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[NH] Re: To capitalise or not to...

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  • Nicole Simon
    ... My main points to criticize: - Clips don t use my marked text - clips add parts of the tags which are not filed if I want no alignment, there should be no
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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      Glenn Dixon wrote:
      > Personally, I have just recently gone through and deleted several libraries
      > that I was not using due to duplications or what I call 'poor' clips.

      My main points to criticize:

      - Clips don't use my marked text
      - clips add parts of the tags which are not filed
      if I want no alignment, there should be no align="" in the result.
      if empty, it should be left out
      - inconsistent namening.
      I expect Bold to be under Bold and not 'mark text bold'
      if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
      pressing the key b.
      - Mixing HTML-Basics with Java/Javascript/ASP and Active X.
      If I want HTML.clbs, I want HTML-

      Most of the time I use Leanhtml (very nice structured) and Html extreme.

      Nicole


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    • Glenn Dixon
      um, to more specifically answer your question, I do not believe that capitalization matters in HTML tags, but in certain instances the ( ) quote marks do
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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        um, to more specifically answer your question, I do not believe that
        capitalization matters in HTML tags, but in certain instances the (") quote
        marks do indeed matter.....

        >Hello Everyone
        > - and thanks very much to Jody for setting up this group.
        >
        >One thing that bothers me (only a little) is how inconsistent the Note Tab
        Libraries are. Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers
        or values may be in quotes, or not. What is the wisdom on this? Does it
        really matter if we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in HTML? And
        probably not a viable thought: Is there a case for asking Notetabbers as a
        group to decide on a format?
        >
        >Best wishes
        >Chris
        >
        >
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      • Glenn Dixon
        Hi Nicole! :o) ... I agree! ... wow, I didn t realize this was a clip feature! What version added this capability? ... hmmm.......I don t think I have seen
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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          Hi Nicole! :o)

          >My main points to criticize:
          >
          >- Clips don't use my marked text
          >- clips add parts of the tags which are not filed
          > if I want no alignment, there should be no align="" in the result.
          > if empty, it should be left out

          I agree!

          >- inconsistent namening.
          > I expect Bold to be under Bold and not 'mark text bold'
          > if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
          > pressing the key b.

          wow, I didn't realize this was a clip feature! What version added this
          capability?

          >Most of the time I use Leanhtml (very nice structured) and Html extreme.

          hmmm.......I don't think I have seen those.......looks like I need to visit
          the Libraries web page again!

          Glenn Dixon
          glenn@...
          http://thedixons.net



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        • Raymond Fitzgerald
          Hi Glenn, ... The editor clipbook was introduced with v2.0 in Jan 97 and the in-context clipbook, which also auto-scrolls, came out in Jun 97 with v3.0. I
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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            Hi Glenn,

            >> if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
            >> pressing the key b.
            >
            >wow, I didn't realize this was a clip feature! What version added this
            >capability?

            The editor clipbook was introduced with v2.0 in Jan '97 and the in-context
            clipbook, which also auto-scrolls, came out in Jun '97 with v3.0. I *think*
            these components had the auto-scrolling feature from the beginning.

            Cheers,
            Ray

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          • Jody
            Hi Ray, Glenn, and Ni , ... I m sure Ni will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe she was talking about jumping around in Clipbooks. If the clipbook is
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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              Hi Ray, Glenn, and Ni',

              >>> if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
              >>> pressing the key b.

              > I *think* these components had the auto-scrolling feature from
              > the beginning.

              I'm sure Ni' will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe she was
              talking about jumping around in Clipbooks. If the clipbook is
              focused you can press the start of a letter and the focus will
              move to the next header with that letter. It is unlike the
              dialogs and the Library window though that have the feature to
              find the second letter after the first is typed. Hmmm? Having a
              hard time getting that out. If "b" is pressed the clip Bold will
              be focused if next in line. However, if "o" is pressed would
              find Open, and not stay on Bold. It does not use look ahead ...
              whatever in other words.

