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Re: [NH] Where is "tidy.exe?"

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  • Brendan Smyth
    Thanks Lotta Appreciate the prompt reply. Cleaned up my Favourites list. Why do you not use tidy.exe? Is it overzealous? Do you use a different one or are
    Message 1 of 22 , Jan 26 10:54 AM
      Thanks Lotta
      Appreciate the prompt reply. Cleaned up my Favourites list.
      Why do you not use tidy.exe? Is it overzealous? Do you use a different
      one or are you perfect?

      Regards Brendan
      >Good luck,
      >Lotta

      Brendan Smyth
      New Brunswick
      Canada
    • Lotta
      Hello Brendan, ... No, I m not perfect. It s just that I don t have exactly those problems or needs that Tidy deals with. I ve heard here on the list and
      Message 2 of 22 , Jan 26 3:25 PM
        Hello Brendan,

        >Why do you not use tidy.exe? Is it overzealous? Do you use a different
        >one or are you perfect?

        No, I'm not perfect. It's just that I don't have exactly those problems or
        needs that Tidy deals with. I've heard here on the list and elsewhere that
        it's good at what it does. I believe it's often used to prettify the code,
        since many find that easier to read. I for some reason don't. I prefer a
        straight left margin and can't find anything if it's not where I put it.
        It's said to be very good at cleaning up the superfluous output from MS
        Word and some WYSIWYG tools.

        What tool is best I believe depends on who you are, what kind of documents
        you deal with and what you want done. I prefer to use a validator and do
        corrections myself. Guess I'm the keep the hands off my code kind of girl.

        Lotta
      • Jody
        Hi Lotta and Brendan, ... You can configure Tidy not to indent Lotta. Some people like the format and some do. II like to use it on some web pages I made
        Message 3 of 22 , Jan 27 12:35 AM
          Hi Lotta and Brendan,

          >> Why do you not use tidy.exe? Is it overzealous? Do you use a
          >> different one or are you perfect?
          >
          >No, I'm not perfect. It's just that I don't have exactly those
          >problems or needs that Tidy deals with. I've heard here on the
          >list and elsewhere that it's good at what it does. I believe it's
          >often used to prettify the code, since many find that easier to
          >read. I for some reason don't. I prefer a straight left margin
          >and can't find anything if it's not where I put it. It's said to
          >be very good at cleaning up the superfluous output from MS Word
          >and some WYSIWYG tools.

          You can configure Tidy not to indent Lotta. Some people like the
          format and some do. II like to use it on some web pages I made
          when learning HTML back in the 14th century. <bg> Really though,
          some of my pages were/are so messed up that they work in any
          browser as is, but once tidy got hold of it they would no longer
          display correctly, so I abandoned the idea of doing my pre-
          browser web pages <g> and just leave them as they are - messed up
          looking source as far as being neatly done, but they display.
          Get a hold of one of Grant's tidy.cfg wizards for NoteTab and
          play around with the settings. I never have tried it on a .doc
          to .htm file before, but I have the need to do about 6 of then so
          I will find out. Sure hope it works, because no matter how much
          somebody might not like the way tidy formats I don't think
          anybody would argue that it does not look 200% better than a MS
          Word formatted page.

          Then again though, you have too remember the Dick Tracey watches
          that you will need a magnifying glass 10 times the size of the
          watch to see the back button in the browser and Tidy or NoteTab's
          tidy version may make conversion for you easier. <bg>

          >What tool is best I believe depends on who you are, what kind of
          >documents you deal with and what you want done. I prefer to use a
          >validator and do corrections myself. Guess I'm the keep the hands
          >off my code kind of girl.

