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RE: [NH] txt2html

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  • Greg Chapman
    ... HTML ... ... I re-read this after it appeared on the list and realised that I may appear to have set myself up to appear like some guru. I m not!
    Message 1 of 5 , Sep 14, 2001
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      > > > You can do a <font> tag for the whole document, although the
      HTML
      > > > gurus will hang us if they see us using the depreciated tag.
      <bg>
      >
      > Too true! :-)

      I re-read this after it appeared on the list and realised that I may
      appear to have set myself up to appear like some guru. I'm not! I'm
      just a self-taught, non-qualification holding pleb.

      However, I stand by the principle of what I'm saying. In any form of
      programming/computing or, indeed, most aspects of life, the sure way
      to unwelcome effects and things you just don't understand, is to do
      half the job one way, and try and then try to protect yourself against
      the problems caused by using a completely different approach to try
      and hide them - rather than solve the initial problem.

      And that's what was being suggested to cure an incomplete CCS. Plug
      the gaps with an incomplete set HTML tags.

      Greg
    • tenu@sci.fi
      ... block ... Unfortunately popular ones (or should I say *one*) forced others to follow the wrong road. I have IE, Netscape (two versions), Mozilla, Opera
      Message 2 of 5 , Sep 16, 2001
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        --- In ntb-html@y..., "Greg Chapman" <greg@e...> wrote:

        > > <font> tag is text level element, so it shouldn't contain any
        block
        > > elements as <p/ul/ol/dlfor/table>. Encapsulating the document in
        > > <font> works, but it's bad practise.
        >
        > *May* work in *some* browsers. (The popular ones admittedly, which
        > tend to be too forgiving and hence allow bad practice to creep in.
        > Then some folk start to complain when they get caught out!!!!)

        Unfortunately popular ones (or should I say *one*) forced others to
        follow the wrong road. I have IE, Netscape (two versions), Mozilla,
        Opera and Lynx installed, and they all (except Lynx :) use the font
        for whole document. Too bad. I hoped Opera would be better than
        others.


        > > Using <font> as safegurad is better than relying on CSS alone as
        you
        > > can easily make a mistake of changing the background color without
        > > specifying contrasting text color, making the text unreadable with
        > > CSS-disabled browsers.
        >
        > If you have a properly constructed, _and complete_, CSS this does
        NOT
        > happen! If CSS is unavailable/turned off then it should display in
        > the default colours of the browser on which it is being viewed.
        > Surely no one is crazy enough to do what you suggest and use half a
        > belt and half a pair of braces?

        I have seen this on several commercial pages, on personal pages it's
        quite common. Another caveat with CSS-only approach is that even if
        you set both bgcolor and text color in <BODY> tag, using background
        pictures in your tables can render the text unreadable.

        > If you want to control both font and background colours (and you
        > certainly do want to set a background colour if you set a font
        colour,
        > for the very reason you state) then SET BOTH OF THEM.

        I do. I also check my pages without CSS and/or JavaScript. Still I
        get caught when IE on Mac fails to display wide background pictures.
        But at least I don't tell people they need Frame-capable browser if
        they have JavaScript turned off.

        I'm not saying that CSS is bad thing, it just doesn't solve all
        problems automatically. If one never checks his pages with anything
        else than IE, she should tell that on the first page so people using
        other browsers can go elsewhere to spend their money.


        Jorma
      • Greg Chapman
        Hi Jorma, ... a ... You re right, of course! My question was somewhat rhetorical! ... Good point. I would always avoid background pictures as results are
        Message 3 of 5 , Sep 18, 2001
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          Hi Jorma,

          > > Surely no one is crazy enough to do what you suggest and use half
          a
          > > belt and half a pair of braces?
          >
          > I have seen this on several commercial pages, on personal pages it's
          > quite common.

          You're right, of course! My question was somewhat rhetorical!

          > Another caveat with CSS-only approach is
          > that even if
          > you set both bgcolor and text color in <BODY> tag, using background
          > pictures in your tables can render the text unreadable.

          Good point. I would always avoid background pictures as results are
          entirely erratic across different browsers! Navigator, I understand.
          restarts a picture from the top left in every cell. Internet Explorer
          normally will flow the picture across all the cells of the table.

          > But at least I don't tell people they need Frame-capable browser if
          > they have JavaScript turned off.

          I came across one of my pages in a search engine the other day. One
          which quotes the first few lines from the page it has indexed. It
          made me realise that the advice usually given to include instructions
          for those who don't have frame aware browsers isn't especially helpful
          in this case. All that someone would discover about my index page,
          apart from its title, is that the site is designed for frame aware
          browsers!!

          > I'm not saying that CSS is bad thing, it just doesn't solve all
          > problems automatically.

          You're right, of course. CSS just replaces one set of problems with
          another. However, in general, I do believe that it is good practice
          to separate the message of the web page from the display instructions.
          CSS does this and has other advantages for site-wide changes to site
          design.

          Greg
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