              You can use that in Clips as well, something like:

              ^!Keyboard Shift+F4 Shift+F4 Down Down b

              I use numbers to jump from the top of a number of my Libraries to
              the section I want and have a Jump to Top clip with the
              corresponding number in front. I saves me a lot of time.

              ^!KeyBoard Shift+F4 Shift+F4 Shift+End 3
              ...
              3 Jump to Top
              H=; htm to otl
              ...

              Bye for now,
              Jody Adair
              Prov. 3:5-7; 4:23

              http://www.sureword.com/sojourner
              http://www.sureword.com/kjb1611
              http://www.sureword.com/notetab

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            • Nicole Simon
              ... Ack. Not the one you get when you ve pressed esc. ... Ack. But if you have these four entries: Bold Better Blue Very blue Better go where no man has gone
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                Jody wrote:
                > I'm sure Ni' will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe she was
                > talking about jumping around in Clipbooks.

                Ack. Not the one you get when you've pressed esc.

                > hard time getting that out. If "b" is pressed the clip Bold will
                > be focused if next in line. However, if "o" is pressed would
                > find Open, and not stay on Bold.

                Ack. But if you have these four entries:
                Bold
                Better Blue
                Very blue
                Better go where no man has gone before..

                Activating the clb via click into the clbwindows and pressing b three times
                lets you get to 'Better go where no man has gone before..'

                So I espect 'comment' to be reachable through pressing c several times an I
                like the T to get to the table things.

                Nicole

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              • Jody
                Hi Nicole ... All your post was true and I like my tags upper too. I use to use lower, but switched about a year ago, hence another reason for some of my
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                  Hi Nicole

                  > I like the T to get to the table things.

                  All your post was true and I like my tags upper too. I use to
                  use lower, but switched about a year ago, hence another reason
                  for some of my older ones still having lower. I have been
                  changing them on the fly as I run into them 'cause I'm too lazy
                  to find the clip I have around somewhere for it in storage.

                  Yeah, I know I could do a S&R on the tags pretty quick and be
                  done with it... time............ :(

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                • Grey Cat
                  ... From: Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers or values may be in quotes, or not. What is the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: <ChrisPye@...>
                    Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers or values may
                    be in quotes, or not. What is the wisdom on this? Does it really matter if
                    we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in HTML?

                    As I understand it, it does not matter whether tags are capitolized or not.
                    Some of us learned one way, some the other. My thinking is that caps make it
                    easier to sort the tags out of the text on the page, but I realize that it's
                    just my personal choice.

                    Quotation marks are an entirely different question and *YES* it is extremely
                    important that variables be in quotes for those tags which require quotes!
                    Without the quotation marks, the tag option will not occur! I'm afraid that
                    the reason that the quote requirement differs from one tag to another is the
                    fault of HTML and browser designers/programmers!

                    And probably not a viable thought: Is there a case for asking Notetabbers as
                    a group to decide on a format?
                    >

                    Several of the HTML libraries are available with either caps or not. What
                    *I* like most about NTP is that it doesn't *tell* me how I should enter my
                    tags, it just does them the way I choose! I think it would be absolutely
                    terrible for us to "get together and decide" and then more or less force
                    everyone to go along with it.

                    I believe you can even edit tags in your favorite library if you want to
                    change case!

                    Hey! just try shouting at FrontPage over how it chooses to enter tags!!!

                    Cat


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                  • Glenn Dixon
                    well, I guess I m just very unobservant! I ve had NoteTab since it was a $10 piece of shareware ... version 1 something I think......I just never tried the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                      well, I guess I'm just very unobservant! I've had NoteTab since it was a
                      $10 piece of shareware ... version 1 something I think......I just never
                      tried the mnemonic jump thing on any clip view window before.....

                      one question.....if I am typing in a document window, what's the fastest way
                      to shift the focus back to the clip window so I can type 'b' and move right
                      to Bold? Is there a keystroke combination for this?