          Tidy tries to do a good job, but it can only do so much.
          Sometimes my pages simply just display worse after using Tidy
          because of the poor format they had to begin with. I'm speaking
          of my very first web pages that I made just learning HTML so a
          validator would fail just bout every line with error or warning
          and Tidy, well, Tidy, like I said, can only do so much. In other
          words, you can't make a New York strip steak out of dog meat. <g>

          Happy HTML'n!
          Jody

          http://www.notetab.net

          The NoteTab and Html List...
          mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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        • Lotta
          Jody, ... Thanks! But doesn t that make the output pretty much the same as the input? Sleep well :-) Lotta
          Message 4 of 22 , Jan 27 3:00 AM
            Jody,

            >You can configure Tidy not to indent Lotta.

            Thanks! But doesn't that make the output pretty much the same as the input?
            <VBG>

            Sleep well :-)
            Lotta
          • Greg Chapman
            Hi Lotta, ... Only if you don t make mistakes and always put summary= attributes in your table tags, close paragraphs and generally make you code W3C
            Message 5 of 22 , Jan 27 4:21 AM
              Hi Lotta,

              > >You can configure Tidy not to indent Lotta.
              >
              > Thanks! But doesn't that make the output pretty much the same as the input?
              > <VBG>

              Only if you don't make mistakes and always put summary="" attributes in your
              table tags, close paragraphs and generally make you code W3C compliant.

              Greg
            • Lotta
              Hello, Sorry Greg, no go. Lotta
              Message 6 of 22 , Jan 27 6:02 AM
                Hello,

                Sorry Greg, no go.

                Lotta
              • Jody
                Hi Lotta, ... Exactly ...but it does correct some errors, give error report (by option of course), and makes some when it thinks it should and I
                Message 7 of 22 , Jan 27 8:49 AM
                  Hi Lotta,

                  >> You can configure Tidy not to indent Lotta.
                  >
                  >Thanks! But doesn't that make the output pretty much the same as
                  >the input? <VBG>

                  Exactly <g> ...but it does correct some errors, give error report
                  (by option of course), and makes some <style> when it thinks it
                  should and I thought it was the indent that you did not like.

                  Greg wrote:
                  > Only if you don't make mistakes and always put summary=""
                  > attributes in your table tags, close paragraphs and generally
                  > make you code W3C compliant.

                  Yeah, I think that is what I was trying to say. <bg>

                  >Sleep well :-)

                  I did, the whole four hours worth. :)

                  Happy HTML'n!
                  Jody

                  http://www.notetab.net

                  The NoteTab and Html List...
                  mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                • Lotta
                  Good morning Jody, Brendan and all, ... But I don t dislike it, I just don t use it as my personal preference, as I said, is to use a validator only. Sorry for
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jan 28 3:40 AM
                    Good morning Jody, Brendan and all,

                    Jody wrote:
                    >Exactly <g> ...but it does correct some errors, give error report
                    >(by option of course), and makes some <style> when it thinks it
                    >should and I thought it was the indent that you did not like.

                    But I don't dislike it, I just don't use it as my personal preference, as I
                    said, is to use a validator only.

                    Sorry for the length of this but I just discovered that Brendan that
                    started this thread is the guy that joined us some weeks ago saying he was
                    new to HTML. Sorry Brendan, I didn't realize that and you deserve a better
                    and clearer answer than you got. New try!

                    There are a lot of HTML checkers out there. Most free, on line or off line,
                    and some paid for. Some good and some bad. Sometimes they are all called
                    "validators" but they can also be divided in "validators" and "lints".

                    A validator does one thing only, checks the HTML against the specification
                    you declare that your document follow (with the DTD tag), making sure the
                    standard is followed and the syntax is correct and points errors and
                    divergences out.
                    A lint also checks the HTML for accuracy but mostly not to the same extent.
                    It adds other useful features, like pointing out things that have bad
                    browser support or may make the page unaccessible for blind users or text
                    readers and other stuff like that.
                    Both kinds are useful and can very well be used together. You can find a
                    short explanation to why they are here:
                    http://www.awpa.asn.au/html/validate.html The links are outdated, but
                    the info still goes.

