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RE: [NH] Dumb question time again

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  • Wayland_B_Fowler@Raytheon.com
    ... extension, I just didn t know for sure which ones. Thanks for adding to my knowledge Bill. Actually the use of .htm had to do with Win3.x. Since Win3.x
    Message 1 of 15 , Jan 4, 2001
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      >Cool! Now I know! I knew that some Unix web servers accepted the .htm
      extension, I just didn't know for sure which ones. Thanks for adding to my
      knowledge Bill.


      Actually the use of ".htm" had to do with Win3.x. Since Win3.x was/is not
      a true operating system, it rode piggyback on DOS. And, since DOS only
      allowed three character extensions it was necessary for HTML browsers to
      recognize both ".htm" and ".html". Unix, itself, does not care about the
      extension.

      Regards,

      Wayland Fowler
      Software Engineer (and all around nice guy!)
      (281) 280-4446
    • Don Passenger
      Usually the server is set to default to a particular file in each directory, and absent the existance of that file will display the file and directory
      Message 2 of 15 , Jan 4, 2001
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        Usually the server is set to default to a particular file in each directory,
        and absent the existance of that file will display the file and directory
        structure.

        On many servers, the default file that is required is index.html or
        default.html or home.html. Often they will not read index.htm, etc., as the
        default file to display and will instead show the directory/file structure.

        All servers I have ever worked on will take .htm or .shtml or .html or
        xhtml files and display them fine, but they may not permit those as the
        default file. Some now allow index.htm or index.shtml to be the default
        file, but historically it was only index.html.

        ---
        Don Passenger
        Personal Page: http://www.iserv.net/~dpasseng
        Court Page: http://www.iserv.net/~dpasseng/grdc
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <Wayland_B_Fowler@...>
        To: <ntb-html@egroups.com>
        Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 3:19 PM
        Subject: RE: [NH] Dumb question time again


        > >Cool! Now I know! I knew that some Unix web servers accepted the .htm
        > extension, I just didn't know for sure which ones. Thanks for adding to my
        > knowledge Bill.
        >
        >
        > Actually the use of ".htm" had to do with Win3.x. Since Win3.x was/is not
        > a true operating system, it rode piggyback on DOS. And, since DOS only
        > allowed three character extensions it was necessary for HTML browsers to
        > recognize both ".htm" and ".html". Unix, itself, does not care about the
        > extension.
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Wayland Fowler
        > Software Engineer (and all around nice guy!)
        > (281) 280-4446
        >
        >
        >
        >
      • Jim Beidle
        So, if I understand correctly Wayland, the limitations were because of web servers running on DOS or older windows (e.g., NT 3.51) or some other OS. Or
        Message 3 of 15 , Jan 4, 2001
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          So, if I understand correctly Wayland, the limitations were because of web
          servers running on DOS or older windows (e.g., NT 3.51) or some other OS. Or
          software ported to Unix from those platforms? In other words, why do some
          web servers get cranky about the extensions and others don't, when they're
          running on Unix?

          Jim

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Wayland_B_Fowler@...
          [mailto:Wayland_B_Fowler@...]
          Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 12:20 PM
          To: ntb-html@egroups.com
          Subject: RE: [NH] Dumb question time again


          >Cool! Now I know! I knew that some Unix web servers accepted the .htm
          extension, I just didn't know for sure which ones. Thanks for adding to my
          knowledge Bill.


          Actually the use of ".htm" had to do with Win3.x. Since Win3.x was/is not
          a true operating system, it rode piggyback on DOS. And, since DOS only
          allowed three character extensions it was necessary for HTML browsers to
          recognize both ".htm" and ".html". Unix, itself, does not care about the
          extension.

          Regards,

          Wayland Fowler
          Software Engineer (and all around nice guy!)
          (281) 280-4446
        • Larry Hamilton
          Jody, et al, From what I understand, the web server (in most cases Apache), has a configuration file (sort of like an .ini) that determines what extensions it
          Message 4 of 15 , Jan 4, 2001
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            Jody, et al,

            From what I understand, the web server (in most cases Apache), has a
            configuration file (sort of like an .ini) that determines what extensions
            it will accept (htm/html or index.htm*/default.htm* as the default page on
            a web site). The same is true of PHP, which is a server-side script
            language, similar in purpose to ASP. With PHP, you can edit its
            configuration file to use whatever extension you desire, instead of the
            .php default. So if you really wanted to, you could use you name, or
            organizations initials, etc. Of course, you have to have access to the
            configuration files on your web host's server to do this, most do not allow
            this, due to the chaos it could cause.

            I have Apache, and PHP on my PC so I can test scripts before I upload them.
            Both are free downloads from their respective homepages:

            apache.org and php.org (I think, a search on Google - www.google.com will
            tell for sure!)

            At 01:30 PM 01/04/2001 -0600, you wrote:
            >That is good to know. Perhaps UNIX will come around someday. I
            >knew UNIX was case sensitive, but not about the .html, else I
            >would not have recently redo my whole NoteTab site to .htm OH
            >well, not changing it back now. :) I just thought that .htm was
            >less to type when doing manual and it made more sense to me
            >because most the rest of HTML files are three letter extensions,
            >at least the ones I use.

            Larry Hamilton, Jr.
            lm_hamilton@...
            http://notlimah.tripod.com/
            Hamilton National Genealogical Society, Inc.
            http://www.hamiltongensociety.org/
          • Wayland_B_Fowler@Raytheon.com
            Jim wrote: So, if I understand correctly Wayland, the limitations were because of web servers running on DOS or older windows (e.g., NT 3.51) or some other OS.
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 4, 2001
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              Jim wrote:
              So, if I understand correctly Wayland, the limitations were because of web
              servers running on DOS or older windows (e.g., NT 3.51) or some other OS.
              Or
              software ported to Unix from those platforms? In other words, why do some
              web servers get cranky about the extensions and others don't, when they're
              running on Unix?