                      >Hi Glenn,
                      >
                      >>> if it is named bold, I can jump quickly to this via
                      >>> pressing the key b.
                      >>
                      >>wow, I didn't realize this was a clip feature! What version added this
                      >>capability?
                      >
                      >The editor clipbook was introduced with v2.0 in Jan '97 and the in-context
                      >clipbook, which also auto-scrolls, came out in Jun '97 with v3.0. I *think*
                      >these components had the auto-scrolling feature from the beginning.
                      >
                      >Cheers,
                      >Ray
                      >
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                    • Glenn Dixon
                      ... FrontPage???.......uh-oh, don t get me started!! *LOL* Just for kicks, I ll give an example of how I want HTML tags to pop up in NoteTab clips. For
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                        <snip>

                        >I believe you can even edit tags in your favorite library if you want to
                        >change case!
                        >
                        >Hey! just try shouting at FrontPage over how it chooses to enter tags!!!
                        >
                        >Cat

                        FrontPage???.......uh-oh, don't get me started!! *LOL*

                        Just for kicks, I'll give an example of how I want HTML tags to pop up in
                        NoteTab clips. For instance, if I want to insert an image into an HTML page
                        I want the clip to prompt me for file name, Height and/or Width, Alt=,
                        border, etc. Of course, we each have our own preferences so I doubt there
                        could ever be a 'standard' NoteTab clip structure or syntax.....


                        Glenn Dixon
                        glenn@...
                        http://thedixons.net



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                      • Raymond Fitzgerald
                        Hi Glenn, ... way ... Try Shift+F4 to switch to the clipbook window (and Ctrl+G to switch back to the document). But it may be easier and faster to use the
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                          Hi Glenn,

                          >one question.....if I am typing in a document window, what's the fastest
                          way
                          >to shift the focus back to the clip window so I can type 'b' and move right
                          >to Bold? Is there a keystroke combination for this?

                          Try Shift+F4 to switch to the clipbook window (and Ctrl+G to switch back to
                          the document). But it may be easier and faster to use the in-context
                          clipbook (ESC). That way you never leave your document. But autoscroll works
                          a little differently. The clipbook window understands just the first letter
                          you key, so, for example, typing "bb" would jump you from "bold" to "break"
                          and then typing "a" will take you to "anchor." The in-context clipbook
                          reads every letter you type to find just one clip. So "b" for "bold, "br"
                          will take you to "break," and "bb" won't do anything.

                          Cheers,
                          Ray

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                        • Raymond Fitzgerald
                          Hi all, ... HTML? Personally, I don t quote attribute values when it s not mandatory because hitting that quote key is too much work and it adds to the file
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                            Hi all,

                            Chris wrote:
                            >Does it really matter if we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in
                            HTML?

                            Personally, I don't quote attribute values when it's not mandatory because
                            hitting that quote key is too much work and it adds to the file size. I
                            follow the basic rule of thumb of all numbers (width=600) or all letters
                            (valign=top) OK to not quote. But quote mixed (size="+1",
                            bgcolor="#000000").

                            This is from the W3C's HTML 4.0 specs
                            (http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/html40.txt):

                            In certain cases, authors may specify the value of an attribute without any
                            quotation marks. The attribute value may only contain letters (a-z and A-Z),
                            digits (0-9), hyphens (ASCII decimal 45), and periods (ASCII decimal 46). We
                            recommend using quotation marks even when it is possible to eliminate them.
                            Attribute names are always case-insensitive. Attribute values are generally
                            case-insensitive. The definition of each attribute in the reference manual
                            indicates whether its value is case-insensitive.
                            Cheers,
                            Ray Fitz

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                          • Kay Roath
                            06/21/1999 9:02 AM Glenn Dixon wrote ... Besides jumping to thr clip area or using In-Context or F2, there s now the HTML-ar Library. To get inserted
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                              06/21/1999 9:02 AM Glenn Dixon wrote
                              > one question.....if I am typing in a document window, what's the fastest way
                              > to shift the focus back to the clip window so I can type 'b' and move right
                              > to Bold? Is there a keystroke combination for this?