                    I'm not sure, but I think the only online true validators that are kept
                    updated are w3c's and WDG's. They are in my opinion both very good. w3c
                    tend to use a more technical language that may be hard to follow before you
                    "know it all".
                    http://validator.w3.org/
                    http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/
                    The difference you can read about here:
                    http://www.htmlhelp.com/tools/validator/differences.html

                    A well known accessibility checker (mainly text readers and equipment for
                    the blind) is found here:
                    http://www.cast.org/bobby/

                    If you do a search you will find a lot of link lists to other online
                    checkers. Here is one:
                    http://www.htmlhelp.com/links/validators.htm

                    The two off line software mentions:
                    Dave Ragget's HTML Tidy
                    http://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/ (free)
                    Liam Quinn's ARV
                    http://arealvalidator.com/ (shareware)
                    Both sites have adequate information on what the programs do.

                    Once again, my view is that what you use depends on your needs and how you
                    work and what works for you. Shop around and find out. A warning though,
                    far from all online checkers are good. If you are new you probably have
                    your hands full with getting a basic understanding so I don't think you
                    shall worry about "perfect" just jet. But these tools can all give you some
                    hints.
                    Hope any of this was what you really were asking for!

                    Good error hunting,
                    Lotta
                  • Brendan Smyth
                    Hello Lotta, Thank you for the explanation. I did try wdg s but the result was overpowering. I will check out these others. (Q1) :I have tried to make my
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jan 28 6:39 AM
                      Hello Lotta,
                      Thank you for the explanation. I did try "wdg's" but the result
                      was overpowering.
                      I will check out these others.

                      (Q1) :I have tried to make my photos from my scanner as small as
                      possible by using a low definition (200) and saving as *.jpg. I still have
                      some large graphics that are slow loaders. Is there anything I can do to
                      get them to load quicker.

                      (Q2) Please recommend software for making "Thumbnails" that can be
                      used as a link to the full picture.

                      I am a retired oldie, my brain was in neutral until I started this
                      web page building. One of my worries was to be alone without the help of
                      younger experts. I am so impressed with the response and sharing of this
                      egroup. I am having a ball!!

                      Brendan







                      At 12:40 PM 1/28/2001 +0100, you wrote:
                      >Good morning Jody, Brendan and all,
                      >

                      Brendan Smyth
                      New Brunswick
                      Canada
                    • Don Passenger
                      Q1: I have tried to make my photos from my scanner as small a. there should be two settings...one for the pixel resolution and anything above 72 is generally
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jan 28 10:51 AM
                        Q1: I have tried to make my photos from my scanner as small
                        a. there should be two settings...one for the pixel resolution and anything
                        above 72 is generally wasted, although I generally use 100 or 125; the other
                        is for the size of the output, usually expressed as a percentage of the
                        original.
                        b. a saved jpg can be a different compression ratio's, try a higher
                        compression and see if quality is still acceptable.

                        Q2: a thumbnail program...irfanview is great for this and free...
                        http://www.irfanview.com

                        ---
                        Don Passenger
                        Personal Page: http://www.iserv.net/~dpasseng
                        Court Page: http://www.iserv.net/~dpasseng/grdc
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Brendan Smyth <bsmyth@...>
                        To: <ntb-html@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 9:39 AM
                        Subject: Re: [NH] Where is "tidy.exe?"


                        > Hello Lotta,
                        > Thank you for the explanation. I did try "wdg's" but the result
                        > was overpowering.
                        > I will check out these others.
                        >
                        > (Q1) :I have tried to make my photos from my scanner as small as
                        > possible by using a low definition (200) and saving as *.jpg. I still have
                        > some large graphics that are slow loaders. Is there anything I can do to
                        > get them to load quicker.
                        >
                        > (Q2) Please recommend software for making "Thumbnails" that can
                        be
                        > used as a link to the full picture.
                        >
                        > I am a retired oldie, my brain was in neutral until I started
                        this
                        > web page building. One of my worries was to be alone without the help of
                        > younger experts. I am so impressed with the response and sharing of this
                        > egroup. I am having a ball!!
                        >
                        > Brendan
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > At 12:40 PM 1/28/2001 +0100, you wrote:
                        > >Good morning Jody, Brendan and all,
                        > >
                        >
                        > Brendan Smyth
                        > New Brunswick
                        > Canada
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • Jody
                        Hi Lotta, ... Thanks for all the links and informative post! I use Tidy when I m being lazy. Happy HTML n! Jody http://www.notetab.net The NoteTab and
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jan 28 5:19 PM
                          Hi Lotta,