              Jim,
              I wish I could say I was a real expert on this, but that would be
              stretching things, more than just a little. With regard to how these OSs
              deal with files, DOS and Win3.x (and I think 95, 98) are extension
              dependent whereas Unix is attribute dependent. That is, unlike Unix, DOS
              (and its Windows pals) do not know what to do with most files without its
              extension. Same goes for its server software, for example Apache. On
              newer versions of Windows the mime settings can be set to recognize either
              .htm or .html (or if someone is daring enough, any other extension).
              Chances are that, on the newer versions, it already defaults to both. The
              older Windows versions (3.x) would not allow more than the three character
              extension. As far as software ported to unix is concerned, most of its
              servers should be able to handle either extension, if it doesn't then
              perhaps the mime settings (or perhaps a .ini file) for the server software
              should be set to handle both. I think this is correct, if it is not quite
              right, I apologize.

              Harvey wrote:
              Long filenames aside, wouldn't it be difficult to run about any
              version of Windows without booting into some sort of DOS system
              first?

              Harvey,
              Yes, at least versions 3.x, 95, and 98. For version 2000 and for NT, I am
              not sure.

              Regards,

              Wayland Fowler
              Software Engineer (and all around nice guy!)
              (281) 280-4446
            • Jim Beidle
              Thanks for the explanation, Wayland. What you re saying makes sense, along with what I already knew and what Don related in his posting. As to WinNT 4.0 and
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 4, 2001
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                Thanks for the explanation, Wayland. What you're saying makes sense, along
                with what I already knew and what Don related in his posting.

                As to WinNT 4.0 and Win2K, they were developed independently from DOS as
                true 32 bit Operating systems. While they have a "command line" mode that
                emulates DOS in some ways, it isn't DOS and was built from scratch. NT4 goes
                through a non-gui phase during start up as it loads various drivers, but
                this is not directly accessible by "Joe User". That's part of what makes NT
                more secure than its DOS/WIN cousins. A good reference on NT4 structure is
                the _Windows NT Workstation Resource Kit_; Another is _Running Windows NT
                Workstation 4.0_. NoteTab Pro works great on NT, BTW because Eric built it
                as a true 32-bit application. The 16-bit versions of NoteTab or any
                application may periodically fail since they may make DOS calls that aren't
                part of the NT structure. Hope all that helps.. . .

                Jim

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Wayland_B_Fowler@...
                [mailto:Wayland_B_Fowler@...]
                Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2001 4:04 PM
                To: ntb-html@egroups.com
                Subject: RE: [NH] Dumb question time again


                Jim wrote:
                So, if I understand correctly Wayland, the limitations were because of web
                servers running on DOS or older windows (e.g., NT 3.51) or some other OS.
                Or
                software ported to Unix from those platforms? In other words, why do some
                web servers get cranky about the extensions and others don't, when they're
                running on Unix?

                Jim,
                I wish I could say I was a real expert on this, but that would be
                stretching things, more than just a little. With regard to how these OSs
                deal with files, DOS and Win3.x (and I think 95, 98) are extension
                dependent whereas Unix is attribute dependent. That is, unlike Unix, DOS
                (and its Windows pals) do not know what to do with most files without its
                extension. Same goes for its server software, for example Apache. On
                newer versions of Windows the mime settings can be set to recognize either
                .htm or .html (or if someone is daring enough, any other extension).
                Chances are that, on the newer versions, it already defaults to both. The
                older Windows versions (3.x) would not allow more than the three character
                extension. As far as software ported to unix is concerned, most of its
                servers should be able to handle either extension, if it doesn't then
                perhaps the mime settings (or perhaps a .ini file) for the server software
                should be set to handle both. I think this is correct, if it is not quite
                right, I apologize.

                Harvey wrote:
                Long filenames aside, wouldn't it be difficult to run about any
                version of Windows without booting into some sort of DOS system
                first?

                Harvey,
                Yes, at least versions 3.x, 95, and 98. For version 2000 and for NT, I am
                not sure.

                Regards,

                Wayland Fowler
                Software Engineer (and all around nice guy!)
                (281) 280-4446
              • Toby Scott
                Larry and all, I think all servers can be configured to handle any extension you care to add -- as long as you are the system administrator. In NT and Win2000,
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 8, 2001
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                  Larry and all,

                  I think all servers can be configured to handle any extension you care to
                  add -- as long as you are the system administrator.

                  In NT and Win2000, I can add as many default file name and extensions for
                  the initial page as I want. If that isn't clear, my default extensions on
                  the server I administer are:

                  index.htm
                  index.html
                  index.cfm
                  default.htm
                  default.html

                  If there is an index.htm file in the default directory for a URL, it is
                  automatically displayed when someone types www.xyz.com (or whatever). If
                  there is no index.htm then index.html will display, etc.

                  These are fairly easily configured, but if you are an administrator and
                  start setting each URL differently, doing tech support when a client has a
                  problem is murder. Therefore, most administrators attempt to keep a fairly
                  uniform list. If a customer asks for the default to be set to index.shtml
                  for example, I will add it after my standard 5.

                  For those of you who wonder, .cfm is Cold Fusion, which is what I mainly
                  use.

                  Toby Scott
                  Ventura County Computers
                  2175 Goodyear Avenue
                  Suite 117
                  Ventura, CA 93003

                  (805) 289-3960
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