                              Besides jumping to thr clip area or using In-Context or F2,
                              there's now the HTML-ar Library. To get <b></b> inserted
                              into the document, you would type <b followed by a space
                              (check the About clip for other keys that work also). If
                              you have text that you want surrounded by <b></b>,
                              highlight the text and press Escape then <b then Enter.

                              Of course, you need to have auto replace turned on for
                              things to work as I've described in my mostly lower case
                              way:)

                              --- Grandma Kay ---
                              Introduction to NoteTab Clip Programming
                              http://notetab.kay.net



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                            • Rod Davies
                              I feel Clip libraries are best seen as samples or examples . They are offered to the Note Tab community as a way for sharing what has proved useful to an
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jun 21, 1999
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                                I feel Clip libraries are best seen as "samples" or "examples". They are
                                offered to the Note Tab community as a way for sharing what has proved
                                useful to an individual, (and free of charge too!). Therefore the
                                inconsistency.. but when you think about it, consistency is not what clips
                                are about really... and the USP of Note Tab is that you can customise it to
                                work the way you want, for a trade off in learning curves....

                                The key is to put all the clips you feel are useful for you in your own
                                personal library(ies), edit them if necessary, and away you go... My tip is
                                to choose an existing library which is close to what you want, review and
                                edit if necessary each clip, and then copy clips you like from other
                                libraries into it, again editing as you go, It could take as little as 30
                                minutes to an afternoon.... It takes a small investment of time for a
                                highly personal and customised solution.

                                I am forever grateful to those who upload their clip libraries as I didn't
                                have to start from scratch. But it would be almost impossible for someone's
                                customised solution to match exactly another person's needs.

                                Changing all tags in a clip library to upper or lower case is a 2 minute
                                job, I am sure, once you know...

                                And I'm pretty sure there is a menu item or clip which does it
                                automatically. ..Though I'm not sure where it is (:-)!

                                But I guess my main point is that Clips are not part of NT per se but like
                                add-ons or "macro's" which extend functionality and customization.





                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: <ChrisPye@...>
                                To: <ntb-html@...>
                                Sent: Monday, June 21, 1999 8:23 PM
                                Subject: [NH] To capitalise or not to...


                                > Hello Everyone
                                > - and thanks very much to Jody for setting up this group.
                                >
                                > One thing that bothers me (only a little) is how inconsistent the Note Tab
                                Libraries are. Sometimes the HTML tags are capitals, sometimes not, numbers
                                or values may be in quotes, or not. What is the wisdom on this? Does it
                                really matter if we capitalise or leave out the quote marks (") in HTML? And
                                probably not a viable thought: Is there a case for asking Notetabbers as a
                                group to decide on a format?
                                >
                                > Best wishes
                                > Chris
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                > eGroups Spotlight:
                                > "Lightning Strike Survivor List" - on-line support group for lightning
                                strike
                                > survivors and their families. http://clickhere.egroups.com/click/111
                                >
                                >
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                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


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                              • Nicole Simon
                                Rod Davies wrote: [Rod, please don t put a fullqoute after your message] ... JAp. But it s nice if you give the author of the clip a tip what you have missed
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jun 23, 1999
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                                  Rod Davies wrote:
                                  [Rod, please don't put a fullqoute after your message]

                                  > The key is to put all the clips you feel are useful for you in your own
                                  > personal library(ies), edit them if necessary, and away you go...


                                  JAp. But it's nice if you give the author of the clip a tip what you have
                                  missed and what you would have prefered. This way, the author can decide
                                  wether to take this suggestion into the library or not.

                                  Why should you do so?
                                  Because the next time a new version of your best liked library comes out,
                                  you have to do your changes again. And again.

                                  > But I guess my main point is that Clips are not part of NT per se but like
                                  > add-ons or "macro's" which extend functionality and customization.

                                  Oh, there are clips - but you can't include all cliplibraries which are
                                  available on the website. :o)
                                  Nicole

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