                          >> Exactly <g> ...but it does correct some errors, give error
                          >> report (by option of course), and makes some <style> when it
                          >> thinks it should and I thought it was the indent that you did
                          >> not like.
                          >
                          >But I don't dislike it, I just don't use it as my personal
                          >preference, as I said, is to use a validator only.

                          Thanks for all the links and informative post! I use Tidy when
                          I'm being lazy. <g>

                          Happy HTML'n!
                          Jody

                          http://www.notetab.net

                          The NoteTab and Html List...
                          mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                        • Greg Chapman
                          Hi Brendan, ... Read the excellent: http://www.scantips.com/ (In particular. go through all relevant sections of Scanning 101 - The Basics which you ll
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jan 29 9:28 AM
                            Hi Brendan,

                            > (Q1) :I have tried to make my photos from my scanner as small as
                            > possible by using a low definition (200) and saving as *.jpg. I still have
                            > some large graphics that are slow loaders. Is there anything I can do to
                            > get them to load quicker.

                            Read the excellent: http://www.scantips.com/ (In particular. go through all
                            relevant sections of "Scanning 101 - The Basics" which you'll find towards the
                            bottom of the page.

                            You'll find that low resolution isn't always the best approach.

                            > (Q2) Please recommend software for making "Thumbnails" that can be
                            > used as a link to the full picture.

                            Any conventional image manipulation software should do this direct from it
                            resize or resample menu option - but see the section on http://www.scantips.com/
                            about it first.

                            In short look at all these pages linked from the above....

                            Video Resolution - How much to scan?

                            Finding the Scaling and Resampling menus

                            Printer Resolution - How much to scan?

                            Descreen to remove Moiré Interference
                            Scanning images in magazines/books/newspapers

                            Interpolated resolution - 2400 dpi?

                            Photo resolution - How much can we scan?

                            Graphic file formats - Which format to use?

                            Dynamic Range - 24 bit or 30 bits?

                            Greg
                            (Another early retiree!)
                          • Greg Chapman
                            ... I have also just been pointed to http://www.xnview.com/. XnView is also free and appears to be at least the equal of IrfanView in terms of facilities and,
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jan 29 9:28 AM
                              > Q2: a thumbnail program...irfanview is great for this and free...
                              > http://www.irfanview.com

                              I have also just been pointed to http://www.xnview.com/. XnView is also free
                              and appears to be at least the equal of IrfanView in terms of facilities and, to
                              my eye, has a prettier interface.

                              Greg
                            • Brendan Smyth
                              Hi Folks, Thanks Don & Rudi for your replies. I am enclosing the reply I received from Irfan of Irfanview to the same question re graphic size. I am a
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jan 29 9:48 AM
                                Hi Folks,
                                Thanks Don & Rudi for your replies.
                                I am enclosing the reply I received from Irfan of "Irfanview" to the same
                                question re graphic size. I am a registered user who did not realise how
                                versatile this software is. Just like NoteTab the more you use it the more
                                you understand it.

