      dictate the directions content can go -- and charge for it
      every step of the way. This a Bad Thing.

      It's always easier to make whiz-bang stuff on a single
      closed system. It takes more work -- and more cross-industry
      cooperation -- to make stuff that's scalable and flexible.


      > Just like so many other things in life, if we always aim for
      > the lowest common denominator.


      Cooperation, in the long run, makes for better, more stable
      products.

      Now, if I may move away from philosophy and speak in
      practical terms, there are people who <gasp> don't use
      IE6 or IE5.5 or even IE5. 20% of millions may seem to
      you to be statistically insignificant, but numerically
      it's still a heck of a lot of people. Then there are the
      people who are, say, vision-impaired, for whom many of
      those whiz-bang features you adore are totally useless
      at best. As much as you may want everyone to be in the
      "fast lane" as described by Microsoft, the fact is *most*
      people are not using the latest and, er, greatest. The
      sign of a good developer is one whose products degrade
      gracefully to operate on as wide a range hardware and
      software as possible.

      Best regards,

      Scott
      "Lambs turn into sheep when they enter the voting booth."





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    • paul
      ... From: Jeff Burrows To: Sent: 19 February 2002 04:00 Subject: RE: [NH] Re: Different browsers ... i
      Message 2 of 26 , Feb 19, 2002
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Jeff Burrows" <jeffb2nd@...>
        To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: 19 February 2002 04:00
        Subject: RE: [NH] Re: Different browsers

        > One thing that might help everyone dealing with this question
        > is better statistics. Scott mentions that 20% of people use
        > something other than IE 5,5.5, or 6. That may be true, but
        > where do you get that stat? If we add in NS 4.7 or higher,
        > amd IE 4 what percentage are we up to?
        >
        > I would direct people to:
        > http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2002/February/browser.php
        > This counts all the visitors to the Internet.com family of
        > sites (about 300 Million hits a month) and this shows
        > IE5.x 62%, IE6.x 25%, IE4.x 4% (that's 91%) and then
        > NS4.x 4% and NSother 1% The rest are all less than 1%.

        i have access to the stats of site which gets 16-18000 hits a day and
        browser usage breaks down along the lines indicated by thecounter.com - all
        versions of netscape account for a measly 5-6% on average, with explorer
        consistently hitting 91-92%.

        i've also seen traffic stats from smaller sites, which back these figures
        up.

        paul
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