                                1) Try with 'image->resize/resample' to make smaller JPGs ;-)
                                2) Start IrfanView and open an image. Press T (file->thumbnails). Now, you
                                will all the images from the current folder as thumbnails ... Now, you can
                                select one or many thumbnails (with CTRL + left mouse) and save all
                                selected thumbs as a HTML page ... (thumbnail menu)

                                Regards Brendan
                                Brendan Smyth
                                New Brunswick
                                Canada
                              • Wayland_B_Fowler@Raytheon.com
                                Don, ... Don, I went to the page above and noticed that, one can download a zipped file. Also, going down the page there are some plug-ins. Do you know if we
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jan 29 10:36 AM
                                  Don,

                                  Don Wrote:
                                  >Q2: a thumbnail program...irfanview is great for this and free...
                                  >http://www.irfanview.com


                                  Don, I went to the page above and noticed that, one can download a zipped
                                  file. Also, going down the page there are some plug-ins. Do you know if
                                  we need to download the plug-ins, as well?

                                  I have an additional question for the group about thumbnails. Does anyone
                                  know if PaintShopPro V.7 will make thumbnails?

                                  Regards,

                                  Wayland Fowler
                                  Software Engineer (and all around nice guy!)
                                  (281) 280-4446
                                • Jody
                                  Hi Wayland, ... Only if you want them. ;) ... You can use Resize to make them. I think that is a batch convertor also, but I never played with it. Happy
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jan 29 11:21 AM
                                    Hi Wayland,

                                    >>Q2: a thumbnail program...irfanview is great for this and free...
                                    >>http://www.irfanview.com
                                    >
                                    >Don, I went to the page above and noticed that, one can download
                                    >a zipped file. Also, going down the page there are some plug-
                                    >ins. Do you know if we need to download the plug-ins, as well?

                                    Only if you want them. ;)

                                    >I have an additional question for the group about thumbnails.
                                    >Does anyone know if PaintShopPro V.7 will make thumbnails?

                                    You can use Resize to make them. I think that is a batch convertor
                                    also, but I never played with it.





                                    Happy HTML'n!
                                    Jody

                                    http://www.notetab.net

                                    The NoteTab and Html List...
                                    mailto:Ntb-html-Subscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                                  • Lloyd
                                    Hi Wayland, I don t see any way to make a thumbnail but you can resize to 18 x whatever to retain the ration or 18 x 18 if the aspic ratio need not be
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jan 29 12:40 PM
                                      Hi Wayland,

                                      I don't see any way to make a thumbnail but you can resize to 18 x whatever
                                      to retain the ration or 18 x 18 if the aspic ratio need not be maintained.

                                      Lloyd
                                      ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                      >Don,
                                      >I have an additional question for the group about thumbnails. Does anyone
                                      >know if PaintShopPro V.7 will make thumbnails?
                                      >
                                      >Regards,
                                      >
                                      >Wayland Fowler
                                      >Software Engineer (and all around nice guy!)
                                      >(281) 280-4446
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • belliott@conknet.com
                                      Wayland, You asked if Paint Shlop Pro 7 will make thumbnails. As Jody replied, yes it will. It does it easily and well, although it doesn t use the term
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jan 30 6:45 AM
                                        Wayland,

                                        You asked if Paint Shlop Pro 7 will make thumbnails. As Jody replied,
                                        yes it will. It does it easily and well, although it doesn't use the
                                        term "thumbnails" for the process; but thumbnails are simply small
                                        versions of larger images. Here is the way I do it.

                                        Load Paint Shop Pro
                                        Press Ctrl+B to open the program's thumbnail browser
                                        Navigate to the folder containing the desired image
                                        Double click the desired image to open it
                                        Press Shift+S to bring up the Resize box
                                        Choose "Pixel size" or "Percentage of original"
                                        I use "Pixel size" and specify 100 or 150 width
                                        Make sure "Maintain aspect ration" is checked (for normal results)
                                        Press F12 and save the resized image with a different name

                                        I hope this helps.

                                        Bruce Elliott
                                      • Eric G.V. Fookes
                                        Hi everyone, I ve found an excellent Freeware program for making thumbnails. It s called All Thumbs. You ll find it at the following URL:
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jan 30 10:21 AM
                                          Hi everyone,

                                          I've found an excellent Freeware program for making thumbnails. It's called
                                          All Thumbs. You'll find it at the following URL:

                                          http://slideshow-refinery.com/

                                          I've used it to create the thumbnails on my Portfolio and Screensaver pages:

                                          http://www.fookes.com/portfolio/

                                          Regards,
                                          Eric G.V. Fookes
                                          Author of NoteTab, Mailbag Assistant, and Album Express
                                          http://www.fookes.com/ and http://www.notetab.com/







                                          ...
                                        • thefrank
                                          Hello All, I have used irfanview. Nice utility, fairly robust for features. A while back I discovered XnView. Also free, many export filters e.g. PNG GIF JPG
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jan 31 11:05 PM
                                            Hello All,

                                            I have used irfanview. Nice utility, fairly robust for features.

                                            A while back I discovered XnView. Also free, many export filters e.g.
                                            PNG GIF JPG BMP WMF many others. What I really find useful is the
                                            batch conversion feature to convert filetypes from say, BMP to GIF.

                                            The other feature I really needed that my version of Irfan would not
                                            easily accomplish is cropping. With XnView you just drag a box and
                                            then pull the handles, similar to any good graphics app. The
                                            difference is the status bar which gives exact px for cropped size so
                                            you know what your getting before you hit the button.

                                            Also has a color saturation conversion to specify your palatte depth.

                                            Between XnView and Xara ($80US for transparent channel manipulation,
                                            built-in browser previews with load times per modem speeds, and the
                                            best anti-aliasing I've ever found, bar none) anything for the web is
                                            quickly accomplished.

                                            regards,

                                            tf
                                          • Greg Chapman
                                            ... I confirm that VnView appears to be a very nice program. (Thanks for the hint, Frank!) Amongst it s many other features is automatic generation of an HTML
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Feb 2, 2001
                                              > I have used irfanview. Nice utility, fairly robust for features.
                                              >
                                              > A while back I discovered XnView. Also free, many export filters e.g.
                                              > PNG GIF JPG BMP WMF many others. What I really find useful is the
                                              > batch conversion feature to convert filetypes from say, BMP to GIF.

                                              I confirm that VnView appears to be a very nice program. (Thanks for the hint,
                                              Frank!)

                                              Amongst it's many other features is automatic generation of an HTML thumbnails
                                              page, where you can define the number of rows/columns of thumbnails to appear,
                                              their size, file format (GIF, JPG or whatever) and even do batch format
                                              conversion of the full size images, which will all be placed in a user defined
                                              folder.

                                              It's only disadvantage is a total lack of documentation, so it can take a bit of
                                              finding your way around. There does appear to be a newsgroup
                                              news://news.zoo-logique.org/xnview - though it could be all in French, the first
                                              language of the author.

                                              It's home web site is also a bit confusing as there are so many
                                              language/platform versions available. (http://www.xnview.com/)

                                              But if you can get through all that and it is well worth it!

                                              Greg
                                            • Greg Chapman
                                              Hi Gang, Earlier I said... ... A single post to the newsgroup has produced this response. That alone is enough to convince me that my allegiance to Irfanview
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Feb 5, 2001
                                                Hi Gang,


                                                Earlier I said...

                                                > I confirm that XnView appears to be a very nice program. (Thanks for the hint,
                                                > Frank!)

                                                > There does appear to be a newsgroup
                                                > news://news.zoo-logique.org/xnview - though it could be all in
                                                > French, the first language of the author.

                                                A single post to the newsgroup has produced this response. That alone is enough
                                                to convince me that my allegiance to Irfanview may change!

                                                ========================
                                                Hello,

                                                2 NEW newsgroup :
                                                * news://news.zoo-logique.org/xnview.english for english user
                                                * news://news.zoo-logique.org/xnview.dev for GFL SDK developer

                                                news://news.zoo-logique.org/xnview is now only for french users !

                                                Regards. Pierre.
                                                ========================

                                                Greg
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